Blizzard "Trying Not to Oversexualize" Female Overwatch Characters

Flammablezeus

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NiPah said:
Flammablezeus said:
Trying not to oversexualise? How about, I dunno, just don't do it? Seriously, it's just silly and always takes me out of the game completely. I haven't been able to take games that do this seriously since I was very young.
They do it because there's a larger market for people who like sexy characters then those who think it's silly.
But companies always like to test the waters so to say, maybe the market is changing a bit, I do hope this does well...
Not that I'll ever play it.
Is there any evidence for that? Or is it an assumption because so many popular games also happen to have oversexualised characters? I've enjoyed lots of games that do this, but I would definitely enjoy most of them a lot more if the characters were even remotely believable.

I used to just assume that a lot of devs have weird kinks and since the games sell well, they don't feel the need to stop doing it. Then again, in recent years I would attribute it more to publishers trying to cater to prepubescent children (I'm not using it as a derogatory term) like they've been doing with most aspects of recent games.
 

BX3

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That's cool I guess.

Seems like a weird thing to "try" to do, though. Just make a game full of character designs where sex appeal isn't blatantly the primary focus of it (unless that's the selling point ala DOA, in which case go nuts). If sexy happens, then it just happens. Doesn't seem like a huge thing to me.


Captcha: "Thank You"
Looks like the ad generators agree with me.
 

Ladylotus

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Jenvas1306 said:
Ive got a little look at overwatch and I like it.
I really despise the way all female League of Legends characters looks the same and have "sexy" as one of their primary attributes. I also dislike TF2 being a sausage fest.
I am however totally fine with characters being sexy, as long as it doesn't get into the way of their job and doesn't comprimise them being badass. (it also helps if its not just the women being focused on in such a way especially in promotional art)
Overwatch has an interesting looking rooster of characters.

TDLR: sexy is fine in the right place and the right amount.

But now I gotta see more of actual gameplay. after all: its a game.
To be fair, there is (or was) someone on the League team who was trying. Annie, Kayle, Diana, Tristana, and several others are fairly well done, without oversexualization.

And then there's characters like Janna, Caitlyn, or Cassiopeia, who have no reason for the way they are dressed.

That being said, I still dislike the fact that so many characters are oversexualized, and that female characters who aren't the 'normal' model are few and far between.
 

Erttheking

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The Lunatic said:
Fine with me.

Admittedly, it does feel a little forced. But, whatever, it's their artistic choice and all that.

I'd prefer less "Robots and brutish monsters are always male unless it's a spider." though.

However, I do wish them luck in convincing the professional victims and rampant complainers. I'm sure they'll find somebody to whine about.
Really? Having five female characters is "forced". The Buddhist robot, that's perfectly fine, the Asian man on a modern battlefield with a bow, nothing wrong with that, the intelligent glasses wearing gorilla from the moon, fits in perfectly naturally, but the female characters are "forced"?

Don't talk about rampant complainers or professional victims in the same post you declare the inclusion of female characters "forced".
 

The Lunatic

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erttheking said:
Really? Having five female characters is "forced". The Buddhist robot, that's perfectly fine, the Asian man on a modern battlefield with a bow, nothing wrong with that, the intelligent glasses wearing gorilla from the moon, fits in perfectly naturally, but the female characters are "forced"?

Don't talk about rampant complainers or professional victims in the same post you declare the inclusion of female characters "forced".
Sorry, I was talking about the statement, not the characters themselves.

I explained that awfully.
 

Folji

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People keep freaking out over oversexualized female characters in games lately, what about oversexualized male characters? No? Weeeeell, guess not. It's only ever about the oversexualization of females.
 

Ticklefist

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My 60 year old mom juts her hip. Do you guys need me to call her and tell her to stop being sexy?

I should be clear though, I agree with what Chris is saying and the example he gives. I think any mature person can recall a time when they found these things a lot less offensive than they do now.
 

Erttheking

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The Lunatic said:
erttheking said:
Really? Having five female characters is "forced". The Buddhist robot, that's perfectly fine, the Asian man on a modern battlefield with a bow, nothing wrong with that, the intelligent glasses wearing gorilla from the moon, fits in perfectly naturally, but the female characters are "forced"?

Don't talk about rampant complainers or professional victims in the same post you declare the inclusion of female characters "forced".
Sorry, I was talking about the statement, not the characters themselves.

I explained that awfully.
I take everything I said back and apologize.
 

Erttheking

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Folji said:
People keep freaking out over oversexualized female characters in games lately, what about oversexualized male characters? No? Weeeeell, guess not. It's only ever about the oversexualization of females.
Er...could you please point out an example of a sexualized male character? A couple just so I can get a feel of what you're talking about?

Because while I'm sure they exist, I'm pretty sure there's not that many of them.
 

Ambitiousmould

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Good. Not really anything else to add. It seems to be a pretty diverse cast of characters.

I was more bothered by the attempt to make a British character. It's like Blizzard's whole knowledge of England comes from watching Oliver! one time. To be honest I found it pretty funny, if a bit cringe-worthy.
 

The Lunatic

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Folji said:
People keep freaking out over oversexualized female characters in games lately, what about oversexualized male characters? No? Weeeeell, guess not. It's only ever about the oversexualization of females.
It's kinda amusing to see people try and claims that's a "Power Fantasy" as if the same couldn't be said about sexualised females.

They're basically saying "Yeah, men should feel empowered by being oversexualised, but for women it's a bad thing!".
 

Folji

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erttheking said:
Folji said:
People keep freaking out over oversexualized female characters in games lately, what about oversexualized male characters? No? Weeeeell, guess not. It's only ever about the oversexualization of females.
Er...could you please point out an example of a sexualized male character? A couple just so I can get a feel of what you're talking about?

Because while I'm sure they exist, I'm pretty sure there's not that many of them.
Well, since we're already on the subject of Blizzard here, what about Hanzo? C'mon, that's a gorgeous looking man right there. What about Blizzard general representation of male characters, those square-jawed, muscle-bound figured sculpted in the image of gods as an example of a proper physique? From Death to Chris Redfield and the always mentioned He-Man; guys whose bodies stand beyond any realistic expectation are pretty much all over, but no-one ever pays much attention to them. Characters whose bodies were obviously made for girls to enjoy and for guys to aspire to, kind of like the tight-fit and body-showing bikini suits of female characters tends to be the other way around--guys enjoy them, girls aspire to them.

At least, that's the mentality. Because clearly girls don't aspire to them, they find them oversexualized and just generally outrageous. But do guys ever make much of a fuss when the male character has a body beyond anything they could realistically be expected to have themselves? They don't tend to make that much of a fuss.

But I guess that comes, like Lunatic mentioned, down to oversexualized females coming across as just plain sex objects, while the oversexualized males are... "power fantasy" symbols. The dominant display of muscles and glory. Eesh.

No-one looked at 300, or its sequel, and cried oversexualization of men, did they? Of course not.

http://i.imgur.com/rwtta2q.png
 

Johkmil

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The Lunatic said:
Folji said:
People keep freaking out over oversexualized female characters in games lately, what about oversexualized male characters? No? Weeeeell, guess not. It's only ever about the oversexualization of females.
It's kinda amusing to see people try and claims that's a "Power Fantasy" as if the same couldn't be said about sexualised females.

They're basically saying "Yeah, men should feel empowered by being oversexualised, but for women it's a bad thing!".
There is a marked difference between a female power fantasy and an oversexualized female character.
A quick (hypotetical) test for female characters:
- If the generic female calls her ridiculous, and the generic male calls her sexy, the character might be oversexualized.
- If the generic female calls her sexy, and the generic male calls her sexy, the character is tastefully sexy.
- If the generic female calls her badass, and the generic male calls her sexy, the character is a genuine power fantasy.

There is only a false dichotomy between a character that is sexy to men and a character that makes "girls feel kick-butt."
A true power fantasy is both.
 

Erttheking

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The Lunatic said:
Folji said:
People keep freaking out over oversexualized female characters in games lately, what about oversexualized male characters? No? Weeeeell, guess not. It's only ever about the oversexualization of females.
It's kinda amusing to see people try and claims that's a "Power Fantasy" as if the same couldn't be said about sexualised females.

They're basically saying "Yeah, men should feel empowered by being oversexualised, but for women it's a bad thing!".
There's a bit of a difference between the two characters. There's more to being sexualized than just showing off skin. It's in the way the characters hold themselves and act. For example, a sexualized woman.
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140216223255/dragons-crown/images/f/f5/DC_-_Sorceress.png
Holds herself in a position designed to show off her ass legs and tits all in one shot, a position that looks very uncomfortable to hold and I can't think of any situation were a real life person would hold it., with a rather blank, almost empty "Fuck me" expression on her face. Now compare this to a empowered female. (Warning, a little NSFW)
http://i.imgur.com/bT86m3z.jpg
Ironically she shows off even more skin than the sorceress, but I wouldn't call her sexualized. A firm pose, swords in each hand, a look of anger on her face, a little bit of muscle and surrounded by a harem of men. Less "Fuck me" and more "I'm gonna fuck YOU"

For the sake of comparison. An empowered male.
http://natefury.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/conan-1.jpg
And a sexualized male.
http://i.imgur.com/GaNdaFQ.jpg

Same thing. Empowered male says "I'm gonna fuck YOU". Sexualized male says "Fuck me."

Really the difference between sexualized empowered characters is that sexualized characters exist for the convenience of others, while empowered characters exist for their own benefit.

I know I'm gonna get a ration of shit for this but...there you have it.
 

Erttheking

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Folji said:
erttheking said:
Folji said:
People keep freaking out over oversexualized female characters in games lately, what about oversexualized male characters? No? Weeeeell, guess not. It's only ever about the oversexualization of females.
Er...could you please point out an example of a sexualized male character? A couple just so I can get a feel of what you're talking about?

Because while I'm sure they exist, I'm pretty sure there's not that many of them.
Well, since we're already on the subject of Blizzard here, what about Hanzo? C'mon, that's a gorgeous looking man right there. What about Blizzard general representation of male characters, those square-jawed, muscle-bound figured sculpted in the image of gods as an example of a proper physique? From Death to Chris Redfield and the always mentioned He-Man; guys whose bodies stand beyond any realistic expectation are pretty much all over, but no-one ever pays much attention to them. Characters whose bodies were obviously made for girls to enjoy and for guys to aspire to, kind of like the tight-fit and body-showing bikini suits of female characters tends to be the other way around--guys enjoy them, girls aspire to them.

At least, that's the mentality. Because clearly girls don't aspire to them, they find them oversexualized and just generally outrageous. But do guys ever make much of a fuss when the male character has a body beyond anything they could realistically be expected to have themselves? They don't tend to make that much of a fuss.

But I guess that comes, like Lunatic mentioned, down to oversexualized females coming across as just plain sex objects, while the oversexualized males are... "power fantasy" symbols. The dominant display of muscles and glory. Eesh.

No-one looked at 300, or its sequel, and cried oversexualization of men, did they? Of course not.

http://i.imgur.com/rwtta2q.png
Yeah, but considering Hanzo is the sole example amongst an otherwise completely unsexualized cast of males, he's not a very strong example. Yeah, I hesitate to call that sexualization. Because they're not really there to show off what they've got, they're more there to kick ass. I explored this more in my reply to Lunatic, should only be a few posts above this one. Also, girls aspiring to be super models is a mindset I know a lot of people have been starting to criticize as extremely toxic, as it can cause unrealistic expectations and eating disorders like anorexia.

Again, explored in my post above. Really the only thing I've seen recently that I feel like really sexualizes men is JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.
 

JarinArenos

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Jetfan007 said:
To the bolded point, do you believe ragdoll physics to be sexist? 'Cause the only time you'll ever see "porn poses" is in a game with ragdoll physics or poorly implemented 'realistic' physics. Is bad coding sexist?
If it IS just poorly-implemented ragdoll coding and there's no egregious difference between the enemy outfits, then obviously not.
On henchmen, many games have done exactly that. Does that mean that there shouldn't be games with henchmen? Are henchmen a problem? Are henchmen in movies, comics, TV, books, etc a problem? Should every character in a story be named, with a full backstory?
I get the impression that you're still in hyperbolic mode, not discussion. Please talk to me, not to the perceived sides. What's your opinion on henchmen in general? I already gave an idea of mine, and nothing in what I said even vaguely implied being in favor of total abolishment.
 

Dogstile

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So the muscled up men aren't sexualised because women... don't like girls who have a hell of a lot of muscle definition? I must be watching the wrong bodybuilder competitions and reading the wrong fanfiction.

I suppose I should stop working out too. My girlfriends gonna hate that shit.
 

MetalShadowChaos

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Here's my opinion on the characters based on my time getting rather exited about this game:

I think they did a pretty good job. To go trough each character, Tracer I think we can all agree is pretty good in terms of how progressive she is. I wouldn't at all consider her sexualised. Sure she does the whole hip-jut thing that seems all too common in female presentation these days (and it will be back in this post), but I think she's pretty neat.

Pharrah has the whole Samus Aran chest thing going on and I'm digging it(note: I'm looking forward to playing her most. Zone of the Enders missile barrage yo). And people thought Samus was a man until Ninty told us. Again, pretty great, even more against stereotypes than Tracer, and Tracer's pretty great.

Symettra is an interesting one, since we can't deny that she's got the sexy going on(Yes, the hip jut is back, WITH A VENGANCE). Thing is, it isn't unfitting with her character, to the point where I'd have trouble believing her as a character if she DIDN'T do the sexiness. Her character is all about elegance and finesse, and a key element of elegance and finesse is CURVES. It would be weird for someone that knows the importance of curves in design not to show of her own. So yeah, I like it.

Mercy probably rang a few alarm bells for those inclined to worry about these things at first glance, but give it a bit of a thaught and she actually isn't bad. People assume that a woman wearing a skinsuit immediately means that the character is sexualised, but here's a little experiment: mentally switch her gender in your head. Rid he rof the boobs and maybe give some bulge down there. It's actually not that bad. Point being she isn't wearing anything that a man wouldn't wear, so I would personally put the fact that it's sexy down to the personal preferences of your average observer(myself included). The high heels are a bit much though. She poses herself evocatively, but I think that's more to do with the Angel imagery than sexuality. Angels have presence, they're GOD'S BEINGS ON EARTH, so the semantic field of Angels she has going kind of means she has to ham it up a bit. Tell a guy to give himself presence and he's probably push his chest and crotch forward as well.

Widowmaker, yeah. I'm not denying this one. I defended skinsuits before though, so to explain the specific problem here, and the difference between Widow's an Mercy's, it's the highlight in the centre. The white line that focuses attention on the well-defined cleavage. That and the defined line between the legs and hips, while also highlighting the inner thighs. Widow's skinsuit is a VERY different story to Mercy's, and is indeed sexualised. Coupled with the return of the hip-jut WITH THE FORCE OF A THOUSAND SUNS, and a personality which has no bearing on her actions makes her pretty heavily sexualised. But you know what, why not have one, eh? I mean, I'd suggest they make her personality better suit the actions she performs, but I'm not opposed to having your one sexualised character. And hell, anyone here think of a way to have a spider-woman without making I sexual? Thanks to beauty's like Quelaag and Arachne, Spider-Women are inherently sexual, so I guess it's just conforming to some good old tropes. And tropes aren't bad, you know? There for fun.


So there's my analysis, for what it's worth. They've done a pretty good job as far as I'm concerned. Some work in places could make things a little better but equality has no perfect state, we'll never be exactly equal or we'd end up the masked, cloaked, monk-bricks.Not bad. Keep up the good work Blizzard.
 

MetalShadowChaos

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Subbies said:
The Goat Tsar said:
I like how racially diverse it is. Germans, Swedes, Egyptians, Indians, Nepalese... Pretty good so far. Just needs a few black and Hispanic characters and it'll be set.

In the cinematic trailer, we see this image where there is indeed a black guy. Whether or not he'll be playable is up to guess, but I'm tempted to that that he will be, it's just that blizzard hasn't implemented the whole roster of heroes to pick from yet, hence why he wasn't seen in the gameplay trailer.
Now here's a point from a personal perspective, there is one character in this image that gives me a boner on an immeasurable scale in comparison to all others.

That robot between Tracer and Winston.

Seriously.