BioWare "Falsely Advertised" Mass Effect 3

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Lethos

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Batsamaritan said:
well I just spent the evening consoling my friend whose girlfriend died just days after giving birth to their child. My dad died recently and another friend has cancer.

I dont think heading to a forum and venting about the games shit ending is pathetic, its the whole reporting the game to trading standards, online petitons and $1000 dollar cupcakes, and the fact the whole raging debate is STILL GOING ON.

Its about perspective. I sat through six years of lost for a dreadful ending, I posted about two complaints online. Bleach stopped suddenly with a terrible and abrubt ending, lots of things i've liked dissapointed, but I GET ON WITH MY LIFE.

I would love to see the passion and drive shown by the retake mass effect drive channeled into something meaningful.
Wait, wait, wait, wait. You were capable of doing all that and venting on a forum AT THE SAME TIME!? We have been waiting over 2000 years for your return messiah.

You're totally right though. Your average guy who goes to work, gives to charity, helps his community, and in his spare time takes part in RME because he believes in what they are trying to achieve is so pathetic. He should get his priorities straight and stop fucking up his life.

Now I don't want you replying to me till you have fixed Zimbabwe's economy and brought Assad to justice.
 

Inkidu

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That's all well and good, but you know all BioWare has to do?

Claim puffery, and just like any thing that over-promises they win. Best coffee in the world? Puffery, Best game ever! Puffery. Oodles and oodles of choices! Back of the freaking game box puffery.

Give it up already. I'm pissed; your pissed, but this isn't special.
 

Devilnumber2

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Comments made in interviews and even full blown advertising campaigns should never be construed as promises. Why do any of us still do that? Haven't we had our expectations let down enough to realize we shouldn't believe what we're told until we get the game in our hands?

Guess not. Nerds gonna Rage, I spose.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Batsamaritan said:
I complain about things that matter, hell I complain when a story sucks, but I dont go on and on and on and on and on... about it like some whiney little cretin. The take back mass effect cult just seems to me to be the prattling of silliy little people with iconsequential lives finding silly little causes to whine about when there is so many real and actual problems to deal with. I complained about the ending of lost for example, briefly then got on with taking care of my family and getting on with my career and paying my bills.
complain about things that matter

like complaing about people complaing...thats real productive

(hint: your not changing any minds, just adding to the "problem")

Im going to go ahead and complain as loudly as I want abut ME3's ending..because I can
 

Mattlore

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Lethos said:
What the hell? I can't complain that about an ending because somewhere in a world a dictator is killing innocent people? I can't express my frustration on an issue because a child somewhere in the world is starving?
No, you ARE allowed to complain about a game ending. Hell, people have been doing it for generations! You go onto a blog, forum, or video game news industry website and you write your review, people either agree or disagree and you move on with your life. What it's NOT is trying to drive a company into the ground with you incessant whining and self entitlement (Yes I use this term a lot, but frankly it's really the best way to sum up this whole ridiculous thing) and going as far as getting the BBB involved. Even IF you hated the ending, the company does not and should not pander to the low lives who are yelling that they "Owe" them. Hell, if I tried to sue every game company for making a product I hated...Man, I'd be RICH! But you know WHY people don't "Normally" do this? Because it's ridiculous, that's why!

Lethos said:
Why are you sitting on your computer like some whiny little cretin? You should be out there fixing all of the worlds problems RIGHT NOW. You should stop carrying on this inconsequential lifestyle of whining about RME and find some worthwhile things to whine about!
I SENSE THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK :D
 

Lethos

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Mattlore said:
No, you ARE allowed to complain about a game ending. Hell, people have been doing it for generations! You go onto a blog, forum, or video game news industry website and you write your review, people either agree or disagree and you move on with your life. What it's NOT is trying to drive a company into the ground with you incessant whining and self entitlement (Yes I use this term a lot, but frankly it's really the best way to sum up this whole ridiculous thing) and going as far as getting the BBB involved. Even IF you hated the ending, the company does not and should not pander to the low lives who are yelling that they "Owe" them. Hell, if I tried to sue every game company for making a product I hated...Man, I'd be RICH! But you know WHY people don't "Normally" do this? Because it's ridiculous, that's why!
You know what? I had this large argument lined up to try and convince you the error of your arguments, but then I figured, if we are on the 11th page of the billionth ME3 ending thread and you still maintain your position of us all being whiny, self-entitled children, then no amount of arguing I do is going to convince you otherwise. You're arguments have been used before by other posters and then largely discredited by a swarm of more posters.

Mattlore said:
I SENSE THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK :D
Errr, that was kinda the point of the post? I was pointing out how ridiculous his argument was by satirizing his own post...
 

Grey Day for Elcia

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SpiderJerusalem said:
Oh great, another one of your kind of people. Needless bleeding hearts.
I couldn't care less about the people living in absolute shit--it aint my problem. But one would think the ending to a god damn video game wouldn't be this much of a fucking issue with a little perspective. Christ, people... It's a game. Grow up. It's beyond disliking something and asking for a change; it's now a pathetic tantrum. You know when a little kid doesn't get the toy they want at a store and they roll around on the ground crying, making a big ol' scene and crying their little eyes out over a video ga- I mean, toy? Yeah...
 

Mournblade94

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Mattlore said:
No, you ARE allowed to complain about a game ending. Hell, people have been doing it for generations! You go onto a blog, forum, or video game news industry website and you write your review, people either agree or disagree and you move on with your life. What it's NOT is trying to drive a company into the ground with you incessant whining and self entitlement (Yes I use this term a lot, but frankly it's really the best way to sum up this whole ridiculous thing) and going as far as getting the BBB involved.
Other than the fact you misuse the word entitlement, tell me WHY I can't cause problems for a company. Elaborate please. The fact that you do not want me to is not a valid reason.

I have a consumer relationship with bioware. What you want me to do is inconsequential to the case at hand.
 

irishda

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Mournblade94 said:
irishda said:
You mean kind of like how in your life the sole outcome is that you will be dead no matter what choices you've made in life? And yet your existence will be defined by the state of your life as it was when it ended and not just the fact that no matter what you do you don't even GET to choose your ending. Gee, sounds like everyone's life is exactly the same since we only get ONE ending ourselves: dead.

The only way this could have been a better straw man argument is if you gathered some hay, tied it into the shape of a man, and beat upon it.

How is this even relevant?

Video games are escapist entertainment.
The only way you could have missed the point more completely is if I gathered it up, trained it to be an astronaut, and sent it into space.

As I explained to someone else a couple of posts down from where you pulled this one, I'm not trying to say GAMES SHOULD EQUAL LIFE. I'm making a comparison. I added a little just to clarify.

your existence (read: a video game's story) will be defined by the state of your life (the story) as it was when it ended as well as the events therein and not just the fact that you're dead.
Everyone who complains that "our choices didn't matter because we only have three endings and our story ends in one of three states regardless" must be very goth, because, by their logic, the decisions we make in our lives won't matter cause we'll end up dead regardless, so why bother?

And one more time just so we're clear:
I'm not saying "games should be the same as life". I'm pointing out the flawed reasoning that people's decisions in the game didn't matter because there were only three endings. A story is not defined by the last two pages, just as our lives are not defined by how we die, because even though the galaxy ends up in one of three ways, the state of that galaxy was determined by the player's decisions.
 

Iron Criterion

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Caramel Frappe said:
Also, I do not mind who judges me.. for insults or worse- I still believe fighting over the ending is worth my time.
And if people put this much effort into solving real issues the world would be a better place.
 

Mattlore

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Mournblade94 said:
Mattlore said:
No, you ARE allowed to complain about a game ending. Hell, people have been doing it for generations! You go onto a blog, forum, or video game news industry website and you write your review, people either agree or disagree and you move on with your life. What it's NOT is trying to drive a company into the ground with you incessant whining and self entitlement (Yes I use this term a lot, but frankly it's really the best way to sum up this whole ridiculous thing) and going as far as getting the BBB involved.
Other than the fact you misuse the word entitlement, tell me WHY I can't cause problems for a company. Elaborate please. The fact that you do not want me to is not a valid reason.

I have a consumer relationship with bioware. What you want me to do is inconsequential to the case at hand.
Entitlement: The belief that you have the right to a product, ideal, privilege, ect...Based on contact, or law.

It has been argued that yes, Bioware delivered on their contract to deliver an experience in which your decisions vastly shape the outcome of said experience. Many people commenting in here and other places have pointed out that yes; your choices DO have reaching and very different consequences on your game play...JUST NOT THE ENDING (Frankly the woman from the BBB was either hoping on a bandwagon or didn't even play the game)!!
Their product delivered on what was the base establishment and agreement (To Provide an interactive experience where your choices make drastic changes throughout the course of the journey) and everyone (For the most part) enjoyed 98% of the product.
You don't go to a restaurant, order a meal and demand that a new one be made just because you don't like the last bite. This is why RME is a stupid movement. Your consumer relationship with Bioware was fully fulfilled when you were having fun with the game. So suck it up butter-cup.
 

Mournblade94

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irishda said:
And one more time just so we're clear:
I'm not saying "games should be the same as life". I'm pointing out the flawed reasoning that people's decisions in the game didn't matter because there were only three endings. A story is not defined by the last two pages, just as our lives are not defined by how we die, because even though the galaxy ends up in one of three ways, the state of that galaxy was determined by the player's decisions.
The three endings were not the problem. The three Bad endings were the problem. The final state of the galaxy after the endings actually has very little to do with the decisions shephard makes previous to the ABC yes/no/nor point.

the reason your point does not apply here is because lives are not defined the same way as art. Some M night shalamaln movies were great until the end. At the end the twist changed the paradigm of the movie.

The ending indeed changes a story. The ending can make or break a great story.

Actually there are people in history that are elevated or villified because of how they died, regardless of their previous deeds. So indeed I did not miss your point it was just not relevant.
 

Feildin

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Personally anything the BBB says I take with a grain of salt. They have been notorious for "pay to play" type shenanigans. i.e. Don't pay dues, bad rating, your business got reported, through them a little cash and it gets forgotten. To me its just someone jumping on the bandwagon to try to get a piece of the action. That is just my 2 cents though.
 

Sperium 3000

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Well, I clearly remember the words "Widly different endings" being used at some point by the ME3 dev team, so that technically is false advertisement, I suppose. But you know what? I'm tired of this. We're not getting a new ending, because either Bioware or EA is stupid and doesn't like when their fans are happy, so I'll let's just let this drop. The ME series is over and done with, and the ending of ME3 spoiled any other game that might take place in the same setting.

In other words, Mass Effect has become Star Wars.
 

Mournblade94

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Mattlore said:
Mournblade94 said:
Mattlore said:
No, you ARE allowed to complain about a game ending. Hell, people have been doing it for generations! You go onto a blog, forum, or video game news industry website and you write your review, people either agree or disagree and you move on with your life. What it's NOT is trying to drive a company into the ground with you incessant whining and self entitlement (Yes I use this term a lot, but frankly it's really the best way to sum up this whole ridiculous thing) and going as far as getting the BBB involved.
Other than the fact you misuse the word entitlement, tell me WHY I can't cause problems for a company. Elaborate please. The fact that you do not want me to is not a valid reason.

I have a consumer relationship with bioware. What you want me to do is inconsequential to the case at hand.
Entitlement: The belief that you have the right to a product, ideal, privilege, ect...Based on contact, or law.

It has been argued that yes, Bioware delivered on their contract to deliver an experience in which your decisions vastly shape the outcome of said experience. Many people commenting in here and other places have pointed out that yes; your choices DO have reaching and very different consequences on your game play...JUST NOT THE ENDING (Frankly the woman from the BBB was either hoping on a bandwagon or didn't even play the game)!!
Their product delivered on what was the base establishment and agreement (To Provide an interactive experience where your choices make drastic changes throughout the course of the journey) and everyone (For the most part) enjoyed 98% of the product.
You don't go to a restaurant, order a meal and demand that a new one be made just because you don't like the last bite. This is why RME is a stupid movement. Your consumer relationship with Bioware was fully fulfilled when you were having fun with the game. So suck it up butter-cup.
Where your point fails is that yes everyone has sucked it up, but many of them will not trust bioware enough to purchase a game from them again. It is that pressure that bioware is listening to, not the whining. They obviously feel that enough people are disappointed enough to not purchase from them in the future. That is the goal. Let them know my Dollars matter. I got EXACTLY what I was entitled to with Bioware. Now I am letting them know it was unsatisfactory. That is where this is not an issue of entitlement. It is an issue of quality, and that is what you fail to see.

I played ME 1 and ME 2 at least 3 times each. The ending ruined the replayability for me and so I did not receive a product of the same caliber as ME1 and ME2. I got my money's worth for the previous incarnations and ME3 gave me less bang for the buck. I am letting Bioware know that. If they choose not to improve, then I will send my dollars elsewhere.

The disappointment with D&D 4th edition caused WOTC to change its course. Perhaps the same will happen with bioware. I am not entitled to anything bioware makes. But if they make games I have no faith will be a story I will enjoy, I will not buy it.

Since you like nicknames perhaps I will call you Lillypad. See lillypad, that is all there is to the relationship:) You don't have to like it.
 

medv4380

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Feb 26, 2010
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Mattlore said:
Entitlement: The belief that you have the right to a product, ideal, privilege, ect...Based on contact, or law.

It has been argued that yes, Bioware delivered on their contract to deliver an experience in which your decisions vastly shape the outcome of said experience. Many people commenting in here and other places have pointed out that yes; your choices DO have reaching and very different consequences on your game play...JUST NOT THE ENDING (Frankly the woman from the BBB was either hoping on a bandwagon or didn't even play the game)!!
Their product delivered on what was the base establishment and agreement (To Provide an interactive experience where your choices make drastic changes throughout the course of the journey) and everyone (For the most part) enjoyed 98% of the product.
You don't go to a restaurant, order a meal and demand that a new one be made just because you don't like the last bite. This is why RME is a stupid movement. Your consumer relationship with Bioware was fully fulfilled when you were having fun with the game. So suck it up butter-cup.
Then you used the word entitlement incorrectly. They don't have a belief they in fact have a right as a valid purchaser of the product. Entitlement would be if they hadn't actually purchased anything at all. Entitlement would be if they received the product for free. Because of their purchase they do have a right to complain about the quality of the product.

The BBB is in fact a perfectly valid place to submit a complaint of this nature. You're probably under the false assumption that the BBB is some government entity, and has some weight to impose a fine.

In truth the BBB is a more effective version of Metacritic. People submit complaint and those complaints affect the BBB reputation of businesses that are members of the BBB. As a consumer you are free to lookup the score and public complaints and choose to do business with someone based off of that score. The BBB is better than metacritic because it vets complains and actually does follow ups. It even posts if there was a resolution to the complaint. It is better in Business to Business transactions and in Large purchases since people don't seem to care to lookup a business if they are spending less than a grand on a product.

The opinion of the of the BBB Representative is not "hoping on the bandwagon". It is the opinion of an expert who reviews complaints and business practices for a living. She certainly did not play the game and you clearly didn't read the article ether. It is a review of complaints and in their opinion the complaints are constant and frequent enough to conclude that the audience was in some way deceived.

Bioware or EA has the right to respond on they BBB web sit and submit their counter to the complaint. Not responding will probably result in their rating being downgraded as their current rating is not A+ is as the BBB puts it
"BBB does not have sufficient background information on this business. BBB made two or more requests for background information from the business. BBB has not received a response from this business and/or has not been able to verify information received from this business."

The only reason it is not valid to submit a complaint about EA or Bioware to the BBB is that most people don't use it in their game purchases. They use Metacritic instead.

And per Metacritic it doesn't look like "most" people enjoyed it at all.
A simple analyis of the public comments shows
The top 25% rated it a 10
The median is a 5
The bottom 25% rated it a 0
Clearly the audiance appears to be split 50/50

The only thing with worse than ME3 in ratings is Skyrim for the PS3 which is explained by a buggy unplayable game at launch.

Most games follow the pattern of
Top 25% rate a game as 10
Top 50% rate a game as 10
Bottom 25% rate a game as 9 - 8

Examples
Mass Effect 3 10,5,0
Dragon Age II 8,4,1
Dragon Age 9.5,8,6
Skyrim PS3 9,1,0
FFX-2 10,9,5
Kingdoms of Amalur 10,9,8
Uncharted 3 10,10,9
Disgaea 4 10,10,9.25
Skyrim 360 10,10,9
 

wgmovies

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another mass effect thread AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RELEASE ME FROM THIS CURSE (nah just kidding i like these threads)
 

punipunipyo

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chadachada123 said:
punipunipyo said:
on one hand, I rage about the ending being just color filters in terms of "dynamic differences" when making choices...

I wanted to say to all who flamed about my statement "wow... looks like GoW, where is the story part of this game? what happens to characters? like mass2? from the trailer, I think it's going to be action packed, but less story driven, and from the grim of the whole look, and theme, I assumed it will have a rushed ending as well..." I just want to be nice and say "I told you so..." but that's besides the point...

EA/Bioware said not long ago, a new sets of ending is on the way... we should just be patience and wait for it, I think the rage was answered... I thik we should just let the guys in Bioware work it out, and we will see in few months...
It's not a new set of endings, though. It's the same ending, but with a couple of extra scenes to "clarify" some things. The actual problem (the ending being nonsensical and shitty) can't be solved with extra clarification unless you make it based on the indoctrination theory.
and there I was, thinking it was all good... I had so much hope... oh well... I'll just go to the corner and cry now...
 

Shinigami214

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viranimus said:
Shinigami214 said:
May I direct you to this blog post which has a wealth of such examples, most of which are far more specific than than a quick skim off the ME3 website?
No, you may not. What your directing me to are NOT advertisements for the game. If what your pointing to is not an advertisement then it cannot support the claim of false advertisement. What your directing me to is interviews and articles that people interpret as promises. What your putting forth is just the public interpretation of promises via forum discussions and interviews filled with a whole lot of speculation, circumstantial evidence and out and out extrapolation. Not actual advertisements as in viable print/video advertisements where the advertisement says in no uncertain terms that this game will have X feature.

Ive still yet to see anything presented that is an "advertisement" that has not been disproven already (IE: the line about outcomes on the ME3 advertisement page) or that is not related to interviews or bioware forum posts that are based extensively in public misinterpretation/speculation. When that gem is presented I will back off on this, but even after dozens of quotes to prove me wrong and a month later its still not yet surfaced.
We disagree on a fundamental point. You believe that any sort of promotion that is not strictly paid-for advertising does not count as promotion.

I, and the U.S. advertising regulatory system (from what I can understand), believe otherwise.

Pointless to argue further, really.

I could persist in presenting a wealth of examples that (in my opinion) constitute examples of misleading promotion and advertising, but if you don't believe them to constitute advertising to begin with, there's no point.
 

maxben

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AnarchistAbe said:
GamesB2 said:
AnarchistAbe said:
Jokes on the gamers! Now, we'll get the same exact ending to every fucking game. The safe, happy ending that nobody has grounds to complain about. Thank you, "retakers". Thank you for your entitled douchebaggery.
We don't want happy[i/] endings per se, we want meaningful endings that make sense and are affected by choice.


What you WANT is irrelevant. What you'll GET is companies playing it more safe than ever, to avoid getting sued by you whiny *insert derogatory expletive here*s.

Congratulations! You got what you wanted, though. That's all that really matters, right? This company, that you loved so much and created a series we all love, getting hit for false advertising because you all didn't like what happened. Congratulations!


You make an interesting prediction, but I don't see the logic.
False advertising is bad, always and without question.