Abortion....why?

[Aprilgold]

On the other hand, the anti-abortion people are continually upset by the law not supporting their views.

I bolded that there because thats sorta how society works, HOWEVER if we change the word People to Hardcore Religious Followers then you have what amounts to blind faith and therefore can not listen to reason.

Seriously, I stopped caring what Hardcore Religious Followers have to say when they think that everything is a sin and ignore some of their own gospel.

 

[TehCookie]

It because of tradition. No one got abortions for the first couple thousand years of human history. And there are actually people who think that the best choice is the most popular one. Most of those people are Christians.

Now, I think that freedom is the ultimate good, and preventing life is removal of all freedom. So abortion should be allowed if the "child" agrees to give all of his freedom to his mother.

Actually in the past they didn't do abortions as we know it, but they did try to induce miscarriages. Not to mention back then there was less of a concern for safety because having a normal baby was still dangerous. While the christian church was against it at first it was never illegal and later it was more acceptable since families couldn't afford to feed all their kids. Fun facts I learned in my sociology class.

 

[Something Amyss]

I read the Bible. I really don't remember abortion being a topic for discussion, seeing as how the people who wrote the Bible and were alive when it took place didn't even know what germs were, let alone how sexual reproduction worked, let alone have a word for the concept of intentional aborted pregnancy.

If you're expecting Christianity to rely on the Bible to determine their beliefs, you're going to be shocked a lot.

 

[Xanadu84]

Why is it so associated with Christianity? I don't know. That is a puzzler.

Why are people so passionate about it? That's easy.

First, I am pro-choice. Abortions are fine, morally and otherwise. But its easy to see where the pro-lifers get so feisty.

Pro-lifers believe that life, the soul, begins at conception. The soul, consciousness, whatever, is a very weird, confusing, mystery filled topic. We just can't know for sure. The idea that a soul comes to us at conception seems about as crazy as any other theory. And after conception, where the baby itself starts to form in certain ways, its even easier to think that maybe there's a soul in that thing. Now sure, logically, you should look at brain development, but glossing over that if your not a strong adherent to the scientific method is pretty natural. Besides, the only sane thing to do is err on the side of caution. And so, you have Pro-lifers making very few wrong assumptions, and no assumptions that are actually crazy, and that only slightly wrong logic arrives at the conclusion that abortion is the wide-scale legally sanctioned murder of babies. Literally. To say that you are a man and it can't effect you is exactly like saying that you are not Jewish so its wrong to criticize those Nazis in their concentration camps. From that perspective, there is functionally no difference between a woman saying her body, her choice, and a mother who puts her baby in the back seat of a car and drives it into a lake. From that perspective, a perspective that is very easy to understand when you squint just right, stopping abortion is an even bigger moral imperative then stopping the most horrible genocide you can imagine.

This is what bugs me about pro-choice arguments: They rarely matter. Argue that an aborted fetus doesn't have the brain cells for consciousness, because thats the only thing that matters. That is the singular and only argument that counters the pro-lifers argument that abortion is Murder, and if Abortion is murder, nothing a pro-choice person could say could counter that. Womens Rights don't actually matter in the Abortion debate. If the baby is consciousness, infanticide is by far the worse sin. If the baby isn't, there's no reason to oppose abortion in the first place.

 

[Twilight_guy]

The bible does mention that you shouldn't kill and since a child or fetus or what-have-you at any stage is considered alive it considered murder to get an abortion. Why is it such a highly charged issue? I guess it just got lucky. What issues do and do not become big are effect by a chatoic number of varibles and its hard to say why one thing is important and another isn't.

 

[TheFlyingMango]

This is always a hot topic at my school as I have been going to a Catholic school for fifteen years now. Everyone preaches abortion as an evil but I never agreed with that. I am not religous or anything like that but being "raised" Catholic sure has pounded some of thier morals into my mind. They say things like adoption is always an option, but everyone knows the things children go through in the system. If people were to truly believe in these things then they would adopt/foster or at least try to see it from the other's shoes. Until then I am on the side of secular government, who is the church to tell others what to do?

 

[hotsauceman]

OT: It is because most pro-life people consider abortion equal to murder. They think that when one aborts, that person is killing a child, and emotions take over. As for why Christians think it is bad, well the Bible says murder is bad, so by putting two and two together... I think you can do the rest.

To quote many many books i have read on the topic of abortion "Many pro-lifers also curiously to be the ones who support the death penelty and increase funds for the military."

But i used to be a pro-lifer. Till i realised the best way to stop abortion is to teach others how to have sex safily, increase fund to help those who have children and other such things like that.
I also realise that if you take it away, they will seek it elsewhere and it could be even worse.
If they truly do not want that baby, They are going to get rid of it.
But i think Many are militant about it because they see it as an evil. Kinda funny how People bomb abortion clinics and kill people in there...for killing.

 

[Something Amyss]

I don't know what part of the Bible it's in though.

Actually, about the only place you will find anything of the sort in the Bible talks about striking a woman and causing a miscarriage, and treats it more as a property crime. OT-wise, they don't even census children beneath the age of three, life is so "sacred."

The belief in abortion as murder and life beginning at conception is relatively new, and relatively unsupported in a Biblical sense. We don't get anything saying "Abortion is cool," though. I suppose that's enough.

 

[FateOrFatality]

The question I'm really posing was brought to me by moviebob's Breaking Dawn review. Why do so many people care so passionately and want to tell everyone why abortion is baaaaaadddddd? Entire works of art are devoted to it, even going as far back as Nightmare on Elm Street 5. It seems like a lot of Christians tend to be the "pro-lifers," but why is that really? I read the Bible. I really don't remember abortion being a topic for discussion, seeing as how the people who wrote the Bible and were alive when it took place didn't even know what germs were, let alone how sexual reproduction worked, let alone have a word for the concept of intentional aborted pregnancy.

I'm not defending anyone, and I agree that people should have the right to abortion, but the reason Christians are so against it is because apparently we are all made in the image of God, and thus we need to respect the sanctity of life. Some guy came up with "Natural Law" (or something along those lines) that says that using contraception, having abortions and having sex with another man is bad because of that.

Yeah, going to a Catholic school sucks. I don't even want to know all that...

 

[aei_haruko]

The other day at work I had to listen to a coworker (a guy I sort of like) do a mini-rant about the evils of abortion to five other guys. I was going to pop in my prepared pro-choice / pro abortion / troll speech, but I didn't bother. Not because I agreed with him, but because I really don't care anymore. Being a man, I can never have an abortion, nor can I legally bind someone against having an abortion. I'm all about freedom of choice and want it to be legal on that basis alone, but other than that it's difficult for me to work up the spirit to defend it strongly. (I mean I could, I just didn't and don't feel like it at the moment.)

The question I'm really posing was brought to me by moviebob's Breaking Dawn review. Why do so many people care so passionately and want to tell everyone why abortion is baaaaaadddddd? Entire works of art are devoted to it, even going as far back as Nightmare on Elm Street 5. It seems like a lot of Christians tend to be the "pro-lifers," but why is that really? I read the Bible. I really don't remember abortion being a topic for discussion, seeing as how the people who wrote the Bible and were alive when it took place didn't even know what germs were, let alone how sexual reproduction worked, let alone have a word for the concept of intentional aborted pregnancy.

Feel free to troll, flame, or otherwise do forum stuff that could get you banned or the thread deleted. I want to hear from both Christians, sociologists, and smart-alecks alike. Why is this a Christian cause? Who made it that way? And how is it perpetuated?

I'm going to sound really odd by saying this, but I am an atheist...and pro life

you see, i view that the minute 2 different genes come together to form an entirely new set of genes ( i;e conception) that life begins.
Thus, i believe it is murder to do an abortion. Because the right to live, is the most supreme right that we as humans hold ( not given by a creator in my book). Thus no right can infringe on it. The only time i believe it is okay, is when the mother is going to die along with the baby, because if life will be lost anyway, there might as well be a choice in he matter to be held by the one making the choice. Plus abortion as a practice seems selfish to me. It's be Like saying " i did something, but i dont wanna live with my actions, so I'm going to just get rid of a problem" of course, i'm not talking about rape, obviously a girl didnt make a choice, the rapist did, and he made a sick disgusting choice. But why harm an innocent party that did nothing in the matter?

 

[idarkphoenixi]

Speaking in general terms, people who are against abortion no matter what are usually on the right wing of politics. What I mean by that is they are against big Government, officials and bureaucrats telling you what to do (or not to do).

But surely government can't get much bigger than being inside a womens uterus and controlling her birth?


Side note: If they're against abortion they're probably pro-execution too. Yay for irony!

 

[Guardian of Nekops]

Well, the Christian rationalization for being so up-in-arms about it is fairly easy to understand. They believe, rightly or wrongly, that abortion is tantamount to the murder of an inconvenient human, something that I think we can all agree is about as bad as it gets. From their perspective, they are saving innocent lives, which we all agree is admirable.

Asking such a person to feed, shelter, and clothe a homeless person for 18 years might be an interesting counterpoint... if you don't, they might well die (and there's certainly no shortage of people who WILL, even if you have to cross oceans to get to them), but it is indeed massively inconvenient and the insidiously handy defense of "it's not my problem," is there to save them. All in all, not a very Christian thing to say but... everybody does. Couldn't function otherwise.

As for why those in favor of abortion get worked up about it... well, it might be good to compare it to how you feel when someone calls you a murderer because you eat meat. They are calling you a horrible person because you don't follow their moral code, something that, at least from the outside, looks like it would require every bit of your effort, just to make them happy, and because you don't you're being called a murderer.

Now, imagine that a good portion of the news media/world agreed with that person rather than mostly calling their claims ludicrous. About half, or so it seems. Imagine that there were serious efforts being made to make steak illegal, and to punish those who ate meat as war criminals. Imagine if there were people not currently locked up in an insane asylum who defended vicious attacks against restaraunt owners... Can you imagine how scared you'd be?

So yeah, I can see both sides of it, and why people get worked up. One side looks at the other and sees a bunch of baby-killers, while the other look back at those who would chain them down to raising kids, alone, while they are still teenagers... and then still not be happy with them because, with their oh-so-vast experience of the world, they should have known better.

So, basically, murderers on the one side, slavers on the other. Both trying to do right, not saying they aren't... but it's a bit of a public relations nightmare.

 

[ccggenius12]

But why harm an innocent party that did nothing in the matter?

That sentence could apply just as well to the woman who was raped.

 

[Chemical Alia]

Plus abortion as a practice seems selfish to me. It's be Like saying " i did something, but i dont wanna live with my actions, so I'm going to just get rid of a problem" of course, i'm not talking about rape, obviously a girl didnt make a choice, the rapist did, and he made a sick disgusting choice. But why harm an innocent party that did nothing in the matter?

I dunno, that sounds to me like a pretty good reasoning for not wanting to endure pregnancy, childbirth and raising a child you never wanted. Not when there's such an obvious solution.

 

[zehydra]

My stance against abortion has nothing to do with religion, and I have the biggest problem with late abortions. I don't think life (in any meaningful sense) starts at conception, but I think it's wrong to consider something "not alive" just because it's in the womb.

 

[zehydra]

Plus abortion as a practice seems selfish to me. It's be Like saying " i did something, but i dont wanna live with my actions, so I'm going to just get rid of a problem" of course, i'm not talking about rape, obviously a girl didnt make a choice, the rapist did, and he made a sick disgusting choice. But why harm an innocent party that did nothing in the matter?

I dunno, that sounds to me like a pretty good reasoning for not wanting to endure pregnancy, childbirth and raising a child you never wanted. Not when there's such an obvious solution.

Raising the child is never required in today's society.

 

[Thaluikhain]

But why harm an innocent party that did nothing in the matter?

That sentence could apply just as well to the woman who was raped.

Exactly.

However, if you believe abortion is wrong because all human life is precious, and extend that to your other beliefs, than I can somewhat respect that, if not agree with it. It's people who use that line when discussing abortion, but who conveniently ignore it when dealing with other topics I really hate.

 

[aei_haruko]

But why harm an innocent party that did nothing in the matter?

That sentence could apply just as well to the woman who was raped.

I'm just saying, that really, would you want to be told " sorry man, I dont want you to grow up because i dont want you in my life" I just think that really, if a kid didnt do anything to you, then why punish an innocent child for the crimes of a horrible horrible person? I mean, yes, the rapist was terrible, he took months of your free time, he took your body sexually, and i could understand resentment to your child. However, no matter whom your father is, that doesnt mean that you shoudnt live.

Plus abortion as a practice seems selfish to me. It's be Like saying " i did something, but i dont wanna live with my actions, so I'm going to just get rid of a problem" of course, i'm not talking about rape, obviously a girl didnt make a choice, the rapist did, and he made a sick disgusting choice. But why harm an innocent party that did nothing in the matter?

I dunno, that sounds to me like a pretty good reasoning for not wanting to endure pregnancy, childbirth and raising a child you never wanted. Not when there's such an obvious solution.

and again, why should the baby be punished for the crimes of another person? Plus, I'm not saying that somebody should have to raise their chld, you could put the child up for adoption. Why is it that if people want an easy fix that people go for abortion? adoption is the exact same principle: go through a medical proceudre, and not have to face your child again ( the medical procedure in adoptions case being physically giving birth)
I just think it's wrong for somebody who did no wrong ( the child) to be punished, likewise, i'm not saying ' mother must raise their children which they didnt plan for and were made out of rape" Hell no, I'm just saying, give your child a chance to live, because I believe that everybody deserves a chance to live, and that anybdy who takes away those rights inherint in all people, isding something wrong

 

[Ryan Minns]

Eh, I'm against it due to personal reasons that have sweet **** all to do with religion.

Just wish more abortions were based on things other than not wanting to take responsibility, not being able to is one thing, simply not wanting to is all too common though