A question to the grown adult men of the Escapist
- Thread starter intheweeds
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knowing that some women would harm you doesn't make you filter your women then?j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
I find absolutely nothing quarrelsome about two single people who are both drunk willingly consenting to sex, doing so unprotected merely highlights the stupidity and impetuousness of both individuals. However this is the problem:
If you know the person you're hitting on is in a committed relationship and from the sounds of it could well be a friend as well then that's pretty damn low and reprehensible, but I'm curious as to what scale of inebriation the guy was on after seeing this:intheweeds said:
Basically I'm trying to guage what level of self-control both individuals were capable of exerting, alcohol does effect people in drastically different ways after all and if as you say; do not believe that drinking should not excuse ones behaviour then she is clearly at fault as well. From the sounds of things neither one of them were in their right state of mind when they went ahead with this. I'm not trying to defend either one of them but merely point out that they both fucked up here and should both subsequently be held responsible for their actions. Having said that, at least the girl in question appears remorseful and apologetic for what she has done and if the guy is not equally ashamed then he fucking well should be. Also, I'm sorry that this whole situation has befallen you, for whatever that's worth.intheweeds said:
intheweeds said:
The same brush is being used to tar large groups of people. You appear to be pretty certain of an entire genders viewpoint. You also seem very assured of theoretical situations.intheweeds said:
[SATIRE]It seems like you already have a pretty steadfast opinion on men.... like most lesbians. [/SATIRE]
On the jerk scale of 1-10, taking advantage of intoxicated woman by even asking to touch her is a 7 at least, having sex with her is a 9 or 10. It could also be considered rape in some circles and get you arrested. This isn't even male sexuality, this is just weather or not you are a decent person.
Also, I can see that you're a female. I mean come on, your profile picture has a beaver!
Also, I can see that you're a female. I mean come on, your profile picture has a beaver!
Isn't that more useful information than what we think about it, then?intheweeds said:
Since you're responding so quickly, I'm really curious: What have you gotten out of this so far? What do you take away from the response you have received? Hopefully that's clear. I'm not sure exactly how else to word it.
Did I say that are men are evil and should be castrated at birth? No.Togs said:
I'm a good guy and I know lots of good guys.
However, the realities of rape statistics are the realities of rape statistics. When I was a Resident Assistant at college, despite the fact that there are a lot of good guys out there in the world, I needed to warn the incoming 18 year old female students of a bunch of things: don't drink, it is illegal, but if you do drink don't drink any drinks you haven't seen mixed yourself. Better preferably if you stick to drinks in bottles. Do not leave your drink unattended. If you go to party with guys, make sure you use the buddy system. Don't let your girlfriends out of your sight and don't ever leave them their unattended. Why? Because the rape statistics for women on college campuses during rush week are really, really bad.
One of the other points of the phrase "all men are potential rapists" is that our society has built the fiction that the rapist is a scary man you'll jump you from the bushes...but the majority of rapes are not the scary sex offender down the street...or the guy with the 70s mustache...but probably someone you know and assume is a good guy.
As the moment, the movement to stop men from raping is very small. There are very few male organizations working to stop rape by talking to other men. There are some, but not many.
What this means is that women tend to have to do a lot of work to protect themselves for prevention since we guys aren't making this a priority for ourselves. So part of that is warning women, watch out--that guy you go out on a okcupid date with might rape you. So, here are some precautions you can take. If it all turns out excellent, then yay! But, better safe than sorry. Because if something bad happens, as this thread shows, people are going to blame you for it.
Actually, the reason that this is, by Canadian law, illegal, is that you can't give legal consent while intoxicated. In other words, by that logic, she (or maybe even both of them I dunno) was raped, as she couldn't have given consent.fenrizz said:
That is why, by Canadian law, she was raped.
I'd give the guy a 6 for his lack of morality but i'd give the girl a -1 on the intelligence/morality scale. She put her self in this situation, the one at fault is her not him no matter how despicable it is that he decided to initiate. Being drunk is no excuse to cheat.
I'm probably the wrong person to comment. I'm pathetically analytical from moment to moment...I never truly get lost in the moment socially or when drunk so this would never happen to me, I'll never get it.
It's strikes me as profoundly stupid and creepy...on both sides.
I'm sure your respect for your partner is (at least for the time being) severely diminished. The pressing question(to my mind) is whether or not you can forgive her or trust her again.
It's strikes me as profoundly stupid and creepy...on both sides.
I'm sure your respect for your partner is (at least for the time being) severely diminished. The pressing question(to my mind) is whether or not you can forgive her or trust her again.
[SATIRE] being a lesbian, I have had tons of conversations with women, but my circles don't contain many men[/SATIRE]priestswearseatbelts said:
this is actually true, as stereotypical as it sounds, its just a fact. I have far more experience talking to women. I know people feel differently about everything, this thread is testament to that. Here there are differing views by men, but a few are overwhelmingly agreed upon, whereas some are more controversial and less agreed with.
Women are no different, there's always someone who feels differently than you, the cross section of women i've talked to seem to mostly agree that this is disgusting. While it's true that both parties have a responsibility, I don't believe that generally women would behave the same way if they had the same biology as men. Lesbians aren't as man hating as is said either. It's actually gotten a little opposite the last ten years or so in my experience. Lesbians hating men is an outdated stereotype. There are better ones.
What I don't know is what men feel. Because it's true, I dont know as many of them day to day well enough to be having conversations like this.
Inflammatory statements such as that make sense in some circumstances -- to underline the severity of the situation, using exaggerated statements will bring a more violent response which can be seen by more people.trooper6 said:
In this case, I don't see the necessity. The language is extraordinarily misleading and plays to a known stereotype. Pitting two factions (male and female) against one another in order to help quell a serious issue between them is hardly logical.
TL;DR: Find a better way to say "All men are potential rapists". Because it evokes a knee-jerk reaction for it's egregious inaccuracy.
I'm going to try and answer the question asked, rather than the implied questions behind it.
How far on the d-bag scale is this guy? 9 +/- 1. If he was very drunk too, well, that's two drunken adults together and bad things happen. Don't get that drunk that you can't make sensible decisions. You're an 8-ish if you got massively hammered and did something so incredibly stupid. You are not absolved for being drunk, but it implies a lack of malice. You're approaching a 9 if you were drunk and weren't thinking straight, but you're still a complete dick. You're a flat out 10 if you knew what the Hell you were doing and chose to do so. You fail mister, get out. Known partner = no. Clearly drunk = NO. No condom = NO! All = GET OUT.
Unfortunately the female in question is also 9 +/- 1. Do. Not. Get. This. Drunk. It applies to both. If she really wasn't in control, that's the 8 again. You are not absolved for being drunk. If she was half-way, but thinking muddily, that's a 9 (You're drunk, but you still have a long-term partner you have a duty to). If she got drunk with the intention of not having responsibility for her actions and doing something stupid, that's a 10. That's a poor excuse for a human being, you are again invited to get out.
No point trying to assign blame, both hugely at fault, but also both score pretty damn highly on the scale provided. The situation implies that there are more factors at work than I can appreciate, and the level of responsibility changes with these factors.
I would not associate with a man this high on the scale. I would also not have a partner capable of getting so high on the scale either, but in the theoretical situation of it happening to mine, I would attempt to support her while working out if I could get over it. It would not be a mark of shame if you could not, but it would be a mark of pride if you could forgive her (assuming her remorse is genuine). She will need your help.
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Disclaimer: I don't drink. I can't stand not being in control of my actions. I don't disapprove of those who do drink, but I do disapprove of those who use drink to excuse their actions. I'm in a long-term stable relationship but am not of religious or moral opposition to casual sex, just lack of respect for your partner. Now you know the bias behind what I've said, take it into account.
How far on the d-bag scale is this guy? 9 +/- 1. If he was very drunk too, well, that's two drunken adults together and bad things happen. Don't get that drunk that you can't make sensible decisions. You're an 8-ish if you got massively hammered and did something so incredibly stupid. You are not absolved for being drunk, but it implies a lack of malice. You're approaching a 9 if you were drunk and weren't thinking straight, but you're still a complete dick. You're a flat out 10 if you knew what the Hell you were doing and chose to do so. You fail mister, get out. Known partner = no. Clearly drunk = NO. No condom = NO! All = GET OUT.
Unfortunately the female in question is also 9 +/- 1. Do. Not. Get. This. Drunk. It applies to both. If she really wasn't in control, that's the 8 again. You are not absolved for being drunk. If she was half-way, but thinking muddily, that's a 9 (You're drunk, but you still have a long-term partner you have a duty to). If she got drunk with the intention of not having responsibility for her actions and doing something stupid, that's a 10. That's a poor excuse for a human being, you are again invited to get out.
No point trying to assign blame, both hugely at fault, but also both score pretty damn highly on the scale provided. The situation implies that there are more factors at work than I can appreciate, and the level of responsibility changes with these factors.
I would not associate with a man this high on the scale. I would also not have a partner capable of getting so high on the scale either, but in the theoretical situation of it happening to mine, I would attempt to support her while working out if I could get over it. It would not be a mark of shame if you could not, but it would be a mark of pride if you could forgive her (assuming her remorse is genuine). She will need your help.
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Disclaimer: I don't drink. I can't stand not being in control of my actions. I don't disapprove of those who do drink, but I do disapprove of those who use drink to excuse their actions. I'm in a long-term stable relationship but am not of religious or moral opposition to casual sex, just lack of respect for your partner. Now you know the bias behind what I've said, take it into account.
It really boils down to two apparent drunks that don't know their limit. Drinking so much that you lose the inhibition to random/unwanted sexual activity is not drinking properly. The guy however if he was not at the same level of intoxication and had just enough that he would be buzzed and still have most of his wits about him would be a jerk in that case. If however they are both totally sloshed, now you just have two drunks bumping uglies that really would be better off in an AA meeting.
doesn't this negate the morality of the situation just falling on to the guy? I mean if being drunk doesn't excuse behavior, not saying it should, than she was just as much at fault and was clearly able to say no but she didn't so ergo she wanted it too?intheweeds said: