Not at the moment. Ovarian implants have not been deemed safe yet due to organ rejection (The first, and last known case was in the 1930s/40s with a German transwoman. She died on the operating table minutes after the surgery.) With Stem-cell research that will be possible, however.
This is a picture of Kim Petras, a 20 year old girl from Germany. Also, shes also a transsexual. Also, I would tear that shit up any day of the fucking week. Seriously, just ask and I'll buy a fucking plane ticket to Germany just to tap that, I couldn't give anything resembling the essence of a fuck about what body you were born in.
This whole topic makes me uncomfortable and to be honest im confused as to my opinion on it.
Because youre right. She is attractive. Super attractive. I cant deny that when i look at her i see a female. My brain says female and my respect for trans peoples rights says female and my gut says female. It all says female. I mean fuck i know id have sex with a hot alien woman. Thats technically freaking bestiality. Why is this "Worse" in the back of my mind?
And yet part of me feels uncomfortable with the idea. Ive dated girls that, in the past, have been people i wouldnt be attracted to but are now. Is this that different? Is it wrong to still feel weird about it? I cant think of any rational logical or sound reason to be against it that doesnt sound bigoted. And im not. I dont want to be. I wouldnt treat a trans person ANY different except when it came to sex and relationships. For some reason that makes me feel like a dick. Its cognitive dissonance and i dont like it. I cant think of any non flimsy reason why i should care. It all comes back to "It feels gay" or "Kids" and i dont honestly believe either of those reasons are good. I dont give a fuck about kids or "seeming" gay because those things dont matter to me. I dunno. I need to think about it.
I get the feeling we are turning the thread into a 50 shades fanfic.
Although I won't complain, plus we seem to be the only people that haven't argued with anyone yet. We does good.
Some people are far more accepting than others in regards to this subject.
If you get annoyed and want to argue then i'm usually around, I love me some friendly banter. Much like I have with my friend just above your quote although she's now taken to wanting to lock me in a cage and beat me.
She used to be nice, now she's evil .... evil I tells thee.
Hey do MtF transsexuals experience periods? Honestly that's what I'm most curious about.
Not that it matters tbh (though if they don't I am seriously jealous).
No, it's a grey area because NOBODY knows the answer to that question. Their GENDER has been defined but what makes a person's sex? It differes according to whom you are asking. To some a transsexual might still be the sex they have had the surgery to become. To others they will always be the sex they were born as.
Both are correct because nobody can insist on what an individuals sexuality should be.
You're not helping your case in regards to trying to act as if things are unknown. Their sex does not change at that. Further the way you put it, as if it is merely a decision that they can change? Not helping your case.
Considering how the topic is about pursuing sexual relations with trans then the sex of the trans in question is pretty damn important to people.
What if they haven't had any surgery (yet) and they've got a penis? After surgery? How much surgery? After hormonal treatment? How much hormonal treatment? The moment they "pass" for their new sex in the face of the average individual? Surely you can see how, to an observer, someone's gender does not define that individual's sex when signs point to otherwise.
No one said their gender defined it. Your own lack of knowledge does not mean that all views are valid. And don't run from your original claim with this other nonsense.
If their gender doesn't define their sex then why should a trans care what other people perceive their sex to be?
To me "I was born a man" translates to "I am a man who believes he is a female and has undergone extensive surgery and hormonal treatment to pass as a female".
nothing against transexuals. but for the same reason i am unwilling to date the elderly, those of the same gender, those way younger then me and several other catagries, it simply isn't what i am attracted to.
You're right, not knowing something does not make it a grey area. You know what does? The fact that there isn't a general consensus on the issue. Hell, many believe that they are always male regardless of any change or belief. Don't be so aggressive.
For all those idiots who are going "if you're born with [genitalia] then you will always be [gender] in my eyes"- there is a PHYSICAL DIFFERENCE between the male brain and the female brain. And the brains of transpeople more closely resembles the brain of the gender they identify as.
So you're basically saying that, to you, the brain of ANY PERSON is less important to you than the genitalia of ANY PERSON. Because that's what you judge them on. So I hope you've got the sort of penis (or vagina) that magically appeals to everyone, because you're saying that's what matters, right?
I understand the hardships you may have faced, but if you want to get scientific -- by looking at biological evidence... it lies within your DNA... simple as that.
XX female / XY male
To chastise people for being turned off at a sex change (a strictly 'cosmetic' procedure...) would be to chastise someone for being a human being.
It is hard wired into our brains to want to reproduce... it is the very most basic important characteristic of living next to being able to sustain yourself within your environment.
I strongly disagree with people who would act violently or put you down or bully etc upon learning of your situation, but you have to understand that people being turned off by it as a natural response.
The section you quoted had NOTHING to do with being turned off, and came just before I said that not being attracted to ANY group of people is an okay thing, as long as you act like a decent human being about it. My point was about the reaction of people, not to transsexuals in a dating scenario, but transsexuals IN GENERAL.
Bringing up chromosomes in not a valid argument, because it is not as simple as XX female/XY male. What about people with unusual chromosome groupings? (Please note the word "groupings", because some people have three sets of chromosomes.)
Let's face it. You don't judge someone you're going to date on their CHROMOSOMES. On their gender, probably; on their ability to reproduce, perhaps. On their history, very likely. But what do you REALLY know about the chromosomes of the people around you? Or yourself? How often is that checked?
You don't want to date transsexuals, fine. But saying that you're turned off by their chromosomes baffles me.
Finally, if you want to date someone who you can reproduce with, that's also fine. That's something which is important to you in a relationship. But a lot of people don't view that as an important thing. Even some who DO view it as important, don't view it as a deal breaker. You make it sound as if all people will only ever be happy if they can reproduce with their partners, which cuts out all gay people, all bisexual people who end up with a same-sex partner, all infertile/sterile people, all people with hereditary diseases they won't risk passing on, all women who can't carry a child... That's a lot of people who CANNOT have children, either with their partner or at all. Transsexual people are not a large percentage of that, so making it sound as if passing on your genes is "the very most basic important characteristic of living" is kind of... Well, dickish, really. To ALL of those groups (and any I forgot.)
(Just as an aside, even if I weren't trans, I would be VERY hesitant to have children, because I don't want to pass on my family's spotty medical history. Plus there's enough unwanted kids in the world, I'm happy giving at least one of them a home.)
Yes, before the post.
this post has become a lightning rod for attacks and personal comments, if you don't want to view it then don't it is an opinion expressed to answer a question and not a statement of fact
or an attack or judgmental ignorance as some have claimed, if you have a vested interest in this topic and are likely to be readily angered by such a post.
For me, there's a line and that line is self mutilation
this falls into that category, if he/she 'someone' is unstable enough that they cant become comfortable with who and what they are that's a massive turnoff to me i don't exist to fix someone else's sexual/social problems in a relationship
beauty is more than just skin, it comes from attitude and perspective as well and if the whole premise of your life is a lie you're either unhappy or capable of horrendous self delusion, neither of which are good
and that's a best case scenario, worst case is a poor op job and a terrible attitude
either way the answer's no and if a m>f trans somehow managed to trick me into dating them they'd be sued to the end of the earth when i found they were lying about everything ( honey, i'm infertile ) oh, really. 'posts skin cells to lab'
hmm, seems like you're a Pathological liar
lying and self loathing are very good reasons to want to end a relationship, or simply not begin one
I tried to avoid it (mostly because I've been sick and didn't want to bother), but this thread now occupies more than a full page of my inbox, so it's time for some commentary. Caller Number One, you're live!
Beautiful Tragedy said:
[
LMAO Ya I wouldn't announce it "Hi, I'm Melanie- trans-girl supreme."
Yeah, I wouldn't either. But it amuses me. In part because I've lived with the whole "rubbing it in our faces" thing for so long (regarding both gender ID AND sexuality), so I amuse myself by picturing living up to those extremes.
mike1921 said:
Thank you. Amazing what you can do with only a high school knowledge of genetics.
It actually frightens me a little that the bar's so low. People just say "it's science" without even that high school knowledge, or with disregard to it.
Which is one of my big headaches in this thread.
Fiz_The_Toaster said:
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I were to date someone then, yes, I do consider dating all guys. I really don't know how else to explain that other than it's just not my thing.
Read what I said. It had nothing to do with romance. In the spirit of answering my question, do you think you could re-read it and, you know, answer it?
I tried to avoid it (mostly because I've been sick and didn't want to bother), but this thread now occupies more than a full page of my inbox, so it's time for some commentary. Caller Number One, you're live!
Beautiful Tragedy said:
[
LMAO Ya I wouldn't announce it "Hi, I'm Melanie- trans-girl supreme."
Yeah, I wouldn't either. But it amuses me. In part because I've lived with the whole "rubbing it in our faces" thing for so long (regarding both gender ID AND sexuality), so I amuse myself by picturing living up to those extremes.
mike1921 said:
Thank you. Amazing what you can do with only a high school knowledge of genetics.
It actually frightens me a little that the bar's so low. People just say "it's science" without even that high school knowledge, or with disregard to it.
Which is one of my big headaches in this thread.
Fiz_The_Toaster said:
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I were to date someone then, yes, I do consider dating all guys. I really don't know how else to explain that other than it's just not my thing.
Read what I said. It had nothing to do with romance. In the spirit of answering my question, do you think you could re-read it and, you know, answer it?
You aren't seeing what I was saying there. I'm saying that I would date because my only reason to date anyone would be to have children, so yes, I would screen their child bearing capabilities because that's the only reason I'd be fucking them to begin with.
Citation needed? Seriously, based on what? Have you had sex with a lot of transsexuals?
BloatedGuppy said:
I could just as easily ask you not to climb up on your cross if I point out you are being needlessly combative. fears and loathes transsexuals with distressing regularity, you are probably gonna have a bad time. This is what I am saying.
Okay, serious question, then. What of the women, born women, who are chromosomaly XY?
The unfortunate thing for your argument is that gender is not wrapped up in the nice neat package that the argument would purport. XY women walk among us. They never have to change their name or birth certificate, they can menstruate and carry children, they can be biological mothers and the whole nine.
Not really true. Pheromones make it such that you can generally tell at a base level what chromosomes someone has, and this will color their sexual attractiveness to you on a subconscious level accordingly. You may not agree with the use of the term "fetish" to describe someone who does not detect or interpret pheromones the way most people do, but it's sounds appropriate to me. Unless there are transgender surgeries that I'm not aware of that include pheromone-producing organs, it is absolutely the case that to find a transgendered person attractive for a heterosexual is an abnormality, or at least an oddity, or an unlikely occurrence.
Incidentally, hormones influence pheromones, so even on a superficial level that was a fail.
omicron1 said:
There is most certainly a medical definition of a woman that suits his criteria. Put simply, either "One with XX chromosomes" or "One with a uterus" will work. Obviously there are exceptions, but it stands to reason that he would be equally unhappy with any such exception.
Excep they don't work on a medical level. Again, saying "science!" doesn't make something scientific. I can say that the earth is flat, but adding "science" doesn't make it more valid just because.
Both viewpoints are equally valid until proven otherwise.
That's the same specious reasoning behind the "Glen Beck can't prove he didn't rape and murder a 9 year old girl" or whatever the accusation was.
You can call it intolerance all you want, but making untennable claims and backing it up with "it's equally valid" doesn't make it so. And how dare you be so intolerant as to dismiss the flat earth hypothesis!
You aren't seeing what I was saying there. I'm saying that I would date because my only reason to date anyone would be to have children, so yes, I would screen their child bearing capabilities because that's the only reason I'd be fucking them to begin with.
The main reason for that might be the fact that you have both misused words (in this case, you used would where I'm almost positive you meant wouldn't) and tack on extraneous statements that seem to contradict your core statement. By way of another example, this:
I would if I gave a shit about dating/romance/etc, yes.
I've been avoiding posting in this thread due to the amount of bullshit and bile being thrown around but sorry, really...
The Lugz said:
For me, there's a line and that line is self mutilation
this falls into that category, if he/she 'someone' is unstable enough that they cant become comfortable with who and what they are that's a massive turnoff to me i don't exist to fix someone else's sexual/social problems
...So a person born with a facial disfigurement or some other defect that causes them distress that can be treated by surgery, skin grafts or whatever are they deemed 'unstable' if they wanted to go through with the procedure?
The Lugz said:
in a relationship
beauty is more than just skin, it comes from attitude and perspective aswel and if the whole premise of your life is a lie you're either unhappy or capable of horrendous self delusion, neither of which are good
Yeah beauty is more than skin deep, but step into our shoes and see how much of a positive attitude/perspective towards our futures needed to even begin to transition in a world of such narrow mindedness. It takes a lot of mental fortitude to go through all of this, and even then it is a struggle but we push on...Unfortunately a lot do not feel such positivity and sadly take their own lives/suffer internally through out life, to which my heart goes out to them and their families.
My/Our life is not a lie, I am/We are being true to myself/ourselves.
Speaking for myself I am not deluded I know that come what may I will never be 100% what I should be but I can damn well do my best to get there.
The Lugz said:
and that's a best case scenario, worst case is a poor op job and a terrible attitude
See above about the attitude and have a look on google at a majority of ops - FtM ops have a bit of harder time as it's easier to dig a hole (As they say) =(.
The Lugz said:
either way the answer's no and if a m>f trans somehow managed to trick me into dating them they'd be sued to the end of the earth when i found they were lying about everything ( honey, i'm infertile ) oh, really. 'posts skin cells to lab'
hmm, seems like you're a Pathological liar
Again I am sorry but "tricking" you...Yeah, really we're all out to ruin your life by tricking you into feeling attracted to us. Because last time I checked when a person goes out on a date/have sex it's a mutual thing, so if you went on a date how is that a fucking trick?!
You want us to walk around with bloody name tags saying something along the lines of "Hi, I am xxx I am xtx." Get real, it's not like we're carrying a disease that you can catch or anything like hep or crabs (so on and so forth)...Which surly has to be a bigger problem than what used to be between the legs.
Suing? What for? Not telling you the full service history before you stuck your junk between their legs, which I can almost hazard a guess you'd enjoy (Because hey, you know I got one). Plus if you had gotten her that far into bed I am damn sure you'd be too caught up in the moment to notice anything.
It's almost akin to suing because the woman you want to bang photoshopped her facebook photo or that your girlfriend took off all her make up and has a blemish the size of Luxembourg on her face...It's just ludicrous to even say something that like that ._.
Please don't get me started on the infertile/kids shit...Adopt is all I shall say at this point.
The Lugz said:
lying and self loathing are very good reasons to want to end a relationship, or simply not begin one
Yes lying is bad, selfloathing on the other hand is something that people can help others out with with just even a slight bit of empathy...These traits can be applied to anyone, everywhere - Regardless of Gender/Sexuality.
BiscuitTrouser said:
afroebob said:
This is a picture of Kim Petras, a 20 year old girl from Germany. Also, shes also a transsexual. Also, I would tear that shit up any day of the fucking week. Seriously, just ask and I'll buy a fucking plane ticket to Germany just to tap that, I couldn't give anything resembling the essence of a fuck about what body you were born in.
This whole topic makes me uncomfortable and to be honest im confused as to my opinion on it.
Because youre right. She is attractive. Super attractive. I cant deny that when i look at her i see a female. My brain says female and my respect for trans peoples rights says female and my gut says female. It all says female. I mean fuck i know id have sex with a hot alien woman. Thats technically freaking bestiality. Why is this "Worse" in the back of my mind?
And yet part of me feels uncomfortable with the idea. Ive dated girls that, in the past, have been people i wouldnt be attracted to but are now. Is this that different? Is it wrong to still feel weird about it? I cant think of any rational logical or sound reason to be against it that doesnt sound bigoted. And im not. I dont want to be. I wouldnt treat a trans person ANY different except when it came to sex and relationships. For some reason that makes me feel like a dick. Its cognitive dissonance and i dont like it. I cant think of any non flimsy reason why i should care. It all comes back to "It feels gay" or "Kids" and i dont honestly believe either of those reasons are good. I dont give a fuck about kids or "seeming" gay because those things dont matter to me. I dunno. I need to think about it.
If more people could approach matters like this be it about gender, race, creed etc The world would be lot happier I feel - It's honest and isn't trying to hide behind a stonewall of intolerance and appears open to change (Much respect ^^) I also possibly worded all that wrong as my head is in rant mode xD
I know what I meant to ask you yesterday (bloody ageing memory, aint what it used to be).
Could you send me the link for the book type thing you wrote. I lost the link and wanted to buy it. I say lost, my bookmarks kinda vanished for reasons unknown to me (funnily enough, the same day my daughter used my computer) and when I went to look for it I couldn't find the bugger.
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