BioWare: Final Fantasy XIII is Not an RPG

[Bigeyez]

If by Mediocre you mean the most acclaimed Western RPG developer by both fans and critics with hit Triple A game after hit Triple A game, then yes Bioware is "mediocre".
*rolls eyes* "look at me guys I'll be cool by going against the crowd and making bold statements!".

So it's the most acclaimed developer by it's fans? Either you're being incredibly redundant or attempting to state that opinions are objective (which would be equally as idiotic).

Also, just because somebody doesn't like something you do, doesn't mean their a troll. Is that really too hard to comprehend?

I was using the term "fans" as in "RPG fans" and not just Bioware fans, but thats beside the point.

You didn't say that you didn't like something. You made a comment calling the company mediocre. I don't like the Beatles, but you don't see me calling them talentless hacks. So, Yes what you said was a troll comment and you know it.

 

[Hawgh]

I tend to agree. It is a poor role you play when you cannot affect the story or characters.

 

[slopeslider]

According to Bioware every FF game ever made isn't an rpg. FF 1-13 never let you create a character or make plot decisions or get busy with aliens. I don't know why some people say FF6 is a good rpg, you cant even select who your love interest is or dialog options!

 

[GenHellspawn]

I was using the term "fans" as in "RPG fans" and not just Bioware fans, but thats beside the point.

You didn't say that you didn't like something. You made a comment calling the company mediocre. I don't like the Beatles, but you don't see me calling them talentless hacks. So, Yes what you said was a troll comment and you know it.

I'm an RPG fan, why do I not count?

Also, I said Bioware was a mediocre developer because that's what I think of them, and if you were one to think that the Beatles were talentless hacks then there's nothing that's preventing you from saying it. Do you inhabit some alternate reality where there are standard opinions that one must conform to, and anybody who breaks with this trend is simply faking it for attention? I cannot understand at all how you can figure me a troll.

 

[Rayansaki]

Nevermind, silly me.

 

[Rayansaki]

Buh double post

 

[Loonerinoes]

I was using the term "fans" as in "RPG fans" and not just Bioware fans, but thats beside the point.

You didn't say that you didn't like something. You made a comment calling the company mediocre. I don't like the Beatles, but you don't see me calling them talentless hacks. So, Yes what you said was a troll comment and you know it.

I'm an RPG fan, why do I not count?

Also, I said Bioware was a mediocre developer because that's what I think of them, and if you were one to think that the Beatles were talentless hacks then there's nothing that's preventing you from saying it. Do you inhabit some alternate reality where there are standard opinions that one must conform to, and anybody who breaks with this trend is simply faking it for attention? I cannot understand at all how you can figure me a troll.

You know why? Because you never offer an opinion of what you LIKE in an RPG.

Give an example of a developer that is NOT mediocre and does a better job than Bioware. And even better, give an example of a game (an RPG) that you like and why you think it does things better than what Bioware does.

Otherwise you are nothing other than a troll. Attacking what other people like, but never exposing what you yourself like for fear of having it attacked.

Same shit you pulled during the March Mayhem spamfest really...

 

[Danpascooch]

I define RPG as a game with a high level of character customization, exploration, and sidequests that are littered throughout the game, you know, not "go kill this" quests that they throw into THE LAST 3 HOURS OF THE GAME!

If that was the last three hours of your game, then what the HELL game were you playing? Cause it sure as hell wasn't the same FF13 I played. I got the first sidequest at hour twenty, and still had thirty or fourty more hours of game to go before I was done.
Fucking fuck, I swear, it seems like half the people who bought FF13 bought it to have something to complain about.

Anyway, I prefer my RPGs that are able to sacrifice story for battle (FFXIII, FFV, and like, EVERY DRAGON QUEST) or can strike a perfect balance (MegaTen, Shadow Hearts)

But Brain_Cleanser, those are all JRPGs!
Yeah, because I haven't found a single WRPG thats fit my taste. I think BioWare should go write some books if they're so good at writing, and I've failed to find a single WRPG that can engross me or endear me to the characters.
Basically, I feel Japan does it right, and the West should stick to action and FPS games.
I know this makes me sound like a prick, but I really don't care.

It was the last three hours if you skip said sidequests, they had tens of hours of linear gameplay, then right before the end, they open up an area with sidequests, I spent a ton of time there, but still, it's like someone in the studio said "Oh SHIT, we ship in two months and there are NO SIDEQUESTS!, QUICK PUT SOME IN!!!!"

 

[AndreyC]

When I said "Bioware was dumb" It was metonymic. By "Bioware" I meant Bioware's PR or whoever said this. And I know this is his opinion, what I argued is that he seems to be heavily uninformed about what RPGs to have such an opinion. But I don't blame him, really. The majority of gamers try to define RPG by the name alone, when the genre has a whole history. By doing that, they are mislead by the "role" in "Role Playing Games", and so they tend to think all RPGs need to follow the Storyteller system. The interviewed fell for the same mistake. I just think BioWare's PR should have an above average knowledge on the matter when talking about this, because he REPRESENTS BioWare PUBLICLY (that's what PRs do, isn't it?)

Saying Final Fantasy XIII is not an RPG is controvertial, but acceptable. Saying FFXIII is not an RPG because "you don't make choices, you don't create a character, you don't live a character" is saying all games need those elements to be RPGs. This statement ignores the whole history of the genre, and for that I say it was dumb to talk about something you don't know, especially when you work with Public Relations.

 

[GenHellspawn]

You know why? Because you never offer an opinion of what you LIKE in an RPG.

Give an example of a developer that is NOT mediocre and does a better job than Bioware.

Okay, I guess that's a fair assumption.

To answer your question, I would put forward Troika Games and Black Isle. VTM, Arcanum, and Fallout 1/2 are quite frankly the best RPGs I've ever played.

 

[Pimppeter2]

I'm sorry BioWare, but the RPG title has been abused so much that it barely resembles the old meaning.

 

[Mr. Win]

Saying FF XIII isn't an RPG is sorta wrong because that still indicates that FF XIII is a game, which it isn't. FF XIII is an interactive movie where you run down hallways from cutscene to cutscene. It's somewhat like Heavy Rain but it makes even less sense somehow. It's actually worse than Xenosaga or the MGS series which, until FF13, took the prize for the highest percentage of incomprehensible cutscenes. But FF13 now claims that prize. The former two at least had some game between the movies. Out of the say.. 30hrs it takes to play FF13.. how much of that would you say is actual game? Maybe 10hrs? Probably less.

Actually, no. There are only 9 hours of cutscenes in Final Fantasy 13 (a staggering number in any event), which is the same amount of cutscenes in MGS4. Should you consider how much shorter MGS4 is, the ratio is a tad more uneven between games.

FF's have always defined their RPGness as turn based combat, high customization of equipment, story based focus and creating a huge new world.

FFXIII does all this exactly like it's predecessors. The only real difference is a lack of towns and sidequests, which I don't feel define a JRPG but are far more valid

What huge world are you seeing in FF XIII? Yeah, you get that it's there. In the same way when you play Half Life, you know there's a big world out there, but you sure as hell don't get to see it. The huge horizon view cut scenes don't count. There are no towns, no proper stores, no side quests (unless you count that monster hunting crap they use to artificially create a "post-game", which I don't and no one should) and you only see a few blocks of the "city" of Cocoon and a few square miles of Pulse. It's an even smaller feeling game than FF X was. [/quote] I sort of agree here. Cocoon (and every location ever save for Archylte Steppe) were just the same TUBE. But I still found Pulse beautiful and I enjoyed spending time in it. That being said, SE really needs to find new level designers.

There's 6 basic weapons for each person but it's not as though they're improvements, each one just caters to a different set of paradigms and since you can't shift weapons mid fight, is utterly pointless. There's no high customization, you just up their attack and/or magic stats. That's basic and boring as it gets.

Agreed here too. The point was less about customization and more about the battles.

And oh yeah, this game is story focused. The story makes no sense, but the game spends 90% of the time shoving cut scenes down your throat and begrudgingly let you walk down the hallways between them.

Actually, until the halfway point, I found the story to make a lot of sense. It all FIT at least. Then they introduced Barthandelus which sort of ruined everything.

And FF13's combat isn't turn based! How can someone even attempt to claim that it is? It barely even qualifies as combat. It's closer to picking selections off an poorly laid out spreadsheet. It's "almost" an action game except for the fact you don't get to move your characters and all you do is pick your attacks from a list.

So, it's a FF game? I don't get what you're saying here. FFX is the only main series game in recent memory that was traditional turn-based. You always pick your attacks from a list. This has always been the combat. Only now you get an auto battle function (which I didn't use because I'm not a woman).

 

[Tom Goldman]

It's useless to get into the debate over the definition of an RPG, but even Square Enix once told 1up [http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3178060] that Final Fantasy XIII wasn't designed using the RPG template. Final Fantasy XIII is the only Final Fantasy title that seems to be pushing away a huge segment of the hardcore audience that would have at one time supported it vehemently. I've got to agree with Erickson here, even games like Mass Effect 2, which has been criticized for losing some traditional RPG elements, feel more like RPGs lately than Final Fantasy XIII due to the choices players can make with regards to their own characters. Years ago, I doubt anyone would have predicted that Final Fantasy XIII would fall off of the RPG ladder to any extent, let alone become something that doesn't even feel like one to some players.

Here's what I don't get. You've effectively stated that Square-Enix themselves didn't design it to be an RPG, shouldn't that be the end of the debate? Why did you feel the need to make that next statement? Isn't that a sort of kick it while it's not even participating statement?

I just find it strange that even Square Enix wants to bring Final Fantasy XIII away from being considered an RPG... when there are twelve games before it with most at the top of the RPG game. It's weird!

 

[Warped_Ghost]

I'm a fan of Bioware, but aren't they also the people who are refusing to address homosexuality in Mass Effect 2 because they consider it like a PG-13 action movie?

Yes but Bioware isn't agaisnt homosexuality. Dragon age is a token of proof for that.

 

[Sir Prize]

Well, it is a little hard for Bioware to say that it's not an RPG because it IS a JRPG, though personally I'd like someone to find a better word for these games because they are not RPGs in the tradiational sense, or at least that's the case with the FF series. You play as a character and the story is pretty much all set up, with few real game changing choices and little in the way character creation. Their more of a story focused turn based stagery game, or in some cases action, with no real role playing because it's not the player playing the role, there's no real feel that any of the characters are you.

In all honesty I'm not a fan of Final Fantasy so I am already baised towards Bioware, because I like their products. Their games actually feel like RPGs and have decent stories, good characters and combat, with is more than can be said for the latest FF games. I can't say I would call the ff series RPGs anymore, not even in the J sense. A game like the Shin Megami Tensei series is a better example of a JRPG. You make choices that really affact the story and have some choice of what kind of party you have.

To sum up FF is no longer an RPG, I agree with Bioware, but I am baised and I can see that there are two sides to this coin. It all depends on what you class as an RPG.

 

[Danpascooch]

I'll start taking anything BioWare has to say on their alleged definition of roleplaying seriously once they stop this asinine nonsense about Shepard being a predefined character.
Hypocrisy much?

No, you can make him whatever you want, he just has a predefined LAST NAME, that's hardly the same as having a game like Final Fantasy 13, where you literally walk down straight linear paths for hours at a time, I felt like I was playing an old 2d sonic game for god's sake.

No, see; with predefined, a term coined by Ray Myzuka, BioWare mean to say that Shepard has a fundamental persona which the player is unable to affect. They've especially used that little nugget to dodge questions about the lack of same sex romances.
It's all a load of tripe anyway. They don't believe it themselves. Chris Priestly even said recently on the BioBoards that Shepard is "completely unique to each individual playthrough".
That's the hypocrisy I was referring to.

You see, the problem with giving too much branching in a game, is that length and quality suffer, they can develop one linear branch of very high quality, or use the same amount of development time to make ten branching possibilities and spend 1/10 of the time on each.

RPG's have always had to balance that, how to give you possibilities, but not spread development time on any respective path too thin because of it. You're pretty much asking for the moon by asking for a character that is 100% yours, and still expect every possibility to be of the quality Bioware games are now, all I'm asking if for the ability to go where I want, explore a few towns and places, and have some damn sidequests that aren't restricted to the last 10% of the storyline path!

Also, it helps when you don't feel like everything you're doing is hopelessly futile because you have the equivalent of a terminal illness until the gameplay ends. (not that that's related to being an RPG)

 

[Danpascooch]

I'm a fan of Bioware, but aren't they also the people who are refusing to address homosexuality in Mass Effect 2 because they consider it like a PG-13 action movie?

Bioware has been much better than most developers about homosexuality, the only reason you see people freaking out about this and not about other developers that don't offer it, is because some of Bioware's games DO offer it.

They aren't perfect, but they're better than most, and don't deserve the crap they're getting.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

Does it have stats and leveling as a focus in combat? Then it's an RPG.

Unless he's also saying that stuff like Diablo and MMORPGs aren't RPGs?

Besides, when the genre was named, anything with dialogue and a plot above "Eat Dots" was pretty much an RPG.

I'd say you found the elements that contribute to an RPG, but do not define it. There are still other aspects that must be present to make it an RPG. Like a narrative, and the characters who start from some simple origin as beet farmers and rise to all-powerful badass status as an effect of their surroundings and circumstances. If it's a hero who was always doomed to be the hero, then it's an adventure with RPG elements. And while one can argue Diablo's merit as an RPG, there are quite a few MMORPG's that have about as much in common with an RPG as a book has with a tree. Sure, they might have some of the same elements, but that alone does not make them identical.