Breast Sizes and Complaints

[infohippie]

It's threads like this that make me ashamed of liking the female body.

It makes me despise, and scornful of, the people who WANT to shame anyone for liking the female body.

Boobs of all different kinds are great. I'm a big fan of them, from enormous to nearly flat. As someone above me said, it depends on the person (or game character) and what looks good on them specifically. I don't like games where all female characters are given huge tits just because, but if a character design works well with big boobs, or with tiny ones, I see nothing wrong in liking them for what they are.

 

[wolfyrik]

I hate the new Lara for a series of reasons.

- She is MORE sexualized now that she is "realistic" than when she was a perfect hourglass-shaped woman with balloon boobs.

- "You will want to protect her". Cue sexy and pointless moanings of Lara during the game.

- She went from being her own character to simply being a female version of Nathan Drake (even including the sexy "goodlooking person in danger and dirt" thing).

Oldschool Lara was only slightly more of a character than the paddles in Pong.

Oldschool Lara wasn't in a game that was trying to be a character driven drama. (I'm not going to count American Lara, just the one in TR 1-5, because they're somewhat different characters)

New Laras character is....what exactly? "I'm scared" and "I can do this"? She's no more of a character than old school Lara croft, but oldschool Lara Croft wasn't pretending or trying to be anything else other than an action hero. New Lara just gets off on "dem feels" and because shes "vulnerable", she's not so much a character as a dramatic set piece for punishment. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed TR2013, but lets not pretend it told an amazing story because it didn't. Everyone is a stock character through and through.

To me, Old Lara was way better as a strong female character. She may not be a particularly complex or deep character, but her gender is never bought up, even her enemies respect her as an enemy and at what she does, heck, Sophia Leigh asks for her autograph. She isn't a strong "female", she's just strong. Yes, we don't go into her likes and dislikes, her inner demons, her struggles for survival, but not every story needs that. She's a superhero.

New Laras story isn't even told very well, she goes from being a timid, unsure and weak personality to uber capable action hero quite literally overnight. Yes, its a video game, all video game characters do impossible things for a living, but this is a game that's trying to tell a "grounded", character driven drama, and that doesn't work if you accelerate and compress time.

I don't like being beaten over the head with the notion that not only is she female, but she's SOOO CAPABLE. Because in my head I just say "So what? So was my Lara, and the game didn't feel the need to remind me of it every five seconds." It's almost the opposite of its own goal, because I was never under the impression that women can't be capable action heroes in the first place, in its attempt to be empowering, it faulters because it begins with the notion that she couldn't be powerful /because/ she is female and must overcome that, despite the fact that I'm playing fucking Tomb Raider, a series known for its badass action lead.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/9893950/Lara-Croft-in-Tomb-Raider-I-dont-need-reminding-that-shes-a-woman.html

Is something I'm going to add as a supplementary piece to my thoughts.

I agree, I enjoyed the original tomb raider ( the sequals not so much, got tired of the forumla). Most of the reasons I didn't enjoy TR2013 were gameplay, way too many QTEs but there was soemthing else nagging me all the way through the game and people have hit the nail in this thread. It's the constant references to Lara's gender. They've gone so far into trying not be sexist, that they've managed to come out the other side into actual sexism on quite a sinister level.

Big Boobs Lara was purile, in the same way that musclep-headed, mysoginistic Duke Nukem was purile but there was no real sexism in the TR. Nobody wanted to protect her because she didn't need it. Lara kicked ass. She wasn't breaking into tears every few minutes, no veiled threats of sexual assault and didn't need to be "vulnerable". Just an adventurer with guns.... who happens to be a girl for a change. We still enjoyed playing as her, still enjoyed finding secrets and shooting baddies.

I can see what they were aiming for, but they missed it. TR2013 should have been a story about a student who was exploring with friends and colleagues suddenly found themselves in a nightmare situation where they had to fight to survive, oh and happened to be girl.

Instad what we got was a lost confused, vulnerable girl who suddenly finds herself in a nightmare situation oh and she happens a student or something, which is kind of why she's on this boat or whatever, erm something story-ish. She's a girl by the way. A girl who's a lead in a game and this her creation story. Did we mention she's a girl? We're not sexist cos look, there's a girl. We know girls can't be tough but she's got to end up that way so look there's a potential sexal assault, that's why she has to pick up that gun, so it's ok that she's a girl who can fight and totally reasonable.......did we mention she's a girl?

 

[Dizchu]

It makes me despise, and scornful of, the people who WANT to shame anyone for liking the female body.

Boobs of all different kinds are great. I'm a big fan of them, from enormous to nearly flat. As someone above me said, it depends on the person (or game character) and what looks good on them specifically. I don't like games where all female characters are given huge tits just because, but if a character design works well with big boobs, or with tiny ones, I see nothing wrong in liking them for what they are.

The problem is when people treat the female body as if it's a sports car or something, and that's the uncomfortable feeling I get from threads like these.

 

[elvor0]

Oldschool Lara wasn't in a game that was trying to be a character driven drama. (I'm not going to count American Lara, just the one in TR 1-5, because they're somewhat different characters)\

Not the point, and I don't really care how you feel about either Lara. A claim, a false claim as to Lara's character was made. WW made a positive claim about Lara's character. Apparently, the real reason had nothing to do with what I said (seems to be a running theme) but because she has such a massive dislike for current Lara (also seems to be a running theme).

But it is a point you made:

- She went from being her own character to simply being a female version of Nathan Drake (even including the sexy "goodlooking person in danger and dirt" thing).

Oldschool Lara was only slightly more of a character than the paddles in Pong.

That is the point you made and what I'm adding to. The new vs old Lara debate has long since moved on from her tits, you're the one that bought up people being angry about her lowered bust size, but I'm not seeing that here, nor do I remember it being a thing either. The reason people are not directly talking to you about Laras tits is because they clearly don't want to. Noone cares about her tits, they care that a character they enjoyed got gutted.

WW didn't make a false claim, he stated an opinion that you didn't agree with. He didn't say old Lara was a deep character, he said she was her OWN character. There's a difference.

 

[Thaluikhain]

The cup size is the band size subtracted from the bust size, inches equaling letters. It's not a ratio as such, but it does tell you how many inches larger the fullest portion of the bra has to be. So yeah, a "C" average would indicate that women, on average, have breasts with approximately a 3" larger circumference then their torso.

Of course, there's a good number of women who don't know how to find a fitting bra, which can be an issue (and lead to a lot of discomfort), so I often wonder where the numbers are coming from.

Though, isn't there a thing that goes "plus or minus a bit if the designers feel like making it confusing" in there somewhere?

 

[Tsun Tzu]

I'm not and haven't exactly been selective when it comes to the size of my romantic partners' chest-borne assets and have experience with a wide range, so I guess you could say I don't really have a horse in this race.

Essentially:

#AllBoobsMatter

My family's women-folk seem to be bustier than the average so it's not really something I've noticed as being out of place in media, unless it's those "That's no moon!" size you occasionally see in hentai or whatever. That stuff isn't really appealing.

But I know girls with EEs (maybe Fs, honestly), DDs, and A cups. Most of whom are fit.

If she's attractive to me then her chest is, at most, a secondary or tertiary characteristic. Her tits are only part of the overall package and, frankly, I'm not going to be looking into her tits while we spoon.

All the time anyway.

...Unless you're like...heavily into...I'll say "paizuri" to be a bit less crude about it. Then I can see a definite problem with smaller breasts.

As for DoA's latest incarnation? They don't look that far outside of the norm or possiblity. Like, at all.

 

[wolfyrik]

I'm not and haven't exactly been selective when it comes to the size of my romantic partners' chest-borne assets and have experience with a wide range, so I guess you could say I don't really have a horse in this race.

Essentially:

#AllBoobsMatter

My family's women-folk seem to be bustier than the average so it's not really something I've noticed as being out of place in media, unless it's those "That's no moon!" size you occasionally see in hentai or whatever. That stuff isn't really appealing.

But I know girls with EEs (maybe Fs, honestly), DDs, and A cups. Most of whom are fit.

If she's attractive to me then her chest is, at most, a secondary or tertiary characteristic. Her tits are only part of the overall package and, frankly, I'm not going to be looking into her tits while we spoon.

All the time anyway.

...Unless you're like...heavily into...I'll say "paizuri" to be a bit less crude about it. Then I can see a definite problem with smaller breasts.

As for DoA's latest incarnation? They don't look that far outside of the norm or possiblity. Like, at all.

This, in my experience, is how most straight/bi men actually feel. It seems that the less of a deal is made about boobs in a culture, the less taboo or sexualised they are, the less they matter to men and women. There are plenty of cultures where women don't cover their breasts at all and men don't see the breasts in a sexual way. Instead they're just a feature, like your nose or eyes. The western problem with boobs I suspect is because of religious prudism. MLike most things wrong with our society, it's likely the Victorians fault.For example, a period of medieval fashion which isn't readily replicated in re-enactment or renaissance fayres, saw the bust-line on dresses cut to just above the nipple. Aureoles peeping over the top on display. Something not seen again til the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

It's a stark and bizarre contrast to modern sensibilities where a woman can have a bikini which literally covers her nipple and aureoles and this is acceptable, but if a woman shows her actual nipple, even just to feed her baby, there's an outcry of rage and horror.

We've gotten pretty confused up as a society.

 

[infohippie]

It makes me despise, and scornful of, the people who WANT to shame anyone for liking the female body.

Boobs of all different kinds are great. I'm a big fan of them, from enormous to nearly flat. As someone above me said, it depends on the person (or game character) and what looks good on them specifically. I don't like games where all female characters are given huge tits just because, but if a character design works well with big boobs, or with tiny ones, I see nothing wrong in liking them for what they are.

The problem is when people treat the female body as if it's a sports car or something, and that's the uncomfortable feeling I get from threads like these.

True, it is not the nicest to view a woman as a collection of curves. However, men like to look at a pretty girl and always will. So long as your interaction with women is treating them as a person and not eye candy, I think there is nothing wrong with appreciating the female form.

 

[wolfyrik]

It makes me despise, and scornful of, the people who WANT to shame anyone for liking the female body.

Boobs of all different kinds are great. I'm a big fan of them, from enormous to nearly flat. As someone above me said, it depends on the person (or game character) and what looks good on them specifically. I don't like games where all female characters are given huge tits just because, but if a character design works well with big boobs, or with tiny ones, I see nothing wrong in liking them for what they are.

The problem is when people treat the female body as if it's a sports car or something, and that's the uncomfortable feeling I get from threads like these.

True, it is not the nicest to view a woman as a collection of curves. However, men like to look at a pretty girl and always will. So long as your interaction with women is treating them as a person and not eye candy, I think there is nothing wrong with appreciating the female form.

Agreed and this goes both ways. Women are rarely afraid to comment on a man's build and appearence, right down to their *ahem* pysical attributes. Appreciation of form is perfectly healthy and normal for all genders and most sexualities (within reason ie Jimmy Saville not so normal or healthy), it's how we treat each other beyond that, which counts.

 

[Dizchu]

True, it is not the nicest to view a woman as a collection of curves. However, men like to look at a pretty girl and always will. So long as your interaction with women is treating them as a person and not eye candy, I think there is nothing wrong with appreciating the female form.

Well of course, I appreciate the female form too. I also appreciate exaggerations of the female form (I mean even things like makeup are meant to exaggerate facial features). But the problem is when people like OP base their attitudes on these exaggerations and idealisations instead of real people.

 

[NPC009]

I've already seen bodyfat and bra sizes addressed, but I'd like to add this: many bras come with build-in lies. For cup sizes A and B, it's not uncommon to see a fair amount of padding, making the breasts look one, or even two, sizes larger. Even bras in larger sizes may have some padding, because this helps give the breasts a nice shape and hides the nipples. Basically, the padding makes everything look smooth when you're wearing thin clothes such as t-shirts. And yes, it makes the breasts look bigger as well. And that's just basic padding. There are many more ways to make breasts look bigger. Smaller, too, actually. Specialty stores sell bras that can make your breasts look a size smaller. These minimizer bras are great if your breasts are so large they throw off your proportions and/or you don't want the attention that comes with large breasts.

As for what's average, that's actually pretty easy to find out: look at what big brands sell. Many big brands stop at C or D cups for smaller band sizes. If you're a 32D or 34E (which would be similar to or smaller than what many consider average on a videogame character), you can forget about buying bras at H&M, for instance. Oh, and good luck finding something with a nice colour or fun pattern. Most larger sizes stick to the basic white, light brown ("skin colour") and black.

In any case, there's nothing wrong with liking big breasts. However, it's a bad idea to let the media twist your idea of average. You'll only end up disappointed.

 

[Dazzle Novak]

Don't you guys get sick of these types of threads?

White, heterosexual gamers are an endangered demographic; "neckbeard" is the most harmful N-word in the English language; and now "loving big tits" warrants a family meeting to come out of the closet over. For such confident "sex positive" people, you sure are seeking a ton of approval from peers and the strawman Puritans largely residing in your heads.

OP, you don't need to die on every hill. Either you're happy with yourself or you're not.

 

[Lilani]

Don't you guys get sick of these types of threads?

White, heterosexual gamers are an endangered demographic; "neckbeard" is the most harmful N-word in the English language; and now "loving big tits" warrants a family meeting to come out of the closet over. For such confident "sex positive" people, you sure are seeking a ton of approval from peers and the strawman Puritans largely residing in your heads.

OP, you don't need to die on every hill. Either you're happy with yourself or you're not.

I think you are very correct in that people should be comfortable with and accept the things which they find attractive, and that in general we need to not make assumptions based on how people treat those of the opposite sex based solely on what physical features they find attractive.

But the way the OP presented their problem, it seems they have a very skewed image of what most women's breasts look like, in both size and shape. As NCP009 up there said, there's nothing wrong with big breasts, but if you've been lead to believe most non-obese women are C and D cups, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Plus that means your knowledge of breasts comes from the media as opposed to reality, which is not a good head space to reside in. Enjoy whatever exaggerated breasts you want, but keep one foot firmly grounded in reality, and understand why many people find it distressing when the media is setting the standard for how breasts do and should look.

 

[Beliyal]

But the way the OP presented their problem, it seems they have a very skewed image of what most women's breasts look like, in both size and shape. As NCP009 up there said, there's nothing wrong with big breasts, but if you've been lead to believe most non-obese women are C and D cups, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Plus that means your knowledge of breasts comes from the media as opposed to reality, which is not a good head space to reside in. Enjoy whatever exaggerated breasts you want, but keep one foot firmly grounded in reality, and understand why many people find it distressing when the media is setting the standard for how breasts do and should look.

I'd also like to add that I find this obsession with cups really weird because most people (a lot of women too) really have no idea what " cup" mean. Like, a lot of men will hear "D cup" and immediately imagine something that could not further from reality because the whole thing with cups is that they are really complicated and have an incredible amount of variety.

[Sort of NSFW]This [http://www.brabandproject.com/] is a really cool site that may adjust the views people have of cups and what they really mean. The mere fact that a D cup is involved does not mean we're talking about large breasts; the number (band size) is even more important and cups will vary with it. Also, as NPC009 said, bras are specifically made to alter the look of breasts in order to fit the clothing or shape, so until the lady takes off everything, you won't know what you're dealing with. Speaking of that...
[NSFW]This [http://www.007b.com/] site is a sort of a gallery of "normal" breasts; as in, just pictures of boobs sent by a variety of women that haven't been photoshopped or squeezed into push-ups or otherwise enhanced. The point of the site is to show the incredible variety of what normal breasts can look like. Not to say that boobs in magazines and video games aren't normal, but the image people have of "what breasts should look like and nothing else is good" has been majorly skewed by the media. Also, most of these probably look entirely different while the woman is wearing a bra and good clothes.

OP, big boobs are cool. All boobs are. Of course we shouldn't shame people who love big boobs and we aren't doing it, although there are some prejudices about big boob lovers (actually, most of the shaming affects actual women with big boobs who struggle with certain nasty assumptions such as that they are sluts or always available for ogling, as well as inability to find proper bras and clothing, appearing "unprofessional" and other bullshit). The problem is that, as those two websites might tell you, people have some really skewed perception on what breasts actually look like outside of some relatively rare examples. Also, I really do believe you've been tricked by bras and good clothing choices to think that most women around you have large breasts. I mean, I have small boobs and can make them look pretty large with a good bra, good clothing that emphasizes the shape and favorable lighting and position. It's possible you were just that lucky, but unless you've seen all these women naked, you'll never know if you're right.

 

[Something Amyss]

Though, isn't there a thing that goes "plus or minus a bit if the designers feel like making it confusing" in there somewhere?

Actually, it's probably more than a bit. Women's clothing has a huge amount of size variance between labels/brands/cuts, so this is a pretty big deal. It's also a big deal when you're tall and fat and mostly have to order men's clothing in the first place. Not that I would know anything about that.

And if you look up bras on a site like Amazon, you will often find people complaining that the fit is horrible, even though they always wear (number (letter) bras, so yeah, it's probably relevant here.

I was just elaborating on what another poster had said about the way the measurements work, and the general rule is what I mentioned. Band size is torso (usually right below the breast), cup size is the difference between fullest part of breast and band size in an inches/letter thing. And even if there weren't variance between labels, I imagine this would still be a rough thing.

And even then, I'm told it works a little different in Europe, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was at least somewhat different elsewhere, too, but it seems to follow a similar measurement setup.

But it is a point you made:

The point I made had nothing to do with what Lara was trying to be.

Definitely a misunderstanding. I've never accused you of anything.

Okay, so when you started in on the double standard of how we're okay with blank slate men, that was just...an incidental point in the midst of your response to me?

I don't believe you.

 

[NPC009]

There's nothing wrong with liking big breasts (in this case I'll say D and above) or butts or anything. The issue as I understand it is that there's not much variety and people are capable of liking more than just big breasts, butts ext.

Bigger is not always better as it were and people have different tastes, so if your softcore porn only features a single body type, because that's all you think people will buy, you're missing out on some potential paying customers.

(For the record, "you" is not directed at anyone specifically, and my phrasing of "softcore porn" is not specifically reffering to DoA)

D is actually the overall average. I dunno if that's just for this country or worldwide, but there ya go.

Source? Many (international!) brands barely have any Ds, so that seems very unlikely. If D were average, you'd expect to bras in cup sizes D and up to be more easily available.

 

[Lilani]

There's nothing wrong with liking big breasts (in this case I'll say D and above) or butts or anything. The issue as I understand it is that there's not much variety and people are capable of liking more than just big breasts, butts ext.

Bigger is not always better as it were and people have different tastes, so if your softcore porn only features a single body type, because that's all you think people will buy, you're missing out on some potential paying customers.

(For the record, "you" is not directed at anyone specifically, and my phrasing of "softcore porn" is not specifically reffering to DoA)

D is actually the overall average. I dunno if that's just for this country or worldwide, but there ya go.

D is the average in the UK, C-D is the average in the US depending on who you ask. BUT, these are very recent developments. Just a few decades ago, the average was roughly B in both of these countries. This sudden shift upwards can possibly be attributed to two things: breast augmentation, and the rise of obesity.

 

[Something Amyss]

Most larger sizes stick to the basic white, light brown ("skin colour") and black.

Rarely am I happier to be a fan of basic black.

Come to think of it, the only colour I'm wearing is my glasses.

I think you are very correct in that people should be comfortable with and accept the things which they find attractive, and that in general we need to not make assumptions based on how people treat those of the opposite sex based solely on what physical features they find attractive.

But the way the OP presented their problem, it seems they have a very skewed image of what most women's breasts look like, in both size and shape. As NCP009 up there said, there's nothing wrong with big breasts, but if you've been lead to believe most non-obese women are C and D cups, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Plus that means your knowledge of breasts comes from the media as opposed to reality, which is not a good head space to reside in. Enjoy whatever exaggerated breasts you want, but keep one foot firmly grounded in reality, and understand why many people find it distressing when the media is setting the standard for how breasts do and should look.

Especially when people start to judge reality based on media. This site's had quite a few complaints about women not meeting the standards of anime/game girls. Unsurprising, given the proportions anime/game girls can have. No just in breasts, either.

 

[Something Amyss]

Yes, it was.

Unless you're actually the person, and the only person, responsible for the Lara reboot.

In that case, yes, it was directed at you.

Except that comment had no apparent relation to the developers. You were complaining about the way we receive such characters.

Just to be clear: you are aware I can go back and verify your words, right? Why do you think I'm going to fall for you changing your story with every new post?