Blizzard "Trying Not to Oversexualize" Female Overwatch Characters

[Folji]

Also, girls aspiring to be super models is a mindset I know a lot of people have been starting to criticize as extremely toxic, as it can cause unrealistic expectations and eating disorders like anorexia.

Again, explored in my post above.

Well, there is really the root of the problem with oversexualization in both cases. Whether it is a female oversexualization portraying a character screaming to be taken, or a male oversexualization screaming their intent to take someone? I mean, after all, the split is visibly there. The split is visibly there as you mentioned, the female oversexualization usually portrays a slender and voluptuous figure, big in just the right places, while the male character is a muscle-bound hulk all about asserting dominance. It's two different kinds of oversexualization, it really is.

But for both cases, the inevitable outcome of them? An overarcing mentality that those are the kind of girls the guys want, and those are the kind of guys the girls want. And where does that leave people? With a feeling that their appearance just isn't good enough, if they don't have the body of a supermodel, whether that's an hourglass-shaped girl or a well-sculpted guy. Yes they are two distinctly different presentations, and arguably the female presentation is more detrimental for being a 'submissive' sexualization to the male 'empowered' sexualization, especially in the example you showed there.

But for both of them, the root of it all is that it constantly hammers on a representation of the genders that neither guys nor girls would really aspire to. It points at them and says "this is how your gender should look, only you don't". It instills a feeling of unwanted inadequacy, regardless of whether you are male or female, not to mention an unwanted pressure to obtain that kind of a physique. It's just as toxic for guys as it is for girls. The expectations become unrealistic for everyone.

 

[softclocks]

Meanwhile there's no shortage of shirtless man-gods walking around...

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

How sad that gaming companies have to be forced to announce this kind of statement in the vain attempt to "appease" gamers with political and social agendas... Makes me very depressed that we allowed RL social issues to enter gaming communities and culture. Someone please make me a time machine where I can stay permanently in the 80s-early 00s gaming forums.

So games are becoming like every other medium of entertainment now? I don't see the problem.

 

[The Material Sheep]

Also, girls aspiring to be super models is a mindset I know a lot of people have been starting to criticize as extremely toxic, as it can cause unrealistic expectations and eating disorders like anorexia.

Again, explored in my post above.

Well, there is really the root of the problem with oversexualization in both cases. Whether it is a female oversexualization portraying a character screaming to be taken, or a male oversexualization screaming their intent to take someone? I mean, after all, the split is visibly there. The split is visibly there as you mentioned, the female oversexualization usually portrays a slender and voluptuous figure, big in just the right places, while the male character is a muscle-bound hulk all about asserting dominance. It's two different kinds of oversexualization, it really is.

But for both cases, the inevitable outcome of them? An overarcing mentality that those are the kind of girls the guys want, and those are the kind of guys the girls want. And where does that leave people? With a feeling that their appearance just isn't good enough, if they don't have the body of a supermodel, whether that's an hourglass-shaped girl or a well-sculpted guy. Yes they are two distinctly different presentations, and arguably the female presentation is more detrimental for being a 'submissive' sexualization to the male 'empowered' sexualization, especially in the example you showed there.

But for both of them, the root of it all is that it constantly hammers on a representation of the genders that neither guys nor girls would really aspire to. It points at them and says "this is how your gender should look, only you don't". It instills a feeling of unwanted inadequacy, regardless of whether you are male or female, not to mention an unwanted pressure to obtain that kind of a physique. It's just as toxic for guys as it is for girls. The expectations become unrealistic for everyone.

Is it toxic though to try and express our ideals on human beauty through romantic art? Which is what oversexualization is. It's romanticized visions of human beings at the peak of what society thinks is beautiful. They are idealized, and the majority can never reach that kind of physical beauty but isn't that kind of the point of heroic idealistic art? Not to tell you that this is how you should be but to vicariously feel like a hero by playing through these idealistically designed avatars. You say it's a toxic cultural mentality telling people they aren't good enough, I see a celebration of the human form in way that society generally sees as idealized.

 

[dragonswarrior]

snips

You're taking my quote out of context. *laughs* It's cool though. I was saying those things mostly in response to what Z was saying.

I actually do think this is a step in the right direction. I don't think it's enough of a step, or even a very big step. But it is a step and I appreciate that.

Well, I'm just glad somebody here sees things the way I do.

Ha. Ha ha. Ha ha ha. Very witty. (So I guess on par with my post eh?)

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

I still disagree that people like Kratos are sexualized, but I can understand where the unrealistic expectations come from and how they can hurt.

To be perfectly honest I feel like it's less like it's what people want to be like/ want in a partner and more like what the stereotype of people want to be like/ want in a person. To be honest the media kind of pushes this form of idealized bodies on us, because really when was it decided that that is what was popular? I don't remember taking a survey. The ideal woman for me is tall with long black hair and a bit of muscle. I don't see too many of those in fiction. It's why I groan when people say "They're just giving the audience what they want." No, they're just making what they want and saying the audience wanted it. I know I'm royally off topic here, but I feel like this might flesh out my stance for this a bit.

Oh...you agree with me on everything I've been rambling about...cool.

So, quick question, do you agree with me in that there should be a healthy balance of sexualized and empowered characters for both genders? If I haven't convinced you of the difference between the two, than at least an even balance of the types I showed you? With plenty of exploration of everything in between?

I kind of lost track of what I was talking about.

 

[dragonswarrior]

So the muscled up men aren't sexualised because women... don't like girls who have a hell of a lot of muscle definition? I must be watching the wrong bodybuilder competitions and reading the wrong fanfiction.

I suppose I should stop working out too. My girlfriends gonna hate that shit.

The only sexualised man in this game is the archer. He's a hotty. The others are robots, gorillas, completely covered from head to toe in cloaks and masks, and a dwarf looking mofo.

I have never heard a woman describe the Marcus Fenix (sp?) body type as sexy. I'm sure they exist, but they're probably in the minority, if not a vast minority.

Whereas, in this game alone, every woman in it is attractive. Even the awesome armor lady has an element of sexiness to her character design. There is nothing sexy about the gorilla, or the dwarf dude. Well, let me correct that, nothing CONVENTIONALLY sexy. I'm not gonna diss ya if you're into that sorta thing. But every woman in this game, even the one that has nothing but a mouth showing, is conventionally attractive.

That's a problem.

 

[Z of the Na'vi]

Ha. Ha ha. Ha ha ha. Very witty. (So I guess on par with my post eh?)

More or less, heh. I suppose we can agree to disagree at this point.

Still though, I guess it's okay if people feel strongly about this issue. I've just never concerned myself too much with topics like this. Sorry if I offended at all.

 

[Folji]

So, quick question, do you agree with me in that there should be a healthy balance of sexualized and empowered characters for both genders? If I haven't convinced you of the difference between the two, than at least an even balance of the types I showed you? With plenty of exploration of everything in between?

I kind of lost track of what I was talking about.

Yeah, a healthy diversity of characters is great, even if it does inevitably fall into that same mentality of trying to evenly represent everything. A little bit of token this, a bit of token that, but look at games like Team Fortress 2 or Borderlands. Sure TF2 is a total boy's club as far as the character roster goes, but that's beside the point, because what those two games have in common is that their representation of really any characters portrayed in their respective universes as a whole? They're diverse. And I'm not thinking genders or races, I'm thinking physically. How they both show off the many different ways a person can look, the way they use that to give the characters their character, instead of gunning straight for voluptuous girls or herculean guys as though they're trying to promote some kind of sexual attraction to the characters.

I think that's a good mentality, right there. A character shouldn't have their appearance based on what the player might find attractive, it should be based on what actually fits the character. Otherwise, you're just bombarding the audience with a physical idealization that's only going to have a toxic effect at the end of the day. And that, if you ask me, is the root of the problem for oversexualized characters, for guys and girls alike.

 

[Ticklefist]

snip

You do realize that what you've said amounts to. :

"People who agfree with my outlooks are more deserving of having their needs met and are better people than those that don't"

No, what I said was "Would you rather cater to a group of customers that will abandon you if you don't make all of your female characters sex objects for whom their wants are better served elsewhere in the same market (plenty of sex games) and other markets (porn is an obvious one) or would you rather appeal to people who primarily play it as a game and are willing to be a consumer of your goods as long as you don't antagonize or alieniate them?"

Well that first group doesn't even exist so what's the point of answering?

 

[MetalShadowChaos]

So the muscled up men aren't sexualised because women... don't like girls who have a hell of a lot of muscle definition? I must be watching the wrong bodybuilder competitions and reading the wrong fanfiction.

I suppose I should stop working out too. My girlfriends gonna hate that shit.

The only sexualised man in this game is the archer. He's a hotty. The others are robots, gorillas, completely covered from head to toe in cloaks and masks, and a dwarf looking mofo.

I have never heard a woman describe the Marcus Fenix (sp?) body type as sexy. I'm sure they exist, but they're probably in the minority, if not a vast minority.

Whereas, in this game alone, every woman in it is attractive. Even the awesome armor lady has an element of sexiness to her character design. There is nothing sexy about the gorilla, or the dwarf dude. Well, let me correct that, nothing CONVENTIONALLY sexy. I'm not gonna diss ya if you're into that sorta thing. But every woman in this game, even the one that has nothing but a mouth showing, is conventionally attractive.

That's a problem.

For one, I don't think it's a problem. Every woman is attractive, because people are going to be looking at them. That's the fact. Every single character is designed to be aesthetically pleasing because people will look at them. It's the Tomoki effect, as I call it. Even if you are told that the character is Ugly, chances are their design as you see it will not be.

And also, there is no standard definition for what classes as a 'default' sexy man. Which is a GOOD thing! And we shouldn't be focused on GETTING any. More important is getting more variety in female character designs to match up with what is accepted for men. Which Overwatch has done to at least a small extent with Pharah, even if she's essentially Egyptian Samus with some Orbital Gear for good measure(side note, I don't think the Zone of the Enders comparisons and her Egyptian origins are co-incidence, someone at Blizzard likes Kojima).

 

[Story]

Well, at least they are listening to fan feedback. That's always good.

 

[Ticklefist]

Well that first group doesn't even exist so what's the point of answering?

The way he phrase his rhetorical, he implies that there is, and they're in equal number as to those who would rather not have the characters oversexualized.

I mean the "group of customers that will abandon you if you don't make all of your female characters sex objects."

There is no such group. That assertion is more blatantly offensive than anything else being discussed here. It's a hell of a lot more antagonistic than a girl jutting out her hip so she can rest her rifle on it.

 

[Erttheking]

So, quick question, do you agree with me in that there should be a healthy balance of sexualized and empowered characters for both genders? If I haven't convinced you of the difference between the two, than at least an even balance of the types I showed you? With plenty of exploration of everything in between?

I kind of lost track of what I was talking about.

Yeah, a healthy diversity of characters is great, even if it does inevitably fall into that same mentality of trying to evenly represent everything. A little bit of token this, a bit of token that, but look at games like Team Fortress 2 or Borderlands. Sure TF2 is a total boy's club as far as the character roster goes, but that's beside the point, because what those two games have in common is that their representation of really any characters portrayed in their respective universes as a whole? They're diverse. And I'm not thinking genders or races, I'm thinking physically. How they both show off the many different ways a person can look, the way they use that to give the characters their character, instead of gunning straight for voluptuous girls or herculean guys as though they're trying to promote some kind of sexual attraction to the characters.

I think that's a good mentality, right there. A character shouldn't have their appearance based on what the player might find attractive, it should be based on what actually fits the character. Otherwise, you're just bombarding the audience with a physical idealization that's only going to have a toxic effect at the end of the day. And that, if you ask me, is the root of the problem for oversexualized characters, for guys and girls alike.

It is pretty cool of TF2 to show that, and it's why I do like how Overwatch is turning out in terms of variety. Granted I wish that it had a bit more variety to it in terms of body types, but overall it's still a pretty solid step in the right direction.

Oh dear God a thousand times yes. Half of the time the reason sexy characters annoy me, it's because it completely contradicts either the setting or the character. Apparently Ivy from Soul Caliber is supposed to have taken an oath of chastity. Her outfit can most generously described as a bunch of string with a few random scraps of cloth. Is it really too much to ask for internal consistency from writers?

 

[Ticklefist]

Well that first group doesn't even exist so what's the point of answering?

The way he phrase his rhetorical, he implies that there is, and they're in equal number as to those who would rather not have the characters oversexualized.

I mean the "group of customers that will abandon you if you don't make all of your female characters sex objects."

There is no such group. Just the mere assertion is more blatantly offensive than anything else being discussed here.

Again, what he implied. His rhetorical implied that there was a group of equal size that wouldn't patron the game if the characters who are women were oversexualized as the group of people who wouldn't patronthe game if they were oversexualized.

I understand. My mistake.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

People keep freaking out over oversexualized female characters in games lately, what about oversexualized male characters? No? Weeeeell, guess not. It's only ever about the oversexualization of females.

It's kinda amusing to see people try and claims that's a "Power Fantasy" as if the same couldn't be said about sexualised females.

They're basically saying "Yeah, men should feel empowered by being oversexualised, but for women it's a bad thing!".

The difference is that when a woman tells a man that she thinks he's sexy, he doesn't have to worry about where she's going with that compliment, and whether or not the wrong response (even if it's a fair response) will antagonize her. Meanwhile women need to be very careful about how they handle a man giving her a compliment, because sometimes (granted not always, but it happens) no matter how she reacts, the guy will act like he was already given permission by simple virtue of her passing across his line of sight.

In short, a guy will nearly-always regard it as a compliment when he's told he looks good. Meanwhile for a woman, being told the same thing can be the scariest thing she hears, because "Oh shit, was that just a random compliment, or him verbally marking his territory?"

 

[Riot3000]

So this come from a our friendly neighborhood Kotaku.
Sheesh the comments here even if they are rhetorical is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

Ok Blizzard congrats I guess.