'Be a man'!
- Thread starter Scarecrow
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OT: I think it is wrong to say to "man up". It's mostly just a cultural expectation that it is wrong for a man to show weakness. It could be that people are insecure with any sort of emotion and can't deal with them whether first-hand or otherwise. Anyway it's not a big deal either way. People will parrot things regardless of the truth, perhaps to appear wise.
Scarecrow 8 said:
"grow a pair" works for women too
no tits kids
has tits adult woman
or another way don't be such a baby (also the same sentiment), or if you perfer completly gender netural terms Grow a backbone(spine) is the exactly same sentiment
sentiment or symantics
Real men aren't afraid to cry, because they know they'll be the hell out of anyone who laughs.
Crying is ok if it's warrented IE:When the dog i had since i was 7 died you better belive i cried my eyes out (15 yrs old). But is NOT ok if it's about something petty like say, geting a D on a test.
But remeber when in public, Stiff upper lip old boy. When in private let it all on out.
Crying is ok if it's warrented IE:When the dog i had since i was 7 died you better belive i cried my eyes out (15 yrs old). But is NOT ok if it's about something petty like say, geting a D on a test.
But remeber when in public, Stiff upper lip old boy. When in private let it all on out.
I´ll wager that i´have a lot more friend who did´dnt come home from Bosnia, Iraq or Afghanistan if they been, a lot less macho about seeing good friends, children or just common decent people being blown up to pieces. If they been able to shed some tears or allwoing themselves to feel those "unforbidden feelings", when the withessed whatever event instead of just bottling up some unforbidden feeling inside.
Well theres a difference between a truly depressed person and someone who's just whining. The depressed person you should help without using the phrase in question and and whiner you should just berate into either depression or shutting up.
Ah, gender roles and equality, where double standard is the king with budding compatriots social compliance and confirmation bias.
I've seen and heard a lot of people say fight for a women's rights and show she's not just a subservient housewife, and yet never once have i heard anyone fight for male rights. That we're not all MANLY MASCULINE MEN WHO DO MAN STUFF. You know, not the kind of guy who's automatically good at DIY, doesn't enjoy sport, and yes - is the emotional, sensitive type. You know what's even more bigoted than this? The supposed belief that anyone fitting this description is also a homosexual. I don't know if that's just exclusive to where i was brought up, but that's the assumption - if you don't do MANLY MAN things, you're too soft, too girly and probably gay because you're not enough of a MANLY MAN. How nice.
I really hate the term "be a man", even if it is just a 'figure of speech', because i can tell you now whether it's meant to be taken as a literal term or not it's just as damning as saying 'you're too girly / sensitive / some other variant'. It implies that there's still a gender divide because hey, MANLY MEN control the world right? And that women are somehow lesser because - oh look, they can't "be a man". Even if, again, they could "metaphorically" it's still pretty damn offensive. It'd be better if people said "toughen up" or something similar. Aside from that, it's complete blatant ignorance of the other party's feelings and neglects the fact that, actually, maybe there is something wrong that can't be overcome just by pounding one's chest like a fucking ape.
The fact "be a man" is still such a prevalent phrase in today's society shows gender equality still has a loooong way to go. For both genders. And let's not even talk about the rampant xenophobia and other equality issues That's another topic for another time.
I've seen and heard a lot of people say fight for a women's rights and show she's not just a subservient housewife, and yet never once have i heard anyone fight for male rights. That we're not all MANLY MASCULINE MEN WHO DO MAN STUFF. You know, not the kind of guy who's automatically good at DIY, doesn't enjoy sport, and yes - is the emotional, sensitive type. You know what's even more bigoted than this? The supposed belief that anyone fitting this description is also a homosexual. I don't know if that's just exclusive to where i was brought up, but that's the assumption - if you don't do MANLY MAN things, you're too soft, too girly and probably gay because you're not enough of a MANLY MAN. How nice.
I really hate the term "be a man", even if it is just a 'figure of speech', because i can tell you now whether it's meant to be taken as a literal term or not it's just as damning as saying 'you're too girly / sensitive / some other variant'. It implies that there's still a gender divide because hey, MANLY MEN control the world right? And that women are somehow lesser because - oh look, they can't "be a man". Even if, again, they could "metaphorically" it's still pretty damn offensive. It'd be better if people said "toughen up" or something similar. Aside from that, it's complete blatant ignorance of the other party's feelings and neglects the fact that, actually, maybe there is something wrong that can't be overcome just by pounding one's chest like a fucking ape.
The fact "be a man" is still such a prevalent phrase in today's society shows gender equality still has a loooong way to go. For both genders. And let's not even talk about the rampant xenophobia and other equality issues That's another topic for another time.
It's almost always inappropriate.
Using it cruelly to say something is trivial.
I've seen a few threads where the poster is just whining without a real issue but you have no idea what mental state triggered that post. It could be childish foot stomping, attention seeking or mild self doubt but it could equally be serious mental debilitation.
Using it 'cheer someone up' or as an opening to give advice on something to do.
When I'm depressed, after a few months,I reach a state where literally feel nothing. Your insincere pap might be welcome as it could make me feel something... something between irritated and raging.
Even in the early stages the best you'd get is "I don't feel sad nor is anything grieving me, I'm just incapable of being happy for now."
If their your friend and they are just wallowing in some self pity, not actual depression, then sure it might be okay (sadness and depression are not the same. Sadness still needs to be expressed but you can be cheered up ) but there's probably better ways to express yourself.
Using it tell someone to ignore their 'not real' problems.
Mmm...macho bullshit. It's backwards, sexist crap that leads to all manner of mental problems from severe feelings of inadequacy right through to full on break downs just because they don't want to be seen expressing emotions.
Joking "man up" speeches to coerce someone into a dare.
Nothing to see here; self-deprecating social commentary is all good.
unrelated
The other comments you often see on such threads are often about suicide. just as bad experiences usually don't lead to depression, depression won't usually lead to suicide. It just depends on the person, although oblviously it's the most dangerous symptom.
In my experience suicide seems just pointless and unworthy of thought as anything else.
I suppose if I were religious I might have a positive to see in it, although the padre that visited the priory thought I wouldn't get depressed in the first place if I believed in god.
I chose, after some work related problems that had both myself and my wife away from our children for almost a year, to leave work and stay at home to look after the family as a whole.
yeah, I cook, clean get the kids ready in a morning and talk to\play with\teach them after school. It's usually pretty fulfilling to be honest.
The amount of times people have said I need to get a job the instant I say what I do is annoying. The same people don't see the hypocrisy of having a housewife when they say it either, worse some of them have been housewives.
Using it cruelly to say something is trivial.
I've seen a few threads where the poster is just whining without a real issue but you have no idea what mental state triggered that post. It could be childish foot stomping, attention seeking or mild self doubt but it could equally be serious mental debilitation.
Using it 'cheer someone up' or as an opening to give advice on something to do.
When I'm depressed, after a few months,I reach a state where literally feel nothing. Your insincere pap might be welcome as it could make me feel something... something between irritated and raging.
Even in the early stages the best you'd get is "I don't feel sad nor is anything grieving me, I'm just incapable of being happy for now."
If their your friend and they are just wallowing in some self pity, not actual depression, then sure it might be okay (sadness and depression are not the same. Sadness still needs to be expressed but you can be cheered up ) but there's probably better ways to express yourself.
Using it tell someone to ignore their 'not real' problems.
Mmm...macho bullshit. It's backwards, sexist crap that leads to all manner of mental problems from severe feelings of inadequacy right through to full on break downs just because they don't want to be seen expressing emotions.
Joking "man up" speeches to coerce someone into a dare.
Nothing to see here; self-deprecating social commentary is all good.
unrelated
The other comments you often see on such threads are often about suicide. just as bad experiences usually don't lead to depression, depression won't usually lead to suicide. It just depends on the person, although oblviously it's the most dangerous symptom.
In my experience suicide seems just pointless and unworthy of thought as anything else.
I suppose if I were religious I might have a positive to see in it, although the padre that visited the priory thought I wouldn't get depressed in the first place if I believed in god.
Yeah gender equality is my latest bugbear.Gralian said:
I chose, after some work related problems that had both myself and my wife away from our children for almost a year, to leave work and stay at home to look after the family as a whole.
yeah, I cook, clean get the kids ready in a morning and talk to\play with\teach them after school. It's usually pretty fulfilling to be honest.
The amount of times people have said I need to get a job the instant I say what I do is annoying. The same people don't see the hypocrisy of having a housewife when they say it either, worse some of them have been housewives.
It's more about how you express your emotions rather then if you express your emotions. Case in point: I don't care whether you're a man or a woman, if you're crying non-stop over something insanely stupid, then I'm afraid I view you as rather pathetic (real people dying is fine, but I've honestly slapped a friend of mine because he cried when his WoW character was accidently wiped). If you say something like 'I'm really down and depressed, because...' and talk to me about it, then I can better understand the problem and give advice. For me it's about what's effective, and what's just plain useless.
would it help if man was from the latin word manus meaning hand which is being used poetically to repressent having control, the word manufacture does not mean a bloke made it means it was created by humans the man in mankind for instance is also the signifyer of hu"man"ity as something which has a hand.Gralian said:
same with all the other words like handyman a person skilled with hands on work or manpower as in having all hands on deck.
It has zero to do with gender
beside toughen up isn't advice its please shut up about your problems because I don't want to hear them is the actually meaning of those phrases.
Not showing emotions is public is not reguarded as weakness but as social politness to not burden other by bringing down the general atmosphere, offloading your problems onto other that have no wish to be shared with is impolite and selfish
It's situational. There are times when things just suck, and there's, quite literally, nothing you can do about it. These are the times when it's acceptable to get bummed out.
To be honest, though, most of the problems you see on gaming forums like these are pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things. Girl problems, school problems, "My parents took away my Xbox because I failed Algebra, they don't understand me" problems... Yeah, that's nothing. Cowboy up and deal with it. It's not always gonna be easy, and it's not always gonna be fun, but they aren't insurmountable problems by any means.
Problems like having a sibling with cancer, or being laid off the month before Christmas, or not knowing how you're gonna pay your bills... Those are real problems, and I'd never suggest that someone suffering from them "be a man" about it. It just doesn't work like that.
To be honest, though, most of the problems you see on gaming forums like these are pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things. Girl problems, school problems, "My parents took away my Xbox because I failed Algebra, they don't understand me" problems... Yeah, that's nothing. Cowboy up and deal with it. It's not always gonna be easy, and it's not always gonna be fun, but they aren't insurmountable problems by any means.
Problems like having a sibling with cancer, or being laid off the month before Christmas, or not knowing how you're gonna pay your bills... Those are real problems, and I'd never suggest that someone suffering from them "be a man" about it. It just doesn't work like that.
Depends on what people are getting depressed about. People on this thread are talking about how depression is no joking matter, and saying "be a man" is ignorant. Well sometimes you do just have to get over it, like if your girlfriend of 6 months dumped you and you say you feel depressed...well thats something you can get over and not wallow around in your own misery. Now if your wife divorced you and now you are having some financial problems, well maybe you should vent that stuff out, talk to someone AND THEN move on. But I hate how people look into the phrase too deeply about how its sexist, or how it is trying to create some kind of emotionless robot. Sometimes people need a good kick in the butt and be told to cut something out or that they are being an idiot, because if people sit around and mumble about petty problems than life is a hell of a lot worse than it seems and that's when you feel like your in a downward spiral that never ends. You have to do something about it sooner or later...
I feel people who say 'be a man' or 'man up' and all that are trying to force a part of themselves or their opinions on others, after all we all have a different opinion on things or how to handle situations and telling someone to 'be a man' because something that wouldn't upset you but upset them is kind of imposing, thats my thoughts anyway.
As for me? People can tell me to man up if they want, doesn't mean I will pay attention I prefer to be myself.
As for me? People can tell me to man up if they want, doesn't mean I will pay attention I prefer to be myself.
It's over-the-top, but at the same time people do really need to move on, and wallowing in self-pity will do you no good either. So I'm kinda stuck in a hard place on this one.
