Analyst Calls The Old Republic a "WoW Clone"

JMeganSnow

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Saelune said:
What? Its an MMO? Yes, yes it is an MMO. Sheesh, the term WoW clone needs to die. Any game that fits the MMORPG genre is a WoW clone, just as any sandbox game is a GTA clone. Sometimes people want a cheese burger, sometimes they want a bacon burger, both are burgers though.
I've never heard anyone refer to my MMO (Dungeons and Dragons Online) as a WoW-clone, even though it probably resembles WoW very strongly in non-gameplay elements (the fantasy setting, say). The game design is so radically different that there's just no real comparison between the two. I'd give a rundown, but it'd probably be both long and uninteresting.

People I know who have played TOR at conventions and so forth have said that it doesn't feel substantially different from WoW in any way. (You get quests and complete quests in a very similar manner, you explore in a very similar manner, etc.) But they also said that they didn't get to look at a substantial portion of the game, either.
 

Archtype

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A WoW clone? What idiocy. Has he not been watching the gameplay videos? Dialogue options with massive amounts of voice acting and campaign story changing like Mass Effect constantly....yeah its definitely a knock off. I wonder does anyone else understand that WoW ripped off of several other games for everything "new" that it did? It is not like they just magically came up with it on their own.
 

Elfgore

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Every online games is a World of Warcraft rip off. Every FPS is a Call of Duty rip off. Every button masher platformer is a God of War rip off. Thats is basically the idelogy of every game reviewer and critic. Even Zero Puntuation calls things God of War rip offs.
 

Jennacide

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Far from surprised. Then again, only MMO I've had an interest in lately is Blade and Soul, even though it'll likely be a standard Korean MMO grindfest, it /sounds/ like it could be interesting combat, and the art style based on Hyung Tae Kim is goddam amazing eye candy.
 

rsvp42

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adamtm said:
1) Ill defined like anything else, hell we have problems properly defining a genre like Science Fiction which is around for ages. I've seen people go up in flames when calling Star Wars either scifi or fantasy. Its as well defined as it can get without a oxford dictionary definition. I've never seen anyone seriously argue that WoW Clone = WoW with new textures. Like i said, its a mental shortcut, a heuristic to convey a very big (sometimes abstract) concept in a short amount of time. WoW became a certain concept of design.

2) I can not agree to this as I did not play the game and only can go by what ive seen in press releases and online, which didnt warrant that kind of nuanced criticism as i tried to point out earlier. What I'd like to know is where you draw the line of what is nuanced enough to not be a WoW clone? Therefore name an MMO that is in your opinion a WoW clone.

3) It goes without saying that the assessment is his own, all assessments are primarily ones own and people can agree or disagree with them. There can be a consensus or disagreement however this does not impact the truth of a statement. I.e. if you are basing the accuracy of a statement of its popularity you are committing a fallacy called Argumentum ad Populum.
No one on this forum, as far as i have seen, has treated the statement as fact, they either agreed or disagreed with it. I happen to agree with the assessment.
However I'd like to add that his position and education make his opinion weighted, as i would treat an opinion of an Nuclear Physicist concerning the LHC with more weight than I would the same opinion heard from a Geologist. This is not an appeal to authority, its simply a consideration that he is qualified, im still not treating his opinion as truth.
1) I get that now, but the term is blunt and inexact, especially if the same term can be used for both Rift and TOR. It's also a disparaging description, implying that the game in question has no original and redeeming qualities. By calling a game a WoW clone based on a few game mechanics, you disregard large portions of the game, which--for the sake of intellectual honesty--should be considered. For instance, Rift is highly derivative of WoW, to much greater degree than a game like TOR.

2) And that's the problem. You should probably play it, but I realize that's easier said than done until after release. It's important to note that I consider this issue in terms of a spectrum. It's not a black/white, clone/not-clone issue. Some games, like Rift, are very close in terms of feel and play style. The lore, setting, and technology level of Rift--from my perspective--don't diverge greatly from WoW. It is another high fantasy MMO with text-box story and questing, somewhat differentiated by its "dynamic" content. TOR, on the other hand, is further down the spectrum, away from WoW. Obviously not nearly as far as a game like Eve because TOR's general structure is cut from the same cloth as WoW, but its extra features, very different quest presentation, and its differences in lore/setting separate it from the WoW experience substantially. Obviously, some players are less focused on lore, design, or how story is presented and may be more likely to disregard these differences.

3) What are his qualifications exactly? I realize that he's a financial analyst, but what is his experience playing and/or reviewing games? What is his experience with MMOs? The "truth" in his statement may only apply to certain gamers that share his tastes. In fact it must, considering the range of different gameplay reactions.

edit: at this point, it's really just agree/disagree. Without extended playtime, we're basically just going off of personal reaction to the information that has been released. If you or this analyst have been "unimpressed," my positive impression doesn't really mean much to you. And vice versa.
 

jarowdowsky

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God, just realised how much this discussion reminds me of the Extra Credits about MMOs - http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/1906-The-Future-of-MMOs
 

ninja51

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Theres two camps of people on this issue and I actually find it hilarious how everyone can be pinned to one of them. Theres the people who pretty much just say "Not very suprising, sorta looked like it anyway from what i've seen. Dont really care too much about the game though." And then there are the rabid dog fans attacking the analist and essentially just saying hes stupid.

I would consider myself sorta in the first camp. It looked very point and clicky to me, and the art style was very very obviously take huge cues from World of Warcraft. But, well like I said my camp kinda universaly does, and that is not caring.
 

TheTim

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I feel the same way, that being said, a wow clone with star wars paint would be perfect imo.
 

Atmos Duality

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Lacsapix said:
every MMO is like WoW in some ways
WoW didn't really invent MMOs either; it simply took the grind-model, streamlined it, and now it makes shitloads of money.

Of course, it helped that WoW had a solid fanbase from Warcraft to launch it; Star Wars has a much larger fanbase, yes, but it's a fanbase that's already had a Star Wars MMO (and you can guess how popular that is now).

To the surprise of few, I predict that WoW will continue to represent the innovation ceiling for mainstream MMOs until Blizzard finally decides to kill it.
 

Jake the Snake

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I don't know what to make of SWTOR. Personally, I think it will be ok. Not sure if I'm going to get it, but at least it's TRYING to bring something new to the table. This man must be a cynic. *Shrug* Oh well. I guess we'll find out eventually, right?
 

kouriichi

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Saying TOR is like WoW is like saying Battlefield is like Call of Duty.

Yes, they both involve grinding, class specific roles, and farming. But every other MMO out there does. TOR is as much like WoW as it is like Champions on line, or Rift. Its an MMO, what are you expecting?

Besides, they wernt able to show of most of the features they have planned. This was basically a rough look at the game.

People like this piss me off because they always talk like theyre superior to the average gamer, and all of theyre judgments are 100% correct. It doesnt have to be a "Huge step forward" to be a great game. Most games arnt a "huge step forward". In fact, more often then not, they take a step backwards and thats what makes them good. Look at GTA and Red Dead Redemption. They got rid of the automatic guns, super fast cars, and hectic environment, monumental explosions, and it ended up being a much better game for it.
 

kouriichi

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No_Remainders said:
kouriichi said:
Saying TOR is like WoW is like saying Battlefield is like Call of Duty.
Wrong way around.

Battlefield started it.
Thats besides the point.
Battlefield is more vehicle based then Call of Duty.
CoD is more FPS then Battlefield, like TOR is more RPG then WoW.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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I'm actually amused by the number of people who refuse to acknowledge the possibility that this game is like WoW. I don't really care if it's like WoW myself. If friends play, I'll try it out for a month. If they don't, then I won't bother.
 

Hectix777

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Yeah, pretty much. I'm not a fan of WoW, and I'm praying that there are a few change ups in the formula, but the infrastructure is essentially the same. Hate at WoW for being some kind of Cobra Commander plot to corrupt the youth to do his bidding and a general,"meh,' at Bioware, they've earned my trust. My only complaint is the comparison between the video games and cinematics, it's like going from the actual Star Wars series to the Clone Wars cartoon. wth? I'm praying that all the screen we've been seeing are still beta and they're gonna go back and crank up the graphics to 11.