Batman is exactly why I don't PC game

[Doom972]

So you knowingly open yourself to the possibility of a game not working out of the box. Windows updates are seamless and most of the time not very intrusive, so if you want things to run out of the box, you have to let it update automatically. Same goes for drivers as well. I'm sure that if you don't let your consoles update their firmware automatically, you'll find yourself staring at a download/installation screen when you try to run a recent game.

Shouldn't the game come with the software it needs to play? If you bought a physical copy of a PC game because you don't have internet, you should be able to play the game. Like console games that require a certain firmware version or higher come with that firmware on the disc. You very rarely have to update the firmware of a console to play a game (if you do, it's on the disc) unless you want to play online, you don't have to download and update the firmware even if you're prompted to. And what DoPo said about Windows Updates, I hate them, I don't need them so what's the point of potentially messing up my system? I literally don't have anything automatically update from my computer to my console to my phone.

Comparing windows installations to firmware makes no sense, because the PC is an open platform, and hardware configurations vary. Having every game include all windows (7 or 8) updates since its release would take too much space. Game downloads are large enough already. Besides, no game publisher/developer can take responsibility for Windows, since it's software that has nothing to do with them. It's the opposite case with MS and Sony on their consoles.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Unless you buy it in Day One. Then maybe it'll work, or maybe it will be Assassin's Creed: Unity, Halo: Master Chief Collection, The Crew, Little Big Planet 3 or Tetris Ultimate. How the heck can someone screw up Tetris on the PS4!?

Why does everyone bring up Unity? The game was full of bugs, not the PS4 or Xbone or PC version only. It wasn't a version/porting issue, it's not like PC users had a terrific game while the PS4 version got saddled with bugs. Most of the other games had mainly online issues, which every game has at launch. Consoles games aren't perfect by any stretch but I have probably at least a 99% chance of the game working satisfactory on the console vs the PC version being not nearly that high. A person mention Mortal Kombat X's issues on console trying to show console games have issues too and the PC version had more issues than the console version, which is my whole point. You will get more issues with PC games than console games, that's just a fact.

What PC gamers can't realize is that PC gaming is expensive, WAY more expensive than console's, in most of the countries in the world. That's because hardware stores in say, small European countries, Middle East, South and South East Asia and elsewhere, usually find no real competition like the one found in the USA or bigger European countries, and start charging for more, sometimes, a lot more. That's why a unified price tag on a console makes its entry-barrier much easier.

PC gaming isn't even cheaper in the US either. You'll find plenty of builds near console prices that do have better specs but the builds usually fail to add in the cost of Windows, keyboard & mouse, and usually use the cheaper parts (like choosing a not-so-great video card manufacturer).

Comparing windows installations to firmware makes no sense, because the PC is an open platform, and hardware configurations vary. Having every game include all windows (7 or 8) updates since its release would take too much space. Game downloads are large enough already. Besides, no game publisher/developer can take responsibility for Windows, since it's software that has nothing to do with them. It's the opposite case with MS and Sony on their consoles.

The game could say Windows 7 SP1 is required than put any required hotfixes (which wouldn't be very many at all) on the disc along with any stuff like DirectX.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

You can't sit there and tell me a better looking game isn't better than a worse looking game, all other things equal.
You can buy and sell a physical copy of the PC version too, so your point is moot. And that version will STILL be cheaper to buy.
The console isn't cheaper. This: http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/wiki/builds#wiki_the_next-gen_crusher out-does it slightly performance wise to my understanding (and carries all the advantages of a PC). Factor in the fact that console games tend to cost more, the controllers can cost god knows how much, paying for online each month to use your own internet, the fact that PC has abundant sales, the fact that PC has a metric fuckton of free games etc, etc, the even if the PC isn't cheaper in the short term (depending on what build you want), give it a year or so and you'll have saved more money than buying a console AND gotten a better experience.

Sure a game looking better is good but it ever so slightly increases my enjoyment of the game. I bought the Team ICO PS3 HD collection and it was nice having better graphics for those games but I'd maybe rate the HD versions like 0.1 higher than the PS2 versions if I was scoring each version, they were still the same games.

How can you sell a copy of a PC game that comes with an activation code like say GTAV? Note: I'm not sure if a majority of PC games have activation codes or not.

That PC you linked to is more expensive, comes with a Sapphire video card (which I wouldn't buy), and doesn't come with an OS (which costs money) nor a DVD drive (to say play a physical copy of a PC game...). Console games cost me at most $20 assuming I bought it on release or very soon after, and obviously less if I wait to play it later (which is mainly I don't have time to play it then vs actually waiting for a price drop). You can get controllers pretty cheap every Black Friday, even the most basic keyboard/mouse costs about $20 (most PC gamers buy more expensive versions) and I'm guessing PC controllers aren't super cheap (they're probably cheaper than a PS4/Xbone controller but a PC needs a KB/M and if you want a controller, as some games play better with a controller, then that's at least another $20 so at least $40 right there on controllers for PC). And, that build you posted doesn't even include a keyboard/mouse whereas consoles come with a controller and usually a game for the base price of $400. Your computer build is way over $500 at this point. PS+ only makes gaming cheaper, I've been a PS+ member probably like 5 years now and I even kept it when unemployeed because gaming was cheaper with it. I agree it's bullshit to have to have it to play online but for me, PS+ is something I'd have regardless. PSN is pretty good at times with sales, a digital marketplace is sorta new to consoles, things will improve just like it did with Steam.

Ah but you still bought the HD version. Then again I wouldn't call that an apt comparison, the grpahics difference beween the Witcher 3 on console vs PC is a better comparison. I'd say same for Crisis. And we're leaving out Frame Rate too.

You may be right on the activation code front. I'm not sure there, though I'm kinda sure you can simply message the dev as I've heard it done before. Not certain though, so you may be right.

A few small things to get out of the way first: You can get Windows 7 on the subreddit for $20, a keyboard and mouse is also $20.
With PSN sales, I doubt they'll improve. There is no competition on PSN, it all goes through them, and it's their way or the highway. No competitive market on that platform, they merely have to compete with Xbone, which is less of a thrat since it's a whole platform away.

How in the hell do you get new release games for $20 each? Same goes for the controllers too. Do you live in a country like Russia, or do you get these off the back of a truck?

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Ah but you still bought the HD version. Then again I wouldn't call that an apt comparison, the grpahics difference beween the Witcher 3 on console vs PC is a better comparison. I'd say same for Crisis. And we're leaving out Frame Rate too.

You may be right on the activation code front. I'm not sure there, though I'm kinda sure you can simply message the dev as I've heard it done before. Not certain though, so you may be right.

A few small things to get out of the way first: You can get Windows 7 on the subreddit for $20, a keyboard and mouse is also $20.
With PSN sales, I doubt they'll improve. There is no competition on PSN, it all goes through them, and it's their way or the highway. No competitive market on that platform, they merely have to compete with Xbone, which is less of a thrat since it's a whole platform away.

How in the hell do you get new release games for $20 each? Same goes for the controllers too. Do you live in a country like Russia, or do you get these off the back of a truck?

I didn't have the games anymore and wanted to play them thus I bought the HD collection, I didn't buy them to "upgrade" my experience.

The build you linked to was basically $450 so that's at least another $40 (KB/M & Windows). Plus, it still has no optical drive, but that is optional (it is nice to be able to burn stuff from time to time). Some games do control better with a controller so I'm guessing a PC gamer would want a controller as well whether it's an Xbox/PS controller or PC controller, that adds some money. I'd definitely want a controller if I was going to PC game, I really do hate the KB/M for playing games. So this gaming PC is going to be right around $500 give or take depending on the user wanting addition things (optical drive/controller and those prices and rebates still being available as well), which is $100 more than a console. That is really the lowest you can build a decent gaming PC for and you do have to go AMD for that, which not everyone might want to do either. I put together this build [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.877223-I-want-to-get-into-PC-Gaming-Yes-Im-that-guy#22080503] in like 15 minutes for a bit over $500 without looking for the best deals either. But you just can't put together a decent gaming PC for $400.

PSN sales are pretty decent at times, even Steam good sometimes, like I got Blood Dragon for $2.50 or $3.50 and they run quite a few games for $10 or cheaper like I got Max Payne 3 for like $7 (but I hated the game though) and Red Dead Redemption for like $7 too (I also hated it lol, I'm done with Rockstar). I won't buy a game on PSN unless it's less than $20. If PSN/Live and developers were smart, they'd sell games day 1 for like $40 digitally. I bet the developer would end up making more money due to more people buying digitally thus less people buying used games.

I don't need more than one controller, and that came with my system. If my controller is starting to get that worn feeling, I just wait until Black Friday to pick one up cheap, they always run controllers on sale then.

I bought Bloodborne on release for basically $50 as Target had a deal where you pay $5 more and get a $20 PSN card ($70 w/tax - $20). I literally just sold Bloodborne for $31 [http://www.ebay.com/itm/111698565614?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1561.l2649] just the other day. So I had the game for 3 months, took my time with it, and sold it. And, of course, if I don't buy a game right away, but the time I get around to having time to play it, it's probably already down to at least $30 (even cheaper on Black Friday on games just months old too). Sell those games and you end up only paying like $5-$10 for them in the end.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

He sells them on ebay for 40 bucks once he's done. That's where he's getting the $20 figure.

It's all fine and dandy on an individual scale, but it becomes extremely stupid once you start advocating and talking about it as if it's a thing that the majority of players can or should do, like Phoenix just did here and in that one thread he started a while back exclusively about that topic.

The problem that happens when most people start doing that is that it's completely economically unsustainable, and would likely result in the death of console gaming.

EDIT: See? What'd I tell ya, I fucking called it.

Or if publishers just sold games digitally cheaper more people would buy digitally, the developer would make more money (much less used game sales), but that just makes too much sense. Also, more games would probably be sold as $40 a pop means people could afford more games, it would make for a healthier industry with people trying games they probably wouldn't currently due to the $60 price tag.

How is being able to sell your game (if you want) not a Pro of console gaming? Most gamers aren't kids anymore like 20 years ago. We don't have time to play all the games we want to let alone have the luxury of replaying games. And if you do at some time want to play that game again down the line, the game is going to be super cheap at that point anyways. It really makes no sense to hold onto any asset that's collecting dust and is only depreciating.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

Ah but you still bought the HD version. Then again I wouldn't call that an apt comparison, the grpahics difference beween the Witcher 3 on console vs PC is a better comparison. I'd say same for Crisis. And we're leaving out Frame Rate too.

You may be right on the activation code front. I'm not sure there, though I'm kinda sure you can simply message the dev as I've heard it done before. Not certain though, so you may be right.

A few small things to get out of the way first: You can get Windows 7 on the subreddit for $20, a keyboard and mouse is also $20.
With PSN sales, I doubt they'll improve. There is no competition on PSN, it all goes through them, and it's their way or the highway. No competitive market on that platform, they merely have to compete with Xbone, which is less of a thrat since it's a whole platform away.

How in the hell do you get new release games for $20 each? Same goes for the controllers too. Do you live in a country like Russia, or do you get these off the back of a truck?

I didn't have the games anymore and wanted to play them thus I bought the HD collection, I didn't buy them to "upgrade" my experience.

The build you linked to was basically $450 so that's at least another $40 (KB/M & Windows). Plus, it still has no optical drive, but that is optional (it is nice to be able to burn stuff from time to time). Some games do control better with a controller so I'm guessing a PC gamer would want a controller as well whether it's an Xbox/PS controller or PC controller, that adds some money. I'd definitely want a controller if I was going to PC game, I really do hate the KB/M for playing games. So this gaming PC is going to be right around $500 give or take depending on the user wanting addition things (optical drive/controller and those prices and rebates still being available as well), which is $100 more than a console. That is really the lowest you can build a decent gaming PC for and you do have to go AMD for that, which not everyone might want to do either. I put together this build [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.877223-I-want-to-get-into-PC-Gaming-Yes-Im-that-guy#22080503] in like 15 minutes for a bit over $500 without looking for the best deals either. But you just can't put together a decent gaming PC for $400.

PSN sales are pretty decent at times, even Steam good sometimes, like I got Blood Dragon for $2.50 or $3.50 and they run quite a few games for $10 or cheaper like I got Max Payne 3 for like $7 (but I hated the game though) and Red Dead Redemption for like $7 too (I also hated it lol, I'm done with Rockstar). I won't buy a game on PSN unless it's less than $20. If PSN/Live and developers were smart, they'd sell games day 1 for like $40 digitally. I bet the developer would end up making more money due to more people buying digitally thus less people buying used games.

I bought Bloodborne on release for basically $50 as Target had a deal where you pay $5 more and get a $20 PSN card ($70 w/tax - $20). I literally just sold Bloodborne for $31 [http://www.ebay.com/itm/111698565614?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1561.l2649] just the other day. So I had the game for 3 months, took my time with it, and sold it. And, of course, if I don't buy a game right away, but the time I get around to having time to play it, it's probably already down to at least $30 (even cheaper on Black Friday on games just months old too). Sell those games and you end up only paying like $5-$10 for them in the end.

The point about graphics still remains: Witcher 3 has a massive difference between console and PC.

You live in the US, so if you do shop around, you will definitely get the 450 build for possibly 400 or less. Look for a store called "Microcentre".
Plus if you just measure up the things that make it cheaper against the things that add value to it, it's far more worth it.

Cheaper:
No paying for online (I'm aware you seem to like PSN, but that still stands. Plus you actually have to PAY for the PSN sales, so that subtracts from it, and you can't sell your games on there like you mentioned earlier).
Far more stores to buy things from. You mentioned PSN outdoing Steam occasionally, but you've only seen the tip of the iceberg.
You can decide what budget you want your rig to be, and you can always take used parts from people who have upgraded, or pay a small price for them. The subreddit r/hardwareswap is a good place for this.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I know there is more, I just can't recall them right now.

Value:
Mods, infinite glorious mods.
Massive amount of Free to Play games. These have improved in quality drastically over the years.
Better looking games.
Higher framerates for smoother games.
Customizable settings.
Customizable button layouts.
The OPTION of choosing what input device you want to use to control the game.
Games that are unavailable on console, i.e. most games in existence. You're missing out on so much.
You have the option of spending more for better quality.
Humble Bundles. Look them up, I could also put this in the cheaper section.
Again, this is all off the top of my head.
P.S. there are also the little things take for granted, like easier web browsing, ease and choice of listening to music and pod-casts while playing, I'm aware Xbox just got the ability to take screenshots, well done them, and as I said before, infinite customization.

Also, since you're selling your games to get other games cheaper, I wouldn't necessarily call that a plus. Sure some games might function well with that, but not multiplayer or PSN games. Singleplayer maybe, if you only want to play it once or twice and never ever again. I suspect most people want to hold on to their games so they can play them again. And as Gundam said, this is unsustainable. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but if we're gonna say it's a big plus, and people started practicing on a wider scale... well then you CD-Keys for console games and that ends. Similar to BF3 and their multiplayer CD-Key thing they did.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Welcome to one of PC gaming's worst habits: the idea that they can just fix things later due to the internet with patches and updates. They seriously thought they could get away with this because they thought gamers would just take it and wait for an update because that's what they always do. So undisciplined.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The point about graphics still remains: Witcher 3 has a massive difference between console and PC.

You live in the US, so if you do shop around, you will definitely get the 450 build for possibly 400 or less. Look for a store called "Microcentre".
Plus if you just measure up the things that make it cheaper against the things that add value to it, it's far more worth it.

Cheaper:
No paying for online (I'm aware you seem to like PSN, but that still stands. Plus you actually have to PAY for the PSN sales, so that subtracts from it, and you can't sell your games on there like you mentioned earlier).
Far more stores to buy things from. You mentioned PSN outdoing Steam occasionally, but you've only seen the tip of the iceberg.
You can decide what budget you want your rig to be, and you can always take used parts from people who have upgraded, or pay a small price for them. The subreddit r/hardwareswap is a good place for this.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I know there is more, I just can't recall them right now.

Value:
Mods, infinite glorious mods.
Massive amount of Free to Play games. These have improved in quality drastically over the years.
Better looking games.
Higher framerates for smoother games.
Customizable settings.
Customizable button layouts.
The OPTION of choosing what input device you want to use to control the game.
Games that are unavailable on console, i.e. most games in existence. You're missing out on so much.
You have the option of spending more for better quality.
Humble Bundles. Look them up, I could also put this in the cheaper section.
Again, this is all off the top of my head.
P.S. there are also the little things take for granted, like easier web browsing, ease and choice of listening to music and pod-casts while playing, I'm aware Xbox just got the ability to take screenshots, well done them, and as I said before, infinite customization.

Also, since you're selling your games to get other games cheaper, I wouldn't necessarily call that a plus. Sure some games might function well with that, but not multiplayer or PSN games. Singleplayer maybe, if you only want to play it once or twice and never ever again. I suspect most people want to hold on to their games so they can play them again. And as Gundam said, this is unsustainable. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but if we're gonna say it's a big plus, and people started practicing on a wider scale... well then you CD-Keys for console games and that ends. Similar to BF3 and their multiplayer CD-Key thing they did.

I'm not going to deny better looking games isn't a plus. But most people don't really care about graphics, I care about gameplay. The gameplay isn't better on PC. Plus, I'd rather the game industry focus less on graphics on more on stuff like AI, that would make games better.

Is Microcenter's prices better on parts? Because I can't see them beating places like Newegg on price or selection. I also doubt I can buy a PC pre-built cheaper than building it myself. Plus, pre-builts usually have weak GPUs. Buying refurbs on eBay might be the only way to really lower down the price a good deal (but you can also buy refurb consoles).

I won't disagree that the PSN/Live online paywall is complete bullshit as you have to pay Sony/MS for a service they don't provide. But gaming is cheaper with PS+ so the "ends" are good but don't necessarily justify the "means". How do I have to PAY for PSN sales, I don't get that. PSN sales aren't just for PS+ users if that's what you mean.

I don't really get the whole Mods thing. I know some PC games have some pretty awesome mods but the majority of PC games don't have mods that significantly or even decently improve the game. The core game has to be good, you can't fix everything like people still find Skyrim bad with mods. My main issue with Bethesda games is shitty writing, is there a mod for that, I very much doubt it.

There's not that many free games I'd be interested in to be honest. PS4 has free-to-play games like Warframe and War Thunder and I don't find either good enough to play vs other games.

PS4 allows you to completely remap the controller.

I hate keyboard and mouse so for me, controller only is fine. Options are always good so I wouldn't be against having a KB/M option but not on competitive multiplayer.

I don't 100% completely console game. I have Divinity OS and bought Shadowrun Dragonfall off GOG's summer sale. If a game is available on both, I'm buying it on console.

Like I said, digital copies should be cheaper than discs. I would buy more games digitally if they were cheaper as they should be due to them being inferior to physical copies. Thus, I then wouldn't sell my games and the publisher/devs would make more money due to me not selling my games. The physical copy is not only superior but cheaper as I can usually find it for $10 off retail price even on release day, why the hell would I buy the digital version? The online pass failed on consoles so would the activation key thing too since it would completely screw over retailers way more than lowering the price of digital copies.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

The point about graphics still remains: Witcher 3 has a massive difference between console and PC.

You live in the US, so if you do shop around, you will definitely get the 450 build for possibly 400 or less. Look for a store called "Microcentre".
Plus if you just measure up the things that make it cheaper against the things that add value to it, it's far more worth it.

Cheaper:
No paying for online (I'm aware you seem to like PSN, but that still stands. Plus you actually have to PAY for the PSN sales, so that subtracts from it, and you can't sell your games on there like you mentioned earlier).
Far more stores to buy things from. You mentioned PSN outdoing Steam occasionally, but you've only seen the tip of the iceberg.
You can decide what budget you want your rig to be, and you can always take used parts from people who have upgraded, or pay a small price for them. The subreddit r/hardwareswap is a good place for this.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I know there is more, I just can't recall them right now.

Value:
Mods, infinite glorious mods.
Massive amount of Free to Play games. These have improved in quality drastically over the years.
Better looking games.
Higher framerates for smoother games.
Customizable settings.
Customizable button layouts.
The OPTION of choosing what input device you want to use to control the game.
Games that are unavailable on console, i.e. most games in existence. You're missing out on so much.
You have the option of spending more for better quality.
Humble Bundles. Look them up, I could also put this in the cheaper section.
Again, this is all off the top of my head.
P.S. there are also the little things take for granted, like easier web browsing, ease and choice of listening to music and pod-casts while playing, I'm aware Xbox just got the ability to take screenshots, well done them, and as I said before, infinite customization.

Also, since you're selling your games to get other games cheaper, I wouldn't necessarily call that a plus. Sure some games might function well with that, but not multiplayer or PSN games. Singleplayer maybe, if you only want to play it once or twice and never ever again. I suspect most people want to hold on to their games so they can play them again. And as Gundam said, this is unsustainable. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but if we're gonna say it's a big plus, and people started practicing on a wider scale... well then you CD-Keys for console games and that ends. Similar to BF3 and their multiplayer CD-Key thing they did.

I'm not going to deny better looking games isn't a plus. But most people don't really care about graphics, I care about gameplay. The gameplay isn't better on PC. Plus, I'd rather the game industry focus less on graphics on more on stuff like AI, that would make games better.

Is Microcenter's prices better on parts? Because I can't see them beating places like Newegg on price or selection. I also doubt I can buy a PC pre-built cheaper than building it myself. Plus, pre-builts usually have weak GPUs. Buying refurbs on eBay might be the only way to really lower down the price a good deal (but you can also buy refurb consoles).

I won't disagree that the PSN/Live online paywall is complete bullshit as you have to pay Sony/MS for a service they don't provide. But gaming is cheaper with PS+ so the "ends" are good but don't necessarily justify the "means". How do I have to PAY for PSN sales, I don't get that. PSN sales aren't just for PS+ users if that's what you mean.

I don't really get the whole Mods thing. I know some PC games have some pretty awesome mods but the majority of PC games don't have mods that significantly or even decently improve the game. The core game has to be good, you can't fix everything like people still find Skyrim bad with mods. My main issue with Bethesda games is shitty writing, is there a mod for that, I very much doubt it.

There's not that many free games I'd be interested in to be honest. PS4 has free-to-play games like Warframe and War Thunder and I don't find either good enough to play vs other games.

PS4 allows you to completely remap the controller.

I hate keyboard and mouse so for me, controller only is fine. Options are always good so I wouldn't be against having a KB/M option but not on competitive multiplayer.

I don't 100% completely console game. I have Divinity OS and bought Shadowrun Dragonfall off GOG's summer sale. If a game is available on both, I'm buying it on console.

Like I said, digital copies should be cheaper than discs. I would buy more games digitally if they were cheaper as they should be due to them being inferior to physical copies. Thus, I then wouldn't sell my games and the publisher/devs would make more money due to me not selling my games. The physical copy is not only superior but cheaper as I can usually find it for $10 off retail price even on release day, why the hell would I buy the digital version? The online pass failed on consoles so would the activation key thing too since it would completely screw over retailers way more than lowering the price of digital copies.

Most people DO care about graphics. Granted it's almost never one of the main selling points of a game, but if it looks like shit, you're not likely to buy it. If Star Citizen looked like a console game, it never would've gotten anywhere near the over 100 million dollar crowdfunding it did. Console gamers are still cranky over over not always hitting 1080p and 60fps. If it was all 720p, there'd be hell to pay, and you'd care about that too. If everything was shitty and blurry, you'd care about that too. These are just a few examples, I can continue if you want. Saying most people don't care about graphics is blatantly false.

Never buy pre-built. End of story. As far as I've heard, Microcentre is really good whenever they pop up in disucssion, and they're always recommended. Unfortunately for me, they're US based.

Wait, so how does PS+ make gaming cheaper if you don't need it for sales?

Mods DO improve the game. It's free content, made by the players. Whether it adds storylines, graphical improvements, characters, mechanics, items, etc, etc. They improve the game.
Actually, since you mentioned it, there are plenty of mods for Skyrim that add characters with well-written dialogue, good voice acting, and storylines. Same goes for questlines.

PS4 has fuck-all free games. PC has fuck-tons. Just take a look mate, seek and you shall find. That's the beauty of it. PC has infinite possibilities, console is stuck inside a box, and if you want out of it, you need to buy a PC.

Does it actually allow controller remapping? I haven't heard of it before. How does this work exactly?

In competitive multiplayer shooters, you will get stomped by KB/M used if you use a controller. Controller only really has an advantage in racing games.

Digital copies are unlikely to cheaper on consoles anytime soon. The manufacturers are good buddies with Gamestop, so they won't cut them out. Also, there's real competition. It's Sony's/Microsoft's way or the highway on their system. They can charge whatever they like, and there's nothing to really threaten them. It's basically communism.

And can I assume you agree with all the other points that I made off the top of my head?


Edit: we did kind of veer off-topic anyway didn't we? If we got back to Batman, well the original point still stands. This happens all the time, regardless of platform. Except now it's been taken off shelves until it's fixed. I don't think that's ever happened on console with a AAA game.

 

[rasta111]

I think the premise is true as basically a PC game goes through a million different setups while the console is a unified design which a game can be more fully optimised for. Updates too are a mixed blessing, every fix breaks something else, it's a cold hard fact of development. If it didn't we wouldn't have endless updates and games patches.

Learn to live with it is the only message here. Waste your time on a console or a PC... Is there really a difference? Sure there's a million issues in between which we could all discuss all day long most likely ending up right back where we started which would be that basic premise.

As a PC gamer I find we have 'learn to live with it' stamped on our foreheads at birth and that's why we love PCs over consoles despite all this. We like being able to fix/mod things ourselves. I play consoles too but I find it's the opposite mentality at work there... Not to call anyone lazy or anything, personal preference and everything, in the end we all just want to play some games without really feeling like we're wasting time... Even though we're doing just that quite deliberately too.

Let me know when you figure out why we do that because I've got nothing. Feeling like we're wasting time isn't fun so we waste time for fun... Yeah nothing. You should feel worried when you catch me stumped like that incidentally. The dark gods are entering the playing field...

Tis never been a good sign. What is this escapism we value so highly? What are we running from? All good questions... It's all a matter of perspective. This on the other hand does not stump me because I can see it, it's just too bad the act of seeing leaves a mark on proceedings, invisible but not imperceptible. Some things can't be explained away... No for some things you need a really big stick.

Spoiler: The Stick

Unfortunately it's like fighting a ghost and just for fun you're blind. I'd stand a little further back. It's a big stick.

A visual reference so you know when to duck.

 

[asdfen]

If you are talking about Arkham Origins then it was unplayable on all devices at release. I was finally able to complete my copy on PS3 a year later after they patched most of game breaking bugs I was encountering.

Batman Arkham Assylum/City look absolutley amazing on PC compared to consoles do not have slowdowns and didnt have any bugs that I've encountered. PC versions of those games are vastly superior.

 

[Chaos Isaac]

Truth of the matter, this entire chat doesn't matter. Some people prefer console, some people prefer PC. Some people prefer gaming with a controller and no errors. (Last time I used a controller on my PC, it made my entire system crash. Odd enough, as i've consistently used that controller and set up repeatedly. It's also annoying to go back and forth from input devices.) Some people hate keyboard and mouse. (Like me, it hurts my wrist after a while. Controllers don't.)

At the end, it's a matter of convenience and preference.

 

[Silverbeard]

If I buy a game for a console, it's going to fucking work.

I can put a CD copy of Baldur's Gate 2 into my new PC and that shit is still going to fucking work. Can I slide a Fable disc into a Xbone? I can, but that shit won't fucking work. Consider that mate.

 

[Joccaren]

Console games run perfectly fine. There's barely any DLC even worth purchasing.

Darksouls Blighttown would love to talk to you about that 'run perfectly fine' bit... among other examples. Funnily enough, the PC version, for all its faults, didn't even cough there, let alone struggle.

The Skyrim issue is in all platforms. My friends played Skyrim on PS3 and only had quest problems I believe.

To take an argument from your own book, it had the most problems on the PS3, and at the time the forums were filled with PS3s whining about it not working. PC owners were laughing and saying "Lol RAM" and "Lol mods" at that point. Pretty crappy defence from you there. Oh, but I forgot, we need to hold console games to different standards or else your whole argument falls apart. Forgive me, I completely missed that part - anyone would have thought it to be obvious from all the shifting goal posts around here but apparently not me.

Last-gen consoles had issues because they had to use lead free solder for stupid reasons. Anyways, we're talking about software, not hardware. And last-gen was the only time my console ever broke from NES to PS4 now.

Funny, I thought we were talking about Consoles being more reliable than PCs. That was what your OP was about, so when did this debate shift? When that wasn't a defensible front?
As for consoles that have had problems... N64, PS1, PS2, Xbox 360 on my end. Mates N64 just died at one point, and mine needed the 'cartridge blow' to work after less than a year of ownership. PS1 had aforementioned overheating issue - funnily enough I wasn't talking about the PS3 or Xbox 360 with that one, I was talking first gen. PS2 had the exact same problem. Xbox 360, as said, Red Ring of Death. One of my friends had that happen but was lucky enough to have a father who works in console maintenance, who pulled it apart, shoved in new parts, and put it back together and got it working again.
So, lets not pretend that it was only last gen that has been any less than perfect for consoles. Every generation has had its problems.

It's not even about shit ports, it's about games not working satisfactory or working at all. Bayonetta on PS3 is a shit-port but it still works and is very playable.

And know what, Darksouls on the PC was a REALLY fucking shit port, but AFAIK it still worked and was playable, it just had really shitty resolution locks and controls.
Or how about Darksiders 2 on the PC. Worked perfectly fine for me, but was a really shit port. Hell, Mass Effect 2 IMO was a really shit port, with them turning everything into "E to use" and removing any hotkeys for individual weapons, or for your codex/journal/character tabs and such - consolified through and through. It ran like a dream though.
So... What's your point? Yes, this is about shit ports. By your own criteria [Which you have mentioned later to not include online problems] most first party PC games work fine out of the box day 1. Of course, this counts Sim City, Diablo III, and any number of other really shit launches that didn't work because of online issues. Oh, but that's fine, because we don't count those sorts of things by your own excuses.

A good percentage of PC gamers literally couldn't play Splinter Cell Blacklist. MKX seems to have had server issues (from quickly Googling) on consoles and the PC version had more issues like lots of gamers not being able to play it and low FPS. It's rather funny your game example only ended being another point in my favor.

Oh, MKX had server issues alround. However on the PS4 licenses were removed from the users versions causing an error CE-34878-0 which, from what everyone reports on that I've found, affected exclusively PS4 users. Warner Brothers claimed it was Sony, Sony claimed it was Warner Bros. Fun.
I would also hardly count framerate issues as terrible on the PC, considering most people complain when they drop below 60, which is still perfectly playable. On consoles framerate issues normally mean you're playing at 10-20 FPS, as the Console starts at 30, but that's a whole other issue.

Again, it simply comes down to this: Will I be able to play a console game? Yes. Will I be able to play a PC game? Probably, but maybe not.

Will you be able to play a console game? Yes - except for those times when there's bugs on both the PC and console versions... Then you can't. Or when the PS4 firmware update 2.0 hits and causes people's PS4s to be locked in some sort of standby loop. I guess you couldn't play then either. Or when your console doesn't have enough RAM for the latest Skyrim, and dies once your save file gets too big. Or when some license deletion bug hits.
I could go on.
Hmm. It almost seems like one could not be certain as to whether they could play a console game or not! What a novel concept.

 

[Maximum Bert]

A broken unoptimised game will run like crap no matter what it is on. Pcs have had crappy ports before and so have consoles devs should take the time to optimise and alleviate as many problems as possible at launch but they dont always do so. I dont know if its down to incompetence or they just dont care a lot of the time plus I would wager Publishers are just as much to blame by forcing a game out when it clearly is not ready.

All this Console gaming/PC gaming is better bs is just tiring tbh neither is exclusively better if you want the best gaming experience you will have to do what you always had to and that is invest in it all.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Most people DO care about graphics. Granted it's almost never one of the main selling points of a game, but if it looks like shit, you're not likely to buy it. If Star Citizen looked like a console game, it never would've gotten anywhere near the over 100 million dollar crowdfunding it did. Console gamers are still cranky over over not always hitting 1080p and 60fps. If it was all 720p, there'd be hell to pay, and you'd care about that too. If everything was shitty and blurry, you'd care about that too. These are just a few examples, I can continue if you want. Saying most people don't care about graphics is blatantly false.

Never buy pre-built. End of story. As far as I've heard, Microcentre is really good whenever they pop up in disucssion, and they're always recommended. Unfortunately for me, they're US based.

Wait, so how does PS+ make gaming cheaper if you don't need it for sales?

Mods DO improve the game. It's free content, made by the players. Whether it adds storylines, graphical improvements, characters, mechanics, items, etc, etc. They improve the game.
Actually, since you mentioned it, there are plenty of mods for Skyrim that add characters with well-written dialogue, good voice acting, and storylines. Same goes for questlines.

PS4 has fuck-all free games. PC has fuck-tons. Just take a look mate, seek and you shall find. That's the beauty of it. PC has infinite possibilities, console is stuck inside a box, and if you want out of it, you need to buy a PC.

Does it actually allow controller remapping? I haven't heard of it before. How does this work exactly?

In competitive multiplayer shooters, you will get stomped by KB/M used if you use a controller. Controller only really has an advantage in racing games.

Digital copies are unlikely to cheaper on consoles anytime soon. The manufacturers are good buddies with Gamestop, so they won't cut them out. Also, there's real competition. It's Sony's/Microsoft's way or the highway on their system. They can charge whatever they like, and there's nothing to really threaten them. It's basically communism.

And can I assume you agree with all the other points that I made off the top of my head?


Edit: we did kind of veer off-topic anyway didn't we? If we got back to Batman, well the original point still stands. This happens all the time, regardless of platform. Except now it's been taken off shelves until it's fixed. I don't think that's ever happened on console with a AAA game.

If people cared so much about graphics, the PC version of a game would sell way more than console versions. Even here (a community definitely skewed towards PC gaming compared to most forums), most people don't care if the game is 30fps or 60fps. Console gamers aren't cranky over resolution or fps, PC gamers bring that up more than anyone. Of course, if one console has better resolution or framerate, console gamers talk that shit up mainly for the purpose of demonstrating their console is better than the other. I wouldn't care if console games were 720p, I'd rather have PS4 games look as good as PS3 games but with stuff like better AI vs better graphics.

Like I said, I don't see how Microcenter can beat Newegg in price especially when I don't pay tax with Newegg. I really don't see how you can put together a decent gaming PC for much less than $500 outside of buying used/refurb PCs/parts on eBay. Hell, the company I work for literally sold a desktop on eBay for $25 (because they don't know how to sell shit on eBay), it only had an Athlon II but you could use it for parts in your own build.

You get free games (yeah, that aren't really free) every month with PS+ so there's a few free games every year on PS+ that I do want to play and I don't have to buy those games, that's how I played XCOM, it was free within a year. You do get better discounts as well. PS+ does allow me to sell games that are multiplayer or have DLC that I'd hang onto if it wasn't for PS+. I sold Bioshock Infinite and still played the DLC because the game is free for PS+ users. Sony takes your money and actually uses it for something for the gamers vs how MS just puts stuff you're already entitled to and lets you have it back if you pay them. Hell, the one console manufacturer, MS, that actually makes a browser is the only console last-gen that didn't have a browser merely to make you pay for free stuff like Facebook. Yeah, I know, the online thing is BS and PS3 didn't have it, at least PS+ is worth it vs Live not being worth it.

I'm not saying mods don't improve the game but they don't improve it that much (I'm sure there's exceptions). I can't really see how a mod of my favorite games like say Shadow of the Colossus, MGS, Bayonetta, etc. would make those games a decent amount better. Most of the Skyrim mods are all graphical stuff. I read that the Skyrim Interesting NPCs wasn't that good, well-written or that well voiced nor does it fix the bad writing/questing of the main quests of Skyrim. Good writing is very hard to find in gaming and I very much doubt non-professionals doing stuff for free is going to be anything special either. Also, Skyrim was a massively popular game and most games don't get the mod attention of Skyrim like I only see 4 mods for Dishonored (and none of them I'd even care about). I very rarely hear about a mod for a game I've played where I was like "that's awesome, I wish I could install it."

You probably can't name a free-to-play game I would want to play. I heard good things about Warframe but Mass Effect 3's MP is way better. I chose the PS4 because it has the games I want to play regardless if they are free or not, there's nothing I'm anticipating more than The Last Guardian or Horizon right now. There's not that many PC exclusives that I do want to play as I'm not a fan of genres that are big on PC like RTSs, MMOs, etc. Any PC games I am interested in aren't F2P like Shadowrun and Divinity OS.

Controller remapping can be done in the PS4's OS in the accessibility options so a game doesn't need any remapping options to remap the controls. No more fucking pressing L3 to sprint in FPSs.

I know the mouse gives you better aim but I hate using the keyboard for gaming.

Because physical copies exist (and will for awhile as like you said, they aren't going to cut out retailers), it really isn't Sony/MS's way or the highway. I don't buy games off PSN unless it's a really good price.

Like I said, console games are way way more likely to work vs PC games. I know the vast majority of PC games work for a vast majority of users. But there's those times when even big releases (like Batman) can't be played by quite a lot of PC gamers whereas that very very rarely happens (there's always the exception or anomaly) on consoles.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Darksouls Blighttown would love to talk to you about that 'run perfectly fine' bit... among other examples. Funnily enough, the PC version, for all its faults, didn't even cough there, let alone struggle.

I played Dark Souls and the framerate chugged a bit in Blighttown but it was very playable, it's not like any basic enemies are actually difficult in the Souls' games to where a few less frames would make you die.

To take an argument from your own book, it had the most problems on the PS3, and at the time the forums were filled with PS3s whining about it not working. PC owners were laughing and saying "Lol RAM" and "Lol mods" at that point. Pretty crappy defence from you there. Oh, but I forgot, we need to hold console games to different standards or else your whole argument falls apart. Forgive me, I completely missed that part - anyone would have thought it to be obvious from all the shifting goal posts around here but apparently not me.

PS3 users could still play the game, Skyrim PS3 wasn't taken off store shelves either.

Funny, I thought we were talking about Consoles being more reliable than PCs. That was what your OP was about, so when did this debate shift? When that wasn't a defensible front?
As for consoles that have had problems... N64, PS1, PS2, Xbox 360 on my end. Mates N64 just died at one point, and mine needed the 'cartridge blow' to work after less than a year of ownership. PS1 had aforementioned overheating issue - funnily enough I wasn't talking about the PS3 or Xbox 360 with that one, I was talking first gen. PS2 had the exact same problem. Xbox 360, as said, Red Ring of Death. One of my friends had that happen but was lucky enough to have a father who works in console maintenance, who pulled it apart, shoved in new parts, and put it back together and got it working again.
So, lets not pretend that it was only last gen that has been any less than perfect for consoles. Every generation has had its problems.

All hardware has failure rates. None of my consoles ever broke besides my PS3. With PS2, all you had to do was clean the lens. I had a launch PS2 that still worked a year into PS360 gen. I'm talking about buying a game and it working. PCs have hardware issues too.

By your own criteria [Which you have mentioned later to not include online problems] most first party PC games work fine out of the box day 1. Of course, this counts Sim City, Diablo III, and any number of other really shit launches that didn't work because of online issues. Oh, but that's fine, because we don't count those sorts of things by your own excuses.

The online problems with Sim City and Diablo caused people to not be able to play the game that are basically offline games. Online lag even happened in Daiblo when playing by yourself. Were console gamers unable to play Dark Souls if the online was down? Having matchmaking/mic/etc. issues in MP is different because you can still play the campaign just fine. All online games have very similar issues at launch.

Oh, MKX had server issues alround. However on the PS4 licenses were removed from the users versions causing an error CE-34878-0 which, from what everyone reports on that I've found, affected exclusively PS4 users. Warner Brothers claimed it was Sony, Sony claimed it was Warner Bros. Fun.

That didn't stop people from playing MKX.

I could go on.

For every rare console instance you bring up, I can bring up at least 10 more PC instances. Are you seriously trying to argue that PC has less issues than consoles?

If a man is to count Console exclusives as a plus, then they must also count PC exclusives AND mods.
Anything else is hypocrisy.

As for War Thunder... it is better than 99% of online paid games. Eastern European games do that by default at this stage...

The rest we have argue before. You wont change though. As long as you are happy getting the inferior, mortal, bad for the industry, more expensive experience... well suit yourself.

Just had to explain those two

What are you even going on about? I didn't even say anything in regards to console exclusives being a plus in the post you quoted. Mods are so overrated, I just looked up Dishonored mods as the game is on my mind (with the sequel coming plus I just bought the DLC) and there's 4 Dishonored mods (3 for difficulty, 1 for dismemberment); none of them I'd even care about. I know there's some awesome mods out there but you act like every game has all these awesome mods when they don't. It's not that mods aren't a plus, it's that they are a very small plus as they usually don't fix the core issues I have with games.

War Thunder isn't my cup of tea as I didn't say it was bad, just that I don't want to play it.

 

[Vigormortis]

I'd make the "Is this thread from 2005?" joke, given the absurdity in the OP, but even that wouldn't be completely apt. Consoles have had issues with games not functioning properly going as far back as the Atari, so...

Nonsensical argument is nonsensical.

'Course, the crux of most of the OPs arguments thus far have been "I don't like this, therefore it's bad and no one else should like it either." so I'm not surprised.

 

[Strelok]

If people cared so much about graphics, the PC version of a game would sell way more than console versions.

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/report-a-vast-number-of-multi-platform-games-sell-better-on-the-pc-than-on-xbox-one/

Let's start with Alien: Isolation. Alien: Isolation sold 120K PC retail copies and 320K Xbox One retail copies. Moreover, according to Steamspy the game sold 427K copies on Steam (do note that this is not a Steamworks powered game, so we can add those numbers in order to find out the real PC sales). This means that Alien: Isolation sold 547K copies on the PC and 426K copies on Xbox One (320K retail + 106K digital).

Dying Light is another example in which the PC version outsells the Xbox One version. The game sold 640K units on Steam, whereas the Xbox One version hit 506K units (both retail and digital sales. Note that we?re not even adding any retail numbers to the PC version in this case).

Lords of the Fallen is yet another example of the PC topping Xbox One. The game sold 218K units on Steam and 146K units on Xbox One (both retail and digital sales counted for Xbox One).

Square Enix?s THIEF also sold amazingly well on the PC. THIEF managed to hit 1 million sold units on the PC. On the other hand, Square Enix sold 506K units on Xbox One (both retail and digital sales counted).

Tomb Raider also sold better on the PC. Nixxes did an amazing job with the port and while the game was released at a later date on Xbox One, its sales never came close to those of its PC version. Tomb Raider sold 3 million units on Steam and 440K units on Xbox One (both retail and digital sales counted).

Dark Souls II also sold better on the PC than on Xbox One, and the same can be said about Resident Evil: Revelations 2, Sleeping Dogs, Metro: Last Light, Diablo III and Sniper Elite 3.

This one surprised me.

What's also interesting is that GTA V - a game that was released almost half a year later on the PC ? has caught up with Xbox One's sales. According to Take-Two, over 75 percent of GTA V owners on the PC have purchased their copy digitally, meaning that the game has sold ? this far ? 3.33 million units on the PC. For comparison purposes, the game sold 3.6 million units on Xbox One.

Honestly I hope no one is taking this "PC tech" seriously? I wonder if he/she is telling the truth? If so do you have any influence over corporate IT direction? If you do after Heartbleed I bet the entirety of the company secrets and client info are spread across Russia and China, good job comrade. I will take a stab in the dark and guess "PC tech" is actually tier one phone support for an internet service provider.

 

[Charli]

I don't PC game to play Triple A titles though. So, to each their own.