Bashing the P0rnz

[Gentile]

Actually, very actor/actress is pre-screened before each and every scene (unless done by a smalltime/incommpetant studio) and they actually make a decent living. If you enjoy sex that much I don't see the problem with it.

It's nice that they take precautions to prevent the spread of STI's. Too bad they don't take precations to prevent the cause of STI's.

 

[RaphaelsRedemption]

Ok, thanks for expanding. However, while you have given me a list of concerns that may be related to the prevalence of porn, you haven't really explained what you would do with porn. Even if it is directly responsible for all those concerns, would you ban porn? Would you make it illegal? What are you going to do about it?

As far as I can tell from your posts, you are very worried about porn, particularly on young people today, and on the effect it may have on their behaviour. You seem to be discussing this on this forum - maybe to educate people about the negative follow-on effects of viewing porn?

I could argue each concern is not directly the result of viewing porn. But, I going to assume each one is true. Even if it is so, how do we handle something without limiting people's freedoms? If a person is old enough to make decisions for themselves, who are we to dictate what they can and cannot view? I know of some places that do this. One of them is called China. Are you really advocating we take an approach of censoring everything that we personally do not agree with?

Are you advocating scare tactics? Tell people just how bad viewing porn can be for them? Thats commendable (assuming, of course, you really can link porn to issues such as abortion and STD's). However, history will show us that such tactics are usually ineffective. People know smoking is bad for them. However, there are still smokers. You may find a similar effect if a large-scale scare compaign against porn is put into motion.

So, before I go further, what would you do? I know I take responsibility for myself and regulate my own viewing habits, but I would be profoundly uncomfortable with making such decisions for others.

I find freedom to be inherently neutral. Freedom allows for people to pursue good for their own delight as well as evil. Although I do believe that freedom counteracts people's tolerance because it creates a society where there is a huge spectrum of people with voices on ethical values. But, I do believe that there is absolute truth out there no matter how many people seem to disagree with it. That being said, I don't really want to do anything on a large scale. Posting my opinion on The Escapist boards is probably as far as i'm going. I just deal with it on a case-by-case basis with people who I meet. You can shove as many pros and cons as you'd like at people, but as long as they feel an attachment and desire for something - there's no way they're giving it up. Which is why I don't really like to do anything on the large scale for the time being.

As for you. Thanks for the open discussion. :]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you're a Christian.

And "absolute truth" therefore means "a commandment of God backed up by natural law".

I hav no problems with this. But you haven't mentioned this "absolute truth" before, preferring to cite negative issues which may be connected to the viewing of porn.

I honestly think you would have been better served by putting your main reason first, and then mentioning issues you believe are consequences of porn.

As a Catholic, I know we believe that sex is a gift. It is meant to be shared between husband and wife within the sacrament of marriage.

Porn is not a good thing because:

A. It involves people having sex outside of marriage.

B. It is degrading to the fundamental dignity of human beings.

C. It portrays sex as a casual activity, not as a sacred gift.

D. It often leads to masturbation, which in itself is considered wrong by the Catholic Church.

E. It promotes a selfish view of sex, as something to relieve one's own urges, without considering the other uses of sex, such as an expression of love between spouses and the means of procreation.

I could go on, but you can see my reasons for not approving of porn personally are quite different to yours, and that I express them in a very different way.

I would also like to emphasise that while I believe this to be true, and I am happy to share my views, I would not ever want to enforce them on others who do not hold the same beliefs.

 

[Gentile]

I have been exposed to quite a lot of porn yet while I was with my girlfriend I knew quite how to be intimate. How exactly is it thrown around easily? I think you're making teenagers sound dumber and more easily influenced than they are.

How many girlfriends have you had?

Why do you ask? Does it make any difference on the intimacy we've shared? This seems like a trick question (if I think about it):
Too many girlfriends and I'm terrible in relationships and therefore have no right to talk about it. Too little girlfriends and I've not enough experience to talk about the subject, both of which are untrue.

So please, justify why the number of girlfriends I've had makes any difference.

Too many girlfriends, and too many intimacies wasted. Nobody would like to go through a breakup.
Too little girlfriends, and if you're wise enough - you may learn a thing or two from peers who are in relationships. So that you may be ready when it's your time. You're not alone in the world. Go live vicariously once in a while. It helps.

 

[FallenJellyDoughnut]

Violent crime is down. People are waiting longer to get pregnant. Condoms are more available than ever.

Sex is the most natural thing in the world. Wanting to fuck as much as you can as often as you can is in our DNA.

There is no problem here.

This, and I would also like to state that in the porn industry they make you do a lot of health checks before you can even see whoever it is you'll be plowing (or being plowed by)

 

[AugustFall]

snip

I guess the emotional/intimate aspect of sex is easily thrown around these days.

Discuss.

I see this a lot on this site. People saying the magic of being intimate with your partner is gone or whatever. You can wait until marraige and only have sex on a bed of roses if you like, that's fine. Why do you think sex should only be emotional and why do think everyone should subscribe to that?

genuinely interested ^

 

[Gentile]

Don't be absurd, of course not.

I'm afraid that this is the opposite of fucked up. This is completely logical and practical. The more we have control over, the less chaos there is the world. And the less chaos, the better.

I sincerely hope this make sense. If it does not make sense, I will be happy to elaborate any point in greater detail. Just say the word.

Have you considered that humans possess an Emotional Quotient just as much as an Intelligence Quotient?

Or are you saying that emotions are inherently bad.

 

[insaneHoshi]

<youtube=Y4kwk5jV2nU&feature=related>

my 2 cents (canadian)

 

[OptimisticPessimist]

Wow. I just...wow. Dude. That's kinda fucked up. I could kinda see where you're coming from, but at the same time I can't. Just out of curiosity, have you ever had sex?

Don't be absurd, of course not.

I'm afraid that this is the opposite of fucked up. This is completely logical and practical. The more we have control over, the less chaos there is the world. And the less chaos, the better.

I sincerely hope this make sense.

No, it doesn't. The most glaring problem I see is that if you've never had sex, what the fuck do you think qualifies you to make that kind of judgement call? The other is that you're talking about taking out one of the best parts of life! I mean, I just cannot imagine a world without sex, but I'm guessing it'd be something shallow and sterile. Sex isn't just a means of reproduction or a source of pleasure, although it serves admirably for both. It's also a level of intimacy that transcends what one feels on a day to day basis. It's a connection, it binds people together. Sex is a celebration of the very things that make us human! To talk so casually, so coldly about just getting rid of that is monsterous. It's inhuman. It's frankly terrifying.

 

[OptimisticPessimist]

Look at all these crazy people talking about having the government regulate sex and removing our sex drives.

Sex is fun, porn doesn't destroy intimacy.

Gamecheckuno.

Well stated, my friend.

 

[Gentile]

Ok, thanks for expanding. However, while you have given me a list of concerns that may be related to the prevalence of porn, you haven't really explained what you would do with porn. Even if it is directly responsible for all those concerns, would you ban porn? Would you make it illegal? What are you going to do about it?

As far as I can tell from your posts, you are very worried about porn, particularly on young people today, and on the effect it may have on their behaviour. You seem to be discussing this on this forum - maybe to educate people about the negative follow-on effects of viewing porn?

I could argue each concern is not directly the result of viewing porn. But, I going to assume each one is true. Even if it is so, how do we handle something without limiting people's freedoms? If a person is old enough to make decisions for themselves, who are we to dictate what they can and cannot view? I know of some places that do this. One of them is called China. Are you really advocating we take an approach of censoring everything that we personally do not agree with?

Are you advocating scare tactics? Tell people just how bad viewing porn can be for them? Thats commendable (assuming, of course, you really can link porn to issues such as abortion and STD's). However, history will show us that such tactics are usually ineffective. People know smoking is bad for them. However, there are still smokers. You may find a similar effect if a large-scale scare compaign against porn is put into motion.

So, before I go further, what would you do? I know I take responsibility for myself and regulate my own viewing habits, but I would be profoundly uncomfortable with making such decisions for others.

I find freedom to be inherently neutral. Freedom allows for people to pursue good for their own delight as well as evil. Although I do believe that freedom counteracts people's tolerance because it creates a society where there is a huge spectrum of people with voices on ethical values. But, I do believe that there is absolute truth out there no matter how many people seem to disagree with it. That being said, I don't really want to do anything on a large scale. Posting my opinion on The Escapist boards is probably as far as i'm going. I just deal with it on a case-by-case basis with people who I meet. You can shove as many pros and cons as you'd like at people, but as long as they feel an attachment and desire for something - there's no way they're giving it up. Which is why I don't really like to do anything on the large scale for the time being.

As for you. Thanks for the open discussion. :]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you're a Christian.

And "absolute truth" therefore means "a commandment of God backed up by natural law".

I hav no problems with this. But you haven't mentioned this "absolute truth" before, preferring to cite negative issues which may be connected to the viewing of porn.

I honestly think you would have been better served by putting your main reason first, and then mentioning issues you believe are consequences of porn.

As a Catholic, I know we believe that sex is a gift. It is meant to be shared between husband and wife within the sacrament of marriage.

Porn is not a good thing because:

A. It involves people having sex outside of marriage.

B. It is degrading to the fundamental dignity of human beings.

C. It portrays sex as a casual activity, not as a sacred gift.

D. It often leads to masturbation, which in itself is considered wrong by the Catholic Church.

E. It promotes a selfish view of sex, as something to relieve one's own urges, without considering the other uses of sex, such as an expression of love between spouses and the means of procreation.

I could go on, but you can see my reasons for not approving of porn personally are quite different to yours, and that I express them in a very different way.

I would also like to emphasise that while I believe this to be true, and I am happy to share my views, I would not ever want to enforce them on others who do not hold the same beliefs.

Spot on. I'm a devout evangelical Christian. I started this thread with a broad opening paragraph just to see people's opinion on the topic. I didn't want to give all the facts straight away because I rather enjoy open ended discussions. Even if there are many comments which I can't get to.

A. Yes, but what can I do about that? People believe that it is perfectly ethical to do so these days.

B. I would say that it probably has influenced more than a few people to forget what love truly is and only see it as love for a sexual partner. That "meat inserted into orifice" idea that some people may have of love springs to mind lol.

C. Again, casual sex is a norm already. Freedom speaks.

D. The act isn't, but the thoughts associated with it are - according to mainstream Protestant's interpretation of scripture. But we won't get into that for now.

E. Spot on again.

Who says I have different views on this topic? The only thing we will likely disagree on are doctrinal issues as well as Theology. But again - that would be off topic.

 

[Gentile]

I see this a lot on this site. People saying the magic of being intimate with your partner is gone or whatever. You can wait until marraige and only have sex on a bed of roses if you like, that's fine. Why do you think sex should only be emotional and why do think everyone should subscribe to that?

genuinely interested ^

I'm one of those people who believes that the next time he sees a naked woman would be his future wife. And that she would be worth the wait. Because you know - I like to not get divorced in the future. One of the failings of my parents.

That's how I work towards that goal aite? Cool. Just a little case of "in my opinion" - y'know. :]

 

[Gentile]

The original thought is that chaotic and unchecked birthrates is going to leave our planet dry. Since adequate space travel is turning out to be a pipe dream, it doesn't look as though we will be able to spread to other planets and use those resources. Controlled birth rates suit both situations of both discovering and not discovering quick space travel. But unfortunately, we cannot control birth rates through artificial reproduction as long as humans are able to reproduce on their own. So my next thought was ''sterilization.'' Unfortunately, this alone would cause massive unrest for generations to come from people who still have their sex drives speaking to them. Which leads to the point that sex drives just get in the way of any plans to control birth rates.

This is not the disappearance of a human's own humanity. Humans still have culture. And they will form new culture in time after sex drives are engineered out.

So, pleasurable sex.

We cool with that?

 

[OptimisticPessimist]

Wow. I just...wow. Dude. That's kinda fucked up. I could kinda see where you're coming from, but at the same time I can't. Just out of curiosity, have you ever had sex?

Don't be absurd, of course not.

I'm afraid that this is the opposite of fucked up. This is completely logical and practical. The more we have control over, the less chaos there is the world. And the less chaos, the better.

I sincerely hope this make sense.

No, it doesn't. The most glaring problem I see is that if you've never had sex, what the fuck do you think qualifies you to make that kind of judgement call? The other is that you're talking about taking out one of the best parts of life. I mean, I just cannot imagine a world without sex, but I'm guessing it'd be something shallow and sterile. Sex isn't just a means of reproduction or a source of pleasure, although it serves admirably for both. It's also a level of intimacy that transcends what one feels on a day to day basis. It's a connection, it binds people together. Sex is a celebration of the very things that make us human. To talk so casually, so coldly about just getting rid of that is monsterous. It's inhuman. It's frankly terrifying.

The original thought is that chaotic and unchecked birthrates is going to leave our planet dry. Since adequate space travel is turning out to be a pipe dream, it doesn't look as though we will be able to spread to other planets and use those resources. Controlled birth rates suit both situations of both discovering and not discovering quick space travel. But unfortunately, we cannot control birth rates through artificial reproduction as long as humans are able to reproduce on their own. So my next thought was ''sterilization.'' Unfortunately, this alone would cause massive unrest for generations to come from people who still have their sex drives speaking to them. Which leads to the point that sex drives just get in the way of any plans to control birth rates.

This is not the disappearance of a human's own humanity. Humans still have culture. And they will form new culture in time after sex drives are engineered out.

Allright, clearly we're not gonna agree here. I still think you're crazy, but I generally try to stay away from internet arguements. Bravo for getting me into one in the first place.

 

[RaphaelsRedemption]

[:]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you're a Christian.

And "absolute truth" therefore means "a commandment of God backed up by natural law".

I hav no problems with this. But you haven't mentioned this "absolute truth" before, preferring to cite negative issues which may be connected to the viewing of porn.

I honestly think you would have been better served by putting your main reason first, and then mentioning issues you believe are consequences of porn.

As a Catholic, I know we believe that sex is a gift. It is meant to be shared between husband and wife within the sacrament of marriage.

Porn is not a good thing because:

A. It involves people having sex outside of marriage.

B. It is degrading to the fundamental dignity of human beings.

C. It portrays sex as a casual activity, not as a sacred gift.

D. It often leads to masturbation, which in itself is considered wrong by the Catholic Church.

E. It promotes a selfish view of sex, as something to relieve one's own urges, without considering the other uses of sex, such as an expression of love between spouses and the means of procreation.

I could go on, but you can see my reasons for not approving of porn personally are quite different to yours, and that I express them in a very different way.

I would also like to emphasise that while I believe this to be true, and I am happy to share my views, I would not ever want to enforce them on others who do not hold the same beliefs.[/quote]

Spot on. I'm a devout evangelical Christian. I started this thread with a broad opening paragraph just to see people's opinion on the topic. I didn't want to give all the facts straight away because I rather enjoy open ended discussions. Even if there are many comments which I can't get to.

A. Yes, but what can I do about that? People believe that it is perfectly ethical to do so these days.

B. I would say that it probably has influenced more than a few people to forget what love truly is and only see it as love for a sexual partner. That "meat inserted into orifice" idea that some people may have of love springs to mind lol.

C. Again, casual sex is a norm already. Freedom speaks.

D. The act isn't, but the thoughts associated with it are - according to mainstream Protestant's interpretation of scripture. But we won't get into that for now.

E. Spot on again.

Who says I disagree with you on this topic? The only thing we will likely disagree on are doctrinal issues as well as Theology. But again - that would be off topic.[/quote]

In which case, God bless you, and good luck.

My only concerns at all within this topic have been with presentation of beliefs, as I really didn't know where you were coming from.

 

[Gentile]

And how does any of this change with porn?

If you've been sexually active with more than one partner in your life, then something must have told you in your mind that it's acceptable. So why not take a look at the most obvious thing that screams "Oh hey, look at us - we're having sex with x number of people."

 

[OptimisticPessimist]

Wow. I just...wow. Dude. That's kinda fucked up. I could kinda see where you're coming from, but at the same time I can't. Just out of curiosity, have you ever had sex?

Don't be absurd, of course not.

I'm afraid that this is the opposite of fucked up. This is completely logical and practical. The more we have control over, the less chaos there is the world. And the less chaos, the better.

I sincerely hope this make sense.

No, it doesn't. The most glaring problem I see is that if you've never had sex, what the fuck do you think qualifies you to make that kind of judgement call? The other is that you're talking about taking out one of the best parts of life. I mean, I just cannot imagine a world without sex, but I'm guessing it'd be something shallow and sterile. Sex isn't just a means of reproduction or a source of pleasure, although it serves admirably for both. It's also a level of intimacy that transcends what one feels on a day to day basis. It's a connection, it binds people together. Sex is a celebration of the very things that make us human. To talk so casually, so coldly about just getting rid of that is monsterous. It's inhuman. It's frankly terrifying.

The original thought is that chaotic and unchecked birthrates is going to leave our planet dry. Since adequate space travel is turning out to be a pipe dream, it doesn't look as though we will be able to spread to other planets and use those resources. Controlled birth rates suit both situations of both discovering and not discovering quick space travel. But unfortunately, we cannot control birth rates through artificial reproduction as long as humans are able to reproduce on their own. So my next thought was ''sterilization.'' Unfortunately, this alone would cause massive unrest for generations to come from people who still have their sex drives speaking to them. Which leads to the point that sex drives just get in the way of any plans to control birth rates.

This is not the disappearance of a human's own humanity. Humans still have culture. And they will form new culture in time after sex drives are engineered out.

Allright, clearly we're not gonna agree here. I still think you're crazy, but I generally try to stay away from internet arguements. Bravo for getting me into one in the first place.

I can see things from your perspective. It's a scary thought for most humans I am sure. However, the end will most certainly justify the means. People will be living happier lives.

Fair enough.

 

[Gentile]

In which case, God bless you, and good luck.

My only concerns at all within this topic have been with presentation of beliefs, as I really didn't know where you were coming from.

could have sworn that my name gave it away.

But anyway, thanks :] God bless you too.

 

[Gentile]

-snip-

my 2 cents (canadian)

The Onion always pleases me <3

Ty (But that's expected considering that you're Canadian)

 

[michael_ab]

.................are you debating that people watch porn, that we should expose our children to sex ed earlier, or that porn is good/evil? I got confused reading and didn't click the link.

But yeah, sex is natural, the consequences are the results of the act itself, and "I'm fairly sure if they took porn off the internet there'd only be one website left and it'd be called Bring Back the Porn" - Dr Perry Cox, Scrubs.

I never quite believed in taking people's desires away, even if it is something in which I am against. Free choice is something that I have to respect if I expect others to respect me for making my choices.

/Proof http://www.spike.com/video/truth-about-internet/3052562

I kind of quit taking you seriously after you posted a from Spike TV link...(Which is a hugely sexualized site IMO)

OT: I wouldn't actually say that children are exposed to sex for the first time through Pornography. Every single person that I know well was first exposed to sex with all this talk about "condoms" and "boners"....notice how I said "condoms"?

Your claims of all teenagers now being "hedonistic" are kind of over-blown. Sure, a lot of us want sex at this age, but that doesn't actually mean that we all just go out and fuck whenever we feel like. It's more common for people to just whack it off(which is what the afromentioned porn is for), and not have to deal with the potential STDs and pregnancy. I know this because I AM a teenager in a pretty "sexualized" highschool.

As for the exploitation of pornstars, 95 times out of a hundred they have willingly walked into the industry, so they're obviously prepared to get an STD, get railed in the ass, and fake moaning for hours on end. Only pornstars really have sex with pornstars, so it isn't like they're spreading a lot of it. They also have birth control that they require the stars to take, and government enforced AIDS tests that they need to take once every month.

All that being said, I'd rather have a generation of kids fapping off to consenting adults having sex in front of camera instead of becoming promiscuous and doing sexual acts on camera themselves.

I used the link because it featured semi-erotic imagery as well as a bunch of statistics - which I thought would appeal to you~ But I guess you focus on the superficial.

condoms and boners are probably ideas that they got somewhere on the web anyway. Personally, I never even heard about those terms prior to moving to North America from Thailand at age 9, but I did view porn as a young kid back then.

whacking off is essentially a hedonistic activity isn't it? You can argue that it's the safest form of sex but that doesn't explain how I am wrong to assume (based on personal observations) that many high school students these days have developed a strong affinity for physical pleasures.

As for your last point, you give a statistic that basically says "95% of people would like to suffer irreversible physical and emotional damage to make a living." But I guess we're not pornstars - we're real human beings, so we don't need to care about them.

?! are you serious? no child first learns of porn from the internet, they would need to know what to look for to find it. you dont accidently come across porn, and if you recieve spam for it you are already visiting questionable sites. YOU LOSE YOUR INNOCENCE FROM THOSE YOU TRUST! anywhere else you wouldnt know what your looking at. all those kids in school that are talking about boners? its because their older siblings (who are at right about the right age to have that be the natural focus of their train of thought, in all situations) are talking about them, and the younger siblings are emulating, after that the idea spreads from friend to friend in school, because the little buggers think its the "adult" thing to do, solely because their older siblings are doing it.

as for hedonistic, yes masterbation is hedonistic, only because it is "the seeking and/or fulfilling of personal pleasure for the sole purpose of pleasure"

and you CLEARLY have prosstitution confused with pornography... umm... ok im just going to start from the beginning.

pornography is the graphical depiction of a sexual act, simple as that. so yes there is porno, a lot of porno, that was taken without regard to the safely of the people involved. however that is, for lack of a better term, "indie" porn (like indie games or movies, not actually funded or endorsed by any company, its just a couple people having fun). these people do not have a career in this field, although they may be aspiring to do so. pornography done by an actual studio requires all of their... um... "clients" (i cant call them actors with a straight face) to take birth control, and are required by federal law to submit STD tests every month, at least in the US.

ok thats enough informative ranting for tonight. sorry its way too early for me to bother clipping that quote.

 

[drdamo]

The problem these days is that sex isn't the means to reach the goal of a good relationship anymore.
Sex IS the goal for alot of people and they use (false)"love" as the means to get it.
Which results in more unprotective sex, blind people who believe the lies, blind people who realize the lies eventually and open their eyes again, hate humanity for it and eventually do the same manipulation dance vice-versa.
This is why (female) youngsters trade their body for the things they want. This is why teen pregnancy is up, this is why alot of relationships fail.

Logically speaking its all about the miscommunication with supply & demand.
If you want sex, say it. Go out there, put on your best confident smile and ask the person you want to shag "Fancy a fuck?" It might be too direct for some situations, yet strangely enough it works most of the time.
And if you want love, show love. Play, tease, genuinely show interest in the person and their opinion and don't give in too fast into your primordial urges.

-----------------------------------------
And to make things interesting I'll give my abstract opinion on love. This is a rough translation from a Dutch text I wrote about 2 years ago:
-------------------
Isn't love like water and vice-versa?
Logically concluding: Can true love ever be tamed?(Because true water can't be tamed either, right?)
And if you try to tame love anyway, is that love still love?

Because tamed water, caged, confined, cut off from the flow, will eventually be a breeding pool for diseases, loosing its freshness, no longer consumeable and therefore as good as dead, right?
And if love stands still, you'll eventually become sick aswell, it will be far from fresh and once you realize that consuming it becomes unhealthy it dies like water, right?

So is lust the same as thirst?
And aren't there too many people who want to satisfy their thirst for lust using love?
We don't need a sea's worth of water to satisfy our thirst, just enough to keep us hydrated, right?
And too much water at once is deadly, so why can't too much love be deadly aswell?

We humans are simply too spoiled and it doesn't amaze me anymore that there are alot of people who fail in their quest for love, simply because they want more than they need.
Or (as said above) miscommunication of supply & demand with which you'll only hurt yourself.
Every time we claim more, our base need increases up to a point where love becomes lust; a thirst you'll eventually be unable to satisfy, unless you open your eyes and stop lying to yourself.
-----------------------------------------