Analyst Calls The Old Republic a "WoW Clone"

[viranimus]

Well, After watching an hour long plus video of gameplay/story I can honestly say that the game truly does look like a WoWclone equipped with FFXI's cut scene engine and Biowares response wheel.

The problem I am having is that it is a WoWclone in more areas than most wowclones. Even odd little things like the GUI being in that cobalt/shadow blue, but yet certain GUI scroll arrows are in maroon textured buttons with yellow arrows?!

There are more casual similarities to Wow than most wowclones have.

Im not saying it should stop anyone who wants to play, from playing. But I think its important to know what one is getting into before they jump in. There will be plenty of differences from WoW when it is released. Things like the skill trees , story line, moving alignment, etc. But it seems pretty apparent it is going to look, and feel like star wars flavored WoW. And in all likelihood the real thing that is going to make it feel like WoW, will be how the multiplayer aspects of the game will structure themselves to be in the same fashion as WoW. Not from Biowares programming, but from the players enforcing the same doctrines that have been in place since Ultima and EQ and perhaps even back to the MUD days.

I will end up playing it (would love a friggen release date already considering were technically 15 days away from being in 3Q 2011), and for me the interesting part is going to be if the story related gameplay will be able to overpower the WoW-esque feel and my indifference to the star wars mythos. Should be interesting indeed.

 

[Tentickles]

I find people who immediately assume any MMO is like WoW usually are not looking past stuff WoW put into the gaming industry.

For one, WoW is successful therefore why is taking elements of it that work and putting it into other games considered bad? It's like buying a new computer with a new OS and finding out it's the same OS as the old one with different hardware. Get it? The hardware is what made it better not the OS.

Second, There are certain limits to what the gaming industry can do for gamers in MMOs right now. So we are going to have the same basic combat, UI and chat system in almost all these games. The important part is the small changes they make. IE BioWare is putting a lot of attention into its light saber combat, and the sound for said combat.

Third, Talk to NPC, get giant text box, skip text box, press accept, use quest tracker to complete. Sounds utterly boring and players have no emotional interest in these quests. No interest in who, why, when and where behind these quests. From what I've seen and heard SW:TOR's questing and NPC interaction allow for a much more emotional bond to what you are doing.

There are a ton more things I could list but I doubt everyone would sit and read the entire thing.

I have high hopes for BioWare's SW:TOR. The company hasnt disappointed me yet.

Edited to add:
The developers have stated they picked their graphical style for a specific reason. (I love the cartoony-ness honestly.) I believe it went along the line of if they went for realism the game would look like everything else made today and the star wars universe isnt about realism it's about a space fantasy.

 

[rsvp42]

But like Kirov, from what i've seen and learned about the game it's not like wow. Yes I see that it has some similar staples. And that's why their STAPLES things we not only expect from these kinds of games but rage if we don't get them.

Very true. The clone accusation is usually from people who have watched a couple videos here and there, but not much beyond that. Most people informed about the game, even if they don't like it, don't call it a clone. They just talk about why they dislike the trinity or hotkeys or whatever. People see a similar framework, but forget that literally everything in the game is a unique asset. Everything you see, every place you visit, every story you play through is all BioWare's handiwork. All 17 worlds of it. Calling it a clone or a re-skin is just shameful and disrespectful. There are way more accurate and specific ways to criticize the game if you don't like it. Trotting out the clone argument is just sloppy.

 

[rsvp42]

The problem I am having is that it is a WoWclone in more areas than most wowclones. Even odd little things like the GUI being in that cobalt/shadow blue, but yet certain GUI scroll arrows are in maroon textured buttons with yellow arrows?!

I don't recall WoW having a cobalt interface... btw, what video did you watch? Because they recently unveiled an overhauled UI.

There are more casual similarities to Wow than most wowclones have.

Wha? Like even more than the WoW-cloniest of them all, Rift?

• The crafting in TOR is different
  there are player ships
  17 planets
  different art style
  completely different lore
  sci-fi instead of high fantasy
  different classes and abilities
  different approach to gear design
  conversation-driven questing with a focus on class story,
  different group size
  companions
  light-side/dark-side alignment based on conversation and story choices

Oh, wait. It has an ability bar at the bottom of the screen and similar controls in combat. I guess all those new features and differences blinded me to the clone-iness. HOW COULD I HAVE BEEN SUCH A FOOL :[

 

[Firehound]

every MMO is like WoW in some ways

Or most of the ways. It's the path of least resistance. Sure they could build a highly original game, but why not make a clone that sells decently?

 

[Clonekiller]

I'm not an expert by any means, but somehow I have a hard time believing this. Full voiceover, meaning no npc text talking, is unimpressive? Personally, I dont really care about the conversation mechanic as much as I do about the fact that sound will be a requirement to play. (I don't know about anyone else, but I often would listen to something else while I muted WoW, cause sound was unneeded and sometime annoying) In addition, the melee combat engine in TOR is reactive. Sure, it's not as cool looking as the KOTOR one, but the fact that the light sabers actually move to block incoming attacks, be it ranged or melee, is huge, especially by MMO standards. It sounds like this reviewer was expecting this game to be a Mass Effect 3. It won't revolutionize gaming, and it probably won't have a huge impact on the MMO genre. However, from what I have seen and experienced, it will be one of the best attempts at a completely immersive world we have ever seen in the MMO genre.

 

[viranimus]

I don't recall WoW having a cobalt interface...

Sorry, I that was a misread. That was meant to be read as the ToR interface is all set in cobalt/blue. The strange part is that even though it the theme is blue they decided on at the time red arrow buttons the exact same color as WoWs menu with the same yellow/white font.

There are more casual similarities to Wow than most wowclones have.

Bolding to direct respond.

Wha? Like even more than the WoW-cloniest of them all, Rift?

• The crafting in TOR is different Good. Its about time, cause it was tired when EQ used it.
  there are player ships Like a slightly interactive rental winged mount?
  17 planets Just like wow's "Regions"
  different art style That looks very similar to WoW
  completely different lore I should hope so
  sci-fi instead of high fantasy Same themes prevail across genre
  different classes and abilities Which are little more than renaming the exact same things. A priest is a healer is a cleric is a medic. doesn't matter what its called
  different approach to gear design aesthetics that have no actual impact on gameplay
  conversation-driven questing with a focus on class story, The foundation of what is different about ToR. Good for Bioware.
  different group size Insignificant difference, a group is a group.
  companions You mean like what FFXI and Everquest 1 have?
  light-side/dark-side alignment based on conversation and story choices

Ahh so the ability to modify factions between a choice of 2? Guess that is different than WoW, and more limited than the 50+ factions present in EQ.

Oh, wait. It has an ability bar at the bottom of the screen and similar controls in combat. I guess all those new features and differences blinded me to the clone-iness. HOW COULD I HAVE BEEN SUCH A FOOL :[

Animations are similar, It flows in a familiar fashion, You repeat the same sort of clicks and the "attacks" follow similar patterns such as "next strike buff" then unleash powered next strike techniques or Begin melee with ranged rush attack. Your corner quest completion reminders 0/5 fetch quest required items completed. These are just a small snippet of the similarities that have been shown thus far. Granted, the released game will likely be different in things like the GUI. But it doesnt matter where the "action bar" is, those changes on contingencies are purely cosmetic and dont reduce its "clone-iness"

Now, I would ask that instead of looking for ways to be offended and assuming everyone who says something negative about it hasnt actually looked into the matter, try realizing that by saying its a WoWclone does not mean it is a WoW facsimile. All "clones" deviate from their source. I have no doubt in my mind that ToR will stand on its own merits once its released. However with what has been presented & leaked thus far has not illustrated much effort to try to dispel all the talk of "WoWclone" that has been persistent at least for the last year. With it being this close to release, that worries me. If it plays like WoW, its unlikely the dialog will interest me enough to endure WoWs tedious gameplay mechanics.

 

[loc978]

New mechanics and a different universe set to a similar playstyle. That doesn't make the game a "clone" of WoW any more than WoW is a "clone" of EverQuest. The Old Republic is pulling elements from Eve (offline progression), City of Heroes (activated combat with no "normal" attack), and probably a number of other games as well (such as anything else built on the Hero Engine).

Spoiler: Here are your progressive similarities, and they are mostly visual

Spoiler: EverQuest controls

Spoiler: CoH controls

Spoiler: WoW controls

Spoiler: ToR controls

 

[Sean Deli]

Oh, wow. Defending copy-paste of WoW mechanics using "it's a MMO, stupid, of course it is like WoW"?!! Really?!!

Look up Eve-Online. 50 000 (fifty thousand) people on the same server AT THE SAME TIME, and 90% of the game has nothing in common with WoW.

Look up DC Universe online. Quests are WoW-esque, but the fighting system is completely different from "point-click_attack-click_ability-wait_for_the_target_to_die"

I mean, so far the combat system of TOR looked mind-numbingly boring. No micro, no flashy graphics, nothing of redeeming value.
Class mechanics and character customization - bo-o-o-o-ring. "Choose Darth Vader clone for tank, choose Darth Maul clone for spank, choose Boba Fett clone for rogue"
Quests - will have to see. The problem of freedom of choice quests in an MMO is that MMO is a one world. So either everything is player driven (like Eve:O) or nothing is(like pretty much every other MMO), that seems to be the only way to retain consistency. Otherwise people will be playing in one server, but in different (parallel) versions of the same universe.
Lore? Love a game for it's lore value is a definition of a fan-boy. Not of the game - of the underlying universe, and I don't think there are enough SW fan-base to populate the player-base of a new MMO - again, look at DC Universe. People expected every comic fan to rush and buy a copy, but DCUO proved that huge old-fan base and conversion rate of fans to players means nothing if you can't retain them with interesting game mechanics, that keep people playing past the first month.

This game will flop. This game will so flop.

 

[Vibhor]

Its a WoW clone because WoW has everything a "good" MMO needs. The only thing that has to be experienced is the story and other bullshit.
Also, bioware was never the gameplay expert.

 

[Nicolairigel]

First of all, I'm glad to hear that this game is a soon-to-fail wow clone. That sounds a lot harsher than intended, I love Bioware and I love Kotor, and I love World of Warcraft. But thats just it. I love kotor to death and consider it one of my favorite game series of all time next to mass effect, bioshock, and half life because of it's dialogue and single-player feel to it. I can't see the same bioware spark happening in an MMO. For the lovagod, I know a lot of people have said this, just make Kotor 3. Second, there seems to be A LOT of hate for WoW on all gaming sites. It's the same deal with cod. I don't understand why, really. It has a very interesting lore, awesome environments.and an all-around terrific art style. I know, I know, I am acting like a fanboy right now, but in cata a large amount of the boring fetch and kill this number of creature quest have gone down, and when there is one they present them in such a good way. i just tried rift, and while it looks good and has some interesting ideas, it is in many ways a shameless rip-off of WoW. And please, don't say "All mmo have a WoW element that blizzard didn't create" because while that is true, there is a god-damned limit on how much you can copy. At least guild wars 2 seems like it is taking a step in the right direction. But basically, as Extra Credits has said, your not going to kill WoW with a WoW copy, you are going to need 2 take a few innovative risks.

 

[Stevepinto3]

I find it a bit of a strange accusation considering WoW's gameplay is basically an adaption of standard RPG games that came before it. You know, the kind that were made by, say, Bioware? Yeah.

That being said I could kind of tell this was going to get said a lot. Why? Because we say it about every mmo. Rift, Aion, Warhammer, Age of Conan, whatever. Yes, they stick to a standard formula. So do a lot of first person shooters, but we moved past calling everything Call of Duty clo-oh wait. We still do that.

Also, does anyone know if it sticks to the tank-healer-dps group tactics? Considering heroics and raids were basically the only thing keeping me going in WoW towards the end, it would be nice if TOR changed things up.

 

[rsvp42]

The strange part is that even though it the theme is blue they decided on at the time red arrow buttons the exact same color as WoWs menu with the same yellow/white font.

Yeah, but it's no longer the case. I doubt that was ever intended as a final UI.

The crafting in TOR is different Good. Its about time, cause it was tired when EQ used it.

Probably should specify that "different" is in how it handles. You assign members of the crew to craft items while you play (and while you're offline). More bullet-points and info here, if you're curious.

there are player ships Like a slightly interactive rental winged mount?

No, like a ship that takes you to different planets and acts as a home for you and your companions. Think the Normandy from Mass Effect.

17 planets Just like wow's "Regions"

Depends what you mean. For example, Alderaan is reportedly the equivalent of 7 or 8 WoW zones. Planets in TOR are apparently quite large.

different art style That looks very similar to WoW

Except better. And not the same.
WoW
TOR

completely different lore I should hope so
sci-fi instead of high fantasy Same themes prevail across genre

But undeniably different, more evidence of not being a clone.

different classes and abilities Which are little more than renaming the exact same things. A priest is a healer is a cleric is a medic. doesn't matter what its called

In some cases, you might be close to correct. For instance, the Assassin (one of the Advanced Classes for the Sith Inquisitor story) plays similarly to a Rogue. However, my play time with the Sniper (Imperial Agent advanced class), was unlike any class in WoW. There are some comparisons, but none are the same. Consulars (light cloth wearers) can be ranged Force users with healing abilities, but spec'd differently they can be viable tanks using force powers. Different from the Jedi Guardian, which can also tank. Troopers can be like combat medics, but also ranged dps or tanks, all based on how you specialize. I think you get the idea.

different approach to gear design aesthetics that have no actual impact on gameplay

Still different, which was the point of my post.

companions You mean like what FFXI and Everquest 1 have?

I thought TOR was being called a WoW clone. Companions are different from WoW. Yet another reason it's not a clone. Besides, do FFXI and EQ's companions have story like the companions in other BioWare games? That's what we're talking here.

light-side/dark-side alignment based on conversation and story choices[/list] Ahh so the ability to modify factions between a choice of 2? Guess that is different than WoW, and more limited than the 50+ factions present in EQ.

No your faction is either Sith Empire or Republic. Your light-side/dark-side alignment is based on what you do in the story. You can be ruthless Jedi fighting for the Republic or an Imperial Agent that tries to protect instead of always killing, etc. Up to you. Classes are tied to the faction though.

Animations are similar, It flows in a familiar fashion, You repeat the same sort of clicks and the "attacks" follow similar patterns such as "next strike buff" then unleash powered next strike techniques or Begin melee with ranged rush attack. Your corner quest completion reminders 0/5 fetch quest required items completed. These are just a small snippet of the similarities that have been shown thus far. Granted, the released game will likely be different in things like the GUI. But it doesnt matter where the "action bar" is, those changes on contingencies are purely cosmetic and dont reduce its "clone-iness"

Animations are similar? They're completely different. Yeah there might be some sword-swinging motions that look similar, but that's called swinging a sword. I heard TOR has walking too, which is scandalous. Seriously though, you're pointing out things like objective tracking here. A great many games track objectives like this, that's just part of making a useful HUD.

Now, I would ask that instead of looking for ways to be offended and assuming everyone who says something negative about it hasnt actually looked into the matter, try realizing that by saying its a WoWclone does not mean it is a WoW facsimile. All "clones" deviate from their source. I have no doubt in my mind that ToR will stand on its own merits once its released. However with what has been presented & leaked thus far has not illustrated much effort to try to dispel all the talk of "WoWclone" that has been persistent at least for the last year. With it being this close to release, that worries me. If it plays like WoW, its unlikely the dialog will interest me enough to endure WoWs tedious gameplay mechanics.

I'm not offended, I'm simply pointing out the inconsistencies in the "clone" accusation and how it doesn't quite line up with reality.

It's interesting that you're now distinguishing between "clone":

one that appears to be a copy of an original form

and "facsimile":

an exact copy

Obviously TOR isn't an exact copy, but it doesn't even appear to be an exact copy, hence my deep confusion with the term "WoW-clone" in this situation. I mean, even if I hated this game, I wouldn't blindly call it a clone. I would just say why I didn't like it and leave it at that.

Now, don't get me wrong. I understand the concerns with the game. A lot of people played WoW for a long time and got burnt out. TOR has a similar combat system and many have decided that they don't like that system anymore. That's perfectly fine. Many people don't like loot-centric games. Also fine. It's very true that TOR and WoW share the same fundamentals that many themepark MMOs have been built on. But sharing fundamentals is not "cloning." That's all I'm saying.

 

[Sigma Van Lockheart]

Wait so are WoW graphics breath taking and amazing? Cause I don?t remember them being that good. Yes I?ll admit The Old Republic does not look great but still neither does WoW.

 

[rsvp42]

Oh, wow. Defending copy-paste of WoW mechanics using "it's a MMO, stupid, of course it is like WoW"?!! Really?!!

Look up Eve-Online. 50 000 (fifty thousand) people on the same server AT THE SAME TIME, and 90% of the game has nothing in common with WoW.

Look up DC Universe online. Quests are WoW-esque, but the fighting system is completely different from "point-click_attack-click_ability-wait_for_the_target_to_die"

Yeah but Eve is an open-flight space-sim sandbox, right? And DCUO is a superhero MMO. WoW is a high fantasy themepark MMO.

TOR is a themepark MMO sequel to KoTOR and KoTOR's combat was basically d20, roll-to-hit kind of stuff. Comparing it to Eve is meaningless, and comparing it to DCUO is odd because a superhero MMO has to have highly-mobile combat to fit the setting and characters. I'm not saying TOR couldn't benefit from some more dynamic combat elements, but it is a logical successor to the combat of KoTOR, if you think about it.

 

[freaper]

I facepalmed so hard when I read this that my forehead is still throbbing.

Since when is an MMO NOT compared to WoW? Also the paint doesn't look very fresh to me.

 

[Henrik Stavenes]

Wait, didn't someone provlaim the exact same thing last year? And didn't everyone go: "well no shit, Sherlock." that time as well?

 

[Loonerinoes]

This link summarizes all my feelings on both fanboys of SWTOR, that project unrealistic expectations onto the title, as well as on 'hard-hitting critics' who, after reading them for months now, 90% of the time don't do their goddamned research for their opinion pieces properly and instead project THEIR OWN elitist delusions all the while claiming they speak for the 'silent majority' or some other feeble excuse.


TL;DR

You all don't fucking know.

 

[The_Emperor]

WoW is totally an everquest clone....Which is totally a D&D clone...Which is totally a lord of the rings interactive story with dice clone...Which is totally a legends of ye olde europe clone...

we could go back thousands of years.

Warhammer online was a WoW clone and I effing loved it, because it was Warhammer.
Aslong as the action is good and the levels are well designed and its not too repetitive and grindy then fine, I'll probs try it.