CEO: Square Enix Has Become "Weaker Than Expected"
- Thread starter Tom Goldman
- Start date
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Take my opinion for what it's worth, but I'll mainly focus on the "development" side of Square's properties.
1. Stay away from MMOs: nothing anywhere will come close to matching WoW, so they should have quit while they were ahead and stuck with console, one-player games.
2. The reason XII and XIII failed were that they forgot how to add variety. Look at all the side missions or minigames from VI-X. It was the closest Square ever came to what is considered a sanbox game today. What passed for "sidequests" in the last two games were "secret boss fights." Forgive me, but I don't want to spend 2-3 hours fighting some secret pile of garbage when I've spent the past 30 doing the same thing. Blitzball, Gold Saucer, Triple Triad. The old games had those and it masked the grind. XII and XIII were nothing but grind.
3. Speaking of grind, what is with their insistance on keeping the ATB system? XII had a nice idea with the on-field monsters, but they blew it when they integrated the "wait your turn" crap. X was turn based, fast paced, and fun. Star Ocean was hack and slash, real time, and fun. XII was neither and shear boredom. When fighting is all there is, make it fast. You can cut down the "60 hour epic" into "10 hour jaunt" really easily. If you want a game that should set the tone for any RPG moving forward, look at Ys Chronicles for the PSP. The main character is lightning fast, doing nothing but bumping into people. It's like if Sonic the Hedgehog were in an RPG. All I'm saying is that if Square wants to impress me, do away with ATB and choose a faster battle option. That way, if fighting is all there is, at least it will be done in a hurry.
4. For any game moving forward, or even any remake, utilize the same mantra. Random encounters and ATB should be phased out of existence, and there's no better way to do that then remake the old games so they don't exist. Lufia II DS managed to eliminate random encounters in favor of a hack and slash mechanic, and it was a refreshing experience. My utter hatred of random encounters has led to my refusal to finish III and IV DS, Mimana Iyar Chronicles, and even the vague reference to that disgusting and decrepit gaming mechanic leads to an instant dismissal. The guys who made Chrono Trigger back in 95 realized they suck, so why can't Square go back and repair that mistake with the old FF games?
5. Do not focus an entire story arc on whiny teenagers; nothing encapsulated my experience of XIII more than Hope's denial and ineptitude. Maybe it's because I'm nearing 30 and an eternal optimist/realist, but Hope is just a fat sack of whiny, hopeless, depressing, cowardly crap. He sat there on his ass moping about his mom, then he sits there moping some more because the main character (like any sane person) left him there to die. Next time Square pulls this "coming of age drama" piss with inept characters, they should give us the option to let them and their story arc die, Heavy Rain style.
Most of my gripes can be settled by eliminating ATB/random encounters and giving us access to free-roaming characters. Like I said before, RPGs these days are sold on the belief that they are "long, epic journeys." The fact is they are bloated from the immense time it takes to finish just one of their 50,000 battles. The cutscenes and story in XIII were only 6-7 hours. Had they taken the Ys approach, it would have slimmed the game from 60 to 15 hours. Imagine how hilarious it would be if Lightning simply ran around stabbing people at super sonic speed (intentionally avoided the pun). Trim the fat from the bloated corpse of RPG gameplay, and you will make a believer out of me.
1. Stay away from MMOs: nothing anywhere will come close to matching WoW, so they should have quit while they were ahead and stuck with console, one-player games.
2. The reason XII and XIII failed were that they forgot how to add variety. Look at all the side missions or minigames from VI-X. It was the closest Square ever came to what is considered a sanbox game today. What passed for "sidequests" in the last two games were "secret boss fights." Forgive me, but I don't want to spend 2-3 hours fighting some secret pile of garbage when I've spent the past 30 doing the same thing. Blitzball, Gold Saucer, Triple Triad. The old games had those and it masked the grind. XII and XIII were nothing but grind.
3. Speaking of grind, what is with their insistance on keeping the ATB system? XII had a nice idea with the on-field monsters, but they blew it when they integrated the "wait your turn" crap. X was turn based, fast paced, and fun. Star Ocean was hack and slash, real time, and fun. XII was neither and shear boredom. When fighting is all there is, make it fast. You can cut down the "60 hour epic" into "10 hour jaunt" really easily. If you want a game that should set the tone for any RPG moving forward, look at Ys Chronicles for the PSP. The main character is lightning fast, doing nothing but bumping into people. It's like if Sonic the Hedgehog were in an RPG. All I'm saying is that if Square wants to impress me, do away with ATB and choose a faster battle option. That way, if fighting is all there is, at least it will be done in a hurry.
4. For any game moving forward, or even any remake, utilize the same mantra. Random encounters and ATB should be phased out of existence, and there's no better way to do that then remake the old games so they don't exist. Lufia II DS managed to eliminate random encounters in favor of a hack and slash mechanic, and it was a refreshing experience. My utter hatred of random encounters has led to my refusal to finish III and IV DS, Mimana Iyar Chronicles, and even the vague reference to that disgusting and decrepit gaming mechanic leads to an instant dismissal. The guys who made Chrono Trigger back in 95 realized they suck, so why can't Square go back and repair that mistake with the old FF games?
5. Do not focus an entire story arc on whiny teenagers; nothing encapsulated my experience of XIII more than Hope's denial and ineptitude. Maybe it's because I'm nearing 30 and an eternal optimist/realist, but Hope is just a fat sack of whiny, hopeless, depressing, cowardly crap. He sat there on his ass moping about his mom, then he sits there moping some more because the main character (like any sane person) left him there to die. Next time Square pulls this "coming of age drama" piss with inept characters, they should give us the option to let them and their story arc die, Heavy Rain style.
Most of my gripes can be settled by eliminating ATB/random encounters and giving us access to free-roaming characters. Like I said before, RPGs these days are sold on the belief that they are "long, epic journeys." The fact is they are bloated from the immense time it takes to finish just one of their 50,000 battles. The cutscenes and story in XIII were only 6-7 hours. Had they taken the Ys approach, it would have slimmed the game from 60 to 15 hours. Imagine how hilarious it would be if Lightning simply ran around stabbing people at super sonic speed (intentionally avoided the pun). Trim the fat from the bloated corpse of RPG gameplay, and you will make a believer out of me.
Your probably right that it wont be that great but financially it would be a bad idea to cancel the project. The engine is already built and the game is simply using new or previously unused content. That means less time and money making the game and since its FF they will likely sell a lot of copies. Easy money. Same as any sequel to be fair.Genixma said:
I'm not saying its right. But with a loss of 148mil they have to make some money somehow.
Ahem.
Fire Toriyama, Man's a fucking hack.
Tell Nomura he isn't allowed to draw until he goes back to the work he did for FF5/6/7 For those wondering Monster Design/Sprite AKA Chibi design/Character Design, but the characters looked normal.
Matsuno still there from Tactics Ogre? Let him write his huge epic war fantasy, dude loves that shit and he's good at it.
FFXIII? Sucked. FFXII? Rocked. Focus on what made XII bad, and change it (Wait your turn combat even when it's free roam, the poorly paced story, the lack of mini-games outside of hunts. And not equally distributing your character development which left Ashe and Vaan as the only two who GOT any) Also
This looks ridiculous
This looks awesome
NEXT Start releasing games in OTHER GENRE'S see Dissidia? That was a step in the right fucking direction. These can be low-key, Downloadable bite sized games like SHMUPs, The Tower Defense game you already have, Airship Racing, Multiplayer RTS game, you can think of stuff.
When your thinking about the next FF to make? look at what Versus and Type-0 is doing. Versus is intresting because we've never seen that setting be used effectivly by ANYONE but Atlus, and Atlus is a fucking master of the Urban Fantasy/Modern Times with Magic game. with Type-0 you get a chance to use SeeD but ya know.
Not shit.
How abotu an RPG that's based on the 'Hollow Earth' theory where a Charming Con-Artist and a Badass female Knight are sent to one anothers worlds and half way through the game their respective parties meet up and kick the shit out of evil.
Look at Kingdom Hearts/ Versus. See that fast paced action gameplay? make that a bit more varied and merge that with the tactical options of an RPG game (hard but not impossible, and well worth the effort)
Weapon Variety is not a bad thing! Swords should NOT automatically be the strongest weapons!
No more MMOs, it just... no.
Characters Development does not mean "I have a problem, Waaaah danger, yay now were all best friends" Have I mentioned how much I hate FFXIII? NEXT Character Development is NOT Character Exposition.
Here is Character Development: Our brash hero with too much anger calms down as the game progresses, keeping the hot streak he has but becoming analytical to better serve the party. As such the people around him treat him with more respect.
Here is Character Exposition: STOP THIS SENSELESS FIGHTING! I AM A PACIFIST! IGNORE THAT I HAVE THOUSANDS OF DEAD ENEMIES TO MY NAME!
Or This: I'm actually mysterious and a prick because daddy didn't love me (Here's looking at you Balthier)
Don't give your characters quirks that we the player will hate. If he has to be stupid, make him FUNNY stupid and NOT the guy who's story you're playing. Pacifist Characters are ALWAYS A BAD IDEA AS PLAYABLE CHARACTERS! I really don't need to explain that one. Think of a pacifist in gameing, and think of how grating they are to listen to as they shiv more monsters. At the same time the badass MANLY gruff millitsary stereotype prevelant in Western gaming is also not the way to go.
You want to create characters, say you do have a young hero since you love them so much. Well then do a Tidus but with none of the angst that Tidus had. Young soldier thrust onto the battlefield in a time of war, his older compatriots serve as his mentor. He's humble and knows his place.
Also DESTINY SUCKS, if you tell me "You're the chosen one" I will go out of my way to NOT use them.
Finally, all that dead air when your wandering fields and fighting monsters? use that to develop the characters. Have talk topics that unlock every time you do an action.
Example as your escaping from the Doomed Hometown(Tm) The older party members urge the young hero onwards in escape all thrrough out the scene, have them shout out that enemies are in the way and other things on the surroundings. Set the atmosphere but develop them as well.
Then after your first fight once you've escaped and rest your characters will talk over the campfire about what to do now etc.
Give them certain observations to fixed encounters, like you enter an area and marvel at a mountain range, then you get close to it and it's actually a giant dragon and your party starts spazzing out as you run/fight. Have that one science guy go "Why do we even have a square cube law if nothing is going to obey it?"
Fire Toriyama, Man's a fucking hack.
Tell Nomura he isn't allowed to draw until he goes back to the work he did for FF5/6/7 For those wondering Monster Design/Sprite AKA Chibi design/Character Design, but the characters looked normal.
Matsuno still there from Tactics Ogre? Let him write his huge epic war fantasy, dude loves that shit and he's good at it.
FFXIII? Sucked. FFXII? Rocked. Focus on what made XII bad, and change it (Wait your turn combat even when it's free roam, the poorly paced story, the lack of mini-games outside of hunts. And not equally distributing your character development which left Ashe and Vaan as the only two who GOT any) Also
This looks ridiculous
This looks awesome
NEXT Start releasing games in OTHER GENRE'S see Dissidia? That was a step in the right fucking direction. These can be low-key, Downloadable bite sized games like SHMUPs, The Tower Defense game you already have, Airship Racing, Multiplayer RTS game, you can think of stuff.
When your thinking about the next FF to make? look at what Versus and Type-0 is doing. Versus is intresting because we've never seen that setting be used effectivly by ANYONE but Atlus, and Atlus is a fucking master of the Urban Fantasy/Modern Times with Magic game. with Type-0 you get a chance to use SeeD but ya know.
Not shit.
How abotu an RPG that's based on the 'Hollow Earth' theory where a Charming Con-Artist and a Badass female Knight are sent to one anothers worlds and half way through the game their respective parties meet up and kick the shit out of evil.
Look at Kingdom Hearts/ Versus. See that fast paced action gameplay? make that a bit more varied and merge that with the tactical options of an RPG game (hard but not impossible, and well worth the effort)
Weapon Variety is not a bad thing! Swords should NOT automatically be the strongest weapons!
No more MMOs, it just... no.
Characters Development does not mean "I have a problem, Waaaah danger, yay now were all best friends" Have I mentioned how much I hate FFXIII? NEXT Character Development is NOT Character Exposition.
Here is Character Development: Our brash hero with too much anger calms down as the game progresses, keeping the hot streak he has but becoming analytical to better serve the party. As such the people around him treat him with more respect.
Here is Character Exposition: STOP THIS SENSELESS FIGHTING! I AM A PACIFIST! IGNORE THAT I HAVE THOUSANDS OF DEAD ENEMIES TO MY NAME!
Or This: I'm actually mysterious and a prick because daddy didn't love me (Here's looking at you Balthier)
Don't give your characters quirks that we the player will hate. If he has to be stupid, make him FUNNY stupid and NOT the guy who's story you're playing. Pacifist Characters are ALWAYS A BAD IDEA AS PLAYABLE CHARACTERS! I really don't need to explain that one. Think of a pacifist in gameing, and think of how grating they are to listen to as they shiv more monsters. At the same time the badass MANLY gruff millitsary stereotype prevelant in Western gaming is also not the way to go.
You want to create characters, say you do have a young hero since you love them so much. Well then do a Tidus but with none of the angst that Tidus had. Young soldier thrust onto the battlefield in a time of war, his older compatriots serve as his mentor. He's humble and knows his place.
Also DESTINY SUCKS, if you tell me "You're the chosen one" I will go out of my way to NOT use them.
Finally, all that dead air when your wandering fields and fighting monsters? use that to develop the characters. Have talk topics that unlock every time you do an action.
Example as your escaping from the Doomed Hometown(Tm) The older party members urge the young hero onwards in escape all thrrough out the scene, have them shout out that enemies are in the way and other things on the surroundings. Set the atmosphere but develop them as well.
Then after your first fight once you've escaped and rest your characters will talk over the campfire about what to do now etc.
Give them certain observations to fixed encounters, like you enter an area and marvel at a mountain range, then you get close to it and it's actually a giant dragon and your party starts spazzing out as you run/fight. Have that one science guy go "Why do we even have a square cube law if nothing is going to obey it?"
I know it would be a "cheap" (perhaps not monetarily) but Square Enix could probably pull in a ton of cash with one simple move... Graphical updates of old Final Fantasies.
I'm sorry but who doesn't want to see what FF7s weapon bosses and the summons with modern graphics? FF5 remade /drool! While not FF, Chrono Trigger would be amazing. It's hardly a new idea but they would really only have to redesign the engines for the mini-games (ie Fort Condor).
Also, stay the hell away from MMOs. WoW is great if you like RPGs and since FF systems aren't that different from WoW you just aren't going to do well against WoW so stop pouring resources into it. Personally I'm not fond of Dissidia but that was a big hit and us fanboys, we kind of like crossovers.
I'm sorry but who doesn't want to see what FF7s weapon bosses and the summons with modern graphics? FF5 remade /drool! While not FF, Chrono Trigger would be amazing. It's hardly a new idea but they would really only have to redesign the engines for the mini-games (ie Fort Condor).
Also, stay the hell away from MMOs. WoW is great if you like RPGs and since FF systems aren't that different from WoW you just aren't going to do well against WoW so stop pouring resources into it. Personally I'm not fond of Dissidia but that was a big hit and us fanboys, we kind of like crossovers.
This is one i agree with most. We grew up with the final fantasy but now most of the people that love final fantasy and other squaresoft game are in their 20's build some char. that reflect this. Whinny coming to age stories have been done to death. Let's see something like a middle aged knight who is on a quest to save his lands or leading a rebellion against his king that has gone mad or maybe start off as a bounty hunter/mercenary who been sent to a new land /war torn land what ever. Just this I'm 16 year old and people are dieing around me but I don't want to kill anyone shit has got to go. This may be off topic but Gundam this rant is also for you.Strife2GFAQs said:
Make KH3 or a new KH game without requiring every console ever made to hear the damn story, make a relatively unchanged HD true-to-the-original remake of FFVI/VII/VIII, maybe do the same for Secret of Mana, team up with Nintendo to bring Super Mario RPG 2, or something, and stop making MMOs. They just don't work for you. New IP's sound good, do that too, just make sure they're IP's people want to play. TWEWY was good. Go with things like that.
Kingdom Hearts 3 for the PS3.
Problem solved. If you want, you can even throw in there a Special Edition. They seem to be quite trendy nowadays. Geez, I should be Square-Enix's CEO.
Problem solved. If you want, you can even throw in there a Special Edition. They seem to be quite trendy nowadays. Geez, I should be Square-Enix's CEO.
You know one of the reasons I got my PS3 for?
Kingdom Hearts 3
You know what I got instead?
A convoluted story spread out over three systems, all of which I don't have and am not gonna get because at this point you've killed any anticipation I have for the game and any chance that it might be good.
You want money? Get the godamn game done and make it bloody good
Kingdom Hearts 3
You know what I got instead?
A convoluted story spread out over three systems, all of which I don't have and am not gonna get because at this point you've killed any anticipation I have for the game and any chance that it might be good.
You want money? Get the godamn game done and make it bloody good
This. All this.SpaceMedarotterX said:
See, Square Enix, you guys are cool. Your graphics, music, plot and characters are what drove me to start playing FF games to begin with. A good game can pretty much keep you afloat forever (I'm looking at you, Halo) so if you release the next FFVII, an epic RPG, one of those RPGs that are so epic that will blow people's mind off for another 10, 15 years, then you're all set. You guys can do it. You got the means. You were once awesome. You've done it before. So do it again.
Again, stop trolling us and give us KH3. Believe me, that's a win/win situation.
A company who pulled itself from the brink of failure with a simple "last ditch effort" title that gathered fans that catapulted them into ultimate fortune, of which they began to ignore their detractors and take any opportunity to make a quick buck, or dive into a foolish venture simply on a whim is only NOW realizing they're in trouble?
Arrogance is a powerful drug.
(Also FFS give us a new Chrono game.)
Arrogance is a powerful drug.
(Also FFS give us a new Chrono game.)
First things first. Get Versus and Type-0 out, those matter the most because it looks like they should be the ones to work as the platform for the next generation.
Now Square there's no problem with wanting to establish some connected stories, since you've been doing that by making SEQUEL SEQUEL SEQUEL to each individual FF.
That is a bad move, sure it's a quick buck but it's FINAL FUCKING FANTASY you don't need VI-2 to sell a new game, the NAME will sell it. By preparing to make sequels you open yourself up to common mistakes like 'Sequel Hooks' and leaving the game half empty.
The Kingdom Hearts universe has become this convoluted amorphus blob. See to play and of the games alone you can basically piece together whats going on, but trying to understand the nitty gritty is a fucking nightmare. You can't reboot the whole thing but see if Disney is lightening up and implement some concepts from the original draft. You know a PROPER crossover, where the party members join permanently.
Again have Matsudo write his huge medieval epic, dude loves that shit and I know he has a god damn tome with all the info of it laying around. Let him handle your SRPG division.
If you CAN try to convince Nomura to do the main FF games, now I know you guys out there are rolling your eyes at me but honestly, what games have you enjoyed since the square merge? of the majority of them he's had a role as creative producer (Crisis Core/Dissida), Director (Birth by Sleep), or just as a regular producer (TWEWY). Yes Nomura has dumbass character designs, yes the one story he's in charge of (Kingdom Hearts) is the afformentioned horrible mess.
But the man can MAKE GAMES, you have to remember before all that sequel bullshit he wrote FF7, check under Original Story in the credits. And the best thing he can do in the company is produce Stand-Alone stories, because if we get sequels we get Convoluted.
Most of all, everyone knows him, EVERYONE. 99% of people who think Final Fantasy think Nomura is in charge of them all! Oh and on this note.
Try to convince Kitase to stop being a producer and go back to directing... again the man can make some good games, not so much FFVIII though.
Remember Live a Live? I do. For the uninformed Live a Live is a story about a Cowboy, a Mecha, a Anime Protagonist, a Wrestler, a Chinese Martial Artist, a Ninja, a Caveman and a Knight who each had their own short stories in their own timelines that led into the final scenario. The gameplay was also different, the Cowboy made traps, the Ninja was Tactical Espionage Action before Metal Gear Solid was, the Robot was a Space Horror Adventure game.
Again, we KNOW you can make varied games, so fucking do it. Make a full blown Ninja TEA game! It'd be like playing with Raiden... without the blond hair and AAAAANGST.
Also how about a game about two worlds visualized by different art styles with a playable world styled in Amano art and the 'Real World' of Nomura art, the protagonist slipping between them.
Now Square there's no problem with wanting to establish some connected stories, since you've been doing that by making SEQUEL SEQUEL SEQUEL to each individual FF.
That is a bad move, sure it's a quick buck but it's FINAL FUCKING FANTASY you don't need VI-2 to sell a new game, the NAME will sell it. By preparing to make sequels you open yourself up to common mistakes like 'Sequel Hooks' and leaving the game half empty.
The Kingdom Hearts universe has become this convoluted amorphus blob. See to play and of the games alone you can basically piece together whats going on, but trying to understand the nitty gritty is a fucking nightmare. You can't reboot the whole thing but see if Disney is lightening up and implement some concepts from the original draft. You know a PROPER crossover, where the party members join permanently.
Again have Matsudo write his huge medieval epic, dude loves that shit and I know he has a god damn tome with all the info of it laying around. Let him handle your SRPG division.
If you CAN try to convince Nomura to do the main FF games, now I know you guys out there are rolling your eyes at me but honestly, what games have you enjoyed since the square merge? of the majority of them he's had a role as creative producer (Crisis Core/Dissida), Director (Birth by Sleep), or just as a regular producer (TWEWY). Yes Nomura has dumbass character designs, yes the one story he's in charge of (Kingdom Hearts) is the afformentioned horrible mess.
But the man can MAKE GAMES, you have to remember before all that sequel bullshit he wrote FF7, check under Original Story in the credits. And the best thing he can do in the company is produce Stand-Alone stories, because if we get sequels we get Convoluted.
Most of all, everyone knows him, EVERYONE. 99% of people who think Final Fantasy think Nomura is in charge of them all! Oh and on this note.
Try to convince Kitase to stop being a producer and go back to directing... again the man can make some good games, not so much FFVIII though.
Remember Live a Live? I do. For the uninformed Live a Live is a story about a Cowboy, a Mecha, a Anime Protagonist, a Wrestler, a Chinese Martial Artist, a Ninja, a Caveman and a Knight who each had their own short stories in their own timelines that led into the final scenario. The gameplay was also different, the Cowboy made traps, the Ninja was Tactical Espionage Action before Metal Gear Solid was, the Robot was a Space Horror Adventure game.
Again, we KNOW you can make varied games, so fucking do it. Make a full blown Ninja TEA game! It'd be like playing with Raiden... without the blond hair and AAAAANGST.
Also how about a game about two worlds visualized by different art styles with a playable world styled in Amano art and the 'Real World' of Nomura art, the protagonist slipping between them.
Hell yes. Though frankly I barely associate Deus Ex (almost typed Desu Ex, which I may actually had associated with them xD) with Sqaurenix. I'm totally looking forward to it!GamesB2 said:
I agree about FF13 as well, it was a really pretty game. That is the extent of what I can say good about it, I played it for less time than Yahtzee did and I got fed up and returned it on day one of my rental.
