Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates

Eacaraxe

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No, I did not read any further down the ridiculous nonsense.
Holy shit do you need a primer on how burden of proof and evidence works.

The Israeli government made two distinct claims: 1, mass GBSV occurred; and 2, aforementioned violence occurred on the express order of Hamas officials. The claim was specifically not that GBSV occurred (as that claim would have been meaningless, for reasons I'll elaborate in a moment). As the claimant, the burden of proof lies on the Israeli government to support both claims.

Thus far, zero evidence has been publicized for either claim. Not only is this a trait common to Israeli claims, the Israeli government commonly cites false evidence, or outright falsified evidence as support for its claims. Such as, for example, the wealth of debunked and obviously falsified "evidence" proffered al-Shifa hospital had been used as a command and logistic center for Hamas activities. This means not only does the burden of proof still lie with Israel to support its claims, the state is a known bad-faith actor which means its claims and support must be subject to heightened scrutiny.

Evidence of isolated GBSV having occurred is neither evidence for mass GBSV, nor that it happened on Hamas orders. That just means something that tragically happens in every armed conflict, happened. Less than a dozen reported instances, including two or three massively over-reported alleged instances, is not evidence for a mass phenomenon in a conflict involving over two to three orders of magnitude more people. It simply means a handful of incidents are being overrepresented to make it appear as if mass GBSV happened.

Which as a reasonable person would note (not that you are one), follows along perfectly with the Israeli trait of falsifying evidence. And indeed, to overrepresent isolated incidents to present them as a norm is one means of falsifying evidence. This is something to which you'd almost certainly agree...if this were instead a thread about gun violence or Covid mortality rates, anyhow.

So, where does this leave the UN report? Well, it simply concluded there is no evidence for Israel's claims. Which again, are specifically mass GBSV occurred, and on Hamas orders. Not that GBSV simply occurred. In other words, the Israeli government was simply lying to manufacture consent.

Which was something we already knew. If Israel had any intelligence whatsoever Hamas officials ordered mass GBSV against Israeli citizens, it wouldn't have hesitated to produce it.
 

tstorm823

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The Israeli government yada yada yada
The Israeli government isn't in this thread. If they were making false claims in this thread, I might care to address them. But they are not, Seanchaidh is, Netanyahu could be literally Hitler and it would not justify spamming threads with a deluge of misleading tweets.

Seanchaidh has literally half of the posts in the last two pages of this thread, sometimes triple posting, and you put more thought and effort into this response than all of that combined. It's spam, it's completely thoughtless spam of the propaganda he's trained his computer to feed him, and it makes the forum worse for existing.
 

crimson5pheonix

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The Israeli government isn't in this thread. If they were making false claims in this thread, I might care to address them. But they are not, Seanchaidh is, Netanyahu could be literally Hitler and it would not justify spamming threads with a deluge of misleading tweets.

Seanchaidh has literally half of the posts in the last two pages of this thread, sometimes triple posting, and you put more thought and effort into this response than all of that combined. It's spam, it's completely thoughtless spam of the propaganda he's trained his computer to feed him, and it makes the forum worse for existing.
Stay mad that you can't derail this into pointless semantics and have to come face to face with a genocidal regime.
 

tstorm823

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Stay mad that you can't derail this into pointless semantics and have to come face to face with a genocidal regime.
Pointless semantics? You defend a genocidal regime just to spite what you see as another, you drink up Hamas' propaganda willingly, and should someone take notice that you've completely lost your minds, you think it's just semantics?

I don't think you have any actual skin in this game. I think you oppose Israel all and only because you enjoy hate and identify with whatever you think will piss off conservatives. If western right-wingers supported Palestine, would you?
 

crimson5pheonix

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Pointless semantics? You defend a genocidal regime just to spite what you see as another, you drink up Hamas' propaganda willingly, and should someone take notice that you've completely lost your minds, you think it's just semantics?

I don't think you have any actual skin in this game. I think you oppose Israel all and only because you enjoy hate and identify with whatever you think will piss off conservatives. If western right-wingers supported Palestine, would you?
ICC already putting Israel on trial. You lose.
 

Silvanus

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I don't think you have any actual skin in this game. I think you oppose Israel all and only because you enjoy hate and identify with whatever you think will piss off conservatives.
Do you find it that hard to believe that someone would criticise a country that's killed >35,000 people, disproportionately women and children, in 8 months?
 
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Elijin

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Do you find it that hard to believe that someone would criticise a country that's killed >35,000 people, disproportionately women and children, in 8 months?
Please don't reply to tstorm823 in this thread, his only investment is in dragging people into technical quibbles to draw chatter away from Israel.
 

Eacaraxe

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The Israeli government isn't in this thread. If they were making false claims in this thread, I might care to address them. But they are not, Seanchaidh is, Netanyahu could be literally Hitler and it would not justify spamming threads with a deluge of misleading tweets.

Seanchaidh has literally half of the posts in the last two pages of this thread, sometimes triple posting, and you put more thought and effort into this response than all of that combined. It's spam, it's completely thoughtless spam of the propaganda he's trained his computer to feed him, and it makes the forum worse for existing.
So, it's not fair game to discuss Israel's alleged casus belli (and its validity) in the thread about...let me just check my notes here...the Israel-Palestine conflict?

Weird. You're more than happy to discuss causes and involved parties' claims in threads about previously-alluded gun violence and Covid mortalities. Wonder how this might be the exception that proves the rule.
 

tstorm823

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Do you find it that hard to believe that someone would criticise a country that's killed >35,000 people, disproportionately women and children, in 8 months?
No, but I understand the people I'm talking to. You know as well as I do that some people here pick sides in international conflicts based significantly more (or entirely) on which countries support whom rather than what the actual nature of the conflict is.
So, it's not fair game to discuss Israel's alleged casus belli (and its validity) in the thread about...let me just check my notes here...the Israel-Palestine conflict?
That's absolutely fair game. You know what isn't actually discussion? Spamming inflammatory tweets. Like, look at this crap:
I can't validate that translation and neither can you, I can't even efficiently research this poorly cropped clip from an unnamed news segment, it was posted by "broseph stalin" in as opaque a way as possible. It's propaganda, through and through.

I've debunked a bunch of tweet posts in here, but there's literally hundreds of them in this thread, posted in the most difficult possible format to interact with, and they only serve for people to further stew in their own hatred. Again, we used to ban people from the escapist forums for posting in this fashion. It's not discussion.
 

crimson5pheonix

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No, but I understand the people I'm talking to. You know as well as I do that some people here pick sides in international conflicts based significantly more (or entirely) on which countries support whom rather than what the actual nature of the conflict is.

That's absolutely fair game. You know what isn't actually discussion? Spamming inflammatory tweets. Like, look at this crap:

I can't validate that translation and neither can you, I can't even efficiently research this poorly cropped clip from an unnamed news segment, it was posted by "broseph stalin" in as opaque a way as possible. It's propaganda, through and through.

I've debunked a bunch of tweet posts in here, but there's literally hundreds of them in this thread, posted in the most difficult possible format to interact with, and they only serve for people to further stew in their own hatred. Again, we used to ban people from the escapist forums for posting in this fashion. It's not discussion.

I've never seen you debunk anything.
 
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dreng3

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That would require reading.
Hit us with the TL: DR that completely disproves any two anti-isreal-posts in this thread.

Then we might be able to have a conversation about bias and preconception, but until then we should probably regard your posts as being in as good faith as they usually are.
 

tstorm823

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Hit us with the TL: DR that completely disproves any two anti-isreal-posts in this thread.

Then we might be able to have a conversation about bias and preconception, but until then we should probably regard your posts as being in as good faith as they usually are.
Many pages ago, Seanchaidh posted a tweet of a woman crying over her sons grave claiming the Israelis were going to destroy it, based on unmarked graves being disturbed in the adjacent lot during a project to beautify and make more accessible the graveyard he was buried in. Her sons grave was never in danger, the tweet just wanted you to think they were desecrating graves and she threw her body in the way to save them.

More recently, there was one of the posts allegedly of Israeli soldiers showing off their war crimes. The video was not posted by a soldier, but a self-professed "journalist", who based on his personal youtube channel went travelling abroad shortly after posting that footage.

None of this is to say there haven't been crimes committed by Israelis, but only that anyone uncritically spamming tweets without comment does not care what if any actual crimes were committed.