BioWare Co-Founder: RPGs Are Becoming "Less Relevant"

BehattedWanderer

Fell off the Alligator.
Jun 24, 2009
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Just because everything else is stealing your tricks doesn't mean that those tricks, when polished well and used in their starling form, aren't still wanted. So the swamp of shooters are are looking like each other, with few distinguishing features between them. This is not a desirable trait, Bioware. You've established many new things to do with the classic RPG, created exciting new worlds, millenia worth of lore and literature, multiple playstyles as builds, with any number of combinations possible. Don't cave and make them FPS titles with the most base of RPG elements. You have your dedicated audience, and there is a reason that the RPG remains among the fastest genres to come to the tongue--because it's a large share of the interest. Don't put your focus on people that aren't playing your games already, for that's a quick road to making your actual audience lose interest. Don't put the people wanting to play at expense for the people who might play it.
 

Nurb

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Dec 9, 2008
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So that's why EA and Bioware turned Dragon Age 2 to watered down shit.
 

s0denone

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Apr 25, 2008
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animehermit said:
Apparently you got lost in that long post. You do realize that DAO came out in 2009 right? Oblivion as well as most of the games on that list came out before Dragon Age did. Not to mention the fact that the majority of the games on your list seem to be action rpgs.
I'm sorry, but I find myself unable to compute in a discussion with you.

Go on, please, telling people their posts contain "too much retarded".
I regret ever writing you, I should have seen right away you were irredeemably obtuse about RPGs.
 

similar.squirrel

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Mar 28, 2009
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EverythingIncredible said:
BioWare has gotten so wrapped up in how to appeal to mass audiences that they forgot what makes RPGs good.

There was a time when developers made games that appealed to themselves and anyone else who'd like it. And anyone who didn't like it just wasn't part of the audience. They made games more for themselves.

Now it is just "How to we appeal to "

It's less about games and more about marketing.
Games cost a lot more to make today than they did back then. Developers need to recoup the cost of making their games by expanding their consumer base. Sad, but it's the way it is. The existence of niche genres is not entirely a good thing, either.
 

Lord_Gremlin

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Apr 10, 2009
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You know what? That does it. I will go now and sacrifice a cute little kitten because Bioware is beyond salvation.
The kitten will die slowly and you all can blame Dr. Zeschuk for that.
 

AssassinFisH

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Jun 12, 2011
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I would not say they are no longer relevant. The problem as I see it, is that they are being dumbed down for mainstream audiences. I love most of the modern RPG's, but I always get a sense that im being led down a linear path of improvement. I can't remember the last game, where I really had to think about what to upgrade, or which skill would suit my style best. It always seem to be "level this to pwn". Bring back the good old 90's PC rpg complexities!
 

Sylveria

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Nov 15, 2009
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Andy Chalk said:
"We're just about great games," Zeschuk added, and RPG or not, the Mass Effect series has most definitely been hot stuff. Mass Effect 3 [http://www.amazon.com/Mass-Effect-3-Collectors-Pc/dp/B0050SZES0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1314029767&sr=8-3] is currently scheduled for release on March 6 for the PC, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360.
>
Well that's a subtle way of saying "Hey we made Mass Effect 3 a straight up third person shooter with some talky bits. Suck it RPG fans."

RPGs would still be relevant if companies like Bioware didn't keep stripping out all the actual RPG from their games to make them more "accessible", which is industry speak for "dumb". If you want to make a First/Third person shooter, make a shooter. If you want to make an RPG, make a damn RPG. People get hostile when you slap a label on a game which you know isn't appropriate.

I hate this "oh well the genres are blending derp derp, its hard to define RPG anymore herp-a-derp." No it bloody isn't. There's a difference between putting some stat/specialization elements into a shooter and making a straight up RPG. Just having a few RPG aspects does not make your game an RPG. Stop watering down the term just because you don't want to make a true RPG anymore but still want to call it one.

To borrow from what Yahtzee once said, it's like they're trying to pleasure shooter fans with one hand and RPG fans with another and giving an overall mediocre experience all around. Just use both hands on one person at a time ffs. At this rate, in a few years, there will be 1 game series. It'll be called Final Gears of God of Halo Effect: Age of Portal Quest: Fable of Mario Madden's Machine Gun Blood Swords.
 

Mookowicz

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May 1, 2011
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RP is what happens when you let dramatic choices affect later game-play. Traditionally RP has fit well into adventure gaming, but there's no reason it can't fit into FPS, driving, RTS or sports games just as well. What's wrong with intrigues in an FPS, say... or a post apocalyptic driving duel where you form alliances with gangs... or a real-time strat meets a spy thriller... or a football game that plays corruption between the matches? Perhaps the issue isn't the RP but the cliche adventure format?
 

Sylveria

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Mookowicz said:
RP is what happens when you let dramatic choices affect later game-play. Traditionally RP has fit well into adventure gaming, but there's no reason it can't fit into FPS, driving, RTS or sports games just as well. What's wrong with intrigues in an FPS, say... or a post apocalyptic driving duel where you form alliances with gangs... or a real-time strat meets a spy thriller... or a football game that plays corruption between the matches? Perhaps the issue isn't the RP but the cliche adventure format?
You realize you basically just said any game with a plot is a role-playing game? That's kinda what all the aggravation this article brings about is being focused on, watering down the term RPG so you can say anything with even one aspect that was once considered an RPG element (narrative, stats, etc) makes it an RPG. Unless I'm misunderstanding your point.
 

Condiments

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Jul 8, 2010
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RPGs will truly always be my favorite genre, with their unmatched scope and complexity. Unfortunately the days of the RPG are gone. The identity of the genre as been stretched and dissected, luring old hapless fans into vapid franchise renewals and disappointments. Its clear there isn't a future for the pure RPG, because its not financially viable anymore. Production costs are just too high for the modern expectations. Its much easier to make a shooter and slap on barebone RPG elements, and call it an "RPG".

Honestly, Bioware just come out and say it. "RPGs are becoming less relevant" is essentially codeword for "we don't make RPGs because they're too expensive, and we want profit". The fact they've moved on is just fine, but to continuously twist the knife in your old fan's backs isn't good business.

The days where I could go from a fast paced adrenaline filled shooter, to play a more cerebral genres like the RPG are over. Everyone is fighting for the same piece of the pie, and old gamers like us are left in the dust.

Oh, and Bioware how about before you claim that your games are defined by their "great stories", how about you make an above average narrative outside of videogame standards. Mass Effect may be lauded around here for its "EPIC STORY", but its bargain bin material in literature.
 

Stall

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Apr 16, 2011
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No Bioware. Just your wannabe action games masquerading about as RPGs to desperately pretend to please your "core" audience are "less relevant". How about you guys just drop the pretense already and just make action games? It's clear that you really want to, and the only people who you are fooling is your fanatical fanbase, and those people will eat up anything you excrete, regardless of quality.

Not that your opinion matters anyways, Bioware: you haven't made a good game since KotOR (and maybe DA: O).
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Mar 21, 2010
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Between There and There.
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The Wide, Brown One.
BioWare co-founder Greg Zeschuk says RPGs are becoming "less relevant" as a genre to the current state of videogaming.

"RPGs are and always have been our bread and butter, our heart is there, but at the same time I think - well, we had the RPG panel breakfast at GDC yesterday - and what was interesting about that was that we had the conversation about 'what is an RPG,' and it's a blend," he told VG247 [http://www.vg247.com/2011/08/22/the-force-is-strong-in-this-one-talking-to-greg-zeschuk/]. "The genres are blending right now, you're getting lots and lots of progression and RPG elements in shooters - online persistence and so on."

"It's funny because the RPG in the context of the current world is - well, it's not specifically irrelevant, but it's becoming less relevant in and of itself," he continued. "It's more a function of, 'Hey, this game has a great story.' For us, [it's] having that emotion but also having other great features like combat and persistence of character progression and stuff."

Translation: "I've got nothing new to say about any of our upcoming games so, instead, here's something controversial to make sure people are talking about us."
 

omegawyrm

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Nov 23, 2009
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Lonan said:
He's completely right. RPG's are essentially a relic of the past. When video games first started, and there were only about 100 pixels, it was essentially a small technological step up from something like Dungeons and Dragons. The computer did the dice rolling, made a terrible graphical version of you and you're enemies, and the player would go around trying to collect items to make the fictional world seem bigger and more immersive. Everyone would have aspects of Dungeons and Dragons, such as numbers and stats, and items to improve their stats. There would be a text based story to guide you along, and that was considered fun three decades ago. It was a very primitive time.

Fast forward to the 21st century, and we now have realistic graphics, enemies that react when you shoot them, massive artistic environments and a huge emersion. It?s no longer necessary to keep scores and stats on pieces of paper. It?s no longer necessary to tediously search for items which completely interrupt the flow of an otherwise incredible experience (looking at you Mass Effect and Bioshock) because numbers in video games are practically dead. There?s no reason to put them on life support by introducing tedium, repetition, and annoyance into the players experience and calling it integral to gameplay. As Yahtzee said, when criticising the scanning part of Mass Effect 2, ?This is supposed to be an exciting space adventure! Commander Shepard should acquire resources by shooting them out of a monsters face, or by extracting them from the throats of alien hotties with his tongue.? When I pay for a game with my hard earned money, I don?t want it to throw a clipboard at me and call it fun. Clipboards and stats are for work. Video games are for fun.

As for plot being related to RPG's, I look for plot in videogames, and there are few games fun enough for me to play them if they don?t have a good plot. However, tediously upgrading items and counting stats is not at all necessary. Harry Potter didn?t spend half an hour repairing, selling, and upgrading at the vendor before defeating Lord Voldemort, Luke Skywalker didn?t run around Endor trying to collect items to defeat Darth Vader, and the Fellowship of the Ring didn?t have to look at an annoying item screen before battling to save Middle Earth. These are just annoying relics from a technologically inferior age. Let?s get rid of them so I don?t have to work when I want to have fun at the end of the day.
I could not possibly disagree with this post more, and I also think you're missing what the man's point was.
 

00slash00

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my feeling has always been, decide what kind of game you want to make, and make that. i dont like how so many games try to mix everything together. it seems like every game these days is trying to mix in rpg elements. i love rpgs, they are my favorite genre of games, but when i want to play an rpg, i play an rpg. when i want to play a shooter, i play a shooter. long ago, castlevania was based completely on skill. now its partly based on skill and largely based on your character level
 

Jason Danger Keyes

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Mar 4, 2009
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I'd like to comment. I don't give a shit if they streamline out some RPG elements if it makes a better game. I want a great game. I don't give a shit if it's more shooty or more talky or more micro-manage-y. I just want a great game. I was loved with ME1. I Loved ME2. I trust them to make an ME3 that I'll love too, RPG elements or not.