BioWare "Falsely Advertised" Mass Effect 3

[irishda]

And one more time just so we're clear:
I'm not saying "games should be the same as life". I'm pointing out the flawed reasoning that people's decisions in the game didn't matter because there were only three endings. A story is not defined by the last two pages, just as our lives are not defined by how we die, because even though the galaxy ends up in one of three ways, the state of that galaxy was determined by the player's decisions.

The three endings were not the problem. The three Bad endings were the problem. The final state of the galaxy after the endings actually has very little to do with the decisions shephard makes previous to the ABC yes/no/nor point.

the reason your point does not apply here is because lives are not defined the same way as art. Some M night shalamaln movies were great until the end. At the end the twist changed the paradigm of the movie.

The ending indeed changes a story. The ending can make or break a great story.

Actually there are people in history that are elevated or villified because of how they died, regardless of their previous deeds. So indeed I did not miss your point it was just not relevant.

I'm going to write two sentences. One is my life/death metaphor; the other is the point I'm trying to make. Let's see where the overlap is.

When you die, regardless of the fact that everyone's state is exactly the same (dead), your life's story is not defined solely by the end result of that life (i.e. you being dead) because of the many different actions or events in your life.
When the game ends, regardless of the fact that there are only three possible endings, the story is not defined solely by those three endings because of the many different actions and decisions the player made in the game.

Endings can very much make or break a story (like that movie Warrior fucking sucks because of those last five minutes), but the quality of the story is not what I'm arguing for. I'm arguing that even though a lot of people have the same endings to their Mass Effect stories, not everyone has the same story, which is exactly why their decisions and choices still mattered even after the ending.

 

[Aprilgold]

Jokes on the gamers! Now, we'll get the same exact ending to every fucking game. The safe, happy ending that nobody has grounds to complain about. Thank you, "retakers". Thank you for your entitled douchebaggery.

Alright, firstly, if you do not understand the word that is Entitled or Entitlement and any variation there of then you should not use it in any circumstance. I am entitled to a product that is fit-for-purpose, thus if I am un-happy with it I am entitled to complain or return the product for compensation. Being entitled is not a insult due to the way the word can be used is almost always in a way of stating a right of a person.

Secondly, if you do not understand what you are arguing against, don't even argue about it. The Retake Mass Effect's movement's goal from the very start was to get Bioware to make a DLC, free or not to make the ending less shitty or to have more closure, not to change it to where everybody lives happily ever after.

As many have pointed out, the ending makes no sense. If we want to get into a very much deeper look at it, in order for Joker to escape the planet with Shephard's teammates who were with him no less then ten minutes earlier, he would have to travel down, convince them to come with him and then leave. Not only would this be completely outside of the character's set motives, no one on the crew would willingly Shepard behind. Mind you this is within a span of ten minutes until you can make your choice. I'm not sure how fast that ship can go but simply convincing them to follow would take something like twenty minutes at least not counting time dodging and / or killing reapers.

Next one is that people randomly appear on the citadel that couldn't have possibly gotten there without Shephard meeting them first before reaching their desired destination.

Last is the God-Child who was never hinted at earlier in the series or even the same game that essentially hands you a Deus Ex Machinima and also rips the options straight from Deus Ex.

Honestly, you don't know enough to comment if you only know what Bob Chapman has been saying for the past few episodes. You come off as someone who doesn't know the situation at all and doesn't even know what word he is using as a insult.

If you wanted better grounds for what you were saying you could have very easily picked up a valuable argument from the internet. The best one I came across was very shallow and essentially just saying that corporations can do no wrong.

In the future, evaluate your points to actually suit what you dislike. This isn't something of personal taste as it is something is being pointed out as shoddy and thousands agree, while thousands jump in front of bullets to protect the publisher from any hate, despite being simultaneously fucked by the publisher in many different aspects. Why couldn't you have made a sensible arguement like Mr or Mrs VMK did?

I think Bioware should just stop making RPG games and start making sport-sims and multiplayer FPSes. At least fans of those games are not as rage-filled as RPG ones, and are more grateful.
And it will bring them more money.

I understand that they could have done it better. I understand that everyone (including me) wanted to see the impact of their actions. But this is just ridiculous. Such ammount of rage and complaints is but a tantrum. Legal complaint? Are you kidding me?!

They [Bioware]have already said, that they, well, "feel us" (On this I trust Bioware); They have already stated that they are making an Extended cut DLC (which, I assure You, will be free: EA won't dare make us pay for it after the whole scandal).
What else do you want? You want them to buy your copies from you and replace it with the "right" ones for free? Maybe a fellatio from Ray Muzyka himself, just for the sake of it?

You played the game, you enjoyed it until the very end, which they will fix.
So stop it. Just stop it. This is literally crazy. It is as if litlle spoiled kid got a fresh, home-made chocolate cookle from his/her grandma, and saw a bit of raw dough on the side:
-UWWAAAAAAAAAAHH!!!!!!! This cookie is bad!!!!
-Honey, please calm down, grandma will fix it.
-No!You messed it up! I hate you!- screamed the child, while eating one cookie after another, for they were delicious, every single one of them. Exept for the one with the dough.

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

Thank you for this for actually providing a little bit of sense on this. Although its completely different between Mass Effect and Star Wars. In Star Wars the scene was perfectly fine and was ultimately hypocritical of George Lucas since he himself preached about the evils of allowing people to change their works. In Mass Effect its a terrible scene that, overall is just not good enough to pass any inspection.

----------------------------------------------------

I called this a while ago that Mass Effect's scandal could very well be brought up with legal action if need be. I wouldn't blame anyone if they did take legal action against Mass Effect 3, due to this actually being truth now, apparently. It has nothing to do with what fans want when it comes to legal shit, it is about what is legal and not illegal, and this just so happens to fall off into the illegal category.

 

[Mournblade94]

I'm going to write two sentences. One is my life/death metaphor; the other is the point I'm trying to make. Let's see where the overlap is.

When you die, regardless of the fact that everyone's state is exactly the same (dead), your life's story is not defined solely by the end result of that life (i.e. you being dead) because of the many different actions or events in your life.
When the game ends, regardless of the fact that there are only three possible endings, the story is not defined solely by those three endings because of the many different actions and decisions the player made in the game.

Endings can very much make or break a story (like that movie Warrior fucking sucks because of those last five minutes), but the quality of the story is not what I'm arguing for. I'm arguing that even though a lot of people have the same endings to their Mass Effect stories, not everyone has the same story, which is exactly why their decisions and choices still mattered even after the ending.

Absolutely. I would be in agreement that very few people had the exact same story. For that extent, the choices mattered.

I am disappointed with Mass Effect 3 for more than the ending. If the ending was adequate I would have just shrugged it off. The Rachni queen was one place where the anticipation was high and a dudd was given. I liked part of ME3, and I disliked parts of ME3. Regardless of the ending for some reason I was hating the London boards.

Problem is after being disappointed with DA2, and ME3 building anticipation and not following through for many people, I am not sure if Bioware stories are worth investing in anymore. That is all plain and simple.

if Bioware changes their ending, that is great. If they don't I have not given it much thought except for these threads. My faith in them as a consumer however is shaken. Where before I looked to Bioware for the genre games I can really get into, Now they are becoming a company that makes 'just another' RPG.

 

[tangoprime]

No, they're getting sued for false advertising, not because the ending sucked (even though it did) but because the choices that you had at the ending achieved nothing. Hell, is it even possible to fail mass effect 3? If I rushed through the game and didn't collect war assets, picking the worst choices, I would still beat the reapers.

There wasn't meaningful choices. At all.

Do you REALLY feel they deserved this? Games marketing ALWAYS promises more than the game could deliver. Why is Bioware being singled out?

Because they lied? They promised so much, like us not getting a A B C choice ending, and that's what we got, we got promised that our choices mattered, they did not, there going down the road that capcom has been on for years, and this is coming from a Mass Effect fan, if you cant tell by my Screen Name.

Exactly. When you GIVE SPECIFIC DETAILS about a product, and those SPECIFIC DETAILS ARE INCORRECT it's called FALSE ADVERTISING.

Project Director Casey Hudson:
?Yeah, and I?d say much more so, because we have the ability to build
the endings out in a way that we don?t have to worry about eventually
tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end
with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At
this point we?re taking into account so many decisions that you?ve made
as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It?s not even in any way
like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings
there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a
lot more sophistication and variety in them.?

...do they now? Because what we were given is exactly, EXACTLY what this entire blurb said we were specifically NOT getting. This, children, is false advertising, and the BBB is correct in their statement.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

You played the game, you enjoyed it until the very end, which they will fix.
So stop it. Just stop it. This is literally crazy. It is as if litlle spoiled kid got a fresh, home-made chocolate cookle from his/her grandma, and saw a bit of raw dough on the side:
-UWWAAAAAAAAAAHH!!!!!!! This cookie is bad!!!!
-Honey, please calm down, grandma will fix it.
-No!You messed it up! I hate you!- screamed the child, while eating one cookie after another, for they were delicious, every single one of them. Exept for the one with the dough.

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

I'm suing Disney! It is NOT the happiest place on earth. Who's with me? Let's report them to the BBB!!! Down with their tyrannical empire of lies!!!!

 

[Aprilgold]

You played the game, you enjoyed it until the very end, which they will fix.
So stop it. Just stop it. This is literally crazy. It is as if litlle spoiled kid got a fresh, home-made chocolate cookle from his/her grandma, and saw a bit of raw dough on the side:
-UWWAAAAAAAAAAHH!!!!!!! This cookie is bad!!!!
-Honey, please calm down, grandma will fix it.
-No!You messed it up! I hate you!- screamed the child, while eating one cookie after another, for they were delicious, every single one of them. Exept for the one with the dough.

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

I'm suing Disney! It is NOT the happiest place on earth. Who's with me? Let's report them to the BBB!!! Down with their tyrannical empire of lies!!!!

Man your missing points all over the place today. You alright man? Eating healthy and all the water you need is being drank?

I never said Mass Effect couldn't have a depressing ending, or that every ending had to be depressing, but your just widely shouting out accusations. Disney can be as happy as long as it wants, because they are good at making movies, Mass Effect can be as grim as it wants, but if its written horribly then its bad. I guess its like comparing a pixar movie to what a kid wrote in english class in Gradeschool. Obviously Pixar is going to be better in every way to that little kid. Pointing out that the kid should try again isn't like telling Pixar to remake a movie.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Man your missing points all over the place today. You alright man? Eating healthy and all the water you need is being drank?

I never said Mass Effect couldn't have a depressing ending, or that every ending had to be depressing, but your just widely shouting out accusations. Disney can be as happy as long as it wants, because they are good at making movies, Mass Effect can be as grim as it wants, but if its written horribly then its bad. I guess its like comparing a pixar movie to what a kid wrote in english class in Gradeschool. Obviously Pixar is going to be better in every way to that little kid. Pointing out that the kid should try again isn't like telling Pixar to remake a movie.

And, I'm saying that DisneyLAND advertises itsself as the "happiest place on earth". I don't think it is. I'm going to report them to the BBB, because that is obviously false advertising. No?

Also, no need for personal insults. Thanks.

 

[tangoprime]

Man your missing points all over the place today. You alright man? Eating healthy and all the water you need is being drank?

I never said Mass Effect couldn't have a depressing ending, or that every ending had to be depressing, but your just widely shouting out accusations. Disney can be as happy as long as it wants, because they are good at making movies, Mass Effect can be as grim as it wants, but if its written horribly then its bad. I guess its like comparing a pixar movie to what a kid wrote in english class in Gradeschool. Obviously Pixar is going to be better in every way to that little kid. Pointing out that the kid should try again isn't like telling Pixar to remake a movie.

And, I'm saying that DisneyLAND advertises itsself as the "happiest place on earth". I don't think it is. I'm going to report them to the BBB, because that is obviously false advertising. No?

Also, no need for personal insults. Thanks.

Okay, well what if the director of Disneyland came out with a specific press release and told you you'd get things for coming to a park, and that turned out to be blatently incorrect? That WOULD be false advertising. See quote by Project Director of Mass Effect 3 above.

 

[Aprilgold]

Man your missing points all over the place today. You alright man? Eating healthy and all the water you need is being drank?

I never said Mass Effect couldn't have a depressing ending, or that every ending had to be depressing, but your just widely shouting out accusations. Disney can be as happy as long as it wants, because they are good at making movies, Mass Effect can be as grim as it wants, but if its written horribly then its bad. I guess its like comparing a pixar movie to what a kid wrote in english class in Gradeschool. Obviously Pixar is going to be better in every way to that little kid. Pointing out that the kid should try again isn't like telling Pixar to remake a movie.

And, I'm saying that DisneyLAND advertises itsself as the "happiest place on earth". I don't think it is. I'm going to report them to the BBB, because that is obviously false advertising. No?

Also, no need for personal insults. Thanks.

Caring about your personal health is now a insult?

Opinions is different then legal actions, I covered this in my first reply. A opinion can not be the only force behind a lawsuit, there has to be something legal behind it. Disagreeing with something does not entitle you to gain money from a lawsuit. Disney Land, if they promised to give you many items such as a ton of Mickey Mouse Dolls if you came on a specific day, publicly and they did not do so then that could very well be false advertising, since you would have most likely not gone there otherwise.

You have so little understanding of everything that your either need to gain a more healthy appetite and grab a good book or your current age has made you ignorant to other things except for your own opinion. My suggestion is to understand what your arguing before you argue it, since you don't even know what qualifies as false advertising.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Okay, well what if the director of Disneyland came out with a specific press release and told you you'd get things for coming to a park, and that turned out to be blatently incorrect? That WOULD be false advertising. See quote by Project Director of Mass Effect 3 above.

I was promised a good time. I did not have it.

 

[tangoprime]

Okay, well what if the director of Disneyland came out with a specific press release and told you you'd get things for coming to a park, and that turned out to be blatently incorrect? That WOULD be false advertising. See quote by Project Director of Mass Effect 3 above.

I was promised a good time. I did not have it.

Okay, well if you can't comprehend the argument, it's not my fault.
Very specific objective things mentioned about a product that are specifically not delivered is different than all the movie advertisements that say it's the best movie of the summer, as that's subjective.

No matter if you still don't understand this line of reasoning, because the BBB does. Good luck with your complaint against Disneyland.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Okay, well what if the director of Disneyland came out with a specific press release and told you you'd get things for coming to a park, and that turned out to be blatently incorrect? That WOULD be false advertising. See quote by Project Director of Mass Effect 3 above.

I was promised a good time. I did not have it.

Okay, well if you can't comprehend the argument, it's not my fault.
Very specific objective things mentioned about a product that are specifically not delivered is different than all the movie advertisements that say it's the best movie of the summer, as that's subjective.

No matter if you still don't understand this line of reasoning, because the BBB does. Good luck with your complaint against Disneyland.

You're trying to discredit me, but you do not understand either. We are talking about the SAME THING. Seriously. You can ***** all you want, but I promise you that your point is just as ridiculous as mine.

 

[Murmillos]

I'm just going to nail down a few points...

I haven't posted on the Escapist in a while, and thank God I continued to stay off this place.

This shit depresses me to no end. Good job, guys. You've single handedly made us gamers look like a bunch of whiny brats.

You know how every week or so, we hear of a woman/man using 911 because a fast food place wouldn't refund their cheeseburger because they forgot to take the tomato's off? Is that one person the poster child of everybody who then complains to the store on a wrong order? No? Yes a few people went over board.. But that in no way makes every body else look like whiny brats. The really few who really whined, do not even make for the small percentage of people who have spoken up, who still make up a small percentage of people who even care.

So the 1%, is not the 99%.

There's criticism, and then there's whining.

If by whining you mean using or voice of our concerns to a company, that we expected to do better?
So let me guess, you have never "whined" in your life; and anytime you don't get what you order you only state "I expect next time that you get it right" instead of them fixing it then and there? Because guess what, anytime you want an immediate fix, by your words, its "whining".

Topping that off with attempting to ruin a company just fucking draws the line.

So if a company no longer delivers on its promise on goods, we should just say thats perfectly fucking ok that they don't deliver, because its a bad that that a company that doesn't deliver on what they goes out of business.
Companies that make crappy produces and don't fix it go out of business. If BioWare no longer wishes to provide games that players feel value of playing, then why should we continue to support them? They no longer provide a value, we find somebody else who does.

Thats the nature of business; if a restaurant continued so serve you undercooked/cold food (thats expected to be warm). Would you continue to eat there, or would you go somewhere else that served you well cooked / warm food? You still must love bad food, because oh no.. because it would be bad if that restaurant goes out of business.

Players are only stating if BioWare can't deliver on good stories, then they have no reason to continue to buy their games (because mostly, game play wasn't great, but you played BioWare games for the mostly above average game story -- RPG players anyways).

If people just said that the ending wasn't good, sure, that's fine. That's just expressing your opinion, which you have every right to do. What makes people dumb is an over exaggeration of the problem. You haven't been cheated here, you just didn't like a small aspect of the game (namely, the 10 minute ending of a 25 - 30 hour game).

Its a ENDING of a trilogy. Just not a 25-30 hour game, but for most people 120 hours. And just not one 120 hours, normally most people had 2-5 Shepard's; each with major differences. Then end result is 0 of those choices matter. Only the score of that choice matters, which can be completely over written by MP. You don't invest 120 hours into something, to let somebody else just stomp all over it and you go "oh lol.. you got me good... ha haa.. this is pure crap.. but oh well.. good show, good show. Lets do it AGAIN!".

Here's a tip, free of charge - if you don't like the game, don't support Bioware in the future.

Thats what we are doing, but we are telling them, "Hey, Fix this, or we won't support you in the future" but wait.. isn't supporting them in the future also risk the chance of ruining a company.. I mean, if enough people don't support them.. then they get shut down.

Hypocrite much?

Plus, most of you guys need to take a step back and say this to yourself - "it's just a game". It seems heavily counterproductive to spend this much time being pissed off at an entertainment product.

So you love all music, all movies, all books and haven't criticize one single aspect of "personal" entertainment, ever?

Yes some people have taken this one issue a little over-board; but those crazy few is not EVERYBODY; nor even "most".

As for the forums, I'm sure no one here cares - but I'm leaving this place for good. Fuck all this negativity and cynicism and wannabe-pessimistic bullshit. I'm just gonna be here to see some weekly videos and the MLP group.

As for The Escapist - "The last bastion of intelligence", my ass. The worst kind of idiots are the ones who think they're smart.

Sounds like you need a hug. Doesn't MLP teach tolerance? Haven't you learned anything from MLP? Sounds like you need to rewatch all of MLP.. 20x. You have a cold cold heart.

 

[Sutter Cane]

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

MovieBob is quite often wrong, or just whining. He is a film critic. His analysis is usually less than scientific.

The difference is George Lucas did not botch his original work. Bioware Botched their original work.

yes they are changing their art for customers who PAY money for their art. Their art was a success visually. The writing of Mass Effect 3 was sub par.

If Bioware cannot write good endings (as evidenced by Dragon Age II, and Mass Effect 3) then I will not PAY money for their art. I won't participate in their art. I am not entitled to a good ending. If I don't get good endings I will cease being a bioware customer. If all the 'retake mass effect fans' feel the same way then THEY will stop being a bioware customer. This will cause Bioware to lose money. In turn they will then realize they have to make the art the customer wants. I am OK with this arrangement.

This is how many people who are upset over the ending feel. The mass effect 3 ending Ruined the otherwise good art. Therefore as a customer I have lost faith in Bioware.

So you're saying that in one situation changing the work is worng, but in the other it's perfectly ok, simply because YOU PERSONALLY DISLIKE the original work in ME's case? wut? How do we apply that to the rest of the world? Should everyone be forced to regard you (or any other individual person really), as the sole arbiter of what is good and what is not?

 

[tangoprime]

Okay, well what if the director of Disneyland came out with a specific press release and told you you'd get things for coming to a park, and that turned out to be blatently incorrect? That WOULD be false advertising. See quote by Project Director of Mass Effect 3 above.

I was promised a good time. I did not have it.

Okay, well if you can't comprehend the argument, it's not my fault.
Very specific objective things mentioned about a product that are specifically not delivered is different than all the movie advertisements that say it's the best movie of the summer, as that's subjective.

No matter if you still don't understand this line of reasoning, because the BBB does. Good luck with your complaint against Disneyland.

You're trying to discredit me, but you do not understand either. We are talking about the SAME THING. Seriously. You can ***** all you want, but I promise you that your point is just as ridiculous as mine.

How so? Disneyland said it was the happiest place on earth and I wasn't happy =/= valid complaint against Disneyland to the BBB. Whereas "Disneyland press release indicates I'd get a day pass and get a 2nd free and when I bought my day pass I didn't get a second free" WOULD be a valid business complaint.

Again- see my earlier post, there were specifics mentioned during the advertising cycle by the project director which turned out to be blatantly and unequivocally incorrect. Also valid product complaint =/= bitching.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Okay, well what if the director of Disneyland came out with a specific press release and told you you'd get things for coming to a park, and that turned out to be blatently incorrect? That WOULD be false advertising. See quote by Project Director of Mass Effect 3 above.

I was promised a good time. I did not have it.

Okay, well if you can't comprehend the argument, it's not my fault.
Very specific objective things mentioned about a product that are specifically not delivered is different than all the movie advertisements that say it's the best movie of the summer, as that's subjective.

No matter if you still don't understand this line of reasoning, because the BBB does. Good luck with your complaint against Disneyland.

You're trying to discredit me, but you do not understand either. We are talking about the SAME THING. Seriously. You can ***** all you want, but I promise you that your point is just as ridiculous as mine.

How so? Disneyland said it was the happiest place on earth and I wasn't happy =/= valid complaint against Disneyland to the BBB. Whereas "Disneyland press release indicates I'd get a day pass and get a 2nd free and when I bought my day pass I didn't get a second free" WOULD be a valid business complaint.

Again- see my earlier post, there were specifics mentioned during the advertising cycle by the project director which turned out to be blatantly and unequivocally incorrect. Also valid product complaint =/= bitching.

If I was promised these things MONTHS before DisneyLand was built, I would agree. You are trying to hold them to something they had intended to and WANTED to build. Time and budget didn't allow them to. Maybe even the tech. And now you want this awesome company, who made a franchise people obviously love, to have this stain on their record? Maybe a little selfish? Maybe?

 

[Mournblade94]

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

MovieBob is quite often wrong, or just whining. He is a film critic. His analysis is usually less than scientific.

The difference is George Lucas did not botch his original work. Bioware Botched their original work.

yes they are changing their art for customers who PAY money for their art. Their art was a success visually. The writing of Mass Effect 3 was sub par.

If Bioware cannot write good endings (as evidenced by Dragon Age II, and Mass Effect 3) then I will not PAY money for their art. I won't participate in their art. I am not entitled to a good ending. If I don't get good endings I will cease being a bioware customer. If all the 'retake mass effect fans' feel the same way then THEY will stop being a bioware customer. This will cause Bioware to lose money. In turn they will then realize they have to make the art the customer wants. I am OK with this arrangement.

This is how many people who are upset over the ending feel. The mass effect 3 ending Ruined the otherwise good art. Therefore as a customer I have lost faith in Bioware.

So you're saying that in one situation changing the work is worng, but in the other it's perfectly ok, simply because YOU PERSONALLY DISLIKE the original work in ME's case? wut? How do we apply that to the rest of the world? Should everyone be forced to regard you (or any other individual person really), as the sole arbiter of what is good and what is not?

Correct.

I was going to post about lucas realizing art belongs to the public but the previous poster covered that.

I am saying changing the Greedo han solo exchange was wrong. it was already fine as is, and if you notice it does not look right in the new rendition. It made the work worse. It looks unnatural.

Changing the mass effect ending would be fine because the writers did a half job. It was botched.

It is easy to apply to the rest of the world. If a significant amount of customers were unsatisfied with a company's commercial art, the company risks sales in the future. Businesses have figured that out ages ago. See easy answer.

Yes people should be forced to regard me as the final arbiter of what is good and what is not.

 

[Mournblade94]

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

MovieBob is quite often wrong, or just whining. He is a film critic. His analysis is usually less than scientific.

The difference is George Lucas did not botch his original work. Bioware Botched their original work.

yes they are changing their art for customers who PAY money for their art. Their art was a success visually. The writing of Mass Effect 3 was sub par.

If Bioware cannot write good endings (as evidenced by Dragon Age II, and Mass Effect 3) then I will not PAY money for their art. I won't participate in their art. I am not entitled to a good ending. If I don't get good endings I will cease being a bioware customer. If all the 'retake mass effect fans' feel the same way then THEY will stop being a bioware customer. This will cause Bioware to lose money. In turn they will then realize they have to make the art the customer wants. I am OK with this arrangement.

This is how many people who are upset over the ending feel. The mass effect 3 ending Ruined the otherwise good art. Therefore as a customer I have lost faith in Bioware.

So you're saying that in one situation changing the work is worng, but in the other it's perfectly ok, simply because YOU PERSONALLY DISLIKE the original work in ME's case? wut? How do we apply that to the rest of the world? Should everyone be forced to regard you (or any other individual person really), as the sole arbiter of what is good and what is not?

Correct.

I was going to post about lucas realizing art belongs to the public but the previous poster covered that.

I am saying changing the Greedo han solo exchange was wrong. it was already fine as is, and if you notice it does not look right in the new rendition. It made the work worse. It looks unnatural.

Changing the mass effect ending would be fine because the writers did a half job. It was botched.

Why am I saying that? Because the world is not black and white. What applies to one case does not apply to the other.

It is easy to apply to the rest of the world. If a significant amount of customers were unsatisfied with a company's commercial art, the company risks sales in the future. Businesses have figured that out ages ago. See easy answer.

Yes people should be forced to regard me as the final arbiter of what is good and what is not.

 

[porpoise hork]

Sweet Jesus tap dancing Christ people it's just a video game.

Bioware ain't Burger King, you can't always have it your way..

I went out and got all three editions and play them just to see what the fuss is all about..

And you want to know what I have come to about it? I don't have a single issue with the way they ended the game.

Why?

IT'S THEIR GAME!

That's how they wanted to end it.


If you thought the end sucks well ok thats your opinion and many of you have made more than enough stink about it. Seriously its time to move on.

 

[Sutter Cane]

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

MovieBob is quite often wrong, or just whining. He is a film critic. His analysis is usually less than scientific.

The difference is George Lucas did not botch his original work. Bioware Botched their original work.

yes they are changing their art for customers who PAY money for their art. Their art was a success visually. The writing of Mass Effect 3 was sub par.

If Bioware cannot write good endings (as evidenced by Dragon Age II, and Mass Effect 3) then I will not PAY money for their art. I won't participate in their art. I am not entitled to a good ending. If I don't get good endings I will cease being a bioware customer. If all the 'retake mass effect fans' feel the same way then THEY will stop being a bioware customer. This will cause Bioware to lose money. In turn they will then realize they have to make the art the customer wants. I am OK with this arrangement.

This is how many people who are upset over the ending feel. The mass effect 3 ending Ruined the otherwise good art. Therefore as a customer I have lost faith in Bioware.

So you're saying that in one situation changing the work is worng, but in the other it's perfectly ok, simply because YOU PERSONALLY DISLIKE the original work in ME's case? wut? How do we apply that to the rest of the world? Should everyone be forced to regard you (or any other individual person really), as the sole arbiter of what is good and what is not?

Because it seems like you (like MovieBob) have missed the point, here's something to clear it up:

Mass Effect is a game series, sold to gamers on promises of what the product will be. These promises constitute as advertising, allowing us to buy the product based on this advertorial promises. They are not delivered and the game, as it stands, is unlike the content that we were told it was in an attempt to make us buy said product. Similar to having been advertised a large, well done steak and instead delivered a small, rare slab of it. You ask for this product to be changed.

Star Wars is a film. It was created by a number of people, of which, ironically, Lucas was on a relatively lower ladder. The majority of the masterful work was created in the editing room, after quite a few disastrous screenings. The film was released. It found an audience. The director held speeches about how art now belongs to the public. That is shouldn't be messed with. Years pass, Lucas goes and tampers with the original material, doing away with traces of the original work as extensively as he can. Altering history and the art that he claimed belonged to the public. The public cries out; don't mess with that, it's not broken. Or mess with it, fine, but leave us the originals. Lucas does not comply, but continues his alterations further - into the domain of films that are not even directed by him, thus going further against his previous statements. Again, the public calls him out on it.

Better now? Notice how such actions are not in fact against each other in the slightest, but actually follow a very similar logic?

I fail to see a significant difference, as both are works of art. I'm not even saying that its wrong for bioware to change the ending, I'm just asking for a little consistency is all. Do you think it should be ok for an artist or groups of artists go go back and alter a creative work after its release to attempt to improve it?

If its ok to do so, then lucas has the right to continue to change star wars in any way he sees fit, no matter how much it seemingly damages the film, if its not ok, then bioware should have stuck with the original shitty ending.

Also just fir the record, I support bioware doing the extended ending. In fact my position before they announced it kinda fell in between the two extremes of the argument over changing the ending, which was "If bioware feels that a changed ending would improve the ending, then they should go right ahead and change it, but if they are happy with the released ending, they are not morally obligated to change it."