Blizzard: Valve Shouldn't Trademark DotA

Crasha

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bob1052 said:
So your reasoning for why WoW is bad is because they have 5 (iirc) non-game changing cosmetic micro transactions (one that benefits charity) and things that allow you to change server, etc. for social reasons such as wanting to play with a friend. And because it is designed to be addicting like EVERY other MMO out there.
Yeah that's exactly one of the things that's wrong. Why the heck should you be required to pay for changing the freaking server your character is on? Furthermore, it's quite a hassle to do so.
 

JerrytheBullfrog

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Yosharian said:
JerrytheBullfrog said:
They gave it a lot of support for what it was, a community game. Blizzard didn't WANT DotA All-stars to be its own. What part of that is so impossible for you to understand? They wanted it to remain a community game. That's why they never sold it for their own. Do you really think they're DUMB from a business standpoint? If they wanted to hire the DotA guys they could have.

I don't understand what WoW has to do with a lack of principles, that was my point.

And do you really not get that the only reason Blizzard is speaking out now is because they were asked about it? What is hard to understand here?
Yes, frankly. I think DotA has so much potential. The teamplay in a game of DotA is fantastic, and it deserves more than the aging Warcraft 3 engine and crappy battle.net system. For god's sake, after a ridiculous amount of years it has only JUST gotten a decent reconnection tool going. And even that is quite limited in its use.

I think they missed the boat, and now they're kicking themselves for it. Hey, it's just my opinion.

I think WoW demonstrates a lack of principles because it is built from the ground up to be addictive with very little creative content. I mean all games are addictive but with WoW it is the most important design aspect. If you looked into game psychology you would learn why WoW demonstrates this. Well, that's what I suggest, anyway. Plus there is all the horrid micro-transaction shit coming in now.

I don't think anything that Rob Pardo does in the PR department is by accident, or coincidence.
If that's what you think about WoW, then you don't play WoW. There's a ton of creativity and Blizzard has constantly tried to make the game LESS grind-y and so players don't have to sign their lives away.

Blizzard is now making its own free DotA mod. How is that not supporting it now? They're just not copyrighting the name DotA.

Microtransactions don't affect a single thing in-game. Unlike, hmm, TF2.

So Rob Pardo chooses what eurogamer asks him?
 

bob1052

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Crasha said:
bob1052 said:
So your reasoning for why WoW is bad is because they have 5 (iirc) non-game changing cosmetic micro transactions (one that benefits charity) and things that allow you to change server, etc. for social reasons such as wanting to play with a friend. And because it is designed to be addicting like EVERY other MMO out there.
Yeah that's exactly one of the things that's wrong. Why the heck should you be required to pay for changing the freaking server your character is on? Furthermore, it's quite a hassle to do so.
Because it puts a strain on their servers every time you change. Sure its not much, but if everyone did it as much as they wanted, it would be an issue.

Would you rather it be like every other MMO, where you can not change servers ever?

Also, changing servers isn't treated as something everyone should do by Blizzard, in fact its quite the opposite. You can only do it once every 30 days(iirc), and once you do it you cannot get certain server first exclusives for a time.

Yosharian said:
bob1052 said:
So your reasoning for why WoW is bad is because they have 5 (iirc) non-game changing cosmetic micro transactions (one that benefits charity) and things that allow you to change server, etc. for social reasons such as wanting to play with a friend. And because it is designed to be addicting like EVERY other MMO out there.

Your reasoning for hating Blizzard for standing up for the community in the case of DotA is because for some arbitrary reason known only to you it relates to a basic game development philosophy every MMO developer uses and for a very non-intrusive, well implemented micro transaction system.
It's more complex than that.

Read:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/articles/ethical-dilemmas/2007/09/19/1189881577195.html

and particularly this for more detail:

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

Nail on head:

Play It Or Lose It:

This is the real dick move. Why reward the hamster for pressing the lever? Why not simply set it up so that when he fails to press it, we punish him?
I'm still unsure why you hate Blizzard for this when every MMO developer is trying to do this. China (I think it was China) even had to make laws limiting the time developers can let people play their game because MMOs are designed to be addicting.
 

dotamaster

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Oct 24, 2010
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Rob Pardo is just regretting he didn't get Icefrog before Valve did.

This is good for the Dota genre. Blizzard shouldn't be whining anyway.
Plus it's called Dota 2.

Other recommended games in the Dota genre:
Heroes of Newerth

Blizzard DOTA Presscon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n0_2EpbE3A
 

bob1052

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dotamaster said:
Rob Pardo is just regretting he didn't get Icefrog before Valve did.

This is good for the Dota genre. Blizzard shouldn't be whining anyway.
Plus it's called Dota 2.

Other recommended games in the Dota genre:
Heroes of Newerth
Blizzard had years to do it, if they wanted to, they would have.

HoN and LoL both use the DotA pseudo-genre, DotA 2 names itself after the original, and also tries to turn the old mod whos name is synonymous with the style of game that ALL of these games are and privatize it for Valve only.
 

RobCoxxy

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Activision Blizzard:
Pissed they didn't think of it first.

One more idea Kotick will love though, copyrighting other people's ideas and getting money for it.

Awesome. ¬_¬
 

V8 Ninja

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Dioxide20 said:
Blizzard "Dammit, we didn't get the copyright first, hey Valve, not cool".
Exactly my thoughts. Oh, and isn't everything made by Valve basically owned by the community in a sense? I mean, the source engine is free to use and modify as anyone sees...
 

Popido

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Oct 21, 2010
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I agree with Blizzard on this. DotA has alot nostalgic value within the Blizzard's community and Im sure that they even themselfs have spented hours on playing it. But this really is just the usual Valve, open-armedly helping young people to get into the gaming industry.

Taliban is still Taliban, but if they really want to change it, then I suggest to talk with Icefrog about it. :/
 

Exort

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V8 Ninja said:
Dioxide20 said:
Blizzard "Dammit, we didn't get the copyright first, hey Valve, not cool".
Exactly my thoughts. Oh, and isn't everything made by Valve basically owned by the community in a sense? I mean, the source engine is free to use and modify as anyone sees...
So is Blizzard's map editor on every game...
and why copyright a free game? Blizzard DotA is free...
but Valve's isn't...
 

Crasha

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Oct 23, 2010
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People seem to forget that Blizzard already got the money to produce Blizzard Dota from the sale of StarCraft 2. Just sayin'
 

Balobo

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JerrytheBullfrog said:
Yosharian said:
JerrytheBullfrog said:
They gave it a lot of support for what it was, a community game. Blizzard didn't WANT DotA All-stars to be its own. What part of that is so impossible for you to understand? They wanted it to remain a community game. That's why they never sold it for their own. Do you really think they're DUMB from a business standpoint? If they wanted to hire the DotA guys they could have.

I don't understand what WoW has to do with a lack of principles, that was my point.

And do you really not get that the only reason Blizzard is speaking out now is because they were asked about it? What is hard to understand here?
Yes, frankly. I think DotA has so much potential. The teamplay in a game of DotA is fantastic, and it deserves more than the aging Warcraft 3 engine and crappy battle.net system. For god's sake, after a ridiculous amount of years it has only JUST gotten a decent reconnection tool going. And even that is quite limited in its use.

I think they missed the boat, and now they're kicking themselves for it. Hey, it's just my opinion.

I think WoW demonstrates a lack of principles because it is built from the ground up to be addictive with very little creative content. I mean all games are addictive but with WoW it is the most important design aspect. If you looked into game psychology you would learn why WoW demonstrates this. Well, that's what I suggest, anyway. Plus there is all the horrid micro-transaction shit coming in now.

I don't think anything that Rob Pardo does in the PR department is by accident, or coincidence.
If that's what you think about WoW, then you don't play WoW. There's a ton of creativity and Blizzard has constantly tried to make the game LESS grind-y and so players don't have to sign their lives away.

Blizzard is now making its own free DotA mod. How is that not supporting it now? They're just not copyrighting the name DotA.

Microtransactions don't affect a single thing in-game. Unlike, hmm, TF2.

So Rob Pardo chooses what eurogamer asks him?
Umm... every item in TF2 is available without paying. It's just those people that feel like they can't earn their items are allowed to pay.

Also, you're not allowed to call any of us delusional Valve fanboys when you seem to be a delusional Blizzard fanboy yourself.
 

fundayz

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Feb 22, 2010
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It's a really hairy topic.

On one hand, yes, DoTA is a community created game spawned from the game of another game. It DOES feel kind of unfair.
On the other hand, you can't blame Valve for wanting to protect any innovative work the do on the game, which can really only be protected through a trademark. If Valve, DIDN'T trademark DoTA 2 then pretty much anything they put in the game(with their employees and resources) can literally just be copy+pasted to another game, essentially putting them on the position of having to choose innovation versus playing it safe.

Valve would be justified in trademarking DoTA if they make the new game for than just DoTA 2.0.
If they add enough new features they are completely in the right about trademarking the brand.

Either way, I'm not worried. If there's one thing Valve is known for is its community support and I doubt the trademark is going to make them rule the game with an iron fist, specially considering the origins of the game.

P.S. don't forget that the original creator of DoTA is now a part of Valve, so they have a justification in wanting to trademark the name.
 

JerrytheBullfrog

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Balobo said:
JerrytheBullfrog said:
Yosharian said:
JerrytheBullfrog said:
They gave it a lot of support for what it was, a community game. Blizzard didn't WANT DotA All-stars to be its own. What part of that is so impossible for you to understand? They wanted it to remain a community game. That's why they never sold it for their own. Do you really think they're DUMB from a business standpoint? If they wanted to hire the DotA guys they could have.

I don't understand what WoW has to do with a lack of principles, that was my point.

And do you really not get that the only reason Blizzard is speaking out now is because they were asked about it? What is hard to understand here?
Yes, frankly. I think DotA has so much potential. The teamplay in a game of DotA is fantastic, and it deserves more than the aging Warcraft 3 engine and crappy battle.net system. For god's sake, after a ridiculous amount of years it has only JUST gotten a decent reconnection tool going. And even that is quite limited in its use.

I think they missed the boat, and now they're kicking themselves for it. Hey, it's just my opinion.

I think WoW demonstrates a lack of principles because it is built from the ground up to be addictive with very little creative content. I mean all games are addictive but with WoW it is the most important design aspect. If you looked into game psychology you would learn why WoW demonstrates this. Well, that's what I suggest, anyway. Plus there is all the horrid micro-transaction shit coming in now.

I don't think anything that Rob Pardo does in the PR department is by accident, or coincidence.
If that's what you think about WoW, then you don't play WoW. There's a ton of creativity and Blizzard has constantly tried to make the game LESS grind-y and so players don't have to sign their lives away.

Blizzard is now making its own free DotA mod. How is that not supporting it now? They're just not copyrighting the name DotA.

Microtransactions don't affect a single thing in-game. Unlike, hmm, TF2.

So Rob Pardo chooses what eurogamer asks him?
Umm... every item in TF2 is available without paying. It's just those people that feel like they can't earn their items are allowed to pay.

Also, you're not allowed to call any of us delusional Valve fanboys when you seem to be a delusional Blizzard fanboy yourself.
That's worse. You're paying for time. As opposed to paying for something completely cosmetic.

I love lots of games. Valve is my second favorite developer behind Blizzard. I just think their fanboys are totally nuts.
 

JerrytheBullfrog

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Yosharian said:
bob1052 said:
So your reasoning for why WoW is bad is because they have 5 (iirc) non-game changing cosmetic micro transactions (one that benefits charity) and things that allow you to change server, etc. for social reasons such as wanting to play with a friend. And because it is designed to be addicting like EVERY other MMO out there.

Your reasoning for hating Blizzard for standing up for the community in the case of DotA is because for some arbitrary reason known only to you it relates to a basic game development philosophy every MMO developer uses and for a very non-intrusive, well implemented micro transaction system.
It's more complex than that.

Read:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/articles/ethical-dilemmas/2007/09/19/1189881577195.html

and particularly this for more detail:

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

Nail on head:

Play It Or Lose It:

This is the real dick move. Why reward the hamster for pressing the lever? Why not simply set it up so that when he fails to press it, we punish him?
JerrytheBullfrog said:
If that's what you think about WoW, then you don't play WoW. There's a ton of creativity and Blizzard has constantly tried to make the game LESS grind-y and so players don't have to sign their lives away.

Blizzard is now making its own free DotA mod. How is that not supporting it now? They're just not copyrighting the name DotA.

Microtransactions don't affect a single thing in-game. Unlike, hmm, TF2.

So Rob Pardo chooses what eurogamer asks him?
I suggest you read the above links and then reconsider your position. If you still think that Blizz has made the game less grindy.. then fair enough.

As for Blizzard's DotA mod. Think about it. People have to play STARCRAFT 2 to play this mod. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Blizzard knows full well that a large part of WC3's longevity came from DotA and other custom maps.

I think Rob Pardo chooses very carefully what he says and doesn't say.
I read those a while ago. I still think what I think. I remember spending 3 hours at night to not do ANYTHING.

People should buy SC2 because it's a fantastic game and play it. DotA is icing on the cake. Valve is goign to sell their DotA separately almost certainly.
 

technoted

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In simple I think that no one should own DotA apart from the people who created it in the first place. Having created assorted games on the RoC and FT map editor and having played DotA I understand where a lot of people are coming from, I don't like how Valve's selfish actions could ruin a lot of fun for people, by all means let them make a DotA but charging for it? I'd honestly rather pay for the original.