not really, at all. It's more saying maybe if you'd done something different this could have been avoided. no where did they say that what happened was right, just why it happened.chowderface said:
Blaming the victim
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She gave no indication he'd done anything to deserve the rape claim aside from the fact they had dated and broke up after a couple of years. It was the way she said it too: I COULD get him charged with rape, rather than I SHOULD get him charged with rape, or other girls need to be protected (or something like that). She really just wanted revenge because the relationship didn't go well.NinjaDeathSlap said:
In the case of rohypnol no, but I believe is someone goes out, gets completely wasted, they should be held responsible for their actions. But if someone slips something into their drink, hell no.cobra_ky said:
Well it's like the law that says if a robber breaks into your house and cuts himself on a knife you had left lying around, he can sue you for injury.RT-Medic-with-shotgun said:
Wow, I gotta say I'd be tempted to warn off any guys she might have lined up for the future if I were you.
Did you even bother reading this before you <a href=http://tailerag.blogspot.com/2009/08/there-is-discussion-between-me-and.html>copy and pasted it?Arizona Kyle said:
if you don't have anything original to contribute then stop wasting our time.
Yes, heterosexual men are often sexually attracted to women. What's your point?Arizona Kyle said:
Anyone lacking self-control to that degree has no place in a civilized free society. Guts have nothing to do it; forcing yourself onto a defenseless woman is pretty much the most gutless thing you could possibly do.Arizona Kyle said:
She already had another partner... and two girls (which she had gotten from her ex-boyfriend who she was claiming "raped" her). I feel bad for the girls if they're going to grow up believing they can get what they want through rape claims.NinjaDeathSlap said:
wow, I gotta say I'd be tempted to warn off any guys she may have got lined up for the future if I were you.Flare Phoenix said:
ok. so if get completely wasted and somebody steals my wallet, i should be held responsible for my actions? what if i pass out drunk and someone kidnaps me and steals my kidney? i'm just trying to get a handle on the ground rules here.Flare Phoenix said:
I agree with everything you said, with 2 exceptions:Spot1990 said:
1. Sexy clothes are designed to show off a woman's body. It is showing off their nice, ahem, "shit." (I apologize for the unfortunate wording, it made sense when I made that last post.)
2. Everyone is a potential mugger/rapist, unless you actually know them and trust them, and even then it is not 100%. We live in a dangerous world.
I am not saying women should not wear sexy clothing.
I am saying it is wise for women to take precautions to protect themselves from rape, at least until we live in a world where rapists don't exist.
Glad we agree on something. Even if it is only common sense.Agayek said:
And ... this is where similarities of opinions break down. No ... No .... No ... blame by common sense should not be the status quo, but one of the protection of ideals. There is no sharing of 'blame' ... someone put somthing in someone's drink ... sure someone should have known better, butyou're talking about someone who has merely done exactly as another from the above paragraph ...
With malicious aforethought and deliberate action has committed an atrocity.
Not only this but it is entirely culturally specific. Nobody, who goes to a pub watches every drink they drink ... if you're with a group of firends and someone yells "my shout!" you don't instantly refuse the beer because "oh, that drink left my sight so can't have that..."
Might be the 'common sense' (culturally mind you) thing to do, but it certainly isn't something you would do around your boss, and it's damn near rude to friends. You're still talking about a place where an aggressor with little regard for human dignity when met with a challenge for sexual conquest.
As opposed to fear and paranoia on the sake that you're likely to be called stupid by the first police officer that picks you up right? And bull fucking shit it's in anyway the victim's fault. You're describing as if "Oh, I failed to see that car speeding past that red light before making my turn ... I'm partially at fault" ...
Right, because ghettoization is a natural part of society. Heaven forbid if society and judicial services allowed for gentrification with the movement of people with money through poor neighbourhoods. That's kinda like opening up a store in a bad part of the city to promote jobs and then blaming the owner when it gets looted. And once again ... it's a purely social problem.
"You know you shouldn't have opened a store there ... you'll get no sympathies from us! You should have known better."
If people are actively mugging others then it requires social solutions ...
Besides, it's a moot point... it's nowhere comparable to mugging someone to feed themselves and a chronic psychological impairment that causes one to derive pleasure from sexually assaulting a person.
I call bullshit, a rapist is a rapist is a rapist. How a person dresses means as little to the reasons why they rape when compared to the profoundly foul and disgusting minds that allow them to do so without suicidal bouts of self-contempt that would afflict any sane, rational individual.
You're taking a mole hill (self expression) and turning it into a mountain (fuel for psychological instability) ... and the fact of the matter, as I said before, the places where women's sexual liberalization is most curtailed is the world's rape capitals by the very same people who espouse what you spout now.
Some links to bring to the discussion:
http://www.usu.edu/saavi/pdf/myths_facts.pdf
http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexualassault/rapestatistics.htm
http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~ad361896/anne/cease/rapestatisticspage.html
http://www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm
Many people here seem to have incorrect ideas about how rape occurs in America. The majority of rape cases will be by someone known by the victim. Also, there is little statistical evidence to show that dressing provocatively increase chances of rape in any form. The idea that some one 'dressing like a slut' in a bar is more likely to be raped doesn't hold to the reality of rape in America- it seems to imply that being more attractive makes you more likely to be raped. This is simply not true. Old women, little kids, unattractive women, incredibly hot women- they are all victims of rape, with many statistics saying that around 50% of all rapes occur to women under the age of 18.
Dressing provocatively doesn't increase rate chances, so saying that it's dumb to dress provocatively because it increase your chances to be raped is simply wrong. The analogy of going into a crime ridden area with a ton of money in your hands increasing your chances of being robbed (or any similar analogy) doesn't hold.
http://www.usu.edu/saavi/pdf/myths_facts.pdf
http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexualassault/rapestatistics.htm
http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~ad361896/anne/cease/rapestatisticspage.html
http://www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm
Many people here seem to have incorrect ideas about how rape occurs in America. The majority of rape cases will be by someone known by the victim. Also, there is little statistical evidence to show that dressing provocatively increase chances of rape in any form. The idea that some one 'dressing like a slut' in a bar is more likely to be raped doesn't hold to the reality of rape in America- it seems to imply that being more attractive makes you more likely to be raped. This is simply not true. Old women, little kids, unattractive women, incredibly hot women- they are all victims of rape, with many statistics saying that around 50% of all rapes occur to women under the age of 18.
Dressing provocatively doesn't increase rate chances, so saying that it's dumb to dress provocatively because it increase your chances to be raped is simply wrong. The analogy of going into a crime ridden area with a ton of money in your hands increasing your chances of being robbed (or any similar analogy) doesn't hold.
AlkalineGamer said:
I see the world very clearly now. Women who wear revealing clothing get raped, men who earn a lot of money get robbed, the way to a bear's heart is through bacon, people who bully others in school get shot, and someone who shoots someone else eventually wakes up to find themselves tied to the bed and slowly being flayed so they can be choked to death with a rope made from their own skin while they watch because why did you shoot me, Steve? why didn't you just put the gun down and walk away, Steve? just think, Steve, you could have prevented this if you hadjust walked away!RedEyesBlackGamer said:
So, to sum up, Women should dress like men, people should spread the wealth, bears should be given more bacon, kids shouldn't bully each other, everyone should shoot to kill, and bad guys and bears should never mix because then they would become our bear-cavalry overlords and it would all be Steve's fault. I'm so glad we agree!
Ok, OT: There are some common sense things. I'm against violence, theft, and rape as much as the next human being, but there are some things you should avoid regardless. I'm not talking about wearing less revealing clothing though, I'm talking things like 1. For the love of all that is holy, PLEASE, have the common sense to travel in groups if you're in ANY way not confident of your safety. 2. Dark alleys with little access to the outside world = not safe. 3. Just having a stungun or a knife or mace doesn't make you safe. Drill yourself over and over so you're prepared to use it without hesitation. If this is beyond your ability and you're absolutely dead set on breaking rule 1 and/or 2, then maybe you should invest in one of those anti-rape traps that latches onto an offender's member with barbs that require surgical removal and injects a combination hallucinogenic neuro-toxin and muscle relaxant so you can call the police and report them while they lie on the ground trapped in nightmares and unable to move (ok, that last one may be a little extreme). If you don't follow any of these rules and end up getting raped, then the rape itself is still not your fault, but those rules are common sense for other things too, like mugging, theft, and violent crime of other natures. The only other common sense then is to potential rapists, namely being DON'T if for no other reason than so that innocent men don't get castrated.
If you actually bothered to read my post, I said a completely wasted person is responsible for THEIR actions. Which means, if you get completely wasted and agree to have sex with someone in your wasted state, you shouldn't be allowed to sober up and claim it was rape just because you did something you regret.cobra_ky said:
As for if someone steals your wallet or kidney, you aren't responsible for them doing it, but you sure as hell are responsible for lowering your defenses and making yourself an easy target.
Well I'm from the UK so I don't know how similar state laws in the US are but I think the main problem isn't that the law is biased against men. The law is just badly thought out so there's room for smart and manipulative individuals to exploit it, and that juries are naturally biased against defendants with crimes of this magnitude.RT-Medic-with-shotgun said:
There really wasn't much more the judge could have done. The Jury had found him guilty of rape so he had to dole out a fitting punishment for rape no matter what he thought of the decision (under the circumstances the judge gave the softest sentence he could.) And don't worry she's not family, and I've said worse about her.
I'm sorry but I really don't want to go into any more detail. It's a very personal issue for him so I'm not sure if there is an article on it anywhere but I really don't want to direct people to it if there is, considering what he was convicted of even if it was a pile of shit. Suffice it to say it happened and it was a fucking sham but I really don't want to name names or places on the internet without him knowing about it.