Black Ops Swastika Emblems Will Earn Xbox Live Ban

[Wow they sure are generous with the usernames]

And why wouldn't the fact that Genocides A and B killed four times more people than those killed by Genocide C not have a diluting effect on the fact the "x" number of people were killed by Genocide C? I'm no mathematician but, in my book, "x times 4" beats the pants offa "x."

Because that's not how society views the images that are related to Genocides A and B.

But Atmos Duality's argument doesn't in any way implicate a symbol or image of any sort. As I understand the argument being made (i.e., the fact that more people were killed in some genocide other than the Jewish Holocaust has no effect on how the Jewish Holocaust should be viewed) the whole swastika issue -- or any other symbol or image for that matter -- plays no role.

Well he is right in that it doesn't make the Jewish holocaust any less devastating or terrible. But the fact is that at the end of the day genocide C was horrific and genocide A and B were even worse.

I could be wrong, but I'm willing to bet that it's the public (emphasis on "public") display of the swastika that's banned in Germany. And I would assume that its display in an online game doesn't qualify as a public display (unless you're monitoring your game play on a gigantic Jumbotron screen set up outdoors for all to see).

It does ban the public use of it but it also bans the distribution of the symbol, which would put Treyarch in a bit of trouble.

(1) Whoever:
1. domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writings (§ 11 subsection (3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organizations indicated in § 86 subsection (1), nos. 1, 2 and 4; or
2. produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1,
shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_§_86a

I could be wrong, but I don't think "distribute" as used in the statute has the meaning which you're attempting to impart to it.

The law was written in regards to physical copies of the image, but if player X has swastika image and that image is viewed by many other people by the means of BLOPS multiplayer, it can be argued that Treyarch is distributing swastikas.

 

[-Samurai-]

Stupid Nazis. Why did you have to ruin the swastika for everyone else?

They didn't. The people that refuse to see it as anything other than a Nazi symbol ruin it for everyone else.

I hope everyone here realizes that the Nazi use a different swastika than the Hindus and Buddhists. The Nazi swastika is tiled at a 45 degree angle and backwards. If you portray a Nazi swastika there can't be any argument that it is the Buddhist symbol for peace...they look and mean completely different things.

The Buddhist one is backwards. The Hindu one isn't.

You're giving Microsoft(or Treyarch, whichever is enforcing the rule) too much credit by assuming they'll know the difference between a Swastika that is rotated for the Nazi Party, or one that isn't for one of the many other meanings.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Also, which brand of instant noodle? Is it delicious?

4th Reich Noodle Co- WAITAGODDAMNEDMINUTE!

 

[vLibertineJediv]

So a horse having his dick cut off with a chainsaw is ok but a swastika is banned.


Power tripping bastards.

I'd like to see that

 

[Wow they sure are generous with the usernames]

But there are swastikas IN THE GAME. In the Nazi Zombies game mode. So why can't there be a swastika as your emblem?

Because the swastika isn't itself the issue, it's the use of it as a personal emblem to make a statement about yourself. It's like getting a short quote with your person and writing "KILL ALL JEWS"

Or like writing "I like playing german".

Or "Waffen SS".

See, I can turn around meanings too!

Yeah okay buddy, hang a swastika out your window in pretty much any western country and let's see how many people take that as "I like germany"

 

[DominicxD]

I tried to type a long post about how fucking stupid this is but I gave up after about 4 lines.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[PinochetIsMyBro]

Sigh, I guess I'll have to stick to the celtic and iron crosses then.

As a side note, I've seen plenty of guys with names that involve some sort of anti-jewish/white/black/mexican/etc sentiment. They just word them oddly and get away with it. Microsoft really doesn't look at these things unless people report them.

As long as you never talk over the mic/or upset people, you can run around with the most offensive name known to man and you'll likely never get caught.

 

[JDKJ]

Am not a big fan of the "Jewish extermination" but the swastika should not be banned, even if drawing attention to the event was precisely the intention of the user. Despite what the MS guy says, it is political correctness.

Even though Microsoft are being massive dickheads here, it's not a surprise that they did this.

The swastika is an image that is banned in certain countries (e.g. Germany). People from Germany play the same online game that everyone else does, so they have to moderate their emblems to exclude banned images.

I could be wrong, but I'm willing to bet that it's the public (emphasis on "public") display of the swastika that's banned in Germany. And I would assume that its display in an online game doesn't qualify as a public display (unless you're monitoring your game play on a gigantic Jumbotron screen set up outdoors for all to see).

Nazism is illegal in Germany. This would be instantly banned in Germany and without argument.

Scroll up and read the statute which has been provided verbatim. You can easily see, I hope, where it is only the public (emphasis on "public") display of certain symbols that are prohibited by German law. If I want to hang a swastika on my apartment wall in Germany where no one but I can see it, then that's not a public display and therefore isn't prohibited by German law.

 

[elvor0]

Stupid Nazis. Why did you have to ruin the swastika for everyone else?

They didn't. The people that refuse to see it as anything other than a Nazi symbol ruin it for everyone else.

you must be an insensative bastard

I'm insensitive because I don't see the Swastika as a purely Nazi symbol, and instead see it as an ancient symbol with many different meanings and origins?

I guess the citizens of Samara in 4000BC were also insensitive for using it on their pottery?

The countless Asian countries with many varied religions are insensitive for using under their own meanings?

And, as I already pointed out, the Finnish Air Force are insensitive because they still use it on their flag.

Right.

Because most people are going to assosiate it with that, right? Lets be honest here, almost all people primaraly associate the schwasticka with Nazi-ism, genocide and what not. Also aside from the finish flag (which I highly doubt most people are aware of, myself included) the symbol Samaraians (who totally knew about the Nazi's) and asian relgions use is not the same symbol, therefor banning the schwasticka is perfectly reasonable, as it isnt the same symbol as the one Bhuddism uses.

 

[Nautical Honors Society]

Am not a big fan of the "Jewish extermination" but the swastika should not be banned, even if drawing attention to the event was precisely the intention of the user. Despite what the MS guy says, it is political correctness.

Even though Microsoft are being massive dickheads here, it's not a surprise that they did this.

The swastika is an image that is banned in certain countries (e.g. Germany). People from Germany play the same online game that everyone else does, so they have to moderate their emblems to exclude banned images.

I could be wrong, but I'm willing to bet that it's the public (emphasis on "public") display of the swastika that's banned in Germany. And I would assume that its display in an online game doesn't qualify as a public display (unless you're monitoring your game play on a gigantic Jumbotron screen set up outdoors for all to see).

Nazism is illegal in Germany. This would be instantly banned in Germany and without argument.

Scroll up and read the statute which has been provided verbatim. You can easily see, I hope, where it is only the public (emphasis on "public") display of certain symbols that are prohibited by German law. If I want to hang a swastika on my apartment wall in Germany where no one but I can see it, then that's not a public display and therefore isn't prohibited by German law.

Yes but at the same time if you were organizing groups of Nazi sympathizers in your home to discuss the best ways to hate over tea and crumpets that would be illegal by German law. Nazi's are not allowed to organize in Germany. Even in private.

 

[katsumoto03]

Damn Nazis. It's such a cool symbol...

They also used the coolest uniforms.

OT: Yeah, ban them. If they actually think they're being clever, they're not mature enough to play the game. Or have I forgotten what the 'M' rating stands for?

 

[JDKJ]

And why wouldn't the fact that Genocides A and B killed four times more people than those killed by Genocide C not have a diluting effect on the fact the "x" number of people were killed by Genocide C? I'm no mathematician but, in my book, "x times 4" beats the pants offa "x."

Because that's not how society views the images that are related to Genocides A and B.

But Atmos Duality's argument doesn't in any way implicate a symbol or image of any sort. As I understand the argument being made (i.e., the fact that more people were killed in some genocide other than the Jewish Holocaust has no effect on how the Jewish Holocaust should be viewed) the whole swastika issue -- or any other symbol or image for that matter -- plays no role.

Well he is right in that it doesn't make the Jewish holocaust any less devastating or terrible. But the fact is that at the end of the day genocide C was horrific and genocide A and B were even worse.

I could be wrong, but I'm willing to bet that it's the public (emphasis on "public") display of the swastika that's banned in Germany. And I would assume that its display in an online game doesn't qualify as a public display (unless you're monitoring your game play on a gigantic Jumbotron screen set up outdoors for all to see).

It does ban the public use of it but it also bans the distribution of the symbol, which would put Treyarch in a bit of trouble.

(1) Whoever:
1. domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writings (§ 11 subsection (3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organizations indicated in § 86 subsection (1), nos. 1, 2 and 4; or
2. produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1,
shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_§_86a

I could be wrong, but I don't think "distribute" as used in the statute has the meaning which you're attempting to impart to it.

The law was written in regards to physical copies of the image, but if player X has swastika image and that image is viewed by many other people by the means of BLOPS multiplayer, it can be argued that Treyarch is distributing swastikas.

It can also be argued that the Earth is flat. But it's nevertheless a silly argument to make.

 

[randomsix]

This is kind of pointless considering the hate that gets spewed in the multiplayer anyway, isn't it? Sounds like they're just playing politics.

 

[jamradar]

Now all thats left to do is ban everyone who uses a dick as their emblem.

 

[Lem0nade Inlay]

What a fucking douche.
"Toulouse feels that most people will look at the swastika and think about Nazis and the genocide the party committed in World War II"

What the fuck? When I play a WORLD WAR II GAME I THINK ABOUT NAZIS. When I fight Germans in Black Ops I think about Nazi's. The whole concept of war makes me think about Nazi's and genocide!

 

[Olorune]

Finally. I'm sick of finding G11's with Tiger paint and swastikas on the side. We all know the symbol has alternative meanings (some good), but we all know that people aren't putting the swastika on their weapons for the meanings that are good.

 

[Wow they sure are generous with the usernames]

It can also be argued that the Earth is flat. But it's nevertheless a silly argument to make.

Imagine I run a magazine in Germany. Every month I have a "Letters to the Editor" section, where people can submit letters. I also decide to allow people to submit an image to accompany their letter. Their profile picture, as it were. Now imagine someone sent one of a swastika. I would either A. Not run the image or B. Get in serious legal trouble with the law for distributing the swastika.

 

[-Samurai-]

Stupid Nazis. Why did you have to ruin the swastika for everyone else?

They didn't. The people that refuse to see it as anything other than a Nazi symbol ruin it for everyone else.

you must be an insensative bastard

I'm insensitive because I don't see the Swastika as a purely Nazi symbol, and instead see it as an ancient symbol with many different meanings and origins?

I guess the citizens of Samara in 4000BC were also insensitive for using it on their pottery?

The countless Asian countries with many varied religions are insensitive for using under their own meanings?

And, as I already pointed out, the Finnish Air Force are insensitive because they still use it on their flag.

Right.

Because most people are going to assosiate it with that, right? Lets be honest here, almost all people primaraly associate the schwasticka with Nazi-ism, genocide and what not. Also aside from the finish flag (which I highly doubt most people are aware of, myself included) the symbol Samaraians (who totally knew about the Nazi's) and asian relgions use is not the same symbol, therefor banning the schwasticka is perfectly reasonable, as it isnt the same symbol as the one Bhuddism uses.

The ones in Asia are the exact same thing. The Nazi one was rotated 45 whole degrees. That's where the problem is. Rotated 45 degrees, it's an offensive symbol. But do you think the enforcers of this ban will think about that? No, they won't. It won't matter if you're a neo Nazi or a Finnish Air Force member showing your pride. You're banned, and that's wrong.

The Buddhist swastika is backwards, yes, but the Hindu one is simply a Swastika that isn't rotated.

If they want to do things right, ban the ones at a 45 degree angle, and leave the rest alone. Or better yet, make people read what the thing stands before they rage about something they don't understand.

 

[JDKJ]

Am not a big fan of the "Jewish extermination" but the swastika should not be banned, even if drawing attention to the event was precisely the intention of the user. Despite what the MS guy says, it is political correctness.

Even though Microsoft are being massive dickheads here, it's not a surprise that they did this.

The swastika is an image that is banned in certain countries (e.g. Germany). People from Germany play the same online game that everyone else does, so they have to moderate their emblems to exclude banned images.

I could be wrong, but I'm willing to bet that it's the public (emphasis on "public") display of the swastika that's banned in Germany. And I would assume that its display in an online game doesn't qualify as a public display (unless you're monitoring your game play on a gigantic Jumbotron screen set up outdoors for all to see).

Nazism is illegal in Germany. This would be instantly banned in Germany and without argument.

Scroll up and read the statute which has been provided verbatim. You can easily see, I hope, where it is only the public (emphasis on "public") display of certain symbols that are prohibited by German law. If I want to hang a swastika on my apartment wall in Germany where no one but I can see it, then that's not a public display and therefore isn't prohibited by German law.

Yes but at the same time if you were organizing groups of Nazi sympathizers in your home to discuss the best ways to hate over tea and crumpets that would be illegal by German law. Nazi's are not allowed to organize in Germany. Even in private.

No one's been discussing organizing a modern-day chapter of the Hitler Youth in Germany. We're discussing the ability to use a swastika as a user-created insignia in an online game in Germany and whether that runs afoul of German law. And, from my reading and understanding of the relevant law (and, I would argue, any reasonable construction thereof) it appears that to do so doesn't run afoul of the law.

 

[GLo Jones]

I guess this is a good thing, as long as it isn't simply restricted to the swastika, and is clearly stated for all to see.