Blaming the victim

FinalHeart95

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Jun 29, 2009
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I fail to see how you can blame scandalous clothing for rape. It's ridiculous. I remember seeing something that rape is more about power than sexual arousal anyway.

Now, sneaking a peak at some cleavage could be partially pinned on the girl with it all hanging out. But sneaking a peak is a bit different than raping the gal.
 

SilentCom

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Mar 14, 2011
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It's not the victim's fault for being raped. The only problem about a rape victim having dressed provocatively is that they probably could have seen it coming, especially if they go through bad neighborhoods (or abandoned mobile home parks).

It's sort of comparable to walking through a bad neighborhood dressed with nice clothing and your expensive tech items out. It's not their fault if they get mugged, but they make themselves into a target and should have had reason enough not to do so from the beginning.
 

Lawyer105

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Apr 15, 2009
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Cyberwulf said:
The percentage of genuine, proven false rape reports is somewhere between 2 and 8 percent - on a par with the rate of false reports for every other crime. MEN NEED TO STOP RAPING.
Firstly - At no point did I ever suggest that rape is in any way legitimate. Get over yourself.

Secondly - It's not the proven false ones I'm worried about... it's the number of ones where an innocent dude is found guilty incorrectly that concerns me...

Thirdly - An accusation of rape (even if subsequently proved false) can ruin a dudes life forever. And we don't see anybody leaping up and down screaming about how unfair that is, do we? So I'm not as sympathetic as I could be for this.

Finally - Link, or 92% of people won't believe your statistics.
 

kortin

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Mar 18, 2011
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Fagotto said:
kortin said:
I believe that any problem or anything in the world that is bad, has 2 people to blame, at the least. The victim and the attacker.
That's BS. Man X walks to work, Man Y comes up and mugs him. Well duh, it's Man X's fault for walking to work! He should have totally known better.
If he wasn't there, it wouldn't have happened, not to him at least. Its probably going to be unavoidable seeing as its probably a random crime and anyone could have been the victim. If no one was there at all, it wouldn't have happened. So, I believe that the fault lies in both of them.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

Queen of the Edit
Feb 4, 2009
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AlkalineGamer said:
Oh how very 'black and white'.

A person who would rape is probably a bad person anyway.
The last thing they need is to be provoked.
If you covored yourself in bacon, then got mauled by an animal, then alot of the blame does rest with you.
See this is why we can't have nice things ...

A person who commits rape, deciding that their sexual lusts should overwhelm any respect for the human being, isn't probably a bad person .... they are a bad person.

Your 'metaphor' is batshit insanity. For starters,

A; Sexual lusts are subjective.
B: That the provocation of passions is somehow wrong
C: The crimes (largely perpetrated by men... if you can call them human at all) are somehow intune with some natural force of the human psyche... when it is clearly aberrant.

A victim is a victim ... it's not a case of human looks tasty, bear is hungry, eats human ... it'sa case of human looks trendy, human tickles other human's passions, they decide to assail and rape the human.

A rapist ... a person that ambushes and assails another human to satisfy a twisted sense of lust and dominance over another... is a fucking monster.

Monsters deserve no sympathies and they certainly are beyond your pathetic justifications.
 

kortin

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Mar 18, 2011
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Fagotto said:
kortin said:
Fagotto said:
kortin said:
I believe that any problem or anything in the world that is bad, has 2 people to blame, at the least. The victim and the attacker.
That's BS. Man X walks to work, Man Y comes up and mugs him. Well duh, it's Man X's fault for walking to work! He should have totally known better.
If he wasn't there, it wouldn't have happened, not to him at least. Its probably going to be unavoidable seeing as its probably a random crime and anyone could have been the victim. If no one was there at all, it wouldn't have happened. So, I believe that the fault lies in both of them.
That does not make it his fault. He had no real reason not to do it. It's like saying a complete accident is someone's fault. It utterly ignores what fault is about.
Of course its not entirely on both of the people equally. The attacker is obviously the most at fault, but to put the blame entirely on him would be foolish. Every crime that has victims, will always have 2 people at fault.
 

Agayek

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Oct 23, 2008
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kortin said:
If he wasn't there, it wouldn't have happened, not to him at least. Its probably going to be unavoidable seeing as its probably a random crime and anyone could have been the victim. If no one was there at all, it wouldn't have happened. So, I believe that the fault lies in both of them.
That's somewhat fallacious reasoning, truth be told. "Someone was going to be mugged, therefore it's the fault of the guy who was mugged." There's no logical relation between the two.

Besides, you can live your entire life perfectly, but still happen to have your home selected for a robbery and then be shot. That's clearly no one's fault but the attacker.

I'm not saying the victim is never a contributor to their misfortunes, but most of the time it's just bad luck/timing.
 

Damien Granz

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Apr 8, 2011
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Juor said:
So there's been a fair amount of talk in the news lately about the issue of blaming the victim, especially in regards to rape cases. Some of this is due to the case of the 11 year old from Texas: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20042118-504083.html

Another thing that stoked the fires was the recent comment of a cop in Toronto saying "women should avoid dressing like sluts in order to not be victimized."

http://www.blogto.com/city/2011/04/slutwalk_toronto_takes_its_message_to_the_street_/
http://www.the33tv.com/news/kdaf-slut-walk-hits-dallas-streets-story,0,2823196.story

Personally I think that there is no reason EVER that someone should be sexually assaulted or raped. Because you find their clothing arousing or provocative, or they are very flirty due to over intoxication is not an excuse to ignore their rights as a human being, and this goes for both genders and every sexuality. Everyone should be able to dress how they feel comfortable without fear of personal harm.

So fellow Escapists, what are your thoughts on this whole issue? Do you think that there is too much victim blaming going on or that it really is the fault of women for wearing short-shorts or miniskirts?
Considering that pretty much all experts in the field have concluded that rape is not a crime of sex, it's a violent crime that uses sex as an attack vector, and it doesn't matter if the victim is male, female, gay, straight, young, old, etc. Rape is a violent crime of power and dominance so blaming the victim for wearing a miniskirt makes about as much sense as blaming a stabbing victim for not being unstabable.

Also, the idea that we should all dress in burkas and never see the light of day to appease a criminal is sickening.

Like if only we'd just give up on trying to lead honest lives, crime would just go away! That's pretty stupid to me.
 

Laser Priest

A Magpie Among Crows
Mar 24, 2011
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The victim may have influenced the attacker, but it certainly doesn't change the fact that the attacker failed at any semblance of restraint and took an idiotic action. The victim may be very, very slightly responsible, but it does nothing to subtract from the attacker's guilt.
 

Arizona Kyle

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Aug 25, 2010
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RedEyesBlackGamer said:
Trying to pin rape or sexual assault situations on the victim is fucking disgusting anyway you look at it. I don't care what you are wearing, it has no relevance to getting raped.
A 1995 survey of almost 2,000 American teenagers found that: (a) almost half felt that rape was sometimes the victim?s fault and (b) 40% agreed that girls who wear sexy clothes are asking to be raped (American Medical Association. Facts About Sexual Assault. Chicago, IL: American Medical Association, 1997)


There is a strong correlation between wearing revealing clothes and rape cases (Thornhill and Palmer, A Natural History of Rape)


While it is impossible to prove the causal relationship between wearing revealing clothes and rape, there is a strong likelihood that it is one of the contributing factors.

The facts are figures that merely represent the tip of the iceberg. Feel free to conduct your own research and prove me wrong.

The facts pretty much speak for themselves. Even though the factors that contribute to sexual assault vary greatly (society, upbringing, psychological state, socio-biology, etc), there is very little doubt that donning an indecent attire is one of them. While it is virtually impossible to determine exactly why people perpetrate these heinous crimes, we should stop engaging ourselves in the constant denial that sexy clothes do not contribute to the rise of sexual crimes at all.

Surely the point that no woman?s conduct grants a man the right to sexually assault her can be made without encouraging women to overlook the role they themselves may be playing in compromising their safety. This is not to say that provocatively-clothed women should be totally blamed, rather they should share part of the blame for enticing ?high-risk? potential perpetrators, and they should start admitting this fact.

And just because there are elder women and children involved does not mean that we should ignore the much bigger picture. It is like saying that carrying a lot of money on the city streets in plain sight does not at all entice potential criminals to commit robbery, since there are people who keep their money in the bank that are nevertheless robbed. The former can even be committed by an average junkie craving for the next ?fix?, while the latter is usually perpetrated by professional robbers who plan for days on end before executing it. Likewise, there are different types of rapists with different fetishes and target victims. So why confuse the two?

Another fallacy is the notion that being able to wear sexy clothes liberates women from the shackles of gender inequality and the delusions under which they operate. Conservative Islamic societies are often blamed for ?subjugating women? and denying them of their basic human rights. I cannot help but wonder whether the gender equality issues often cited by some parties include the freedom to compromise their safety by putting on an indecent attire and behaving provocatively, and later on absolving themselves completely and unconditionally after they are sexually assaulted?

Does it also include being able to do all the things that men usually do, like playing physically aggressive contact sports, putting on a male attire and sporting a masculine hairstyle? Well then, if they really insist on having ?true gender equality?, why is it that divorced women paying for their ex-husbands?alimony stays a rarity? Why are men still expected to pay thousands of ringgit in dowry on their wedding day, when some wealthy women are more than capable of doing the same thing? Why then do women feel completely fine with men paying for dowry and alimony, and not so fine anymore when other things seem to side with men?

Men and women have different roles to play, and they are both equally vital to the development of a society. God created the gender differences so that we can complement and learn from each other, not to divide us and render one gender superior to the other. We should value and celebrate the differences between us and not create unnecessary and counter-productive issues out of them.

before i'm label as a sexist, please let me explain. i'm not saying guys can't control themselves and that everytime they see some skin that they go "OH MY GOD!!! LET'S RAPE!!! XD

but it is a fact however that seeing sexily dressed women stirs a reaction in them. Come on guys, be frankly honest, just what sort of thoughts enter your mind when u see a really scantily-clad woman? i hardly doubt that your thinking, "oh wow, that SO makes me wanna read a book?"

the difference is, guys like you and me have self control, we don't go act out what we are thinking cause we understand that it's wrong; either that or we haven't got the guts, lol i of course am going with the latter =P
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

Queen of the Edit
Feb 4, 2009
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Jodah said:
Theres a difference between blaming the victim afterwards and giving advice as to ways of avoiding it. Nobody should ever be raped but it will happen. To me the officer is just giving tips on how to minimize the risk. Whether those tips are the best or not is a different area of discussion.

Better yet ... why don't we mandate that all people can only wear clothes from an approved booklet? The world would be so much better if all girls dressed like nuns without a single hint of their physical presence ... Christ.

Looking over the forum posts am I the only one who realises the irony that rather than actively fighting the problem bt coming down hard on the perpetrator, freedom of expression must not only 'take one for the team' ... but by it's own capacity be reduced to accomodate more monstrous individuals that do not deserve to be walking around and are probably going to commit sexual abuse anyways?

A police officer's duty is to uphold the law, be a shield for the people, to act in their best conscience and protect them at the cost of self. Not to act like the fucking morality gestapo of the Middle East
 

Agayek

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Oct 23, 2008
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BreakfastMan said:
QFT. I just do not understand the mentality behind this type of stuff. To me, it makes no sense. The victim is never to blame for the crimes committed against them. Ever.
The victim is never to blame.

Unless they do something mindnumbingly stupid.

You don't walk through the ghetto of Detroit in a nice suit and gold Rolex, for perfectly valid reasons. If you got mugged in such a situation, it's at least partially your fault for being stupid. The same is also true in some rape cases (the ones I'm referring to are not the overly violent cases, but more along the lines of date rape, etc). Granted, any situation where someone runs up, throws their victim to the ground and ravishes them is 100% completely and totally the fault of the attacker, regardless of what anyone else says.

If a woman lets a man get her drunk to the point of passing out, goes home with a stranger, or any of a number similarly stupid moves, then she's at least partially to blame for whatever will happen.

I'm not saying that the attacker is in any way justified (personally, I'd like to kill them myself), just that there are some instances where the victim is at least partially at fault. These are almost always the situations wherein the victim could have done something to prevent it. For example, refusing any more drinks or being with friends to prevent a complete clusterfuck.
 

Agayek

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Oct 23, 2008
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PaulH said:
Better yet ... why don't we mandate that all people can only wear clothes from an approved booklet? The world would be so much better if all girls dressed like nuns without a single hint of their physical presence ... Christ.

Looking over the forum posts am I the only one who realises the irony that rather than actively fighting the problem bt coming down hard on the perpetrator freedom of expression must 'take one for the team'?

A police officer's duty is to uphold the law, be a shield for the people, to act in their best conscience and protect them at the cost of self. Not to act like the fucking morality gestapo of the Middle East
Know what would be a lovely place to live? Somewhere we can do whatever we please, without consequence or thought.

Unfortunately, we live in the real world. As such, there are certain things we need to accept. One of these is that some people cannot be trusted. Only an idiot willingly makes themselves a target for such people.

That cop may as well have been saying "Don't flash rolls of $100 bills at people in the ghetto". It's the exact same concept. His wording probably could have been better, but the idea is to employ some common sense, because like it or not we have to live with the fact that the world isn't perfect.

If you can exercise some level of logic, you'll be fine, no matter how you dress or act, but if you make yourself a tempting target in a vulnerable position, a large portion of the human race will take advantage of that.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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Feb 20, 2011
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Just to counter balance what I am about to say I will clarify that their are no people more disgusting than those who will blame their sick twisted attitudes towards women on somebody else's fashion sense! However...

The laws that surround what actually constitutes rape are very convoluted and not very fair. I have a family friend (nicest man you'll ever meet btw) who has been to prison for 5 years for rape. The details are that his wife (who was having an affair and looking for a way out of their marriage behind his back at the time) gave him oral one night. She later claimed in court that for 5 seconds (yes, 5 fucking seconds) of the act that it wasn't consenting.

And he went to prison...
for 5 years...
WTF!