Bureaucracy-Em-Up

[LysanderNemoinis]

I didn't see what was wrong with the joke in the first place, but whatever.

Look on the bright side, at least now we know that if we cry and stamp our feet enough we can get The Escapist to change or remove parts of their videos.

I wonder how one could get the people who cant live without being offended to whine and moan about the lazy editing on Bob's videos when he just goes in and out of his bostonian accent annoyingly.

OT: -100 respect for Yahtzee. I thought he was above caving to those who whine about a small word choice.

Nope. When you're dealing with very leftist people who think they're so very edgy, they're actually the most boxed-in and politically correct. So if you want to hear him bash America, southerners, whites, Christians, anybody with money, people in the military, businessmen, etc., then I'm sure you'll be happy to know he'll never cave on those jokes. But against anyone else...expect more video censorship in the future.

 

[Plunkies]

Jesus people, clue in. Yahtzee didn't apologize for the joke, he apologized for the unintentional stereo-typing in his writing of the joke. He apologized because he was being a lazy writer, not a critical writer, which, if you people haven't clued in.. is what he does and takes pride in. It's not at all surprising that he apologized for this. What *is* surprising is the number of you yahoos who think he "caved" to any sort of pressure. It should be pretty apparent from what he reviews.. or more specifically.. what he avoids reviewing.. the caving to pressure isn't what he does.

It wasn't lazy wording, that's just an excuse for him to backpedal after someone complained. The joke made perfect sense and was completely in context.

"but I realise now that this was a poor choice of words, because some people who identify as female have cocks."

In other words, 'I'm apologizing because a dude with a dick calls himself a lady and got offended.' You seriously think he went back over the video after he put it out and decided this weak joke was actually better?

"I'm not gay, I only suck off pantomime dames."

Of course not. That joke is a perfect example of why we all suffer from unnecessary censorship and phony outrage from hypocrites.

 

[CBanana]

I think the problem with the original joke wasn't that it's offensive but the problem being that it was conveying a view of the world that Yahtzee doesn't have. My guess is Yahtzee doesn't mind being offensive but he does mind being misrepresented.

It also feels surprising to me that there's people who are skeptical of transsexuality. There's actually a fair amount of science supporting transsexuality:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2754583/

 

[LysanderNemoinis]

I think the problem with the original joke wasn't that it's offensive but the problem being that it was conveying a view of the world that Yahtzee doesn't have. My guess is Yahtzee doesn't mind being offensive but he does mind being misrepresented.

It also feels surprising to me that there's people who are skeptical of transsexuality. There's actually a fair amount of science supporting transsexuality:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2754583/

But if you also study the brains of mental patients, especially those that think they're someone else, you'll find similar results. Like the guy in my old neighborhood who was absolutely convinced he was Napoleon Bonaparte, and was put in a mental institution by his family. Everyone knew he was nuttier than squirrel crap, but if he went around telling people he was really a woman and wanted surgery to pretend to become one, you're saying that would be normal?

 

[CBanana]

But if you also study the brains of mental patients, especially those that think they're someone else, you'll find similar results. Like the guy in my old neighborhood who was absolutely convinced he was Napoleon Bonaparte, and was put in a mental institution by his family. Everyone knew he was nuttier than squirrel crap, but if he went around telling people he was really a woman and wanted surgery to pretend to become one, you're saying that would be normal?

Considering that transgenderism can often be identified in very young kids, it's extremely unlikely that they're suffering from a mental disorder that's typically found with adults. Mind you, it would help if I knew more about what you were talking about by providing a source/reference from a credible, professional, and reasonably unbiased site.

 

[Godhead]

"It's like forcing a public figure to resign because they used the word 'niggardly'."

Oh come on nobody actually uses that word except when they want to say something that sounds like ******.

I think that's an over generalization, sometimes niggardly is one of the best words to use in a certain context. Also somebody was fired for saying niggardly, because people didn't understand what it meant which is in no way the fault of his own.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/williams/williams020499.htm

OT: It can be a very fine line that one treads when they apologize to people about a joke. I think Yahtzee did a find job making a kind and thoughtful response to those who were offended without apologizing for the joke.

 

[Turbo_ski]

Thank you the apology Yahtzee. As a transsexual myself, I'm just glad you had the integrity to recognize your mistake and apologize. I completely understand the perspective of Papers, Please, but it felt like you were transbashing in some way with the transsexual joke in the Brother's part. Especially with transgender being a really hot button topic in the media at the moment with California's school bill and Bradley Manning coming out as Chelsea Manning. All in one week in addition to 3 transgender hate crimes that ended in murder.

Thank you for addressing it and apologizing.

 

[Plunkies]

Considering that transgenderism can often be identified in very young kids, it's extremely unlikely that they're suffering from a mental disorder that's typically found with adults. Mind you, it would help if I knew more about what you were talking about by providing a source/reference from a credible, professional, and reasonably unbiased site.

The paper you posted says transgenderism is a mental disorder. If you're saying someone thinking they're a different person is a mental disorder and someone thinking they're a different gender isn't a mental disorder, what are you basing that on?

Also, stating children don't suffer from mental disorders is talking out of your ass. That's completely untrue.

Your original post doesn't even make sense. "People are skeptical of transsexuality?" No they aren't. No one is saying they don't exist. What exactly was your original point?

 

[Turbo_ski]

Meh, people getting upset over jokes again, a bit dissapointed to see Yahtzee stepping down to apoligigise though. really, it just seems weird for asking forgiveness for cracking a joke, btu whatever, everything you're going to say is going to upset someone, so whatever.

The current social and political landscape in America is very hostile against transgenders because of the California "bathroom" bill and Chelsea (Bradley) Manning seeking hormone therapy in prison. There have been 3 murders of transwomen in just this last week, and obscene amount murder this past summer. Keep in mine we have a very very small population, so this many killings is proportionally as troubling the genocide of Jews in WWII. In the same fashion, it would have been seen as very poor taste to make Jew jokes during WWII, just as it is now in poor taste to make transgender jokes. The main difference is that because we're so small of a population we lack positive visibility in media and every bad stereotype leads to more very real discrimination.

I'm really glad Yahtzee apologized and explained his fault in the matter with integrity. Very few people in this world do that anymore.

 

[DerangedHobo]

I appreciate what Yahtzee is trying to do here, I really do, but why is he apologizing?
You set kittens on fire, you apologize, you shit in someone's oat meal, you apologize.
Someone misinterprets a joke? Someone gets irate because you use a 'bad word'? Nah, fuck them. You don't apologize then, you explain yourself and let them do whatever they want with it.

I should probably preface this by saying I'm bisexual but I feel that apologizing for something that wasn't your fault or using the word 'tranny' (seriously, when did that word become akin to '******'?) is giving credence to the idea that people can dictate what words you use and that they are justified in taking what you say out of context and censoring you.

Not to go on a tirade but last time I checked transgendered in the western world weren't exactly being flogged in the street (unless you live in Russia, which is kinda ironic given current events and the game's setting). I may be talking from a privileged position because I have never been subject to homophobic bullying but as someone who likes to cross dress I don't see why any LGBT or sexist joke calls for a knee jerk reaction. That's the thing about words, it's context based, irregardless of the connotations it's all about the context and you being offended does not give you the right to censor them or completely ignore their context. There was no malice behind what Yahtzee said in the first place so even if the joke was objectively offensive there was no hatred behind it.

 

[Turbo_ski]

Considering that transgenderism can often be identified in very young kids, it's extremely unlikely that they're suffering from a mental disorder that's typically found with adults. Mind you, it would help if I knew more about what you were talking about by providing a source/reference from a credible, professional, and reasonably unbiased site.

The paper you posted says transgenderism is a mental disorder. If you're saying someone thinking they're a different person is a mental disorder and someone thinking they're a different gender isn't a mental disorder, what are you basing that on?

Also, stating children don't suffer from mental disorders is talking out of your ass. That's completely untrue.

Your original post doesn't even make sense. "People are skeptical of transsexuality?" No they aren't. No one is saying they don't exist. What exactly was your original point?

The American Psychiatric Association revised their manual and stance on it not being a disorder anymore. They state that it has been found to be a condition that naturally occurs and thusly can't be medically classified as a disorder.
Here is a reference link to that fact: http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/12/03/1271431/apa-revises-manual-being-transgender-is-no-longer-a-mental-disorder/

Children do suffer from mental disorders, but gender dysphoria isn't a mental disorder. We don't even know what exactly causes it, but we know that it has existed consistently since very early civilizations.

There are plenty of people that are skeptical of transgenderism, but they tend to be extreme religious fundamentallists and people with believe the numerous false stereotypes that is typical in widespread media.

 

[Turbo_ski]

Well I have to say I'm disappointed in Yahtzee. It was a joke, having to apologize for that is silly, and actually apologizing for it is just pathetic.

Not to even mention the fact that "transgender" is not even a real thing, but a figment of someone's imagination. Until someone shows some scientific proof that "transgender" exists it's about as real as Santa Claus/God. Before that, men are born with XY chromosomes and male genitalia, women with XX and female genitalia. Putting on a pwetty sundress doesn't magically turn you into a female, much like claiming I'm actually a sea bass trapped in a human's body doesn't mean I can breath underwater.

0.3% of American adults in 2011 were estimated to transgender (or at least openly so). Population of the whole US in 2011 was 311.6 million. That's 93.5 million adult transgender people in America in 2011. The are even many 4 year olds who openly identify as being the opposite gender to their sex. Look up a little transgirl named Jazz, who happens to have and identical twin brother who doesn't identify as trans. Transgenders clearly exist, and you choosing to be blind to that doesn't change the fact that they exist.

 

[DerangedHobo]

Well I have to say I'm disappointed in Yahtzee. It was a joke, having to apologize for that is silly, and actually apologizing for it is just pathetic.

Not to even mention the fact that "transgender" is not even a real thing, but a figment of someone's imagination. Until someone shows some scientific proof that "transgender" exists it's about as real as Santa Claus/God. Before that, men are born with XY chromosomes and male genitalia, women with XX and female genitalia. Putting on a pwetty sundress doesn't magically turn you into a female, much like claiming I'm actually a sea bass trapped in a human's body doesn't mean I can breath underwater.

0.3% of American adults in 2011 were estimated to transgender (or at least openly so). Population of the whole US in 2011 was 311.6 million. That's 93.5 million adult transgender people in America in 2011. The are even many 4 year olds who openly identify as being the opposite gender to their sex. Look up a little transgirl named Jazz, who happens to have and identical twin brother who doesn't identify as trans. Transgenders clearly exist, and you choosing to be blind to that doesn't change the fact that they exist.

I think your math is a little bit off, 0.3% of 311.6 million is not 93.5 million and even if there were 93.5 million transgendered then what the fuck? That's 1 in 3 people, that's a stupid amount and if there were that much they certainly wouldn't be some low minority.

And there's another can of worms to open, 4 year old's can't be expected to make life decisions, did you know what you wanted to be at 4 years old? I certainly didn't and allowing your child to dress up like a girl when their gender is otherwise is a good way to get their teeth knocked out. They can make up their mind what gender they are when they're an adult not when they're 4 years old, you can't point to a 4 year old as reliable evidence to back up your claims. I mean I believe that transgendered people exist but if I was trying to defend them I wouldn't point to a 4 year old, not to strawman your argument but that's like pointing to someone who identifies as someone who can fly and saying 'well I guess they exist!'.

 

[Miroluck]

snip

0.3% of American adults in 2011 were estimated to transgender (or at least openly so). Population of the whole US in 2011 was 311.6 million. That's 93.5 million adult transgender people in America in 2011.

Sorry, but you have messed up your arithmetics a little.

311.6 million = 311,600,000
0.3% = 0.003
93.5 million = 93,500,000

(934,800 = 0.934800 million)

311,600,000 * 0.003 = 934,800
311.6 million * 0.3% = 0.934800 million.

It's not 93.5 million at all.

93,500,000 / 934,800 ~ 100 - so you was off by 100 times.

 

[Moth_Monk]

Well what about Yahtzee's Sarah Palin joke? I mean if the transgender one was "bad"...

 

[thethird0611]

Considering that transgenderism can often be identified in very young kids, it's extremely unlikely that they're suffering from a mental disorder that's typically found with adults. Mind you, it would help if I knew more about what you were talking about by providing a source/reference from a credible, professional, and reasonably unbiased site.

The paper you posted says transgenderism is a mental disorder. If you're saying someone thinking they're a different person is a mental disorder and someone thinking they're a different gender isn't a mental disorder, what are you basing that on?

Also, stating children don't suffer from mental disorders is talking out of your ass. That's completely untrue.

Your original post doesn't even make sense. "People are skeptical of transsexuality?" No they aren't. No one is saying they don't exist. What exactly was your original point?

The American Psychiatric Association revised their manual and stance on it not being a disorder anymore. They state that it has been found to be a condition that naturally occurs and thusly can't be medically classified as a disorder.
Here is a reference link to that fact: http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/12/03/1271431/apa-revises-manual-being-transgender-is-no-longer-a-mental-disorder/

Children do suffer from mental disorders, but gender dysphoria isn't a mental disorder. We don't even know what exactly causes it, but we know that it has existed consistently since very early civilizations.

There are plenty of people that are skeptical of transgenderism, but they tend to be extreme religious fundamentallists and people with believe the numerous false stereotypes that is typical in widespread media.

Im gonna give you some info for what your talking about with the link you posted. Ive got a Psych background and know fully about the DSM (believe me, I have to learn just how everything was classified, down to minor details)

Transgenderism was taken out, but gender dysphoria is pretty much the umbrella classification for transgender folks. So if you are transgender, your classified under gender dysphoria. Pretty much what changed in the DSM was...

Being Transgender - Not a disorder.
Trouble accepting your birth gender identity - Disorder.

Which I agree is a -very- needed revision of the DSM 5, but so many people dont understand what it means.

EDIT: revision

 

[Speksi]

0.3% of American adults in 2011 were estimated to transgender (or at least openly so). Population of the whole US in 2011 was 311.6 million. That's 93.5 million adult transgender people in America in 2011. The are even many 4 year olds who openly identify as being the opposite gender to their sex. Look up a little transgirl named Jazz, who happens to have and identical twin brother who doesn't identify as trans. Transgenders clearly exist, and you choosing to be blind to that doesn't change the fact that they exist.

As was pointed already, your math is off, champ.

4 year olds might also think they are fairies, birds, lions or anything else. They are four, what they say or identify as is not exactly solid evidence.

An identical twin does not necessarily grow in the exact same environment, or share the exact same brain. Some brains are more likely the be effected by mental disorders, and the environment plays a large part in it. Put a man grown up by his lesbian mom, her life partner, your grandma and your 5 aunts to be as girly as possible alongside a man grown up by his straight parents, masculine father and otherwise normal conditions, pushing the second man towards masculinity. You'll notice a difference, that is purely the result of the growing environment.

Claiming something exists doesn't mean it does. Until you prove it, it's a figment of your imagination. You'll just have to deal with it.

By the way, regarding your earlier post about it not being a mental disorder any longer, this was posted below on the article http://juliaserano.blogspot.com/2012/12/trans-people-still-disordered-according.html

It seems someone disagrees with you.

 

[DerangedHobo]

Well what about Yahtzee's Sarah Palin joke? I mean if the transgender one was "bad"...

Heh, reminds me of that Doug Stanhope bit "Why would you vote for her when even GOD HATES HER?"
Well, that and the retard baby joke and his cutting edge political satire.

 

[LysanderNemoinis]

Well what about Yahtzee's Sarah Palin joke? I mean if the transgender one was "bad"...

Yes, but you're forgetting that it's okay to say anything about someone whose conservative, as Yahtzee's videos have shown time and time again. But if you insult someone whose liberal or is part of a protected class, then you're a horrible human being. I can guarantee it that you'd never hear him say something like that about Hillary Clinton or some other liberal woman. And if someone did, he'd be one of the first people to jump in (like many people posting here) and call it bad form.

 

[Moth_Monk]

Well what about Yahtzee's Sarah Palin joke? I mean if the transgender one was "bad"...

Yes, but you're forgetting that it's okay to say anything about someone whose conservative, as Yahtzee's videos have shown time and time again. But if you insult someone whose liberal or is part of a protected class, then you're a horrible human being. I can guarantee it that you'd never hear him say something like that about Hillary Clinton or some other liberal woman. And if someone did, he'd be one of the first people to jump in (like many people posting here) and call it bad form.

I'll take this opportunity to say that Hillary Clinton is a psychotic monster...