A question for PC Gamers. Why all the hostility towards console gamers/gaming?

Atmos Duality

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Oh boy, another PC vs Console or "PC gamers are elitist" topic in sheep's clothing.

As for how it happened, mainstream publishers favored Consoles heavily over PC as their primary market for years, leading to a slight disparity between the PC version and console versions of multiplatform games. (they favored consoles because it was the "safe" option compared to PC, and no, I don't just mean lower piracy rates)

Some people took exception to that and overreacted, second wave responders retorted with an "elitist" title for PC gamers, Yahtzee makes a joke about this trend that people are still mindlessly parroting to this day.
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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There's reasonably little actual hostility on these forums at least. Most of it is self-referential ironic humour.

That said, they get blamed for most of the piracy, they get shitty ports more often than consoles, and as technology advances at faster rates, I assume the 'consoles are holding back games because of their physical limitations' argument will become more valid.
 

Ihateregistering1

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A lot of the hostility is sort of joking/not really serious.

That being said, I've been a big PC gamer and console gamer for years, and, to some degree, I can kind of understand why a lot of PC Gamers feel like old-school, complex PC games are being phased out in favor of more action-packed and less cerebral games that sell better on consoles, and then they just do a quick port to PC.

Because of that, I think a lot of PC gamers blame consoles for great IPs such as 'Syndicate' being turned from a strategy game into a FPS, and the same thing happening with "X-Com: The Bureau" (some hardcore enthusiasts were also turned off by a lot of the simplifying that took place in "X-Com: Enemy Unknown"). I know some were also mad at them turning "Dragon Age 2" into a much more action-oriented game than the original Dragon Age (which was supposed to be something of a revitalization of the 'Baldur's Gate' type of RPG). Whether justified or not, I think a lot of PC Gamers blame console gamers for these sorts of things happening.

Now personally, I think a lot of this is baloney. If you look on Steam there are tons of hyper-complex, large scale strategy games available for relatively cheap (since these games rarely rely on lots of flashy graphics) such as 'Endless Space', 'World of Tanks', 'Crusader Kings 2', 'Dominions 3', and the "Total War' games continue to get (in my opinion) better.
 

ForumSafari

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ParsonOSX said:
I have seen several comments around how PC is the "Greatest gaming device" and how several PC gamers consider themselves to be "elites"
Most of those are tongue in cheek but the PC does offer quite a few advantages for not a huge difference in price. There's a difference between saying that the device is better and that the person using the device is better, for one thing everyone with a console could go out and buy a PC if they really wanted to. Most of the actual hostility is due to...

or those on console calling them "elitist".
This. I've seen about twenty times more PC gamers being called elitist than I have PC gamers being elitist. Naturally when the PC gamers are being blamed for an attitude they by and large don't have, being intentionally teased about their choice of money sink and are having petitions like

https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/rockstar-games-dont-make-a-pc-version-of-gta-v#share

and you can start to see why maybe some people get a bit prickly.
 

Joccaren

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Oh god, why did a Objective/Subjective argument pop up -.-

Lets settle this here. When you say 'Good', 'Bad', 'Better', 'Worse' you are no longer talking objectively. Full stop.
"The PC has better hardware" is not an objective statement. You have not qualified 'Better'. The PC has more advanced hardware? Sure. Stronger hardware? Sure. Hardware with greater technical capabilities? Sure. 'Better' hardware? Define better.

An example. Murder is not, objectively, a bad thing. It is a thing. That is all that you can objectively say about it; Murder is the act of taking another person's life. It is not objectively bad. Welcome to nihilism. Now, we all understand murder as bad as that is our subjective moral code, and judged by our moral code we can say murder is bad, however that is not an objective statement. The only objective statement that can be made along those lines is 'Murder is considered an evil act by the moral code in question'.

Continuing from this, we can therefore not call either the PC or console objectively better. We can state facts about that, and how a majority might perceive those facts, but there is no objective measure here. A PC has more options for peripherals, a far larger library of games, often cheaper games, more powerful hardware and several exclusive genres, however that does not make it 'Better' objectively. It means, objectively, it has those qualities. Subjectively you can perceive those qualities to be important or unimportant dependant on who is judging. This is, conveniently enough, why you cannot make an objective statement about these sorts of things; because people's opinions of what constitutes 'better' differ, and hence so does what is 'better'.

Now, back to you forum, and the rest of this... debate...
 

Darxide

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Pfft, I don't need to explain myself to the inferior race of consolers.

(Yes, it's a joke. I'm still baffled why people don't understand that. Perhaps consolers really *ARE* inferior...)
 

Vegosiux

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As a member of the Glorious PC Master Race™ I hold no hate for console gamers, but, for some of the reasons already stated (input customization, porting, holding games hostage, yadda yadda) I wouldn't miss consoles that much if they were suddenly gone.
 

crimsonshrouds

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The hypocrisy of both sides in this thread is just something that makes me all warm inside and i think i threw up a little in my mouth. Its like the thread for the torchlight 2 thread where it wasn't getting a port to consoles. The thread was going great until a "PC elitist" came in and shit on everybody. The words "glad it isn't getting dumbed down" was used for absolutely no reason other than smug self-satisfaction.
 

Parasondox

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ForumSafari said:
ParsonOSX said:
I have seen several comments around how PC is the "Greatest gaming device" and how several PC gamers consider themselves to be "elites"
Most of those are tongue in cheek but the PC does offer quite a few advantages for not a huge difference in price. There's a difference between saying that the device is better and that the person using the device is better, for one thing everyone with a console could go out and buy a PC if they really wanted to. Most of the actual hostility is due to...

or those on console calling them "elitist".
This. I've seen about twenty times more PC gamers being called elitist than I have PC gamers being elitist. Naturally when the PC gamers are being blamed for an attitude they by and large don't have, being intentionally teased about their choice of money sink and are having petitions like

https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/rockstar-games-dont-make-a-pc-version-of-gta-v#share

and you can start to see why maybe some people get a bit prickly.
Wait wait wait!! Are you telling me someone actually did a petition about stopping GTA V being on PC? What kind of low life pathetic person would do such a thing. I know the internet is filled with trolls with nothing else to do but WHAT THE FUCK!?!? Why can't gamers get along and mostly why don't the trolls just go back under the bridge they came from. I see why PC gamers are pissed.
 

kasperbbs

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You should use search, there are so many duscussions on this subject that i probably wouldn't bother to count.
As for reasons for this, its probably: jealousy ,self assurance ,stupidity ,kids. Oddly enough i see more topics about so called 'PC elitists' than actual people hating on consoles. No matter, soon enough the war between xbone and ps4 will start and everyone will forget about us for a while.
 

KazeAizen

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BloatedGuppy said:
You can doubt it all you want, it's completely true. Brand new consoles are usually comparable to last year's PCs, and the gap swiftly widens from there, as the PC is in a constant state of evolution whereas the console stays relatively static for years.

And frankly, as someone with limited disposable income, I appreciate consoles keeping the overhead down on PC gaming by...well...sucking. Thanks to this absurdly long console generation even seriously aged hardware is still performing famously well.
Sucking? Seriously you are just gonna go right there and say it? That's one thing I wish PC people would just stop saying about consoles. It doesn't make the two any friendlier toward each other and that is unacceptable. Anyway the hardware put into the consoles these days is powerful and probably on par with modern PCs. Here is the problem. Developing a game that utilizes those specs right out of the gate is uber expensive and a huge risk if not an outright dumb move. Until devs can figure out how to make it cost effective or get a bigger budget or something along those lines its hard to push consoles to the brink at the beginning of their life.

You are coming off as if you absolutely hate consoles and truly do think PCs are the best and only way to game. Not sure if you mean to come off like that but you are.
 

Sinful

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Being a long time PC gamer I can honestly say... I don't care about console gamers one bit. And with that I mean, it's their busniss to play on a console.

I chose to be a PC gamer because of the modability of games and the ability to troubleshoot stuff wich you cannot do on consoles. The drawback of PC gaming is however the requirement to update your hardware, and never really knowing if something is going to run flawlessly on your system.

I can understand the people that choose to be console exclusive gamers as you don't have those compatibility issues. Most console gamers have a PC as well though, and most PC gamers have a console nowadays. I see no reason to be hostile to one another. Do you attack someone on the street for wearing a red shirt, because you don't like red shirts? I don't think so.
 

Griffolion

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Not all PC gamers are hostile towards consoles.

Many were disappointed in the lack of a PC release because the level of power the GTA games typically require due to their massive open ended nature makes them a prime target for the PC, which has orders of magnitude higher levels of power available to it than the 8 year old hardware GTA V is now out on.

Many still are poorly socialised and thus cannot express disappointment in a constructive manner, and when combined with the [a href="http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/3/19/"]Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory[/a], you get hostility.

I see no need to be hostile towards consoles for two main reasons:

1 - I like consoles, they fill a function, and are generally great.

2 - PC gaming has never been as amazingly brilliant as it is right now. It's been getting stronger year on year for a very long time now, and shows no signs of slowing down. Consoles are not a threat, there is no need for hostility against them, the PC gamer's situation is amazing enough.
 

BloatedGuppy

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KazeAizen said:
Sucking? Seriously you are just gonna go right there and say it? That's one thing I wish PC people would just stop saying about consoles. It doesn't make the two any friendlier toward each other and that is unacceptable. Anyway the hardware put into the consoles these days is powerful and probably on par with modern PCs. Here is the problem. Developing a game that utilizes those specs right out of the gate is uber expensive and a huge risk if not an outright dumb move. Until devs can figure out how to make it cost effective or get a bigger budget or something along those lines its hard to push consoles to the brink at the beginning of their life.

You are coming off as if you absolutely hate consoles and truly do think PCs are the best and only way to game. Not sure if you mean to come off like that but you are.
Go back and read my post. I HAVE A CONSOLE AS WELL AS A PC. I can talk as much shit about my own platform as I want. It's stupid and grey, and I hate its little lights, and all the whirring sounds it makes. =P

Really though, of course they suck. My PC is a couple years old now. It sucks too. But not as bad as my eight year old console sucks. It's just a big old bag of suck.

Still fun though.
 

DoomyMcDoom

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Arina Love said:
Waaghpowa said:
I don't hate console games/gamers, I hate the inherently closed nature of consoles, the corporations behind them and the general ignorance that comes from people regarding technology in general.

PC gaming is objectively better due to it's vast options of peripherals, large library, game longevity, visuals and performance. But the moment you start to mention just how old and outdated some fanboys precious corporate game box is, they flip their shit and call you an elitist, because they don't actually know what that word means.

Basically Joccaren has the best answer.
I'm sorry but saying "PC gaming is objectively better" is just not true. In my case "vast options of peripherals" that i don't care about, "large library" that doesn't have any games that i'm interested in. So in the end i have pretty decent pc and still majority of games i buy i play on PS3, because PC doesn't have those games. For me PS3 is subjectively better platform for games. PC gaming would be objectively better if it had every console exclusive and was better hardware with mods and stuff, but as it stands now there is no objectively better platform for games.
What you just stated there, is that the PC is not objectively better, because you find the PS3 subjectively better.
Objectivity, doesn't take into account personal opinion on certain very specific things, take the fact that you like some PS3 exlusive titles, and the PC doesn't support a port of those titles, this does not mean that the PC suddenly loses the insanely huge game library it has, which dwarfs the PS3s entire lineup in an entirely objective comparison, or the fact that the hardware IS better, or the fact that it has a multitude of controller options the scope and scale of which puts all of the consoles on the market combined to shame.

I see your point, you prefer the PS3 because it has the games you like on it, and that's perfectly fine, but that is personal opinion, and preference, and is of a purely subjective nature.

In short, pc gaming IS objectively better, maybe not subjectively, but in that case the whole point shouldn't matter to you, play what you like on what you want, nobody is stopping you.
 

AuronFtw

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Joccaren said:
Oh god, why did a Objective/Subjective argument pop up -.-

Lets settle this here. When you say 'Good', 'Bad', 'Better', 'Worse' you are no longer talking objectively.
Yes, which is why "objectively superior hardware, objectively bigger library of games, objectively more competitive market driving prices down for consumers, and objectively more hardware/software available" is the argument. None of them are a matter of opinion. One number is greater than another number. One list is bigger than another list. Lower prices are lower than higher prices. This isn't rocket science.

People can "prefer" to game on a console, but even that's something "done better" by PC: by plugging a controller in (360 wired controllers are available for cheap and are pretty sturdy) you can play the PC versions of games "as designed" for a controller, on a system with better hardware, access to game mods, etc, all of which is "objectively superior" to a console. Unless your preference is literally seeing the PS3 logo come up when you start the game (for... whatever reason) the experience can be matched and beaten on a PC.

The "objective" argument has merit. All you have to do is compare numbers, lists, and prices. One is objectively better than the other. Personal preference matters for a lot, which is why the majority of PC gamers even in this thread have said "we're cool with people playing consoles," but if you're trying to come up with a list of reasons why consoles are better, you are going to fail, because they are not.

Objectively.

Addendum: A big part of the console crowd literally doesn't know better; they don't know that the services they pay for, the games they play, etc are all available, typically for less money, on PC. Another part of the console crowd is tied to their library; if you have 30 games for PS3, it's kind of a ***** "giving it up" and trying to swap to a PC (although right now would be a great time to do it, since PCs are going to be objectively more powerful than the next gen consoles and they haven't even come out yet). Some console gamers are in in a gamer circle of friends that all play on a specific console, making it harder/not feasible for them to "swap" to PCs. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to play a console. But please, PLEASE don't try to say that consoles are "better" for any of these reasons; they're merely circumstance. Side by side, one gaming machine is "superior" to the other. It's not even a competition, given how far ahead PCs are at this point.

There used to be two big reasons in favor of consoles; painless plug-and-play and exclusive titles. Now that consoles update about as frequently as PC programs, and given that you have to pay for online services (in addition to... paying for the internet in your house), and given how far PCs have come in terms of automatic driver installation and auto-detecting USB controllers/equipment, that plug and play reason is totally demolished. That leaves publishers holding their game hostage on a console as the only reason "in favor" of consoles. They want someone to shell out $360 for a game they want instead of $60; but if you consider hostage titles "in favor" of consoles instead of "highlighting one of the reasons the console market is hurting the entire games industry," you might want to think about it a little harder.
 

loc978

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ParsonOSX said:
ForumSafari said:
ParsonOSX said:
I have seen several comments around how PC is the "Greatest gaming device" and how several PC gamers consider themselves to be "elites"
Most of those are tongue in cheek but the PC does offer quite a few advantages for not a huge difference in price. There's a difference between saying that the device is better and that the person using the device is better, for one thing everyone with a console could go out and buy a PC if they really wanted to. Most of the actual hostility is due to...

or those on console calling them "elitist".
This. I've seen about twenty times more PC gamers being called elitist than I have PC gamers being elitist. Naturally when the PC gamers are being blamed for an attitude they by and large don't have, being intentionally teased about their choice of money sink and are having petitions like

https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/rockstar-games-dont-make-a-pc-version-of-gta-v#share

and you can start to see why maybe some people get a bit prickly.
Wait wait wait!! Are you telling me someone actually did a petition about stopping GTA V being on PC? What kind of low life pathetic person would do such a thing. I know the internet is filled with trolls with nothing else to do but WHAT THE FUCK!?!? Why can't gamers get along and mostly why don't the trolls just go back under the bridge they came from. I see why PC gamers are pissed.
That feeling right there... remember it. That would be how most PC gamers feel when some asshole insults console gamers "for all of us" over a preference.

...as for me, I just dislike thumbsticks for a vast majority of game genres. I feel they're slow and imprecise for anything other than specifying a direction (which is why they're awesome for the Batman Arkham games). If I could plug a keyboard and mouse into my PS3 to play Red Dead Redemption, I wouldn't call Rockstar a bunch of pricks for being so dismissive... but so far the only games I've encountered with that option are Dust 514 and Unreal Tournament.
 

DoomyMcDoom

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Joccaren said:
Oh god, why did a Objective/Subjective argument pop up -.-

Lets settle this here. When you say 'Good', 'Bad', 'Better', 'Worse' you are no longer talking objectively. Full stop.
"The PC has better hardware" is not an objective statement. You have not qualified 'Better'. The PC has more advanced hardware? Sure. Stronger hardware? Sure. Hardware with greater technical capabilities? Sure. 'Better' hardware? Define better.

An example. Murder is not, objectively, a bad thing. It is a thing. That is all that you can objectively say about it; Murder is the act of taking another person's life. It is not objectively bad. Welcome to nihilism. Now, we all understand murder as bad as that is our subjective moral code, and judged by our moral code we can say murder is bad, however that is not an objective statement. The only objective statement that can be made along those lines is 'Murder is considered an evil act by the moral code in question'.

Continuing from this, we can therefore not call either the PC or console objectively better. We can state facts about that, and how a majority might perceive those facts, but there is no objective measure here. A PC has more options for peripherals, a far larger library of games, often cheaper games, more powerful hardware and several exclusive genres, however that does not make it 'Better' objectively. It means, objectively, it has those qualities. Subjectively you can perceive those qualities to be important or unimportant dependant on who is judging. This is, conveniently enough, why you cannot make an objective statement about these sorts of things; because people's opinions of what constitutes 'better' differ, and hence so does what is 'better'.

Now, back to you forum, and the rest of this... debate...
Actually, when conducting an objective comparison, you CAN determine, from a purely objective standpoint which of a group of things is better, especially if they have so much in common as consoles and PCs, this isn't an apples and oranges debate, this is about hardware with definable and numerically quantifiable statistics, and specifications.

Number of available games, average game prices, and available control options, are just SOME of the ways that "Objectively" PC gaming is the superior option.
Whether a person wants to learn to use a system or not, is purely subjective, whether something is "convenient" to someone is subjective, and "What kind of games are available" and "what do you like playing" are subjective, they don't count.

So when you look at purely numbers, what's more powerful, how many games are available for purchase and what they cost, these are what matter in a purely objective comparison, as such, you won't find a platform, with more, or cheaper games, than the PC.

Not saying someone is wrong in any way to prefer a console, or what have you, as that is purely subjective, and trying to argue this subjectively is a purely infantile shouting match.

I say like what you like, play what you want to play.

However, if you intend to argue a point, at least do some research before you step up to the podium.
When comparing two limited constructs, with very specific variables, to say that the one with less options is somehow superior, is the standpoint of the uninformed, or of someone who doesn't understand the meaning of objectivity, and subjectivity.

To again clarify my point, nobody is wrong for choosing to game on a console instead of a PC, but you are choosing the option that is subjectively better, for YOU, and there is NOTHING wrong with that.
 

Zeles

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I'm a PC gamer, and I have to say... I really don't CARE if you play on console or PC. I just care if you've played certain games so that we can talk about them.