BioWare Explains Why There's No Homosexuality in Mass Effect 2

[Actual]

Yeah--as The_root_of_all_evil mentioned, you're missing the irony of a straight guy telling his gay son not to use a gay slur.

Like I said I get your point of view. But the word is offensive and perhaps you should have some respect for the generations of gay men before you who've lived with that word as a vile and heinous label.

I'm 24 and my mum still slaps my wrist if I let my tongue run away with me. I don't think there is an age limit for good parenting.

First off, "fag" isn't an obscenity, and the age limit for good parenting is approximately 16-18 at the highest--in other words, the age at which you're not bloody likely to change the kid's ways anymore. I'd hardly consider my father a good parent, for that matter, but that's another story. Why are you still living at home? :V

Here I have to outright disagree with you; fag is most definitely an obscenity and there is no limit to good parenting. You don't give up responsibility for your children when it becomes apparent you've failed to raise them properly even if they are 16-18.
I don't live with my mum but I see her whenever I can get into town, I'm a bit of a mama's boy. But then I get the feeling you were trying to insult me here, information is rarely a defense against insult so not sure why I'm talking anymore...

I also disagree with the whole idea that's it's ok to use a slur if you're part of the group it's aimed at. If you take away the offensiveness of a word, I'm going to have to come up with other slurs to offend people with.

Perhaps the idea that the word isn't actually offensive might be the best way to look at it? Gay used to mean "happy and carefree" a few decades back.

Aye, but claiming that they still mean those things when clearly used out of context is a little naive. I mean, was he calling someone a cigarette? I just don't see how using words you know are going to upset people is acceptable.

 

[blindthrall]

Spoiler: Oh yeah?

I know it wasn't directed at me, but I can't resist. Nothing personally directed at you, just fuckin around.

Prostate tickler, nut nibbler, AIDS raider, rump ranger, KY cowboy, fanny plasterer, pudding pusher, stool softener, catamite, butt grunion, ass spelunker, turd torturer, dishonorable discharge, a bundle of sticks, and Fred Phelps.

Seriously, the gay guy I know only gets angry if I call him a fag. He could care less about other homosexuals. He told me it stood for "flamboyantly advertising gayness", so some gay dude dressed normally minding his business isn't a fag, but another guy in a pink speedo talking with a lisp is a fag. I guess it translates to "gay slut."

 

[Actual]

If you take away the offensiveness of a word, I'm going to have to come up with other slurs to offend people with.

Spoiler: Oh yeah?

That was me being ironic, we're missing it all over the place today.

What is that creature, I feel I recognise, but can't place it.

 

[Pengy]

Too bad really, since they had same sex relationships in Dragon Age, as so many already pointed out. Kinda weird to have it there and not in Mass Effect 2. But maybe because they were lazy, hee hee!
Besides, if it supposed to be "my" story, as Shepard, then why do this to the story I'm building. Lazy, stupid or incompetent. Or something. Great game, but romance wise it was a bit dry. Thank buggery for Leliana and Zevran, hehe

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

It's incongruent with the original, really, say what you will, a lot of the reason why the original was interesting to people was that you could have a female shephard do it with that asari chick. Even though the "do it" really wasn't much. They -could- have taken that to an actual romantic level and have an interesting story to it in ME2, but I guess they dumped it like the novelty to sell more copies as it was.

My suspicion is their new EA overlords coerced the homosexuality out of it to look 'cleaner' on EA's clearly spotless reputation (try not to laugh too hard.) I cannot really prove that, its just an educated hunch based on their business practices.

 

[robrob]

edit: scratch that

 

[Dommyboy]

"There seems to some subtext there that no one is saying, namely that the inclusion of actual homosexual relationships might hurt sales,"

But:

a) They had no problems with that with Dragon Age

b) Really? Couldn't you then say that about there being a black character (let's face it, racism and homophobia generally seem to go in hand)?

Dragon Age and Mass Effect are too very different games though. The Dragon Age protagonist is easily moulded and lacks a lot of depth to continue a story based on them, while Commander Shepard is a character that works around a manly or butch sense and as Bioware are the creators, they want to keep their depiction of Shepard intact.

Does it really matter anyway? Not every game needs a romantic sub-plot and even if it does contain one, it does not have to support every sexual preference. What if I had a fetish for dragons rooting cars? I might protest against ME3 until my Shepard can be a hermaphrodite dragon which is able to develop a relationship with homosexual cars.

 

[AceDiamond]

Personally I don't see the big deal. They didn't consider it, monogendered aliens can't be gay because they're only one gender, and if they didn't want to wedge it in just because then that's their right as the creators to do so. Granted things are getting a bit out of hand here in this debate but at least it's been moderately civil-

So Bioware is saying that FUCKING AN ALIEN, which is technically bestiality-

...nevermind forget what I said about civility. I sincerely hope you were joking because that is just out-and-out stupid. Beastiality is the act of having sex with a nonsapient animal. Alien species are clearly sapient. I guess by 18th century rules when blacks were considered sub-human, having sex with one would be beastiality under your logic, yes? No I certainly hope not. Of course defending the player's right to pursue relationships with aliens is just going to add more fodder for this and spin off another increasingly bizzare debate so I hope this dies right here and now.

Back to the topic at hand. I really don't see the big deal. It's not really "equality" if you're wedging in all possible relationship options just to appease a certain group. You can't please everyone, and it's more than obvious that the lack of full-on same-sex relationships did not hurt ME2's sales.

 

[theSovietConnection]

If no-one is saying it, then how do you prove its existence? That's supposition.

The excuses are weak and contradictory. Like theres something they actually want to say but can't, as someone is off stage with a gun.

Like not wanting to give away spoilers? As upstage at GDC isn't a terrifying place enough, but to have to answer WHY game decisions are made like this?

I think you're giving far too much weight to something that, in the end, doesn't really matter a toss to sales.

Why all the need for characters to have a defined-sexual relationship anyway? It's this damn trend of having people HAVING to cover all the bases of life that destroys the foundations of a good team relationship.

How come there aren't any contact lens wearers in games? Huh? IT'S SIGHT-ist! /sigh

BioWare's sci-fi epic Mass Effect 2 has come under fire for not having the option of homosexual relationships

Well there's a sentence I never expected to read. Look how far we've come.

And how far we've slipped. Now it's mandatory.

I agree with root on this one. At what point is Bioware obliged to do anything we ask with their games? They could make Shepherd a baby eating Nazi zombie vampire in Mass Effect 3 if they wanted to.

At the end of the day, like it or not, Shepherd is Bioware's character to do with as they see fit. Maybe they just didn't want a gay Shepherd. There is nothing remotely homophobic about that as there is no indication of malice behind this choice. I think it's a sad state when we have to include every possible romance option out of fear of offending anybody.

 

[blarghblarghhhhh]

I dont see what the big deal is here bioware has included homosexual characters in there games before, they just chose not to with this particular one. damned if you do, damned if you dont.

 

[Altorin]

You can be a lesbian, but ButtsexShep is not in the cards.

 

[Jaded Scribe]

My suspicion is their new EA overlords coerced the homosexuality out of it to look 'cleaner' on EA's clearly spotless reputation (try not to laugh too hard.) I cannot really prove that, its just an educated hunch based on their business practices.

My Dragon Age game with the EA logo prominently displayed on the box and in the opening would disagree with you.


Shepard isn't gay because Shepard isn't gay. BioWare has their character image of him, and it's going to stay that way. It has nothing to do with "zomg homosexuality is dangerous to sales".

It's 100% because their envisioning of him had him straight. End of story.

No moral outcry. No dilemma over demographics. Just character development.

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

My suspicion is their new EA overlords coerced the homosexuality out of it to look 'cleaner' on EA's clearly spotless reputation (try not to laugh too hard.) I cannot really prove that, its just an educated hunch based on their business practices.

My Dragon Age game with the EA logo prominently displayed on the box and in the opening would disagree with you.


Shepard isn't gay because Shepard isn't gay. BioWare has their character image of him, and it's going to stay that way. It has nothing to do with "zomg homosexuality is dangerous to sales".

It's 100% because their envisioning of him had him straight. End of story.

No moral outcry. No dilemma over demographics. Just character development.

If they hadn't had it in the original game, it really would not be an issue to me. It comes off as either crass or dishonest saying that this isn't what they intended after the original. In the best of cases its a glaring loose end for those of us that did go that route (I did with one playthrough in ME and didnt in another), at the worst its backpedalling from the controversy the original brought up. I really cannot help but suspect the latter, especially given the vague and evasive answers given on the topic by the development team.

 

[joshthor]

they are the first big developer with a mainsteam game with a real noticable homosexual relationship (at least that ive seen) and they are under fire for not doing it on all thier games!? (i really want to say "how gay is that!?" ) anyway, its kind of dumb.

 

[Killjoi]

There seems to some subtext there that no one is saying, namely that the inclusion of actual homosexual relationships might hurt sales

Uh..how is a potential homosexual relationship going to hurt sales ? I think that's a false assumption. Look at Dragon Age, it outsold Mass Effect 2 by quite a big margin (3.2 million sold for DA:O while ME2 has only 2 million shipped so far).

I think the homophobic crowd will just avoid those male-male romance options and continue to play the game regardless of whether they existed or not. Personally, I wouldn't have gone for it either but I can see a gay gamer wishing for the option to do so. A missed opportunity for BioWare but it doesn't bother me as much.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I bet a lot of straight guys played a FemShepard (like me) and ended up boning Jacob or Thane. Just putting it out there

 

[Uberjoe19]

I think Casey Hudson's answer sounds a lot more reasonable. Video Games, especially in the current generation, have always borrowed heavily from movies, so building a game like "a PG-13 movie" sounds a lot more understandable to me.
[small](it also explains why there's no actual nudity in these games)[/small]

I find Muzyka's answer a little bit puzzling. The Mass Effect series has always had this "build-your-own-adventure" vibe; in theory, Shepard should be the players' concept, not the game designers'.

I tend to agree with this. The culmination of the romance in part 1 was far more...well, physical, than in part 2. Honestly, I can live with fading to black instead of watching characters knock boots in the uncanny valley. But I'd still rather have the option to bed the ladies should I want to.

I mean, seriously, have you seen Miranda's ass?

*ahem*

Spoiler: DAT ASS?

I did not take this picture.

How delightfully juvenile, yet I laughed all the same.

 

[Uberjoe19]

There seems to some subtext there that no one is saying, namely that the inclusion of actual homosexual relationships might hurt sales

Uh..how is a potential homosexual relationship going to hurt sales ? I think that's a false assumption. Look at Dragon Age, it outsold Mass Effect 2 by quite a big margin (3.2 million sold for DA:O while ME2 has only 2 million shipped so far).

I think the homophobic crowd will just avoid those male-male romance options and continue to play the game regardless of whether they existed or not. Personally, I wouldn't have gone for it either but I can see a gay gamer wishing for the option to do so. A missed opportunity for BioWare but it doesn't bother me as much.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I bet a lot of straight guys played a FemShepard (like me) and ended up boning Jacob or Thane. Just putting it out there

I tend to be a loner in real life, so my Shepard was a misanthropic prick.

 

[Shaoken]

I wouldn't have a problem with their answers if they hadn't already allowed a lesbian option in the first game. The PG-13 answer is bullshit because it's an M rated game, and considering the amount of f-bombs they dropped in #2 I think they've moved past the family friendly image someone suggested earlier in the thread.

All in all I find their answers to be a bit of a cop out. They could have said "It would feel natural to turn one of the supporting characters gay" or "We didn't want to throw it in there to be a gimmick, if we do it we'll do it right" or "We already gave you femshep on Liara, what more do you want from us?"

By the way, the "Asari aren't female so it's not lesbian sex" is bullshit. The Asari carry the baby and give birth to it, so what is that if not a female?

 

[DaxStrife]

Muzyka had a slightly different view however, saying that a homosexual Shepard didn't fit with BioWare's concept of the character: "Sometimes, in some of our games, we are going to have a defined character with a more defined view. Almost like a third-person narrative -- where Mass Effect is more in that vein, Dragon Age isn't in that vein ... For some other franchises we've had more defined characters and sort of approaches to things, and they've had a more defined personality and a more defined approach to the way they've proceed through the game and the world."

...Is it just me, or is someone at BioWare just admitting there that he doesn't know what a Role Playing Game, their primary product type, is? The player should be defining the character, not the developer. The player picks Shepard's background, appearance, specialties, and dialogue choices and relationships. True, Shepard is more defined than, say, the PC in "Dragon Age: Origins," but it's still a role-playing game and we're still being given all this choice. Why not then allow the player to decide the concept of Shepard, including his orientation?