BioWare "Falsely Advertised" Mass Effect 3

[Krion_Vark]

i know i'm talking about different fanbases here and i know that the fans of ME are bigger in numbers, but why do i only hear complaining on ME3 when SFxTK did exactly the same and in my opinion much worse. they promised a feature, that would give you the ability to play with a friend on the couch the game co-op, what happened? it was only available on the ps3 version and there will be no patch to put it on the xbox 360 version or the pc version, that still has to come out. not getting a promised feature is in my eyes much worse then not getting a a promised fulfilled they make everything and does not ever really happen. after all, whatever you do, you are doing the same stuff as everyone else with sometimes a character switched or some different dialogue, never you are really playing different events.

with that out off the way, what do people hope that will happen now? you are already getting the extended cut DLC and hopefully they have listened for there next game. i do understand why people are frustrated with what happened, but some people are really taking it far.

Do not forget having a lot of the DLC characters already on the disc.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I wasn't aware that anyone was suing for false advertising. I would love to see any source at all you have on this. This story certainly isn't about a lawsuit against them for false advertising.

Also I didn't equate anything to criticism, I was merely talking about criticism. Please highlight anywhere in my post where I even implied that suing them was equal to criticism.

Sometimes customers do feel they are entitled to better, and generally speaking businesses can decide for themselves whether they value their business enough to satisfy them. I've had problems at restaurants before, sometimes I don't even need to say a word before they have decided to pay for it or reimburse in some way. It's just business.

Before the game came out they clearly made some statements that do not fit with what I have heard the game delivers. Whether that qualifies as false advertising or not is not for you or I to decide, but rather people like the Better Business Bureau or the courts.

No one is saying it is wrong to criticise? First of all, I don't remember addressing anyone in particular, so how can you even claim for certain that I was talking about anyone here directly? Maybe I'm just posting my personal feelings on the matter with regards to things I have personally seen. But hey, feel free to prove to me that no where in my life experience I have ever seen someone crush or discourage legitimate criticism over this game and I will totally cop to the accusations of strawman.

Your analogy is flawed but I'm sure you know that. Few analogies are ever perfect. Anyways, fans of the book could theoretically call for a new ending to be written, and under similar situations as ME3 they could even be seen to have a legitimate cause. I mean BioWare didn't get sufficient time to do an ending like they really wanted to do.

EA pushed them to released the game, and so they were forced to compromise their own vision by rushing some of the last parts of the game. It's well documented that they had to actually delay some voice recording sessions, for instance Sheen's, because they didn't have an ending finalised until very late in development. Also BioWare sure was quick to announce an update to help flesh out their ending, which they are more than willing to do.

In other words if anyone compromised BioWare's artistic vision here it was EA, because they were more worried about their bottom line in whatever quarter than allowing ME3 to be realised to the best of BioWare's ability. I'm sure if an author felt like they had been rushed and didn't do their ending justice they might also be willing to rewrite or clarify some parts of their ending.

I know this will be hard for you to admit as being reasonable, because it's hard to ever be wrong especially on the internet, so I understand if you need to be difficult in response.

I was totally in error in the lawsuit front. I apologise.

You make some good points. Refering to your earlier post it was heavily implied that by opposing the whole "retake" mass effect scene you are opposing our right to critisize a medium. No one on this thread has done so, id like you to share any personal experience you have with anyone ever who told you it is not ok to critisize a medium under any circumstance. Do share.

Now in regard to EA forcing a rushed game and the DEVELOPERS being unhappy with the ending. Thats a different matter. If the creators of a piece of work dont like it and want to change it thats absolutely fine. The line is drawn when fans begin "demanding" changes or acting as if they own the intellectual property. If i made a series of paintings and everyone hated the last one BUT i liked it id keep it the way it was and no amount of "retaking" would be able to, or should be able to force me to do otherwise. Those who have legitimate issues with the ending have every right to complain, to let bioware know they created a substandard experience but i dont feel they have any right to "retake" something that was never theirs.

If bioware feel their work needs changing and want to change it thne they should be able to. I would support such an action fully. I mean i thought the ending of eregon was the biggest tonne of shit ive ever read. Other fans agree. You think a retake eregon movement would be reasonable?

Everyone in this thread who doesnt like retake posts about people being whiney for demanding changes. It was even in critical miss, its a common opinion.

You say that apparently "critisizing the game makes people whiney" according to "some people" who are undefined.

I linked two and two and it seemed to me as if you were equating critisizm with the demand for changes. But if such an experience came from outside the thread that was my mistake. I can only draw on what im seeing in the context of where you posted it.

I think Bioware should change the ending, id buy it then, applying pressure for quality with my wallet is just business. Really basic business. My issue is with people who think they MUST change it for them after they buy it without full knowlegde of what they are going to get. When you pre order you take a risk. Its a pretty obvious risk and if it doesnt work out for you tough luck. If a businessman said "pay to have whats in this box, the last 2 boxes have been awesome, give me money then you can open the box" and you paid for the box and didnt like it how is that anyones fault but yours. You didnt buy it of course but i have little pity for those that preordered and got something they didnt expect.

I also have little pity for those that KNEW the ending was bad, got it anyway, then complained about the ending being bad. Dont buy a product if its apparently iredeemably bad.

 

[violent_quiche]

I have fewer issues with the way the story was resolved than the way key pieces of lore were carved off into saleable dlc chunks (as if a living god damn PROTHEAN was somehow irrelevant to the story). My issue is that if it really does provide closure, really does wrap up the threads, why the gosh darn blinking fuck was it not in the game to begin with?

No way of knowing of course; but without the massive backlash against the original ending, I'd lay down good money that this dlc and the recent multiplayer packs would never have been free.

 

[Numb1lp]

I know you report what gets views... but GOD DAMN, can we just drop the Mass Effect shit.

sorry for going off the handle but I am more than sick of hearing about this. I know I don't have to read it, but I do see it popping up every other thread made.

I suppose I have to ask why you apologized for an outburst on the internet, when you clearly had to write out the words and then force yourself to hit post...

 

[Eric the Orange]

I know you report what gets views... but GOD DAMN, can we just drop the Mass Effect shit.

sorry for going off the handle but I am more than sick of hearing about this. I know I don't have to read it, but I do see it popping up every other thread made.

I suppose I have to ask why you apologized for an outburst on the internet, when you clearly had to write out the words and then force yourself to hit post...

Apologizing does not necessarily mean it was a mistake, or that you would not do it again. In this case it was more meant to denote the rarity of the case. As a general rule I don't put emotions into online posts as without tone of voice or body language to help it can be hard to interpret meaning.

 

[Edward Aunchman]

Bio ware you can shove your "artistic Intergrity" Up Satans ass because thats where it belongs.You ripped those endings STRAIGHT from Deus Ex Human revolution.CONGRATS BIOWARE You have succeeded in pissing off 97.5 percent of your Entire fan base.Hey guys word of advice unless they give alternate ending dlc boycot mass effect 4 if they try and release it because obviously its going to be a piece of complete crap.I payed over 70 dollars and invested over 100 hours into this game series I AM ENTITLED TO A BETTER FUCKING ENDING. I dont give a flying fuck what anyone else says.Yes yes they do deserve this they have been doing this for god knows how long IT HAS TO STOP NOW.

 

[webkilla]

Gentlemen, check out this lovely ad that EA/Bioware put out...

 

[Uszi]

In other words, Mass Effect has become Star Wars.

Yeah, I think this is pretty much true. I actually have friends who care more about Mass Effect than Star Wars, so.

Oh for fu...

People, for the love of god, get over it.

People starve to death every day and some of you won't get the fuck over a video game ending. I'm sure it's the worst thing to ever happen to you and all, but with all the rape, murder, poverty and homelessness going on around the world and in our own backyards, you'll forgive me if I don't drop to my knees and cry with you.

First, how about you get over the fact that people are complaining. "I'm sure [people complaining about the ME3 ending is] the worst thing to ever happen to you and all, but with all the rape, murder, poverty and homelessness going on around..." I mean, seriously. Getting your panties in a bunch because someone else has their panties in a bunch doesn't make your bunched panties more valid.

Also, you do realize you can literally invalidate any argument, anywhere, ever, by shifting it's scope to make the initial terms of the argument invalid:

Denied a promotion?
People are starving get over it!

Your child died in a car crash?
Whole families are being slaughtered in Sudan!

Etc.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Denied a promotion?
People are starving get over it!

Your child died in a car crash?
Whole families are being slaughtered in Sudan!

Etc.

Being denied a promotion and losing your child in an accident are both valid reasons to be upset and I wouldn't hold it against someone if they felt the need to vent a little. Disliking the way a fucking video game ended is not.

It's not even that I'm sick of it or angry that they care, anymore. Honestly, it isn't. It's so tired and played out that I think most of the normal people are just over it. The anti-retake Mass Effect 3 stuff isn't even funny anymore. What really annoys me about all this is how intense people get over it. A few forums posts here and there, and I'd think whatever--people have the right to complain a little if something disappointed them. It's around the time thousands of people gather en mass to send cupcakes to Bioware that you start to get sick of hearing about it. But, again, whatever. It's only when it gets into this pathetic area of genuine whinging that I just tweak a little. People seriously get upset and throw god-honest-tantrums about it. Still worse yet are the people who do that and then go on to try and convince the rest of us Bioware had an obligation to them and genuinely try to have real discussions about the supposed impact of the ending on their lives and how they should sue, blah, blah, blah, you get the idea.

That was a pretty thick wall of text, sorry. I'll remove the fluff: people being disappointed in the ending is fine with me. People talking to others about how the ending disappointed them is cool by me. But when people and entire groups start trying to tell us all that we should care and that the entire thing is some huge travesty, I draw a big 'ol line.

I try not to direct any of my frustrations at individuals who just say "Hey, I think the ending was pretty shit. Would be cool if they could change it or something." 90% of the people talking about this stuff, are saying things like that. It's the very, very vocal minority that I want to just (lightly) slap and shake a little. I mean... guys... it's a video game. Yeah, you don't like the ending. That sucks for you. But at some point, just move on. I really don't wanna go into the basement dwelling stereotype (hell, I AM that stereotype and aside from my boyfriend, I don't do much with anyone or go anywhere, lol) but it really makes you to just scream out: "It's a video game! Go outside for once in your life and get some perspective!"

But that would be rude >_>

Anyway, you're right; I need to just get over it, too.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Gentlemen, check out this lovely ad that EA/Bioware put out...

Ha, and there were people who doubted me when I said that EA and Bioware did this on purpose to spark controversy and get lots of free press as a result!

Looks like I wasn't wrong about that after all, eh? Perhaps those of you who wanted to get me fitted for a tinfoil hat should come on over to the cynical side with me now. XD

Can I wear a sexy tinfoil hat if I do?

But seriously: I don't think EA expected THIS level of drama and controversy. They certainly wanted something that would make people talk and they aren't complaining about it (see: that image and all the sales they game has) but I don't believe they planned it to be this extreme.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Gentlemen, check out this lovely ad that EA/Bioware put out...

That's absolutely wretched and brilliant. Twisting this overblown controversy into an advertisement...but if there is anything that screams "deceitful" it's shit like this.

We can't have good things when people keep supporting companies do pull shit like THAT.

 

[ThunderCavalier]

Oh shit, we now have lawyers screwing around in this debacle.

I'm not a fan of the ending, I won't deny, but I really hope people don't see this, "Technically, ME3 used False Advertising" thing as a way to really make things bad.

 

[Numb1lp]

I know you report what gets views... but GOD DAMN, can we just drop the Mass Effect shit.

sorry for going off the handle but I am more than sick of hearing about this. I know I don't have to read it, but I do see it popping up every other thread made.

I suppose I have to ask why you apologized for an outburst on the internet, when you clearly had to write out the words and then force yourself to hit post...

Apologizing does not necessarily mean it was a mistake, or that you would not do it again.

Actually, it kind of does.

 

[mxfox408]

/spit

 

[Something Amyss]

They are different, though. Your choices along the way affect what ending you get. If you don't have enough GR, you don't get Synthesis, and the cutscenes are slightly different for the other two. Plus, if you get enough, then the destroy option gets the extra scene.

You might not like it, but it's still there. And it will most certainly hold up in court.

"slightly different" doesn't meet the claims, however.

Red, blue and green are very different colours, you know. I'm not saying that they are completely different, but lawyers definitely can. This litigation is a waste of everyone's time.

Not to mention, the specific claims of not getting an A B or C ending.

Which is why there are seven endings [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPelM2hwhJA&feature=related]. Seventh is the one with the bonus scene.

You are trying to dice very fine. Arguing that lawyers can get away with it's kind of pointless, since consumers have won on grounds like this before. It also doesn't hurt that, while not a state organisation with legal repercussions, the BBB does agree.

Most game lies don't come down to something that specific, including your example of Peter Molyneux.

Well this time, the lies were really really specific, which is the reason people are pissed off.

Exactly the point.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

This thread provides all kinds of insights on the Escapist frequenters. We're actually having a conversation about whether BioWare deserve a negative outcome for lying. Finally, dishonesty is on its way out as a negative trait.

(image)

That was truly illuminating.

That's exactly how I feel about it. It's frustrating that so many gamers feel the need to purge their own ranks of malcontents. Worse, most of the attacks don't deal with the content of the complaints but the fact that they are being voiced at all.

 

[Mournblade94]

This thread provides all kinds of insights on the Escapist frequenters. We're actually having a conversation about whether BioWare deserve a negative outcome for lying. Finally, dishonesty is on its way out as a negative trait.

(image)

That was truly illuminating.

This. THIS. SO MUCH THIS.

Objectively. The 'complaining about the complainers'-complainers are grasping at straws, and the retake movement (which definetly should've named itself differently) is right.

Why is there ANY discussion over this when objectively:
-Bioware promised us that this exact thing would not happen, multiple times.
-Bioware has up untill now (although I personally think 2&3 were sloppily written overal) held up it's standard of writing, untill the very last most important part of the game.

Expecting a company to do what it promises, and we know it CAN do, and is expected to do? Pffffft, so unreasonable.

Now it's my turn to say it: YOU JUST DON'T GET IT.

(See, it sounds obnoxious when you say that about every opinion contrary to your own, doesn't it?)

No, really, you don't. Most people don't even care whether or not you're right any more, they're just tired of hearing about it. Folks have been complaining about this non-stop since the game released. Thread after thread saying pretty much the exact same thing, argument upon argument in which critics would say "you're wrong" and the complainers would say "YOU JUST DON'T GET IT" and the cycle repeats itself. Over and over. No one stops to consider that perhaps the ending of the game legitimately does suck (unless by some miraculous coincidence the Indoctrination Theory winds up being true). Nor does anyone stop to think that perhaps not everyone cares, as Mass Effect 3 is not the only game on the market and the last ten minutes of the game does not merit over a month's worth of heavily slanted media coverage.

Has anyone thought about the fact that we've expended millions of hours and witnessed the anger of untold hundreds of thousands of people purely over the last ten minutes of a video game? And you don't understand why people might be a tad bit exhausted of this? Ever since the game's release it's been topic after topic, thread after thread of this same thing for over a month now. It's exhausting, especially since every single thread has said the exact same thing and reiterated the same arguments.

Fine, it's a bad ending. Fine, you probably deserved a better one. But you're not getting it because Bioware has already said they won't change it. Can this discussion be OVER ALREADY? You're going to have to live with it, and it's clear that no amount of further bitching will change their minds....and why would it? They already got your money, and most of you have already missed your opportunity to return the game by now.

Quit the hyperbole.

The reason you see thread after thread about this HERE is because you are reading a thread about it.

I think about the mass effect ending fail when I am in this thread. Not 24 hours a day. I do not assume that an internet poster posting an opinion ONLY thinks of that topic.

A good rule of thumb to follow: If you are sick of something do not open threads about the topic that you are tired of hearing about. Simple.

 

[bfgmetalhead]

Im so sick of people complaing about ME3 Im going to start the "shut up about ME3 movemnt"

WHO'S WITH ME?!

nope.avi

this has to happen. It is a new high in consumer reactions, yes it is a tad over-the-top in some places, however this will teach companies to treat their advertisements with more care in the future. The end of this whole thing is coming, but the example remains.

P.s I support the retake movement and do wish for a diffrent ending, Just so ya know

 

[Adultism]

This whole mass effect debacle deserves a HUGE facepalm. I mean JEEZ we have been dealing with this since the game came out, and it doesn't seem like it will come to a standstill any time soon.

 

[Murmillos]

Now in regard to EA forcing a rushed game and the DEVELOPERS being unhappy with the ending. Thats a different matter. If the creators of a piece of work dont like it and want to change it thats absolutely fine.

BioWare may not be in a situation where they can openly blame EA for the ending. I've seen some developers blame one time partnerships with publishers for game issues X Y and Z, and the publisher respond likewise. BioWare, even if the developers, writers and art team are all modified over the ending, their marching orders are shut up or walk out. If not enough people at BioWare are willing to stick together (or they still have DLC obligations to fulfill before they get any post game launch bonus, all they can do is let EA PR talk for them.

The line is drawn when fans begin "demanding" changes or acting as if they own the intellectual property.

I think we all understand, that regardless of the situation, product or cost of item, there are people who will "demand" a fix. Somehow the few who do "demand" are all of a sudden the mast majority of the 'disappointed in the ending' group.

And just what is the difference between somebody "demanding" a change, and saying "not changing the ending may jeopardize the amount of money I will pay for your next game"? Probably you can't explain, because its just easier to use derogatory terms such as "entitled whiners" and "demand" instead of "disappointed gamers" "strongly wanting a change".

If i made a series of paintings and everyone hated the last one BUT i liked it id keep it the way it was and no amount of "retaking" would be able to, or should be able to force me to do otherwise.

Lets just continue this silly hypothetical situation of yours:
Lets say you did a series of paints with a very specific "design", all pictures put together would be part of one larger whole and somebody paid you in advance for those paintings to be completed. As you continued painting for said client, you explicitly make promises to very specific features/styles/colors of said paintings that the client would get to enjoy, even while said paintings were finally being shipped to said client. Finally when he opens up those paintings, one by one, all of them are as promised, except for one - the last one. All of the other paintings fit together and look great together except for this one panting that is the center piece. The client comes back and goes; "I don't understand why you did the last painting like this .. it wasn't what you promised me and I would like that you change it. I suggest that you do change it if you want us to continued business."

You think about it.. on one hand, you did promise him that last painting was going to be the paintings that made the whole picture "complete". But on the other hand, your last minute artist integrity is at stake. You know other people will still buy your work, but will they buy your work in lower volume, or wait until its at a lower price? How much of your name are you willing to gamble that it gets mangled over a continued implied promise vrs your own skill with the brush.

This isn't some random indie developers one off game with no implied promise with a "bad" ending. This is a developer who went out of their way to make it very clearly stated and understood from since the launch of ME1, that "Player Agency", the players own choices and actions would matter and make a very impact full change at the end.

Those who have legitimate issues with the ending have every right to complain, to let bioware know they created a substandard experience but i dont feel they have any right to "retake" something that was never theirs.

I think the "retake" message was more like a movie "retake", not in re-take and do it our way, but "come on BioWare, you know this isn't right and we think you know what we wanted; go back and do a "retake".

Your right, the property of Mass Effect isn't ours, but you know what is ours, the experience. We would really really like for, perhaps even want, even to the threat of future business, that BioWare should redo their efforts so we may have a chance to "retake" the ending; to something that is more palatable, that continues the theme and logic the previous 100 hours taught us to learn.

It doesn't have to be an ending that we necessarily like, but it should be an ending that we can understand. Most mature gamers can respectfully disliked an ending, and at least understood the meaning and why the that ending was the ending. But ME3 doesn't give us that respect to allow us to respect it back.
That lack of respect is the reason that this force over the dislike of the ending continues on strongly for as long as it has.

If bioware feel their work needs changing and want to change it thne they should be able to. I would support such an action fully. I mean i thought the ending of eregon was the biggest tonne of shit ive ever read. Other fans agree. You think a retake eregon movement would be reasonable?

Any ending can garner a "retake" group (and most do in some form or fashion). Most last a week or two, but then fizzle down as most people don't partake because there was no promise or personal involvement to said medium. Mass Effect is very different because it was my choice if my Shepard liked Garret and Wrex and Tali, or not to like any of them. And may other players feel this way. Since our interaction was to matter, then why take that away at the very last minute to impose a new unclear message at the very end.