Bureaucracy-Em-Up

[Rosiv]

Very big of you to apologize, but I honestly wasn't offended. I got the point you were trying to come across and your statement felt more offensive to the person in denial than the pre-op transgender person. Anyway, I'm just glad that someone is willing to be caring and sympathetic to all kinds of people.

enforcing gender roles by implying that trans-women aren't women.

Except you know they aren't women. They are men who have decided to mutilate themselves for whatever sick reasons. But hey let us not let facts get in the way of a good public attack on someone.

I mean this from the bottom of my heart.

I hope you die in a fire.

And here ladies, gentlemen, and flying spaghetti monsters the proof of what I said earlier that the views of tolerance for all these people spout is only so long as you agree 100% with them and there flawed logic. Thank you for helping me prove most (certainly not all) people like you who claim everyone need to be tolerant of others are in fact nothing more than hypocrites and are the first to cast stones and attacks against those who do not agree or serve your views.

Thank you for even showing in back to back posts the hypocrisy. In one glad someone is caring and sympathetic to all people. In the next threatening me for no damn reason other than not wanting to agree with facts because as facts show no matter what you do to yourself you are still of XY chromosomes and were still born with a penis even if you did chop it off. As such you are a man no matter what you try to change outwardly about yourself facts are facts and to attack someone for not being blinded by political correctness BS and telling things how they are is downright laughable. Same as could glue wings to my back and antennae on my head and my friend could dress as a cat all day. But that does not make me a bug nor my friend a cat. We are what we are from the time we are born and no amount of superficial modifications for strange and honestly downright freaky maybe deviant reasons will change that.

It WILL change the instance though. For the terms man and women are too vague to be only defined by the biological lens. I mean, the term biologically man / women is really too loaded anyways to use properly. It conotates too much info. A proper term would be a person with XY or XX as you stated, but chromosomes dont really dictate manhood or womanhood anymore. We have ways of changing our appearance, so that our phenotype isnt a issue. In a way, its almost like changing our phenotype really, since the chromosomes are responsible for the hormone production, and thats the root of what makes someone a man or a women.

As for your cat analogy, its not really on par. A cat and a human are vastly different, cats cant talk, cats dont have rights, cats are like 1/5 the size of humans. So a person could never really approximate a cat with out some sort of miracle surgery that doesnt exist yet. And even if they could, they would still have the advanced human brain, that a cat lacks. As for a difference between males and female brains, there arent alot, for alot of things men can do, women can too. So a shift from one to the other is a bit more realistic. There will be the issue of passing, but i mean there are ugly women and ugly men, there arent any talking, walking cats...

In closing, its not really political correctness, but just context that should be looked at. A tree isnt a tree forever, sometimes we turn them into chairs, or pencils, and when i use a pencil, i dont say im using a tree. Things like this can change for the most part.

And off topic again, but i think the main reason Yahtzee apologized was because there was a fuss about it, and i assumed he read it, and it seemed to be legitimate. If you were part of a minority that was offended too, i guess you could complain about that in his next video if he makes a joke, but you would need a notable portion complaining i guess, as per the transgender joke.

The guy just wants to keep his job and be liked. I want him to stay on too, cause he's good at it. No one likes a bigot, which is seen contemporarlly as someone anti-LGBT, regardless of if it is true.

 

[Plunkies]

What's even more irritating than the men in dresses wanting special comedic immunity, is Yahtzee himself.

Here's a guy whose primary interests and occupation are all entirely dependent on creativity and freedom of expression. Comedy, journalism video games. The very reason we know who he is, and the reason he built a fanbase, is because he spewed vitriol with complete disregard of what other people wanted or expected him to say. His entire persona is predicated on his ability to be an offensive asshole. To have him then pander to one small minority after insulting so many people for so long shows zero self awareness, and makes you wonder where his backbone went. I'd have to assume the escapist pressured him. Either that or he's just lost his mind.

 

[Piecewise]

snip

Yeah, sorry but no. He made a holocaust joke as well, and there was nary a peep about that. Either nothing is exempt from comedy, or everything is.

Do you really find "all or nothing" to be rational? Because if you do, I've got to assume you're a kid, because I've only heard kids try to reason like that. That's not an attempt to insult you, but to say that this kind of thinking is immature as fuck.

And isn't the point of comedy to speak truth to power? Or do you find it funny to abuse the abused? If that's the case, you must find reading about injustices that occur in the world hilarious. If people are hurt by a thing, just because it was supposed to be funny doesn't make it excusable.

Also, with regards to the Holocaust thing, unless that was recently, there's all kinds of differences in viewership and cultural direction to consider.

Dear small percentage of the LGBT community that apparently lacks the concept of what humor is.

Calm the fuck down. You know what makes accepting people who are different from what is considered to be the norm easier? A lack of fear that you're gonna flip your shit if we mention facts about you.

Did you know that pre-op Female transexuals have penises? Allow me to make a joke relating to that fact.

WHAT?! HOW DARE YOU FIND ANY ASPECT OF LIFE FUNNY! YOU CAN MAKE FUN OF YOURSELF, YOUR GOVERNMENT, RELIGION, ETHICS, MORALITY, MURDER, DEATH, MENTAL ILLNESS AND EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE WHOLE DAMN WORLD, BUT YOU LEAVE MY PENIS OUT OF THIS!

Yeah, ok.


Honestly, some people are getting more fucking knee jerk about this then Muslim extremists get about danish cartoons.


Now if you don't mind, I'm gonna go draw the Prophet Mohammed as a pre-op transexual having gay sex on a burning American flag, just to see what kind of levels of butthurt can be generated.

"I'm not apart of this community so I can dictate to you what is funny and what isn't!" Please shut the hell up. Maybe transsexual people don't want to be the butt of your fucking jokes and it's fair for them to get angry and say something. Is it astonishing to see that a group of people who have reliably been made a joke of, put down, harassed, and murdered got mad when someone made a joke about sex with one of them?

Now I'm gonna have the transgender prophet Mohammed having sex with gay nazi Jesus Hitler.

Also no. Not gonna shut up. Learn to fucking deal with it. Everyone gets made fun of. Suck it up.

 

[Abomination]

As for your cat analogy, its not really on par. A cat and a human are vastly different, cats cant talk, cats dont have rights, cats are like 1/5 the size of humans. So a person could never really approximate a cat with out some sort of miracle surgery that doesnt exist yet. [snip]

A tree isnt a tree forever, sometimes we turn them into chairs, or pencils, and when i use a pencil, i dont say im using a tree. Things like this can change for the most part.

Strange comparison.

Yes, a tree can be changed into a chair, a pencil, a plank for a house... but it'll always be wood and it'll always be the same type of wood no matter how much you cut it, sand it or treat it. It can change to suit different functions, much like how humans can change and evolve to fill different roles... but they'll always be the sex or ethnicity they were born as, no matter how much you cut or treat it.

Chromosomes do not dictate manhood or womanhood, that's correct... but they do dictate sex.

 

[LysanderNemoinis]

Well said, Faith Meade, show your hatred of intolerance by being intolerant and wishing death on a person because of their beliefs. What the person you hoped "dies in a fire" said wasn't wrong. I mean, if I dyed my skin orange and my hair green, and had surgery to put ridges and lines all along my body, because I firmly believed I was a carrot, or a carrot trapped in a man's body, people would say I was crazy. Yet anybody who finds it strange that a man would self-mutilate and cut off parts of his own body, the person who wonders about the self-mutilator's mental state is the one with problems.

Everybody made fun of Michael Jackson (and rightly so) when he literally bleached himself and through cosmetic surgery turned himself into a complete and total freak of nature, but if he had instead cut off his genitals and got implants and hormones, those same people wouldn't bat an eyelash at it. And that's what I don't understand: How one person getting surgery to change their body for no reason is normal and people around them should drop to their knees to praise said person for their "bravery" and yet another person is thought to be nuts.

 

[Abomination]

Where have I said this was offensive? I said it was abusrd.

You do know what being offended means, right?

Well, you certainly seem offended.

Note that I didn't say you said it was offensive, I said you SEEMED offended, i.e. "upset, displeased, and angry".

Really?

Why ARE you so offended that the joke was changed? You should probably calm down and stop being so thin-skinned.

So yes, I would have to had said I found it offensive for you to be certain I was offended by something.

But you know, keep trying to paint me as a hypocrite here. It's a good effort, at least, but doomed to fail.

 

[LysanderNemoinis]

I didn't see what was wrong with the joke in the first place, but whatever.

Look on the bright side, at least now we know that if we cry and stamp our feet enough we can get The Escapist to change or remove parts of their videos.

I wonder how one could get the people who cant live without being offended to whine and moan about the lazy editing on Bob's videos when he just goes in and out of his bostonian accent annoyingly.

OT: -100 respect for Yahtzee. I thought he was above caving to those who whine about a small word choice.

Nope. When you're dealing with very leftist people who think they're so very edgy, they're actually the most boxed-in and politically correct. So if you want to hear him bash America, southerners, whites, Christians, anybody with money, people in the military, businessmen, etc., then I'm sure you'll be happy to know he'll never cave on those jokes. But against anyone else...expect more video censorship in the future.

 

[Plunkies]

Jesus people, clue in. Yahtzee didn't apologize for the joke, he apologized for the unintentional stereo-typing in his writing of the joke. He apologized because he was being a lazy writer, not a critical writer, which, if you people haven't clued in.. is what he does and takes pride in. It's not at all surprising that he apologized for this. What *is* surprising is the number of you yahoos who think he "caved" to any sort of pressure. It should be pretty apparent from what he reviews.. or more specifically.. what he avoids reviewing.. the caving to pressure isn't what he does.

It wasn't lazy wording, that's just an excuse for him to backpedal after someone complained. The joke made perfect sense and was completely in context.

"but I realise now that this was a poor choice of words, because some people who identify as female have cocks."

In other words, 'I'm apologizing because a dude with a dick calls himself a lady and got offended.' You seriously think he went back over the video after he put it out and decided this weak joke was actually better?

"I'm not gay, I only suck off pantomime dames."

Of course not. That joke is a perfect example of why we all suffer from unnecessary censorship and phony outrage from hypocrites.

 

[CBanana]

I think the problem with the original joke wasn't that it's offensive but the problem being that it was conveying a view of the world that Yahtzee doesn't have. My guess is Yahtzee doesn't mind being offensive but he does mind being misrepresented.

It also feels surprising to me that there's people who are skeptical of transsexuality. There's actually a fair amount of science supporting transsexuality:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2754583/

 

[LysanderNemoinis]

I think the problem with the original joke wasn't that it's offensive but the problem being that it was conveying a view of the world that Yahtzee doesn't have. My guess is Yahtzee doesn't mind being offensive but he does mind being misrepresented.

It also feels surprising to me that there's people who are skeptical of transsexuality. There's actually a fair amount of science supporting transsexuality:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2754583/

But if you also study the brains of mental patients, especially those that think they're someone else, you'll find similar results. Like the guy in my old neighborhood who was absolutely convinced he was Napoleon Bonaparte, and was put in a mental institution by his family. Everyone knew he was nuttier than squirrel crap, but if he went around telling people he was really a woman and wanted surgery to pretend to become one, you're saying that would be normal?

 

[CBanana]

But if you also study the brains of mental patients, especially those that think they're someone else, you'll find similar results. Like the guy in my old neighborhood who was absolutely convinced he was Napoleon Bonaparte, and was put in a mental institution by his family. Everyone knew he was nuttier than squirrel crap, but if he went around telling people he was really a woman and wanted surgery to pretend to become one, you're saying that would be normal?

Considering that transgenderism can often be identified in very young kids, it's extremely unlikely that they're suffering from a mental disorder that's typically found with adults. Mind you, it would help if I knew more about what you were talking about by providing a source/reference from a credible, professional, and reasonably unbiased site.

 

[Godhead]

"It's like forcing a public figure to resign because they used the word 'niggardly'."

Oh come on nobody actually uses that word except when they want to say something that sounds like ******.

I think that's an over generalization, sometimes niggardly is one of the best words to use in a certain context. Also somebody was fired for saying niggardly, because people didn't understand what it meant which is in no way the fault of his own.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/williams/williams020499.htm

OT: It can be a very fine line that one treads when they apologize to people about a joke. I think Yahtzee did a find job making a kind and thoughtful response to those who were offended without apologizing for the joke.

 

[Turbo_ski]

Thank you the apology Yahtzee. As a transsexual myself, I'm just glad you had the integrity to recognize your mistake and apologize. I completely understand the perspective of Papers, Please, but it felt like you were transbashing in some way with the transsexual joke in the Brother's part. Especially with transgender being a really hot button topic in the media at the moment with California's school bill and Bradley Manning coming out as Chelsea Manning. All in one week in addition to 3 transgender hate crimes that ended in murder.

Thank you for addressing it and apologizing.

 

[Plunkies]

Considering that transgenderism can often be identified in very young kids, it's extremely unlikely that they're suffering from a mental disorder that's typically found with adults. Mind you, it would help if I knew more about what you were talking about by providing a source/reference from a credible, professional, and reasonably unbiased site.

The paper you posted says transgenderism is a mental disorder. If you're saying someone thinking they're a different person is a mental disorder and someone thinking they're a different gender isn't a mental disorder, what are you basing that on?

Also, stating children don't suffer from mental disorders is talking out of your ass. That's completely untrue.

Your original post doesn't even make sense. "People are skeptical of transsexuality?" No they aren't. No one is saying they don't exist. What exactly was your original point?

 

[Turbo_ski]

Meh, people getting upset over jokes again, a bit dissapointed to see Yahtzee stepping down to apoligigise though. really, it just seems weird for asking forgiveness for cracking a joke, btu whatever, everything you're going to say is going to upset someone, so whatever.

The current social and political landscape in America is very hostile against transgenders because of the California "bathroom" bill and Chelsea (Bradley) Manning seeking hormone therapy in prison. There have been 3 murders of transwomen in just this last week, and obscene amount murder this past summer. Keep in mine we have a very very small population, so this many killings is proportionally as troubling the genocide of Jews in WWII. In the same fashion, it would have been seen as very poor taste to make Jew jokes during WWII, just as it is now in poor taste to make transgender jokes. The main difference is that because we're so small of a population we lack positive visibility in media and every bad stereotype leads to more very real discrimination.

I'm really glad Yahtzee apologized and explained his fault in the matter with integrity. Very few people in this world do that anymore.

 

[DerangedHobo]

I appreciate what Yahtzee is trying to do here, I really do, but why is he apologizing?
You set kittens on fire, you apologize, you shit in someone's oat meal, you apologize.
Someone misinterprets a joke? Someone gets irate because you use a 'bad word'? Nah, fuck them. You don't apologize then, you explain yourself and let them do whatever they want with it.

I should probably preface this by saying I'm bisexual but I feel that apologizing for something that wasn't your fault or using the word 'tranny' (seriously, when did that word become akin to '******'?) is giving credence to the idea that people can dictate what words you use and that they are justified in taking what you say out of context and censoring you.

Not to go on a tirade but last time I checked transgendered in the western world weren't exactly being flogged in the street (unless you live in Russia, which is kinda ironic given current events and the game's setting). I may be talking from a privileged position because I have never been subject to homophobic bullying but as someone who likes to cross dress I don't see why any LGBT or sexist joke calls for a knee jerk reaction. That's the thing about words, it's context based, irregardless of the connotations it's all about the context and you being offended does not give you the right to censor them or completely ignore their context. There was no malice behind what Yahtzee said in the first place so even if the joke was objectively offensive there was no hatred behind it.

 

[Turbo_ski]

Considering that transgenderism can often be identified in very young kids, it's extremely unlikely that they're suffering from a mental disorder that's typically found with adults. Mind you, it would help if I knew more about what you were talking about by providing a source/reference from a credible, professional, and reasonably unbiased site.

The paper you posted says transgenderism is a mental disorder. If you're saying someone thinking they're a different person is a mental disorder and someone thinking they're a different gender isn't a mental disorder, what are you basing that on?

Also, stating children don't suffer from mental disorders is talking out of your ass. That's completely untrue.

Your original post doesn't even make sense. "People are skeptical of transsexuality?" No they aren't. No one is saying they don't exist. What exactly was your original point?

The American Psychiatric Association revised their manual and stance on it not being a disorder anymore. They state that it has been found to be a condition that naturally occurs and thusly can't be medically classified as a disorder.
Here is a reference link to that fact: http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/12/03/1271431/apa-revises-manual-being-transgender-is-no-longer-a-mental-disorder/

Children do suffer from mental disorders, but gender dysphoria isn't a mental disorder. We don't even know what exactly causes it, but we know that it has existed consistently since very early civilizations.

There are plenty of people that are skeptical of transgenderism, but they tend to be extreme religious fundamentallists and people with believe the numerous false stereotypes that is typical in widespread media.

 

[Turbo_ski]

Well I have to say I'm disappointed in Yahtzee. It was a joke, having to apologize for that is silly, and actually apologizing for it is just pathetic.

Not to even mention the fact that "transgender" is not even a real thing, but a figment of someone's imagination. Until someone shows some scientific proof that "transgender" exists it's about as real as Santa Claus/God. Before that, men are born with XY chromosomes and male genitalia, women with XX and female genitalia. Putting on a pwetty sundress doesn't magically turn you into a female, much like claiming I'm actually a sea bass trapped in a human's body doesn't mean I can breath underwater.

0.3% of American adults in 2011 were estimated to transgender (or at least openly so). Population of the whole US in 2011 was 311.6 million. That's 93.5 million adult transgender people in America in 2011. The are even many 4 year olds who openly identify as being the opposite gender to their sex. Look up a little transgirl named Jazz, who happens to have and identical twin brother who doesn't identify as trans. Transgenders clearly exist, and you choosing to be blind to that doesn't change the fact that they exist.

 

[DerangedHobo]

Well I have to say I'm disappointed in Yahtzee. It was a joke, having to apologize for that is silly, and actually apologizing for it is just pathetic.

Not to even mention the fact that "transgender" is not even a real thing, but a figment of someone's imagination. Until someone shows some scientific proof that "transgender" exists it's about as real as Santa Claus/God. Before that, men are born with XY chromosomes and male genitalia, women with XX and female genitalia. Putting on a pwetty sundress doesn't magically turn you into a female, much like claiming I'm actually a sea bass trapped in a human's body doesn't mean I can breath underwater.

0.3% of American adults in 2011 were estimated to transgender (or at least openly so). Population of the whole US in 2011 was 311.6 million. That's 93.5 million adult transgender people in America in 2011. The are even many 4 year olds who openly identify as being the opposite gender to their sex. Look up a little transgirl named Jazz, who happens to have and identical twin brother who doesn't identify as trans. Transgenders clearly exist, and you choosing to be blind to that doesn't change the fact that they exist.

I think your math is a little bit off, 0.3% of 311.6 million is not 93.5 million and even if there were 93.5 million transgendered then what the fuck? That's 1 in 3 people, that's a stupid amount and if there were that much they certainly wouldn't be some low minority.

And there's another can of worms to open, 4 year old's can't be expected to make life decisions, did you know what you wanted to be at 4 years old? I certainly didn't and allowing your child to dress up like a girl when their gender is otherwise is a good way to get their teeth knocked out. They can make up their mind what gender they are when they're an adult not when they're 4 years old, you can't point to a 4 year old as reliable evidence to back up your claims. I mean I believe that transgendered people exist but if I was trying to defend them I wouldn't point to a 4 year old, not to strawman your argument but that's like pointing to someone who identifies as someone who can fly and saying 'well I guess they exist!'.

 

[Miroluck]

snip

0.3% of American adults in 2011 were estimated to transgender (or at least openly so). Population of the whole US in 2011 was 311.6 million. That's 93.5 million adult transgender people in America in 2011.

Sorry, but you have messed up your arithmetics a little.

311.6 million = 311,600,000
0.3% = 0.003
93.5 million = 93,500,000

(934,800 = 0.934800 million)

311,600,000 * 0.003 = 934,800
311.6 million * 0.3% = 0.934800 million.

It's not 93.5 million at all.

93,500,000 / 934,800 ~ 100 - so you was off by 100 times.