Controversial Fire Emblem: Fates Scene Dropped From Western Releases

[Dr. Crawver]

If a white man named David Bowie can take all of the cocaine from the seventies and eighties and shovel it up his nose while fucking his way from straight to bisexual all the way through to full blown homosexuality, before then making a slow u-turn with his dick and fucking his way back through the various different sexual preferences to die seemingly happily married to a woman in his late sixties.

If he can do all that in real life starting around forty-six years ago, then I think some fictional weeaboo lipstick lesbian fap fodder can dose up on a little hallucinogenic and discover just how much she likes penis.

C'mon people. It's 2016.

Honestly, if this came from her taking hallucinogenic substances by her own accord, and this all came from her tripping out, this would have been a lot funnier, and strangely, better written. That's a rewrite I would absolutely love.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

Soleil, the girl that likes girls, doesn't know she's getting drugged. Consent is a large part of the problem people have with the scenario. Honestly, it's a pretty ugly situation, brainwashing someone like that. Violating their mind to the core.

I STILL don't get this argument. I mean so what? If fiction has nazis in it, does it mean it supports nazis? No? Then why is this any different?

If you can show me where nazis are shown as the good guys and then the creator doesn't get criticized, then sure, it'll be the same. But nazis are universally shown as the bad guys. This is being shown as a good thing. That's the problem.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

Wow I didn't think I'd see Godwin's Law in a Fire Emblem topic.

To those complaining, I do kinda agree with you. At best it's kinda weird to see. But thought experiment, If they changed it to where she knew what the drink did before ingesting it, would it be okay?

It would at least be better. Still a little sketchy, but if she has full autonomy in her decision making, it at least improves the scene tenfold. After that it really comes down to how well the scene is written, because at least the premise isn't dripping with all those horrifyingly creepy unintended undertones anymore.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

I didn't say anything about S-class, so I'm not sure why you quoted me. I'm not bringing up a genre, I'm bringing up real life expectations. And in Japan, lesbian relationships between young girls are not viewed as real relationships. They're just viewed as practice for "proper" relationships with men. And I'm seeing some uncomfortable parallels here.

I apologize, it's just that I thought you got that idea from the second page. Anyways I'm always going to defend anime, and I don't view Class−S relationships as a modern trope, but I know that to some degree of relationships similar to Class-S happen in real life.

Now, I know nothing about Fire Emblem, but isn't this one the one with homosexual relationships? Is it really saying something about Class-S relationships? I think we are jumping to conclusions. Soleil is bisexual. She falls in love with the female form of the MC, but says she also loves the male MC to some degree that is not specified. She probably loves both. I don't believe that Soleil is some kind of subversion of homosexuality, nor is it sending any message that homosexuality is not real love, considering the game has, or at least I hope, genuine lesbian relationships.

Yes, there are homosexual relationships in Fire Emblem Fate. Two of them. One man and one woman. (And apparently a lot of people are a little upset that the two gay options are a sadist and a stalker.) Soleil...isn't one of them. She cannot be romanced by a female MC. If she could romance the female MC, I'd still be pissed about the whole drugging without her knowledge thing, but I wouldn't be drawing comparisons towards her not being "really" gay. But she sadly can't. So sadly I do have to draw comparisons to lesbian relationships not being real relationships because while she is attracted to women, she never acts on them and only ever ends up with men.

And since the only lesbian relationship you can have in the game is with an expy of Tharja, a character from Awakening who had "Hilarious" moments where she stalked the main character and mentioned that the MC was "alone and helpless" in a rather disturbing tone when the MC passed out...Nintendo's first step into having a lesbian relationship is with a depraved bisexual. Nice...nice going there Nintendo. I do appreciate you trying to include gay characters, but this was a SLOPPY first attempt.

 

[mrbah]

can someone explain why they believe the game should not include the player character solving a problem in an "immoral" way?

I mean what is the motivation for saying "this fictional act this fictional character did/can do was wrong, and therefore it should not be in the english version of the game."?

When people don't like a thing, they tend to let the other people in charge of the thing know.

Basic customer service info. And now, people who don't like a thing are letting the other people in charge know.

In this case specifically, some people complained that one of the "good guys" drugged a "totally straight" character without their permission, and it's treated as a good thing all around. To them (and me) it has some majorly off-putting connotations and/or is bad writing for a number of reasons you can read this very thread about. The company listened and decided to take that scene out.

Now, people are complaining that the scene was taken out. Rinse and Repeat.

why not let it in and people who like to do thing can do thing and people who don't can but will not.

I mean I don't go protesting that stores sell tomatoes, even though I strongly dislke tomatoes.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

why not let it in and people who like to do thing can do thing and people who don't can but will not.

I mean I don't go protesting that stores sell tomatoes, even though I strongly dislke tomatoes.

The people complaining about it aren't the people who changed it. Unless you think some random on the Internet can force a billion dollar company to do something it doesn't want to do without getting governments involved.

To riff off or your analogy, this is less a case of "people who don't like tomatoes complaining about a store carrying tomatoes" and more "people complaining to the store that the floor is sticky in the produce section, and they aren't going to shop in a dirty store." Not a perfect analogy, but at least it doesn't assume that everybody complaining don't have an interest in the game in the first place.

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

The biggest issue here is the way it paints America (and some Europeans I guess) in the eyes of other countries, notably Japan in this instance. We have officially become that country in terms of people thinking they need to put on the kid gloves before handing. The way game developers over here have to give special consideration to Australia when producing violent games. With the "racist" KFC commercial, and now this, America is that country that will force content developers overseas to say, "Be careful, you might upset those delicate, Americans".

What happened to "Murica"? Aren't we supposed to be made of tougher stuff than everyone else?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

To be fair, when we export games to Japan, we tend to take out a lot of the graphic violence out of games. Plus, no setting off the bomb in Fallout 3.

It's a give and take. Localization to appeal to different audiences and all.

 

[Silvanus]

The situation as described sounds so frankly bizarre that I couldn't definitively say what sexuality the character is really meant to have. Suffice it to say it is not rigidly heterosexual by any stretch, if she falls for a bloke who she sees as a woman. I do still plan to get this game, in some part because it features a gay romance (that's why I waited for this rather than plumping for Awakening).


That just leaves the drug thing to get upset about. Well... that sounds like a rather bad thing. I'm not terribly sad it's gone.

 

[mtarzaim02]

...
This scene however seems to imply that a person could only possibly find people of the same sex attractive if they were under the effect of a drug I.E not accountable for their actions and/or not capable of rational decision-making. That is quite offensive to say the least.

This has a name: alcohol.
I've heard it works quite well.

On the offensive part, from a japanese pov, it's just a comedic effect. You try to help someone, and it backfires at you the most impredictable way possible.

 

[Logience]

Can't we just be relieved that something so stupid isn't going to be in this game? I mean, FE14 had enough going against it just from advertising itself by shoving tits in your face.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

It seems that more and more devs are becoming cowards when it comes to western releases. If all it takes is a few non-gamers shrieking to get something pulled, then the millions who will play it should count for something more.

 

[Erttheking]

It seems that more and more devs are becoming cowards when it comes to western releases. If all it takes is a few non-gamers shrieking to get something pulled, then the millions who will play it should count for something more.

I guess you can't change anything without being a coward. Not like Nintendo just thought the release would be better with it like this. Seriously, why is everything oversimplified online?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

It seems that more and more devs are becoming cowards when it comes to western releases. If all it takes is a few non-gamers shrieking to get something pulled, then the millions who will play it should count for something more.

I guess you can't change anything without being a coward. Not like Nintendo just thought the release would be better with it like this. Seriously, why is everything oversimplified online?

Didn't you hear? Everything you don't like is caused by a small group of outsiders who are weak, can't handle reality, demand changes in things they don't even want, and everybody laughs at. These people are vastly powerful, has the ear of governments, and major corporations dance to their will. They can be defeated via petitions, YouTube videos, and e-mail campaigns. (And forum posts!)

Otherwise we would have to believe that people with the same hobbies can view said hobbies in different ways and have opinions that are different than ours, and that we may not be the only demographic worth catering too. Believing the first paragraph is much easier.

 

[Silvanus]

It seems that more and more devs are becoming cowards when it comes to western releases. If all it takes is a few non-gamers shrieking to get something pulled, then the millions who will play it should count for something more.

It's a tired old tactic to imagine anyone who disagrees with you isn't a real 'X' or 'Y'. It's never had any solid basis, really.

The people you disagree with are as likely to be "gamers" as those you agree with. Political opinions are not part of that label.

 

[mrbah]

To riff off or your analogy, this is less a case of "people who don't like tomatoes complaining about a store carrying tomatoes" and more "people complaining to the store that the floor is sticky in the produce section, and they aren't going to shop in a dirty store." Not a perfect analogy, but at least it doesn't assume that everybody complaining don't have an interest in the game in the first place.

The customers had the option of buying tomatoes. Both the ones who liked tomatoes and the one who did not.

the players had the option of doing said optional "questline" or "character interaction", both the ones who wanted to experience it and those who did not.

the customers who did not want to purchase the tomatoes wanted the store to remove it, thus making the decision for those who liked and disliked the fruit to not purchase it.


the players who did not want to experience the questline asked nintendo to not include it in the localisation, thus making the decision that those who would have liked the scene were not to view it as well as those who would not have.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

The customers had the option of buying tomatoes. Both the ones who liked tomatoes and the one who did not.

the players had the option of doing said optional "questline" or "character interaction", both the ones who wanted to experience it and those who did not.

the customers who did not want to purchase the tomatoes wanted the store to remove it, thus making the decision for those who liked and disliked the fruit to not purchase it.

the players who did not want to experience the questline asked nintendo to not include it in the localisation, thus making the decision that those who would have liked the scene were not to view it as well as those who would not have.

Nintendo made the decision, not the customers. And if your analogy is that that singular scene is the tomatoes, then the customer in the story is buying the entire store.

 

[MerlinCross]

Can't we just be relieved that something so stupid isn't going to be in this game? I mean, FE14 had enough going against it just from advertising itself by shoving tits in your face.

Not just that. Really I could go on a tangent about it, with this scene being near the bottom under "Bad Writing". Guys just give us(And I mean me) FE7(The one with Lyn), remastered or something.

Really I have no problem with this being removed, although after being 'otaku' for long enough, I can just wave this off as 'quirky anime stupidity'. Like this should be a stupid idea that blows up in their face but because of "anime logic" it doesn't. Which is kinda my fear after Awakening and this. Are they going too "Anime" with the series?