"Bioshock".... yet another zippy rant.

[ZippyDSMlee]

I liked Bioshock for it's story, but something about the gameplay just seemed...lacking. I still liked the game overall, but it wasn't the wondrous piece of gaming that a lot of people made it out to be.

This is what I mean yet I might go overboard in my loathing of it?.it could have been so much more if they finished what they were going for with the gamepaly implementations its like they stopped half way in-between things to just launch it, it just pisses the every loving hell out of me.
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snip

I feel kind of silly defending the guy I was arguing with (sorta), but...
Popularity =/= Quality
Popularity is not really a good measure for quality.
Cooking Mama is one of the best selling franchises Nintendo has ever made. Good quality?
GTA is one of the most popular franchises in today's market? Good quality? (not in my opinion)
Crysis is highly acclaimed. Good quality?
Sonic games sell really well. Good quality? (This one injures me as I still have that damned Dreacast shirt)
Halo is popular...
I could keep going,b ut the point he brought up and the point you refute is that quality is not told by the popularity it recieves. Quality is also, to a degree, a matter of perspective. Some say FF7 was the best FF ever. Some say it was the worst. I still play my copy. I know people who outright refused to play it after the first try. Whatever.

This quoted for greater truth. Yes I realize that I am drooling the inane 22% when I rant at a game such as this but ...but... its just so frustrating to see such such high levels of of compromising whats truly good for whats truly mundane.... yes I know its all in the eye of the beholder but... come on things could be so much better if "we" all started to hold to just slightly higher standards....

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I'll be honest and say, I didn't enjoy Bioshock as much as I had hoped.

I remember people dragged it out as though it's something worth high praises and framing. "9 out of 10!", "10 out of 10!", "is there a number higher than 10 out of 10?!" and "game of the year!" were things frequently shouted (well, except the third quote, although I get the impression that give it time, it would of been said). I bought it expecting an enjoyable experience and an enjoyable experience I got. You may think at this stage I'm a lover of Bioshock, but no. While the story, the graphics and concept were good, great and amazing (in that order), there was something that somewhat died in the process: Game-play.

I will admit that no matter what I hear, I go into a game expecting certain game-play elements. Since first person shooter is the genre, I'll use that example. I go into first person shooters expecting enemies that pose a challenge beyond "oh no, I can't get hit any more or I'll die" after being hit about five times over the course of about twenty enemies. This, I will admit, I did not really get. While they were a challenge in their own right, splicers with guns really threw me off sometimes, some parts just felt either "...What?" (the turrets for instance) and others were just stupid in terms of how strong they were (Big Daddys mainly). I know, I know, Big Daddys are meant to be strong beasts. However, and it's hard to put my finger on it, it just weren't right.

Another thing I expect from a first person shooter is checkpoints that are nicely spaced out within reason. This is where Bioshock fell on it's face to me. So I kill a load of people, I just come back near by with no penalty with all the enemies I have killed still dead and I can have another bash. It's really one reason, for me, why the game personally flopped.

I will also admit that through-out the game-play and the different enviroments, there was something else I couldn't quite put my finger on that spoilt it.

Yes the game is not all that , even I can say its built to a higher slandered than other ?modern games? and such but my lord the standard are so low these days one kinda has to have played better, care about details and quality or just be a self pew smoking nitpicker(all of which I can fall into said category?.some easier than others?.no wonder I haz BO?..)
The game play just dose not meld together well you have decently prepared bits and bobs sloped together in a disconjointed manner its quite nerve wrecking when you play a game on the knifes edger of liking it enough to keep playing and you hope the game produces something that keeps you?but ggahhh the game just slowly goes downhill the more you play it??
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How good bioshock is really depends on who's playing it, if you came in expecting yet another fast paced FPS you would probably be disappointed, however, if you are a fan of good use of atmosphere in games; are fascinated by moral philosophy and enjoy creative level design, then bioshock would be a game you wouldn't want to miss

This is pretty much spot on.

I loved everything about Bioshock with the exception of its flawed combat mechanics (and the shocking bugs on the PC version).

IMO Bioshock just needed another 6 months in development and it could have been one of the greatest FPS games of all time.

My god, I have never seen someone abuse the ellipsis that much in one post.

I have to disagree with utterly everything you have said there. I wouldn't say it's anywhere near unfinished, the gunplay, whilst sluggish at times, does work fairly well.


PS: Please, tone down the ellipsis use?

I would have to learn proper grammar first, grammar and zippy is like oil and water.

Just learn proper grammar. Its like spelling, if you can't do it everyone assumes you're an idiot before they finish reading your post.

Half the people arguing with you are probably doing so because your grammar failure betrays the legitimate sentiment of your argument.

Give me money for tutorship?

I am a learning disabled adult, I can be quit a pain when it comes to learning and not all of it is my fault exclusively, when it comes to gaming I can get into a OCD zone and harshly criticize a game for lacking X or Y, FO3 for skill and equipment issues for the "WHOLE" game, DA for not being polished in spells,2ndary classes and enhancements/poison and BS for being a on the rails watered down RPG lite game.....
======================

So, um, I think when you refer to games that are "about the experience", what you are really referring to is "games that do not cater to my very specific tastes". Bioshock was a game about story, presented in a very inventive way, that asked the player some very thought-provoking questions along the way. That was the main idea you seem to have missed. The mechanics of gameplay were perfectly solid, at the very least, and the presentation was top-notch. You're just griping about graphics and your personal tastes.

You may find Tolstoy to be a boring read but that doesn't make it bad literature. I could just as easily call out Dark Messiah for having a derivative, cliche fantasy setting and adding nothing unique or memorable to the cultural stage.

Well IMO the experience is very canned and soundbite ish, the high production values did not glaze over what it?s lacking.

And there were not that many thought provoking experience not when the LS?s die anyway, not when everything boils down to doing something worse for more X,Y,Z or doing something better for more X,Y,Z? I found it all a bit to predictable and the fall back to gameplay, which tends to be my first pick of something to enjoy well the more I played ti the more wonky and cumbersome it felt, if I want to watch a lulz fest I?ll turn on bleach or gintama or some ecchi harem love crap, but if I want to enjoy a good quality game?I can?t because mainstreaming has made most things suck and there no cheat device to balance out the fun factor to a crappy game anymore?.??


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It was 7 hours of Fetch Quests, with an annoying escort mission near the end.
Couple that with shitty gameplay, and a piss poor ending.
Why is it so praised?

I dunno same reason twilight has made money hand over fist people are complacent with bad and do not strive for better in much of anything?. I mean look at politics?we are sheep?..

=================

I think you went into Bioshock with the wrong mindset.

The shooting in it comes secondary to the story and exploring of Rapture.

It was a very flawed game in some ways (clunky shooting, endless fetch quests, boring final 2 hours, awful character models) but still remains a pioneering classic and one that I will often revisit.

The trouble is I went into it with a SS2/DX/DM 1 mindset and what I got was a watered down over simplified for prime time(mainstreamed) game not only is the gameplay broken IMO so is the story and dailog fed to you in sound bites... I was hoping for a fun and interesting game and got neither.....
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Bioshock's gameplay was hollow, full of repetitive grab and fetch quests and bland weaponry.

The story was kinda interesting, but I prefer to interact with characters instead of listening to them chatter on in recordings.

The most kick-ass thing in bioshock was the opening. By far one of the best game openings I've seen in recent times. After that, it fell flat, and didn't recover.

I gave up on it after many hours of struggling to stay interested. This was when hard drive space was an issue for me, an I needed 18gb for GTA IV, a game which I still play occasionally, and certainly more fun then Bioshock.

And that's what games ultimately come down to: fun.
Bioshock was not fun. It had a great concept, average storytelling, next to no meaningful interaction with NPC's other than enemies, and very repetitive quests.

I restarted it acouple times but its still the most bland and under development thing I have played since Jericho, BS has all the right parts, and for the mainstream sheep is perfect but my wooly is jaded and I can not find that much to praise BS for its not a game as much as a film you have to play.....

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You suck! Bioshock is great! FTW!!!!

We all suck at something I just cannot stand modern games all that much >>
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You dislike BioShock and Fallout 3? Two of the five games that make up my pantheon of best games ever? You must be ill. Let's see what criticisms you offer.

combat

Too vague, you're padding your list

weapon balances

Alright, I'll give you that one. The weapons did seem a bit overpowered.

mod implementation

Don't care about this since I'm a console gamer, but if you're critiscizing something that isn't even part of the actual game you are really stretching for reasons to dislike it.

level design

If you're talking about aesthetics you are clearly in need of mental evaluation, the levels were nothing short of stunning. If you're talking about the actual layout of the levels I can't agree with you there either, each level was like it's own self-contained sandbox area that encouraged exploration. I was still finding things I'd never found on my fifth or even sixth playthrough.

AI

I'll give you that one too since Big daddies could be crippled just by electro-bolting them, makling them far too easy to kill.

Graphical glitches

Besides the occasional slow loading of textures I don't know what you're talking about.

PC mouse issues

Again, console gamer. No control issues on my end.

Dailog

I assume you mean "Dialogue" In which case I don't see how you can dislike what is easily one of the best parts of the game, unless you mean the lack of dialogue from the protagonist.

Item pacing.

Bwuh? Do you mean the over-abundance of items? If so I'd only half agree since sometimes I found myself swimming in ammo and other times I'd be fighting Big Daddies with nothing but a wrench.

Overall only some of your criticisms are valid, but they are no reason to dislike the game entirely.

No you think I was asking if he wanted me to go into each aspect fully, I gave the aspects but not the list, was waiting on the approval to go into full rant mode , I will be doing that at the end of all these posts.

Mod implementation is the weapon mods not SDK made mods, I should have clerfied that, it dose rub me the wrong way that the console devs can not allow for mods to be used (USB? dduuhhhhh) Hell there are many ways to do this as so you can make money one way mail a mod at 1$ a pop, you can select from a list and buy it or send it to your account for downloading for 1$, or buy a 10$ mod account where you can upload mods to your game, I swear the industry is doing everything they can to go backwards not forwards....

I dunno the mix of poorly implemented things and its fame just boils nerdy rage into me hardcore style...sure its above average but its mediocre by standards 10+ years ago.....

Itemized list at the end of my replies.
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bioshock was fun and an overall amazing game. nothing you can say or rant about is going to change that. also if you hate bioshock that much then just dont play it

Good for you,but you must realize what kind of damage mainstreaming dose, sure I am the black sheeple here..with fleas and all.... but come on they could have done better but the reason they didn't is the same reason why music sucks so much these days they do not have to change because there are plenty of people willing to buy crap...
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bioshock was fun and an overall amazing game. nothing you can say or rant about is going to change that. also if you hate bioshock that much then just dont play it

Good for you,but you must realize what kind of damage mainstreaming dose, sure I am the black sheeple here..with fleas and all.... but come on they could have done better but the reason they didn't is the same reason why music sucks so much these days they do not have to change because there are plenty of people willing to buy crap...

=============

It was 7 hours of Fetch Quests, with an annoying escort mission near the end.
Couple that with shitty gameplay, and a piss poor ending.
Why is it so praised?

Deep Philosophy, story intergrated into gameplay, freeform combat and a unique and interesting aesthetic/artsytle.

Am I the only one who finds it painful to read the OP? It's some of the most poorly writen and incoherent writing I've seen in a long time.

Sure its deep?as deep as the deep end of the kiddy pool will allow it?.. some are just very unwilling to look beyond the paint job to find out their love and pride is a rusted bucket of bolts?.
======================

AI is deaf half the time it will only act on begin damages or seeing you, the rest of the time its on a radius setting. The water and health scripts are cute but compare it to Fear,MGS,DM and other games that have human like AI that can be distracted by tossing a rock soemwhere or they chase your Shadow but not you...

What are you actually fighting in Bioshock? That's right! You are fighting mentally degenerated addicts... have you ever listened to their ramblings? How can you compare an enemy representing that, to a super soldier from FEAR. I think they were a bit more clever in AI design than you thought/think.

So its ok to have AI as complex as from the DOOM age because the enemies are mental defects?
Well I will just have to write off bad designs to the level of intelligence of the characters portrayed.......NOT!!.....

I liked halo 1

THE DISCUSSION SHOULD END RIGHT HERE!

Why? It had great AI for its time, solid set of weapons really liked the indestructible vehicles but most of all it was fun and well balanced and had a decent story/plot/characters for a FPS or action film...I guess BS is more on the SW new eps or battlefield earth...or transformers....*shudders*

Halo 2 and 3....are just a shadow of what Halo use to be.... both watered down and under developed to meet the design spec of the times...

Cryisis was weak.....

But you said a magic line, so it picks up again.

Well it was weak there was no pacing in the game, you went from one sand box environment to the next story/plot was bad.... Far cry was alot better.

I have played alot of games so much better than BS

That might be, but I haven't. I call personal preference. You just didn't like it.
I do and it's a shame that you aren't able to fully appreciate it.

Sorry I want parts of it deep than the kiddy pool, dark messiah might be crap story/plot/characters wise but they tried something new with combat and it mostly worked and the AI was worked on unlike BS, BS is shallow and under developed...

LOL

Stop That.

Why? sure its old net lingo but its better than leet anyday! lulz!
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Bioshock is lacking. Watch Yahtzee's review for exactly how I feel about it.

It's a casual game disguised as a hardcore game. I found it lacking and unmoving.

i believe that yahtzee didnt say it was lacking.... i heard him most rant on about that it was bassically a system shock 2 clone, and that the moral choices are to contrasted and jaring.... that doesnt sound like a game that is lacking to me thanks

the only thing that the game lacked was possibly an inventory.. but it didnt NEED an inventory

He called it a dumbed down piss easy SS2 clone, he have went off on the mainstreamedized POS?.. its not even a SS2 clone?.well the fetch quests are kinda like SS2?.

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snip

how is bioshock unfinished and incomplete?
are you sure you were playing, or even played bioshock?
and do tone it down with the elipses. for god's sake i don't even abuse them that much.

Do you really want me to go through an itemized list? I can, lets see main topics to the list will be combat,weapon balances,mod implementation,level design, AI,plasmids ,graphical glitches,PC mouse issues,Dailog,Item pacing.

Basically the over all implementation over everything together makes it feel unfinished,same with Dragon age and Fallout 3.... but at least dragon age was worth buying..... .

Combat, so you're basically ripping on it for being a shooter, and as such, has pistols, shotguns, machine guns, heavier weapons and a melee weapon?

weapon balances? why weapon balances? i felt they implemented it pretty realistically, because recoil's a *****.

mod implementation? you mean the tonics and weapon upgrades? the tonics play into the ADAM gathering and upgrading in several ways to test out ways you want to play. the weapon mods upgrade the weapons and fit into the "art deco steampunk" style.

level design? it's amazing. going into the bathesphere and seeing the entire underwater metropolis like a 1940's version of Atlantis and the different parts of Rapture fit in to support a city on the ocean bed.

AI... it was a bit weak but at least tough.

Plasmids, once again, if you picked up Audio logs throughout the game, it explains ADAM and the plasmids, also giving a new ability for shooters instead of firing away with a gun.

Graphical Glitches: that depends on the hardware you play it on, because i played the ps3 version and didn't experience this at all.

PC mouse.... hell that's why there's the "OPTIONS" menu to set it to your liking.

Dialog. it was well-preformed. the Splicers idle, searching, interacting, and fighting talk was well implemented and shows the degrade that ADAM and splicing can do to you. also showing on mental illness, which is a growing fear to these days.

Item placing: i will agree with you on that. too much ammo, EVE hypos, first aid kits and money lying around, but that's a minor flaw.

and Unfinished? What makes you think it's unfinished? it was a well-designed game. Fallout 3 was a good game. dragon age looks like a good game... and earlier you mentioned Modern Warfare 2 to other Escapists and you say that it's a trend? OK, MW2's story was butchered short but was a good engrossing story from several different viewpoints of soldiers.

Twilight.... Eh. i hate it. it's not worth a mention... besides this.

Sigh I will need sleep to go into this fully and coherently...least more coherently than what I would do without sleep...LOL

did you even play the game or just a demo?
did you even read or saw any of the Twilight books/movies?
did you even play MW2?
and obviously if you think innovation to games, such as improving story-telling and game play options and modes, is a poison, why are you bothering to rip into Bioshock for being what you're calling "Unfinished and incomplete?" It tells an immersive story, a morality system, albeit it only has 2 choices, but still dictates what kind of person you make Jack in the ending. Gameplay-wise, you couldn't ask for a better sucessor to System Shock 2. Of Course there's going to be flaws in games. No game can be considered perfect. you're obviously asking alot from game companies.
and since you played it for the PC... well you should check on the system requirements before you decide to play it, so it was your own bloody fault for not reading the system requirements.

Yes dear I have, I even skimed the book it seemed a bit better than the film but there again film is aimed at a ..er...stranger audience...., if you can call simplifying and making the audio logs short and sound bite like and the morality system is a joke...its contrived and limited.... not even bioware has been able to do better.... and the gameplay.... my god did you even play it? you can't aim for sht balances are all whack there's sht all over the pale no death mechanic the game is a lulz fest there's little balancing and pacing to it....
======================

Bioshock is not a game its an experience the shooter elements are bad but its not meant to be seen as a FPS as the art deco and design elements make it a wondrous experience.

The sad thing is some people believe that, that somehow an interactive movies "experience" is more important than the sum of its parts...namely game mechanics and anything else as if their mind is turned off and the spooky scripted horror elements surprise and entertain them....oooooo shiny.......... er what...where was I....er...

Ah yes I am so tired of the "Like the experience of" with tone of a IQ depraved rodent(on very very bad days) when people gush about Bioshock or any other under developed modern game..... and yes I looking at you as well Fo3.......

Anyway.... on with my main rant.... (warning block o'text imminent)

I am sorry but dark messiah was far more engrossing due to its advanced game mechanics and AI(story/dailog is much worse than than BS's then again BS's is more sound bites and short hand than full B movie dailog that's offered in most shooter class games.....) BS is well...... a shallow art deco inspired action title that is just....... lacking..............the game it's unfinished and incomplete and under developed when it ever comes out of beta and they fix the lack of a death mechanic,items every f r a k k'i n where on all difficulty settings, wonky weapon balances, retarded AI that if it where not for the "water" and "health" scripts they'd be as bad as Jericho's "see it kill it before it dies" AI ...its not just a lousy shooter but a poorly made game out side of the art design and modlei...er... no the modeling sucks too due to the limits of the console focused 30 FPS cap which twitch's the frame rate randomly on some of the models.........(sigh if they only released a SDK it could have been the best thing ever.........sigh)

Really to gaming its a travesty like the new star war eps are to sci fi films in general and star wars in particular. Sure its popular...but so is twilight and a bunch of other great for the genre they were trying to aim at but to me BS is on the same level as Alpha Prime,Nercovision,Cryostaisis and even (god I can't believe I am saying this) Damnation.... and ya know.... Alpha Prime,Nercovision are more fun........ and Cryostaisis is more engrossing....


PS:yes...I been holding it back till I ran into to many people with the lights off while someone was home.....

seriously, are you just at troll or something?

if you call me a fanboy then fine, im a fanboy, if you are looking for advanced game mechanics then why are you even playing bioshock?

bioshock has a very strong story, atmosphere and moral settings which may not appeal to some gamers who just want to get 20 headshots in a game of CoD.

the atmosphere and story in bioshock is excellent, it tells itself without any major cutscenes to go "he built a underwater city, it went bad, it went bad because"

if you dont like bioshock then why did you bother to tell people that, beacuse some people wont care if you like it or not, seems pritty trollish to me

Bioshock has a decent story given to you in over simplified sound bites unlike SS2 you got parts of lives not simply short sound bites... and the plot is the same thing done in Dead space or SS2 or any horror themed "many" against the few setups it dose have some interesting tweaking the any ryan stuff the 40s/50s art deco its not a total loss as far as art goes but as a game its bland and watered down...
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Wonder what the original Bioshock story would have turned out like They talked about it being based in a secret Nazi underground laboratory which had its own eco system etc etc. Could of been interesting BUT with such a MASSIVE change in direction of Story based on the original idea means they went back to basics to create a new compelling narrative rather than just tacking on something else in an attempt to preserve the original ideas. I mean to start completely from the start with something so different meant they at least thought hard enough to depart from what was probably years (In terms of gestation) of story prep.

I read they did a lot of cutting and adjusting to the story they had a lot more logs and stuff but sided with minimization I suppose it meets deadlines and such??? I just wish devs good get another year for gamepaly improvements?.but such is the medium I guess. We really need more moddable content and cheats no less, the more we can balance to our sence of fun the more we all will be better off!

====================

Ugh, another faux-jaded person who wants to be far more world weary than they are. For the life of me, I can't fathom your point in your OP. Are you just picking random facets of the game and saying they're bad? That's what it seems like to me, and to say it's a travesty because you didn't like it is laughable. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is automatically shit, the great unwashed are allowed to like good things too, you know.

And please, for the love of God, if you're going to try and be a smartarse you can at least get the "smart" bit right by writing a coherent sentence.

I guess a rant of a person who has no life
What I am trying to say is that all the facets of the game are flawed and when they are brought together it makes a luke warm game, that, I cannot fantom why people are so easily assumed and complacent? *sigh* I suppose that?s the price that?s paid for when a hobby/media/medium gets into the mainstream spotlight?.something has to give?.
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Bioshock is lacking. Watch Yahtzee's review for exactly how I feel about it.

It's a casual game disguised as a hardcore game. I found it lacking and unmoving.

i believe that yahtzee didnt say it was lacking.... i heard him most rant on about that it was bassically a system shock 2 clone, and that the moral choices are to contrasted and jaring.... that doesnt sound like a game that is lacking to me thanks

the only thing that the game lacked was possibly an inventory.. but it didnt NEED an inventory

I should have said I found Bioshock lacking, but I'm a long time PC gamer, and to quote the review:

"Which is not to say that it's bad, it's just shallower than was advertised. I suppose if you got the xbox version and are used to insipid boomfests like Halo than Bioshock will seem like the shit, But if you're a long time PC gamer spoiled by more complex FPS-RPG's, then you're in for a kick in the balls. Maybe a gentlier kick in the balls than most, an extremely pretty and well-executed kick in the balls with the best of intentions, but at the end of the day you're still walking funny."

To be more specific, I also found it lacking when compared to the hype and ads.

Ya I thought Quake 4 might be good but that was an all time low for my gaming purchases then BS got my hopes up I maintained doubtful and I did enjoy it for a bit until I started to notice just how bad it was....
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Crappy itemiezed rant
Combat
Since the AI has limited action script and hit locations combat tends to boil down to ?see it kill it before it dies? for the player as much as the AI. Aiming is lose and fuzzy no matter your power/plasmid level.
-----------
Weapon balances
Weapons tend to be over powered or under powered depending on how you got them setup and you never could tweak them just right?.
--------------------------
Weapon mod implementation.
This is where I felt they really dropped the ball instead of giving you more replaceable/removable mods you get a set of very generic mods that are installed once a level?with money and doubleing mod price this could have been a mod system that?s built for a sand box game not a very static arcade shooter.
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AI,
The AI is retarded if it were not for the health and water scripts they would be the same level of dumb you see in shooter like DOOM 1 or Jericho?.. there is just no excuse to use such poor AI in a game that is trying to do so much more.
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Plasmids ,
I did not care one bit that they replaced equipment and items with plasmids?did not like it at all?. But as I played it seemed half where balanced a bit better than the weapons then some are just for the lulz like telekinesis not only does the AI not care about the sound smashing things make but some objects can install kill the AI like ciggertes or wine bottles than heavier objects. No matter my dislike for plasmids they did work at least.

Yes I can admit something in BS did not totally fail?????..
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Graphical glitches,
This is a minor annoyance I am nitpicking, so why not its just piling on?
30FPS issues and texture streaming issues were annoying but that?s it. Least the PC game did not have the 360?s loading issues that locked up the game?..
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PC mouse issues,
This is still not fixed >>
Imagine trying to aim while the reticule is slow and unresponsive(shes slow and she won?t load for me?.. oh red dawf LOL)
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Dailog,

AS I have said before the story is ok but the sound bite treatment to the story is not so ok?. T just drags it all down?
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Item pacing

This is ridiculous just make it play itself already??. Or X10 his money and let him buy things?.at least that way I have some control over it?.. and not feel like every time I turn around theres loot to get ><
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Level design
Play DX,SS2,Metroind prime(first one mostly) or the first 2 thief games BS levels are very flat ,small,non complex not much better than DX 2:IW levels really.... while above average as most FPs are corridor shooters these days it?s still not up to snuff for a game that?s trying to do so much??
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I can call DM better because while it?s both generic and under developed it at least tried BS is a bunch of odds and ends sloped together disconjointedly the only thing it tried is to be better at mainstreamizaion and that is not something to be praised for... ?


PS:If I didn't quote you directly I apologize!

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

My god, I have never seen someone abuse the ellipsis that much in one post.

Just what I was thinking! Please, in moderation

OT: I disagree, as I loved Bioshock

 

[Axolotl]

-snip-

For the love of all that you hold dear don't ever just quote a post that big. Seriously.

 

[Acier]

You're two and a half years late, and nobody really cares.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

-snipped for dramatic effect-

snip

Unfortunately rag reviews default to the standards used by the times, these days they don't sweat the details ,all that matters is if its good enough and good enough equals to above average or more and by those standards mine are to damn high because I expect abit more from a game that talked about giving you more not less.....

I may as well be a game snobb always wanting more but IMO thats better than being complacent with the dumbed down average of the day.....

-snip-

For the love of all that you hold dear don't ever just quote a post that big. Seriously.

Hmmm I'll edit it with a snip

I am just pissed off at the OP's shallow vision


that's all

Well shallow is,thy name BIOSHOCK! And halo ep 3.......and MW2........ME2...oh wait I need to finish it first.....darn semantics..... *hides*

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

DP

 

[FallenJellyDoughnut]

I sincerely hope that english isn't your first language, otherwise use grammar or GTFO. Also, you're aching for a beating, bad-mouthing all those games with little evidence to support your statements, Modern Warfare 2, Mass Effect 2 and Bioshock are popular for a good reason and have many, many devoted fans, some of which may or may not be on this forum, you sir, are either a troll or a downright moron. Good day sir!

 

[Dys]

How good bioshock is really depends on who's playing it, if you came in expecting yet another fast paced FPS you would probably be disappointed, however, if you are a fan of good use of atmosphere in games; are fascinated by moral philosophy and enjoy creative level design, then bioshock would be a game you wouldn't want to miss

If you came expecting a shooter at all you will inevitably be disapointed. While the atmosphere wasn't bad (it was far from the best, but it was further from the worst) it doesn't excuse the terrible gunplay. If they weren't going for a shooter, they should never hard marketed it as one, and they should have implemented a different combat system.

The level design and morals aren't comparable to other games that I've felt did it well (deus ex being the obvious comparison), in fact I'd condem the way the game explored moral, you either kill little girls or you don't..meh.

While I wouldn't go so far as to say I hate the game as the OP has, I certainly don't think it deserved anywhere near to reveiws it got. I struggle to understand how it's rated as a standout game at all.

Modern Warfare 2, Mass Effect 2 and Bioshock are popular for a good reason

And regardless of the quality of those games, that one good reason has to be marketing. I doubt I need to bring up comparisons to miley cyrus and twilight to prove that.

 

[Mechanix]

I agree. Bioshock has a lot of great things and story 2 it. Do tone it down please.

And would you also please tone down your use of numbers in place of words?

Think of it, if Bioshock was as bad of a game as you make it out to be, it wouldn't have the following it does from dedicated gamers and reviewers alike.

Sure, it may not be the best game ever, but it most certainly isn't a travesty. There have been far worse games in history, particularly from the Phillips CDi.

Look at how well Twilight and cod piece 4.5(mw2) is doing... popularity>qaulity my friend, popularity>qaulity.

And if you think MW2 is a "bad" game then I really don't care for what you have to say anymore.

 

[Susan Arendt]

I agree. Bioshock has a lot of great things and story 2 it. Do tone it down please.

And would you also please tone down your use of numbers in place of words?

Think of it, if Bioshock was as bad of a game as you make it out to be, it wouldn't have the following it does from dedicated gamers and reviewers alike.

Sure, it may not be the best game ever, but it most certainly isn't a travesty. There have been far worse games in history, particularly from the Phillips CDi.

Look at how well Twilight and cod piece 4.5(mw2) is doing... popularity>qaulity my friend, popularity>qaulity.

Alright, so I guess that since games like Psychonauts/Okami/Shadow of the Colossus/Bioshock have a devoted fanbase, that means they're rubbish? Might I remind you of how popular Ocarina of Time is, or perhaps the original star wars trilogy? Bioshock may not be the greatest game out there, but at least it dares to do things different, a trait that seems to be lacking in today's industry.

Edit: And you're taking digs at Fallout 3 and Dragon Age too? Forgive me, but it seems like you don't truly appreciate game immersion for what it is.

Thats all well and fine that BS has fans but its watering down the industry and that I can not stand.... they have done nothing differently they took a design aesthetic from SS2 or dues ex and raped it/dumbed it down.... they are doing what everyone else is doing..... its not even on the same levels as the other games mentioned....

In a word, bullshit.

Now, you're not going to get me admiring BioShock for its fine shooter qualities, because its actual gameplay, while solid, is far from innovative. It's a decent shooter, no more, no less. What elevates BioShock is the way it tells its story. The level to which you choose to delve into Rapture's history is entirely up to you. If you want to seek out and listen to every last audio diary, you can, but you lose nothing (gamewise) if you don't. Looking at the graffiti on the walls, listening to the jukeboxes, soaking up all the atmosphere that helps you really understand what Rapture is about is purely a matter of choice. You can just go in, plasmids blazing, and still have a great experience, or you can take extra time and explore. That's not "watering down" the industry, that's empowering it. Developers typically have the choice to make a story-based game or an action game, depending on the kind of audience they want to attract, but BioShock illustrated that you can do both.

Bottom line, you're either a troll who's bored and picking a fight before the release of BioShock 2, or you simply don't like the game (which is perfectly valid) and because it doesn't meet your personal standards, it's somehow hurting the industry.

 

[katsabas]

Wow. Whoever wrote this rant seems to have the answer to every question. Where were you 2 and a half years ago? You know, when the game first came out? Every SANE gamer actually does a little bit of research before buying or even playing a game. Did you do that? If you did, you would know the tone and the kind of action and interaction with the environment that await in the title. And cinematic? How many cutscenes did your eye spot while playing? Everything you needed to know about the story and gameplay were told through messages and in-radio dialogues while you were shooting diving suits in the face.

I wonder if you played it on Survivor difficulty or on that matter, if you finished the game at all. After that, we can talk about the AI. Also, if graphics are what you are after, go play Jaguar or something and after that, try Wipeout HD if you still think that the AI in Bioshock sucks.

If you like DM more than Bioshock, that is fine. Just do not expect me or anybody else in this forum (or site for that matter) to be convinced about that through the arguments you used, cause they suck.

 

[wooty]

Bioshock was one of the most engrossing games I played for a while, better than some of the shit that came out around and since then. While it may be "flawed" in some areas, it was a damn good gaming experience.

 

[ZeroDotZero]

Do you really want me to go through an itemized list? I can, lets see main topics to the list will be combat,weapon balances,mod implementation,level design, AI,plasmids ,graphical glitches,PC mouse issues,Dailog,Item pacing.

Basically the over all implementation over everything together makes it feel unfinished,same with Dragon age and Fallout 3.... but at least dragon age was worth buying..... .

Obvious troll is obvious? You're just taking shots at games you know people on the Escapist enjoy, and with poorly developed arguments? Doesn't seem real to me anyway.

If you think that Bioshock had a poor story, then you should have tried picking up some audio diaries. The gameplay wasn't the best in the world, but it was so much better than some games. I don't see how Bioshock was an incomplete game at all.

 

[Hiphophippo]

My god, I have never seen someone abuse the ellipsis that much in one post.

Holy shit this. I might have miscounted due to the exponentially high number, but I think the original post had two sentences.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I agree. Bioshock has a lot of great things and story 2 it. Do tone it down please.

And would you also please tone down your use of numbers in place of words?

Think of it, if Bioshock was as bad of a game as you make it out to be, it wouldn't have the following it does from dedicated gamers and reviewers alike.

Sure, it may not be the best game ever, but it most certainly isn't a travesty. There have been far worse games in history, particularly from the Phillips CDi.

Look at how well Twilight and cod piece 4.5(mw2) is doing... popularity>qaulity my friend, popularity>qaulity.

Alright, so I guess that since games like Psychonauts/Okami/Shadow of the Colossus/Bioshock have a devoted fanbase, that means they're rubbish? Might I remind you of how popular Ocarina of Time is, or perhaps the original star wars trilogy? Bioshock may not be the greatest game out there, but at least it dares to do things different, a trait that seems to be lacking in today's industry.

Edit: And you're taking digs at Fallout 3 and Dragon Age too? Forgive me, but it seems like you don't truly appreciate game immersion for what it is.

Thats all well and fine that BS has fans but its watering down the industry and that I can not stand.... they have done nothing differently they took a design aesthetic from SS2 or dues ex and raped it/dumbed it down.... they are doing what everyone else is doing..... its not even on the same levels as the other games mentioned....

In a word, bullshit.

Now, you're not going to get me admiring BioShock for its fine shooter qualities, because its actual gameplay, while solid, is far from innovative. It's a decent shooter, no more, no less. What elevates BioShock is the way it tells its story. The level to which you choose to delve into Rapture's history is entirely up to you. If you want to seek out and listen to every last audio diary, you can, but you lose nothing (gamewise) if you don't. Looking at the graffiti on the walls, listening to the jukeboxes, soaking up all the atmosphere that helps you really understand what Rapture is about is purely a matter of choice. You can just go in, plasmids blazing, and still have a great experience, or you can take extra time and explore. That's not "watering down" the industry, that's empowering it. Developers typically have the choice to make a story-based game or an action game, depending on the kind of audience they want to attract, but BioShock illustrated that you can do both.

Bottom line, you're either a troll who's bored and picking a fight before the release of BioShock 2, or you simply don't like the game (which is perfectly valid) and because it doesn't meet your personal standards, it's somehow hurting the industry.

So you are saying the game is fine and there's nothing wrong with it?
I can't let it go they are destroying qaulity left and right for what? Faster development cycles?

The game was launched with glaringly huge issues and everyone seems to not give a damn.... same BS of apathy that had made politics a joke.....

I always come from the direction that they can do mroe with a game so when soemthign is so unfinished I just can not let it go.

now as for trolling that's hard for me to tell because of my bad grammar my opinion tends to be crap then I go and try to have spice it up with humor and it all come across as a doubler negative.... it's not helping that most can not see the flaws in BS do not think it has flaws and that just depresses my opinion of the industry and its consumers more in the end its my opinion that BS could have been better but that did not happen and they didn't even try to fix it which saddens me more..... while alot of people enjoyed it it dose not help me feel the industry and consumer base is over complacent with apathy much how the music industry is.....

-snipped for dramatic effect-

snip

Unfortunately rag reviews default to the standards used by the times, these days they don't sweat the details ,all that matters is if its good enough and good enough equals to above average or more and by those standards mine are to damn high because I expect abit more from a game that talked about giving you more not less.....

I may as well be a game snobb always wanting more but IMO thats better than being complacent with the dumbed down average of the day.....

-snip-

For the love of all that you hold dear don't ever just quote a post that big. Seriously.

Hmmm I'll edit it with a snip

I am just pissed off at the OP's shallow vision


that's all

Well shallow is,thy name BIOSHOCK! And halo ep 3.......and MW2........ME2...oh wait I need to finish it first.....darn semantics..... *hides*

Halo 3 despite my cruel hate for it isn't a bad game it's actually rather good
ME2 Is the perfect game so by god you should get off this forum young troll
MW2 also despite my cruel hate for it is not a bad game
and ofcourse Bioshock and Bioshock 2 are and will be ace!

With this you have lost all credibility

I didnt think I had any to begin with, rant is rant after all..... Halo ep 3 is not bad for a 15$ 8-12 hour ep....oh wait..... now ME2 I am a annoyed with they took all the stuff I enjoyed out of it but its not too bad so far MW2 meh worsest of the new COD games..