Really? I feel like I spent way more time on the Eden Raid then ten hours, though that might have been because the circle corridors were driving me mad.danpascooch said:
BioWare: Final Fantasy XIII is Not an RPG
- Thread starter Tom Goldman
- Start date
Yes, but that was then, and this is now, and now the franchise isn't really an RPG anymore, and hasn't actually for some time now... Also no I wouldn't necessarily call Diablo an RPG, certainly not in the way I would Dragon Age: Origins.Onyx Oblivion said:
And Sqaure Enix doesn't rip massively from Western sources (namely space operas, and, well, angsty as hell versions of far-future military dictatorship nightmares like Starship Troopers)? At least Bioware handles what sources they use (namely space operas [again] and Lord of the Rings) well, like for instance not filling them full of J-Pop artists and whiny cunts... and terrible gameplay. What I am saying is that everyone is going to use something else as inspiration, and that doing it differently isn't always the same as doing it well. It would be different if I went to school wearing a garbage bag as pants, but that wouldn't do anything but get me put in a mental hospital.s69-5 said:
ONCE AGAIN another fail at context. Bioware BLASTING JRPGS OMG! BREAK OUT THE PAPPARAZI!s69-5 said:
Really, I have to post this goddamn link, maybe then you'll understand how idiotic your reaction was and maybe you'll understand that the answer had to be given within the context of the question. And if the question is set up to make you look like a controvesy stirring jackass, then that's what people can be manipulated into seeing you as.
Just start watching from 5:00 onwards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N98ATG7J7mc
The people who made the game say it isn't really an RPG, so where's the issue?
That statement never made sense, it was out of place with the first game for one thing.LiquidGrape said:
*cough
Pot. Kettle. Black. Bioware this is the second time I've seen you call out the JRPG for not being an "RPG". You who made that stealth JRPG Mass Effect 2. You who only really gives the player a choice between being Lawful Stupid, Chaotic Stupid, and maybe, just maybe, True Neutral. You whose storytelling is entirely linear no matter what choices the player makes, especially in your most recent installments.
Bioware, you make unimaginative generic LOTR clones. Dragon Age: Origins is quite possibly the worst offender I've seen in a while, especially when it rips off cut scenes wholesale from the LOTR trilogy.
I consider the games that come from Bethesda, Black Isle, and Obsidian to be RPGs. Why? Because I can play through a game like Fallout 3 or KoTOR II with the same character build making minor changes in my choices and it'll still feel like a completely different experience. Bioware, when I play renegade or paragon I feel like I'm in the same game. It's even worse when I make a choice and get the exact same dialogue I would have received if I'd made that other choice. It's like playing through an interactive graphic novel or a choose your own adventure story that gives me 2 paths instead of six. So, remind me Bioware, how are you different from the JRPG again?
Pot. Kettle. Black. Bioware this is the second time I've seen you call out the JRPG for not being an "RPG". You who made that stealth JRPG Mass Effect 2. You who only really gives the player a choice between being Lawful Stupid, Chaotic Stupid, and maybe, just maybe, True Neutral. You whose storytelling is entirely linear no matter what choices the player makes, especially in your most recent installments.
Bioware, you make unimaginative generic LOTR clones. Dragon Age: Origins is quite possibly the worst offender I've seen in a while, especially when it rips off cut scenes wholesale from the LOTR trilogy.
I consider the games that come from Bethesda, Black Isle, and Obsidian to be RPGs. Why? Because I can play through a game like Fallout 3 or KoTOR II with the same character build making minor changes in my choices and it'll still feel like a completely different experience. Bioware, when I play renegade or paragon I feel like I'm in the same game. It's even worse when I make a choice and get the exact same dialogue I would have received if I'd made that other choice. It's like playing through an interactive graphic novel or a choose your own adventure story that gives me 2 paths instead of six. So, remind me Bioware, how are you different from the JRPG again?
Dragon Age: Origins is a LOTR clone in the same sense that LOTR is a clone of old mythology.
I'd elaborate further, but really. Why bother? You're one of those hip indie trendsters that'll just block out everything that's said to prove how moronic your final question was. Short answer? JRPGs give zero player agency, Bioware gives some player agency and the games you listed give far more agency, but at the expense of polish and mechanics within the RPG, where Bioware excels in my book from any of the examples you have listed.
Now go ahead and block out everything I just wrote.
I'd elaborate further, but really. Why bother? You're one of those hip indie trendsters that'll just block out everything that's said to prove how moronic your final question was. Short answer? JRPGs give zero player agency, Bioware gives some player agency and the games you listed give far more agency, but at the expense of polish and mechanics within the RPG, where Bioware excels in my book from any of the examples you have listed.
Now go ahead and block out everything I just wrote.
In Tony Hawk games, you make your character (and design more than just the face), you live your character, and you make choices (tricks, specials, etc). So does that mean Tony Hawk games are RPGs now?Tom Goldman said:
The only Final Fantasy you ever created a character in was the first.
All Final Fantasy games are linear just like all Bioware games are linear. Period. Just because I can walk around in a big open world doesn't mean shit.
To note: The only two Final Fantasies I like are FFT and FF9. Definately not a fan boy of the series.
All Final Fantasy games are linear just like all Bioware games are linear. Period. Just because I can walk around in a big open world doesn't mean shit.
To note: The only two Final Fantasies I like are FFT and FF9. Definately not a fan boy of the series.
Keep in mind Bioware that RPGs at one point weren'tabout "living" or creating a character, they were just about you playing as someone who got progressively stronger maybe with some customization and that is what FFXIII is. Even if this ass thinks otherwise, he can't change what RPGs generally are.
Err... I have a feeling that you meant to reply to nightwolf667 in this comment, if you wanted to do that you probably should've hit the "quote" button. It's a weird system, I know, it took me a while to figure it out. Oh yeah, and I agree with you.Loonerinoes said:
No, but I think the point was that such things are prerequisite to a game being an RPG, but games that have them aren't necessarily. It's like how an open world is something that is prerequisite to a Grand Theft Auto game, but Fallout 3 isn't a Grand Theft Auto game.Assassin Xaero said:
Oi, look to Pneuma08. (one of the guys who posted on this thread on this page).SinisterSpade|LH| said:
Can you name a game where you do not play a role? Such a definition is so woefully generic to the point of absurdity.Optimus Hagrid said:
Erickson obviously comes from the school of thought that "Role Playing" means you define the role that you play in the game, a very western school taken straight from Dungeons and Dragons (not necessarily with stats over time, but more specifically narrative and initial choices). The Japanese school of thought does not have this focus and instead puts more emphasis on....well, it's hard to say. Stats-based combat? Narrative? Items and equipment? Although nowadays even most JRPGs give you some leeway into character customization.
I think it's kind of unfortunate that the early games of this sort were categorized as "Role Playing"; like the old Lucasarts-style "Adventure" genre, its moniker just doesn't quite fit what it ought to be describing.
I agree with him fully. Except that I strongly dislike RPG's and love FF "adventure" games. But I've always agreed that the later Final Fantasy games are anything but real RPG's.
I luuurve myself some Bioware, but their spokespeople have a tendency to trash talk stuff that they're really not in much of a position to trash talk.
Seriously, even Yahtzee understands the problem: The term "RPG" has become thoroughly bastardized ever since it became used to classify games. The thing that made D&D an RPG wasn't the spreadsheet rule system, it was the fact that you could create your own character and experience.
Video game RPGs are only called that because they preserve the spreadsheet mechanics, not that little thing called "roleplaying," which they didn't carry over into the translation. Now, this wasn't an option at the time, because of hardware limitations. You couldn't create a nonlinear storyline with the hardware available (and IMNSHO, you still can't really create a nonlinear storyline with the hardware we've got NOW, but more on that in a bit).
My point is, while I hate to parrot Yahtzee, I too think that we should just drop the "RPG" classification. The FF series aren't TRYING to be "role-playing" games, and they shouldn't be held to the standards of a genre they're not even trying to be in. I don't play Half-Life and complain that it's not enough like Pokémon.
(now, as to my other point: Sorry, but you just can't create a truly open-ended experience on a computer, the fundamental constraints create limits. Fallout came close, and some interesting things have been done with procedural generation, but really, there's just no comparison to creating your own storylines with other human beings. But that's not really the issue here)
1. There are only two types of RPGs: Japanese RPGs and RPGs not from Japan ("Western" RPGs).
2. The only JRPGs that exist are Final Fantasy VII, VIII, IX, X, XII and XIII, and Star Ocean TtEoT and tLH.
Seriously, even Yahtzee understands the problem: The term "RPG" has become thoroughly bastardized ever since it became used to classify games. The thing that made D&D an RPG wasn't the spreadsheet rule system, it was the fact that you could create your own character and experience.
Video game RPGs are only called that because they preserve the spreadsheet mechanics, not that little thing called "roleplaying," which they didn't carry over into the translation. Now, this wasn't an option at the time, because of hardware limitations. You couldn't create a nonlinear storyline with the hardware available (and IMNSHO, you still can't really create a nonlinear storyline with the hardware we've got NOW, but more on that in a bit).
My point is, while I hate to parrot Yahtzee, I too think that we should just drop the "RPG" classification. The FF series aren't TRYING to be "role-playing" games, and they shouldn't be held to the standards of a genre they're not even trying to be in. I don't play Half-Life and complain that it's not enough like Pokémon.
(now, as to my other point: Sorry, but you just can't create a truly open-ended experience on a computer, the fundamental constraints create limits. Fallout came close, and some interesting things have been done with procedural generation, but really, there's just no comparison to creating your own storylines with other human beings. But that's not really the issue here)
Ah, Calumon, you still haven't yet learned the rules of The Escapist:Jack and Calumon said:
1. There are only two types of RPGs: Japanese RPGs and RPGs not from Japan ("Western" RPGs).
2. The only JRPGs that exist are Final Fantasy VII, VIII, IX, X, XII and XIII, and Star Ocean TtEoT and tLH.
I got to agree with this, the only reason it was called an RPG is because it has Final Fantasy in the name.Lord_Gremlin said: