Anonymous Attacks US Government
- Thread starter Logan Westbrook
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Think about it, for a second, and I mean REALLY THINK ABOUT IT: If the US government actually did cave into anonymous, what would happen? Let's see:
1) Goodbye every single software company in the US. Since all your code is freely available and able to be copied, why would make a single cent? That's a couple of hundred thousand jobs gone right there. Anonymous would feel REALLY PROUD of themselves, ruining all those lives if they get their way, right?
2) Goodbye every single Biomedical, biotech, and pharmaceutical company in the US! With your formula's and compounds no longer protected by law, every single generic chemical factory can make your drugs, and you get NOTHING FOR THEM! That's REALLLLLY going to give incentive to investors and scientists to do the research, right! I can imagine the sales pitch now: Hey, want to spend decades of your life and billions of other people's money to make a drug that will give you zero return?! You would! Great! It also comes with no salary!
3) Goodbye openness and progress, HELLOOOOOOO corporate secrets and espionage! Good to have you back! Without the patent system, NO ONE will EVER divulge how their stuff works or how to make it! Which is really swell since that results in monopolies and the breakdown of shared research! Instead of waiting 20 years for new inventions to wear out their patent, now, since they are no patents, they'll ALWAYS be secret because no company will ever divulge ANYTHING TO ANYONE, EVER! Which will really be great because that means that people in poorer nations will never be able to make generic versions of anything! Fantastic, Anonymous, if you get your way, you'll kill millions! Bravo!
4) Goodbye High-tech industries, agri-tech industries, engineering firms, software companies, silicon valley in its entirety, aeronautical firms, publishing companies, movie studios, and of course GAME STUDIOS, if Anonymous get their way.
To all you Anonymous supporters... how old are you? I mean really? Because I get the impression that you're nothing but a bunch of really angry, socially inept teens without a shred of sophistication or understanding of how the world actually works. I don't think you really think about the consequences of what you are proposing. I don't think you have a SHRED of understanding on economic or industrial values. I don't think you even know what the purpose of a patent is! And certainly, CERTAINLY, NONE of you are creators or researchers or writers or makers of anything. Again, don't want to get all Ayn Rand on you (because I don't like Ayn Rand), but people who are opposed to copyright are generally leeches who want something for nothing. Who don't create or write or invent, but just use and use and use and use and use. So of course you're against copy-right - you've never invented or made anything that could be copy-righted. It's only natural that they don't understand the worth of what they seek to steal.
1) Goodbye every single software company in the US. Since all your code is freely available and able to be copied, why would make a single cent? That's a couple of hundred thousand jobs gone right there. Anonymous would feel REALLY PROUD of themselves, ruining all those lives if they get their way, right?
2) Goodbye every single Biomedical, biotech, and pharmaceutical company in the US! With your formula's and compounds no longer protected by law, every single generic chemical factory can make your drugs, and you get NOTHING FOR THEM! That's REALLLLLY going to give incentive to investors and scientists to do the research, right! I can imagine the sales pitch now: Hey, want to spend decades of your life and billions of other people's money to make a drug that will give you zero return?! You would! Great! It also comes with no salary!
3) Goodbye openness and progress, HELLOOOOOOO corporate secrets and espionage! Good to have you back! Without the patent system, NO ONE will EVER divulge how their stuff works or how to make it! Which is really swell since that results in monopolies and the breakdown of shared research! Instead of waiting 20 years for new inventions to wear out their patent, now, since they are no patents, they'll ALWAYS be secret because no company will ever divulge ANYTHING TO ANYONE, EVER! Which will really be great because that means that people in poorer nations will never be able to make generic versions of anything! Fantastic, Anonymous, if you get your way, you'll kill millions! Bravo!
4) Goodbye High-tech industries, agri-tech industries, engineering firms, software companies, silicon valley in its entirety, aeronautical firms, publishing companies, movie studios, and of course GAME STUDIOS, if Anonymous get their way.
To all you Anonymous supporters... how old are you? I mean really? Because I get the impression that you're nothing but a bunch of really angry, socially inept teens without a shred of sophistication or understanding of how the world actually works. I don't think you really think about the consequences of what you are proposing. I don't think you have a SHRED of understanding on economic or industrial values. I don't think you even know what the purpose of a patent is! And certainly, CERTAINLY, NONE of you are creators or researchers or writers or makers of anything. Again, don't want to get all Ayn Rand on you (because I don't like Ayn Rand), but people who are opposed to copyright are generally leeches who want something for nothing. Who don't create or write or invent, but just use and use and use and use and use. So of course you're against copy-right - you've never invented or made anything that could be copy-righted. It's only natural that they don't understand the worth of what they seek to steal.
Is anyone else starting to get the impression that DDOS attacks are really the only thing Anonymous CAN do? That's like, a gradeschool bully only picking on kids in wheelchairs because he can't even take on a healthy kid.
These random nobodies can talk all they want, they can shut down a site nobody cares about for a whole 30 minutes, stopping the whole two people who actually visit it, but what's the point? Their voices don't get heard, they're just a minor annoyance. A two-inch high speedbump on a gravel road already dotted with foot-tall rocks. Big deal.
These random nobodies can talk all they want, they can shut down a site nobody cares about for a whole 30 minutes, stopping the whole two people who actually visit it, but what's the point? Their voices don't get heard, they're just a minor annoyance. A two-inch high speedbump on a gravel road already dotted with foot-tall rocks. Big deal.
I need more information. Right now it sounds like a typical Anonymous attack 'we're pissed and we want to level up our internet cocks'. Do they have an actual menifesto which they will release, detailing how they want the organisation to change for the better? Have they considered the ramifications on a wider scale (probably that this will make the US government angry, an act that I am given to understand is very very stupid.)
More info please.
More info please.
_tinned_magpie_ said:
Actually Anonymous has the right idea, you have to be willing to take on the goverment to get anything done as far as society is concerned. If you just figure "oh well, we/I will annoy the goverment I should give up or they will crush me" then your basicaly conceding to tyranny. Our right to keep and bear arms is specifically intended so we can go after politicians and the like with firearms if they need was to arise.
Anonymous is simply doing things differantly, fighting for information issues through information networks.
Let me be blunt about something though, I support free speech heavily, and I think the game and music industries are a bunch of crooks who do not operate within the American spirit of capitolism. The game industry in paticular acts like a cartel.
On the other hand Anonymous attacking the copyrights office seems to be going a little too far, largely because I *DO* support the right to patent actual products and ideas. I understand that the copyrights are a big part of this entire battle, but I'd think groups like the FCC and paticular politicians and industry leaders would be better targets. Of course then again I'm viewing this from outside, not fighting the war, and as I've said before, this kind of civil law issue is hardly my specialty.
I don't support piracy, but at the same time I don't support the industry against it. As odd as that sounds, it's a simple matter of me feeling that both sides are crooks, and in the final equasion neither have the best interests of me, the gamer, at heart. Stealing games so the people making them can't make money doesn't encourage their development. At the same time running the industry to constantly gouge the consumer, and engaging in illegal and immoral business practices to do so hurts the consumers.
In the end I tend to feel that the conflict between the industry and pirates is a symbiotic one where they both cause each other to exist as problems. The gaming industry by being greedy, abusing customers (hi Mr. Kotick), and engaging in a lot of it's current practices (DRM, DLC Gouging, etc...) causes pirates to flourish, it's hard to feel guilty when your robbing a bunch of arrogant crooks. By the same token the industry claims that it needs to act like it does because of the piracy and uses the piracy as a "catch all" excuse to justify it's behavior.... and let's be honest, whie it was smaller to begin with the war between pirates and the gaming industry has always been there to some extent. It's simply got bigger as the market has grown. There was all kinds of odd stuff going on in this regard back in the days of the "Commodore 64" and "Apple 2", and video games were never exactly cheap. Even back with the "Atari 2600" I remember as a little kid understanding how crazy the price of a game like "Yar's Revenge" was.
Show me an open source, copy-right free group that can create chips that can rival what Intel produces. Show me a developed economy that doesn't protect inventors. Show me advanced technology built by people who don't want a cent in return. Show me new anti-retroviral drugs that are tested and researched for over 20 years, produced by teens in their mom's basement.
A lot of these anonymous people are just teens in their mom or dad's basement, who write little bits of code or do indie games and thus, they have the arrogant assumption that just because they can write code for free (and not very good code at that), all code should be free all the time.
But that way of thinking is shallow and stupid. Advanced biological research requires millions if not BILLIONS of dollars. I would know - I do biological research. I have a degree in Biotech, which means that I also understand how the biotech industry operates (they make you take a few business courses and do a few PDPs, that's Product Development Proposals by the way). Simply put, you cannot have an "Open source" biotech industry. The amount and quality of reagents that we require is enormous. The costs associated with our research is similarly ENORMOUS. You cannot do PCR reactions in your mom's basement (well, not clean, reliable PCR reactions). You cannot clone plasmids or do electroporation in your dad's attic. It requires LABS, it requires MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN EQUIPMENT.
SOMEONE MUST FOOT THE BILL! SOMEONE MUST PAY FOR THAT! And that is WHY we need investors, who would LIKE to see a RETURN ON THEIR INVESTMENT! Got that genius! That is WHY we need PATENTS and WHY WE NEED COPYRIGHT!
The only alternative is to let the government fund every single medical or biological project. The only alternative to the patent/copyright system, is to let the government fund everything with your tax dollars. Would you like that? I didn't think so.
A lot of these anonymous people are just teens in their mom or dad's basement, who write little bits of code or do indie games and thus, they have the arrogant assumption that just because they can write code for free (and not very good code at that), all code should be free all the time.
But that way of thinking is shallow and stupid. Advanced biological research requires millions if not BILLIONS of dollars. I would know - I do biological research. I have a degree in Biotech, which means that I also understand how the biotech industry operates (they make you take a few business courses and do a few PDPs, that's Product Development Proposals by the way). Simply put, you cannot have an "Open source" biotech industry. The amount and quality of reagents that we require is enormous. The costs associated with our research is similarly ENORMOUS. You cannot do PCR reactions in your mom's basement (well, not clean, reliable PCR reactions). You cannot clone plasmids or do electroporation in your dad's attic. It requires LABS, it requires MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN EQUIPMENT.
SOMEONE MUST FOOT THE BILL! SOMEONE MUST PAY FOR THAT! And that is WHY we need investors, who would LIKE to see a RETURN ON THEIR INVESTMENT! Got that genius! That is WHY we need PATENTS and WHY WE NEED COPYRIGHT!
The only alternative is to let the government fund every single medical or biological project. The only alternative to the patent/copyright system, is to let the government fund everything with your tax dollars. Would you like that? I didn't think so.
If I remember correctly, a DoS attack will utilize other IP's to make them attempt to connect to the site instead of directly connecting. It allows them to create a large quantity of connections that will slow or disable the site.arc1991 said:Can't they be tracked with an IP address or something? Jeez!
Although respect to them, if they say they will do something, they will do it at least lol.
question...if they attacked us, how would we know?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDoS#Distributed_attack
It has some good info.
Myself - if they're planning to take to the streets after doing this... doesn't that kind of make them likely to be, I dunno, arrested? Come on guys, think about it. Protest first, THEN do your illegal activity.
Well you can't change anything by running from the goverment, it has to be taken on for anything meaningful to happen.MelasZepheos said:
As far as long-term planning goes, I think Anonymous' attitude is more along the lines of the current system being wrong, and that if they tear it down, the big heads will eventually find a way of putting something into force that they will be able to live with. Either that or leave information totally unregulated at all, which is not a bad thing overall IMO, while there are down sides, I feel the pros are going to greatly outweigh the cons.
As far as the goverment actions against Anonymous, I think it's like fighting any other insurgency (and they even use that term). The US goverment has a real problem doing what is nessicary in cases like that, and I think that a goverment that can't even manage to stick to it's guns with things like "gitmo" and "the Partiot Act" without backing down to goverment outcry is going to have trouble taking hardcore action against a bunch of hackers.
Not to mention the fact that Anonymous seems to be both very numerous, and global. Even if they catch some of these guys, I'm sure there are going to be plenty of them operating outside of the US. The goverment had trouble dealing with people running scams using "you won a contest" as a gimmick to trick people to call paid phone numbers in other countries that charged like $1000.00 a minute and things like that. Not to mention all the scams that still take place out of countries like Nigeria where people still manage to lose thousands of dollars.
The bottom line is that the extradition problems alone are going to make them nearly impossible to deal with I'd imagine. I mean if the goverment can't isolate a country like Nigeria from the global information exchange with their infamous con-men and scams, what makes you think they are going to be able to effectively do it over hacker attacks like this, and that's pretty much what it would take.
.. and again, as I mentioned, with purely domestic Anons (and I figure most are in the US) there is going to be an outcry over these guys being arrested en-masse and such, not to mention the tactics needed to catch them. I mean if people freak out about the goverment wire tapping/hacking/spying on suspected terrorists and then arresting them based on information gathered in those investigations, how do you expect they are going to arrest to an Anonymous crackdown? Anonymous has yet to blow anything up or even kill anyone that we know of.
Such are my thoughts.
This is pretty much exactly what I said a couple of days ago on a piracy thread. The best point is that anon is likely devoid of any creative types. Writers, artists of any type deserve ownership of their creations, pirates (and these anons) can't sympathize with that and just want things for free.Korolev said:
Wish they'd push for reversal of the old extension of exclusive ownership prior to works being entered in the public domain as opposed to just plain "pro-piracy". A more reasonable claim holds some chance of getting shit done, or at least opening up public debate.
Plus, then they'd be hoping for a sustainable outcome.
Plus, then they'd be hoping for a sustainable outcome.
This seems appropriate...
"Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"
I don't agree with the overzealous nature of certain Copyright software and anti-piracy measures, but at the same time I'm going into the design industry and want to know my own creative works arn't going to get ripped off and leave me no way of earning my living.
"Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"
I don't agree with the overzealous nature of certain Copyright software and anti-piracy measures, but at the same time I'm going into the design industry and want to know my own creative works arn't going to get ripped off and leave me no way of earning my living.