BioWare Co-Founder: RPGs Are Becoming "Less Relevant"
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
RPG's got me into video gaming. They are and will always be my genre.
So these days.. I find myself buying less and less video games. And of those I do buy, I tend to give up less than halfway through. Its been a long time since the magic of Suikoden and Grandia. Games seem to lack soul.
The modern gaming industry makes me sad.
So these days.. I find myself buying less and less video games. And of those I do buy, I tend to give up less than halfway through. Its been a long time since the magic of Suikoden and Grandia. Games seem to lack soul.
The modern gaming industry makes me sad.
Hmm...
Am I alone in rather having a really good story that has railroads rather than an average one with branching choices?
Am I alone in rather having a really good story that has railroads rather than an average one with branching choices?
this genuinely makes me sad 
.
and i also do not agree in the slightest
i see where hes going with this but no its just all wrong. there will always be the rpg fans who love more classical rpg style games. dao was a step in the right direction modernizing rpgs like that. but then da2 came out...
ANYWAY no the rpg is not becoming less relevant to gamers because i still play my old school rpgs much more then anything out recently, and i know tons of rpg gamers who love the genre.
they should just stop lying and admit its not becoming irrelevant, it's just they see how much more generic every day shooters make. the bioware i once loved is officially dead to me D:.
PS I LOVE the mass effect series ALOT don't get me wrong. it just sucks to see one of my favorite companies get there morals raped by EA :/
.and i also do not agree in the slightest
i see where hes going with this but no its just all wrong. there will always be the rpg fans who love more classical rpg style games. dao was a step in the right direction modernizing rpgs like that. but then da2 came out...
ANYWAY no the rpg is not becoming less relevant to gamers because i still play my old school rpgs much more then anything out recently, and i know tons of rpg gamers who love the genre.
they should just stop lying and admit its not becoming irrelevant, it's just they see how much more generic every day shooters make. the bioware i once loved is officially dead to me D:.
PS I LOVE the mass effect series ALOT don't get me wrong. it just sucks to see one of my favorite companies get there morals raped by EA :/
The RPG genre isn't fading into obscurity because the mechanics employed are outdated, it's fading into obscurity because developers would rather make money. Creating an RPG is a long and arduous experience and since RPG players are quite picky there's very little room for bullshit. On the other hand, shooters are not only easier to make but tend to yield much more than an RPG ever has. For example, Call of Duty: Black Ops sold over 10 million copies whereas Dragon Age: Origins, considered one of the best RPG's of 2009, sold about 3 million copies. Plus, at least from what I've seen, FPS players are rarely picky about their games. Just look at Call of Duty.
Now if you're a relatively small company that considers a hundred thousand copies sold an amazing achievement then quality games are your only chance to actually make a profit. The thing is, those same small companies that made amazing games 5 to 10 years ago are now either big corporations of part of a big corporation and since a corporation's ultimate goal is to make money you'd be a fucking moron not to appeal to the FPS crowd.
Whilst RPG's are not necessarily fading into obscurity the definition of what an RPG should be is changing.
Now if you're a relatively small company that considers a hundred thousand copies sold an amazing achievement then quality games are your only chance to actually make a profit. The thing is, those same small companies that made amazing games 5 to 10 years ago are now either big corporations of part of a big corporation and since a corporation's ultimate goal is to make money you'd be a fucking moron not to appeal to the FPS crowd.
Whilst RPG's are not necessarily fading into obscurity the definition of what an RPG should be is changing.
These are just off the top of my head, more than half of them sitting on my shelf. Hopefully all mentioned games were released after DA:O, but since this is purely based on memory, I might be wrong. Also, obviously there are more than those I remember. I am including XBLA games, purely because I have bought them. For those who care, I will mark awesome (and underrated) games with an asterix (*).animehermit said:
In no specific order:
Risen.*
Drakensang.
Two Worlds II.
Gothic 4.
Marvel Ultimate Alliance II.
Torchlight.
Bastion.
Faery.
Deathspank.
Half-Minute Hero.
Magna Carta 2.
Whatever Final Fantasy games released since then.
Divinity 2: Ego Draconis.
Wizardry: Labyrinth(?) (Unsure of title. For PS3 afaik.)
Mount & Blade & Bladestorm: Hundred Years War. (A bit of blend to strategy, admitted)
Alpha Protocol.* (Obviously blending to shooter, but vastly more RPG than shooter.
The Witcher 2.
Nier.
Resonance of Fate.
So in short, it is exceptionally presumptous to assume that you know every gamerelease in a genre you obviusly do not care that much about. I wouldn't claim that because "Last really good shooter I played was Call of Duty 3" that there have been no "good" shooters released since.
Once more we see why people shouting out "RPG" without having any idea of what makes up an RPG is a bad thing. It's a misnomer, I get it, but can we please decide on a definition before the genera gets absorbed by everything else due to lack of definition, please? (It's going to be so hard to find games I like if everything becomes an RPG).
But here is the thing, your tons of people you know that play it is probably less than 1000 and they are trying to make millions so yes old school rpgs are becoming less relevant becauseSergeantAnt said:this genuinely makes me sad
and i also do not agree in the slightest
i see where hes going with this but no its just all wrong. there will always be the rpg fans who love more classical rpg style games. dao was a step in the right direction modernizing rpgs like that. but then da2 came out...
ANYWAY no the rpg is not becoming less relevant to gamers because i still play my old school rpgs much more then anything out recently, and i know tons of rpg gamers who love the genre.
they should just stop lying and admit its not becoming irrelevant, it's just they see how much more generic every day shooters make. the bioware i once loved is officially dead to me D:.
PS I LOVE the mass effect series ALOT don't get me wrong. it just sucks to see one of my favorite companies get there morals raped by EA :/
a) People are impatient and wading through 10000 different items to find the right one is annoying (I play RPGs and I find it super annoying especially because I hoard items to sell them or just in case)
b) Turn based combat or combat where you mostly just press 1 button once and watch the character go at it is boring
c) Way too many numbers involved, micro-managing is tedious in real life and in video games, for example Mass Effect way too much micro-managing, Mass Effect 2 is a step in the right direction but it stream lined it way too much. It should be there but shouldn't take 10 minutes to do.
Either way their point is though that RPG is blending into Action adventure, Sandbox, Hack and slash, shooters that it is really hard to define what an RPG actually is.
Mmk. You don't want to make RPGs anymore, BioWare? That's fine. But stop acting like you get to decide what everyone else likes.
I'll just give my money to people who actually do want to make the types of games I enjoy.
I'll just give my money to people who actually do want to make the types of games I enjoy.
Think about the term RPG for a minute, guys. It means role playing games. That is all, nothing more, nothing less. Mass effect 2 was an RPG. You assumed the role of your own made up avatar and chose your own adventure. Just because a bunch of numbers aren't there doesn't mean it isn't an RPG.
Given people stubbornly pretend several RPG's are not "real" RPG's, or have checklist-y and somewhat vague definitions I get what he means.
But it's more accurate to say what an RPG is, is changing.
But it's more accurate to say what an RPG is, is changing.
Thats not happening. People don't argue over what a Fst Person Shooter is, or a puzzle game. In fact I have never seenanybody argue what genre a game was outside of RPG, let alone what the genre itself is.Levethian said:
It sounds like he's saying what we already know, that genres are blending. I feel like this article's title is slightly inflammatory. Like, that is what he's saying, but there's a lot more nuance to the quote and the blunt title that basically has the connotation of "Bioware Co-Founder thinks RPGs are dying" can only elicit negative responses, especially with the Escapist community, which has been negative about Bioware at least since DA2, but possibly harboring a hipster-ish sell-out resentment for longer.
Ultimately, he's clarifying what we've already seen in their recent games. If this statement surprises anyone, they haven't played the ME games or DA2. Even Origins had its more actiony elements. I think it's good they're accepting different takes on the RPG formula. There's no reason to pander to a group of self-proclaimed RPG elites unless their games are getting worse by trying to break the mold. ME2 was fantastic and DA2's problems had little to do with its RPG elements and almost everything to do with polish and fleshing out the world. Had that game branched out to more locations and avoided reusing environments, the rest of the complaints would simply come down to personal preference.
Ultimately, he's clarifying what we've already seen in their recent games. If this statement surprises anyone, they haven't played the ME games or DA2. Even Origins had its more actiony elements. I think it's good they're accepting different takes on the RPG formula. There's no reason to pander to a group of self-proclaimed RPG elites unless their games are getting worse by trying to break the mold. ME2 was fantastic and DA2's problems had little to do with its RPG elements and almost everything to do with polish and fleshing out the world. Had that game branched out to more locations and avoided reusing environments, the rest of the complaints would simply come down to personal preference.
Oh Bioware what have you become
well If I have the money to buy a game anytime soon It's gonna be skyrim
well If I have the money to buy a game anytime soon It's gonna be skyrim
You have no clue whatsoever.animehermit said:
You even said Oblivion was a mix of FPS and RPG?
So I guess the same goes for Might and Magic? Daggerfall? Wizardry? Obviously Stonekeep and such are also not "pure rpgs".
And now you wish to argue that JRPGs are not RPGs? I will agree that JRPGS are generally different from WRPGS... But they're still RPGs.
And no, you weren't just stating that it was the last "pure rpg" you had played. You were rounding off a very demeaning post, finally judging your opposite clueless, as he was arguing RPGs weren't "dying", because you hadn't seen any "pure rpgs" in 3 years.
"Shooters can go die in a hole and be resurrected 20 years from now."
What I sad to a friend last week. RPGs deserve much more atteniton. You would think the whole "Be who you want, play how you like" gameplay. But I think the insane guy sums it up pretty well.
"Doing the same thing over and over again is fun." (Atleast to Call of Duty players.)
(Ironic that I'm using a FPS game as an example...)
What I sad to a friend last week. RPGs deserve much more atteniton. You would think the whole "Be who you want, play how you like" gameplay. But I think the insane guy sums it up pretty well.
"Doing the same thing over and over again is fun." (Atleast to Call of Duty players.)
(Ironic that I'm using a FPS game as an example...)
"RPGs are becoming less relevant as the idea of players becomes an ambiguous force that guides blocks into specified places, or arranges colored spheres into interpretive figures."
Actually I find FPS to work well with open world games. Unfortunately, most companies are set on making boring old corridor shooters.neonsword13-ops said: