Critical Miss: Dragon Age 2

[The_root_of_all_evil]

...And this is why PC gaming is dying: because you don't have to deal with this shit with the consoles.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/108588-Microsoft-Defends-Games-on-Demand-Pricing

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/103890-Nintendos-Iwata-Blames-You-for-the-Price-of-the-3DS

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/101736-Pachter-PS3-Sales-to-Grow-Price-to-Remain-the-Same

Yeah...only us PC people.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Feel sorry for all the people that ended up buying the "RPG of the decade" ^o^

As someone who loves DA:O and DA2, I can confidently say you don't need to feel sorry for me

Seconded! I love this game! it's fantastic!

Thirded. Haters gonna hate.

And then there are the people like myself who have valid criticisms of the game, so we sort of fall in the middle category between to extremes of fanboyism: ignoring flaws, or drowning in them.

I want more people like me, I've been spending too much time on the Bioware Social Network that I am getting sick of all the trolls and delusional fanboys.

This isn't really directed at you, just know that there is more than two ways of looking at Dragon Age 2.

 

[w-Jinksy]

I get tired of the Welsh jokes, atleast have somthing to back up the things, like Americas obesity problem.

It's funny, because I have this crazy feeling you haven't even been to America, so you only have news outlets to rely on for the "obesity problem".

The definition for obesity used in the US is based entirely on weight-height ratio. Not body fat percentage, or anything reasonable. Most bodybuilders are considered "obese" under the US definition. Even though people like to talk about how "One fourth of Americans are obese", I'm sitting in a room of 40 people, and not a one of them looks in the least bit fat.

I'm about to start raging here, so I'll cut this off.

Watch the documentary "Fat Head". It explains the whole "obesity epidemic" far better than I ever could.

it's funny because i have this funny feeling you haven't been to wales so you only have idiots on the internet to rely on for "sheep shagging"

but dude seriously he was making a point that if your gunna stereotype someone you can also be stereotyped.

OT: T'is a shame whats happening with DA2 the demo was fun and it looked good but all this shit thats piling up about it is working against its favour.

 

[theultimateend]

I get tired of the Welsh jokes, atleast have somthing to back up the things, like Americas obesity problem.

It's funny, because I have this crazy feeling you haven't even been to America, so you only have news outlets to rely on for the "obesity problem".

The definition for obesity used in the US is based entirely on weight-height ratio. Not body fat percentage, or anything reasonable. Most bodybuilders are considered "obese" under the US definition. Even though people like to talk about how "One fourth of Americans are obese", I'm sitting in a room of 40 people, and not a one of them looks in the least bit fat.

I'm about to start raging here, so I'll cut this off.

Watch the documentary "Fat Head". It explains the whole "obesity epidemic" far better than I ever could.

While folks might not be fat I'd be careful to never understate just how bad the western diet is. We do terrible things to our bodies (well most Americans do).

 

[sanzo]

Hmm. I'll admit, the PR fiascos that I've witnessed so far have been wryly amusing to me, but in terms of negative impact to the actual product? Origins had some massive bugs right out of the gate, including a fairly substantial memory leak that eventually extended load times between zones so much that you could brew and drink an entire pot of coffee before the zone would finish loading, plus the usual slew of random crashes to desktop. Dragon Age 2 on the other hand has crashed all of 3 times in the I've lost track of just how many hours I've been playing that damn game but it's a lot that I've been playing it, and I'm not entirely sure that one of those instances was the fault of the program and not my computer itself. Apart from that, the only in-game glitches that I've encountered were:

• 1. A couple of times[footnote]And by that I mean literally twice, once in a conversation with Bethany and once with Fenris.[/footnote] the first line that an NPC delivers in a conversation didn't "trigger" somehow, and it jumped right to Hawke's response options.
  
  2. One sidequest apparently completed but didn't leave my active quest list (the one with Fetch).
  
  3. I think one conversation with Merrill in her home triggered too early, but I might be misinterpreting it.

From a coding standpoint I would definitely contend that Dragon Age II is a more solid initial product than Origins, that had all sorts of bugs, including real whoopers that rendered entirely playstyles ineffective. Still, the PR miss-steps are pretty darn hilarious.

I'm on upwards of 50 hours now, and I just had my first crash yesterday; right after I saved, so I lost pretty much nothing. I do remember DA:O crashing quite a bit

Yeah, the Fetch sidequest is bugged to still show up even after you beat it. And there is a bug for Merrill as well; I think if you're in a relationship with her, you might see that scene too early. I don't think it's every time, but it did happen to me on one of my playthroughs. You can read about both of them on the Wiki

Really, I don't get all the hate for this game. Probably just people's expectations being different from what they got when it wasn't exactly like Origins

 

[mireko]

and i 'd rather play risen and risen2.

Funny, I'd rather get shot in the foot than play Risen again.

So I bought DA2. It's still in her shiny wrappers, since I decided to play the pirate version instead. And my life is better because of that. QED for the problems facing AAA industry, I guess. Sure doesn't make me feel like buying many games with what limited budget I have to use for entertainment. But I guess natural selection will eventually work these problems out.

What?

You bought DA2, but played a pirated version because you don't have enough money?

Wait, no, those are obviously unconnected.. but that makes less sense. How did it improve your life?

 

[The Wooster]

You make it sound as if the Metacritic "scandal" was an official BioWare initiative and not the singular effort of a DA2 developer praising his own game.

Two developers did it and EA then went on to defend the practice. "Of course the people who make the game vote for their own game," a senior PR manager said. "That's how it works in the Oscars, that's how it works in the Grammy's and why I'm betting that Barack Obama voted for himself in the last election."

You make it sound as if the vestiges of SecuROM on the game that no-one cried foul about until it was "exposed" by a single website is a game-breaking issue.

What annoys people is not that SecuROM is in the game (hey it's bullshit but at least it's not TAGES) but the fact that the developers and publishers stated quite clearly that it wouldn't be.

You make it sound like sucking at PR is a new concept for EA.

For EA? No. For Bioware? Yes.

Thank you for reading!

It doesn't have SecuROM. Learn to use a computer.

EDIT: Allow me to expand upon this. When the game is installed, Sony Release Control distributes two files to the user's temp folder and deletes itself. The files in the temp folder are identified as SecuROM because they call on similar functions, but they are inactive. As in, they don't do anything. You can delete them and nothing will happen.

Reclaim your game [http://www.reclaimyourgame.com/content.php?774-RYG-News-Connecting-Dragon-Age-2-s-%E2%80%9CRelease-Control%E2%80%9D-To-SecuROM] seems to think otherwise.

 

[mireko]

And then there are the people like myself who have valid criticisms of the game, so we sort of fall in the middle category between to extremes of fanboyism: ignoring flaws, or drowning in them.

I want more people like me, I've been spending too much time on the Bioware Social Network that I am getting sick of all the trolls and delusional fanboys.

This isn't really directed at you, just know that there is more than two ways of looking at Dragon Age 2.

No need to get defensive. People can say they love a game and not mean that's completely perfect and flawless. Only the most delusional (or easily pleased) believe there are no flaws in DA2 (or any other game, for that matter), but the accusation of DA2 being 'dumbed down' is kind of stupid. To a certain extent, anyway (I don't like the companion armor system either).

That's where the problem lies in this discussion, I think. Somehow people have convinced themselves that BioWare used to make "hardcore" RPGs until right now, when everything suddenly became simplistic. In reality, they haven't made a "hardcore" RPG for about thirteen years[footnote]Which is fine, I hated having to rest every five minutes with my mage in BG.[/footnote]. A lot of the problems with DA2 were also present in DA:O[footnote]and Mass Effect, and Jade Empire, and KOTOR[/footnote], but nobody complained then because it didn't fit the narrative of a franchise being dumbed down for the console kiddies.

We just need to separate discussions of the merits and faults of BioWare's games from that of the unbelievably gullible and stupid culture that permeates the internet. Maybe say "I'M NOT A PART OF THIS AND THIS SUBCULTURE/BACKLASH" or something. I know it shouldn't be necessary. I know people should be able to read an argument without automatically assuming that the poster is picking a side, but that's not how it works. People are always picking a side.


TL;DR: Eh, deal with it.

 

[mireko]

What annoys people is not that SecuROM is in the game (hey it's bullshit but at least it's not TAGES) but the fact that the developers and publishers stated quite clearly that it wouldn't be.

I hate to be "that guy", but it still isn't SecuROM.


EDIT: Sorry, didn't see you responded to my other post. Didn't get a notification.

 

[loremazd]

A few things.

1. I could have swore that the people who posted those review scores were punished in some way, shape or form.

2. The problem with the inability to activate the game was resolved. It was because of a misunderstanding.

I have no idea what Securom even is though.

They were reprimanded, yes, and the problem with the banning was with ONE guy and a forum mod getting snarky.

Securom bit, i'm kinda ticked with the guy who made this over that. I've had absolutely no issues with this game, nor any securom data showing up anywhere on my computer.

As for my opinion on the game, it's worse than the original, but I still loved it. The only thing i'm annoyed with is that Bioware is now blizzard in terms of reactions. Every single mod's words is remembered and archived, every single mistake is a big catastrophe, and every single action is dissected and monitored after every release.

I actually found that the second I stopped looking at the bioware forums was the second in which I could stop overanalysing things and conclude that I had purchased a fun game that was worth what I paid.

 

[Madara XIII]

...And this is why PC gaming is dying: because you don't have to deal with this shit with the consoles.

Linux, bitches! It's the shizzle! Can ya dig it?

I can dig it.

Diggin' like Dig Dug!!

NOW OPEN WIDE *grabs an air pump*

 

[draythefingerless]

You make it sound as if the Metacritic "scandal" was an official BioWare initiative and not the singular effort of a DA2 developer praising his own game.

Two developers did it and EA then went on to defend the practice. "Of course the people who make the game vote for their own game," a senior PR manager said. "That's how it works in the Oscars, that's how it works in the Grammy's and why I'm betting that Barack Obama voted for himself in the last election."

You make it sound as if the vestiges of SecuROM on the game that no-one cried foul about until it was "exposed" by a single website is a game-breaking issue.

What annoys people is not that SecuROM is in the game (hey it's bullshit but at least it's not TAGES) but the fact that the developers and publishers stated quite clearly that it wouldn't be.

You make it sound like sucking at PR is a new concept for EA.

For EA? No. For Bioware? Yes.

Thank you for reading!

It doesn't have SecuROM. Learn to use a computer.

EDIT: Allow me to expand upon this. When the game is installed, Sony Release Control distributes two files to the user's temp folder and deletes itself. The files in the temp folder are identified as SecuROM because they call on similar functions, but they are inactive. As in, they don't do anything. You can delete them and nothing will happen.

Reclaim your game [http://www.reclaimyourgame.com/content.php?774-RYG-News-Connecting-Dragon-Age-2-s-%E2%80%9CRelease-Control%E2%80%9D-To-SecuROM] seems to think otherwise.

Semantics. The major problem people had with SecuRom was with all the services it was executing. Read the conclusion of reclaim your game, they are saying that using A PART of SecuRom is USING SecuRom. So yeah, they are right, by that definition they are. But if we become a bit more pragmatic, youll see that using a Release Control, a service that was present in SecuRom, isnt what pissed off people before about SecuRom.

In short, Reclaim Your Game is right that it is SecuRom by definition of the subject, but are wrong by reality, since the service in the game that was part of SecuRom isnt that big of a deal, it simply has the SecuRom name attached to it.

It is like saying that because Buddhists use the Swastika, they are fucking nazis. That because they are using a insignificant part of sth that was bad, they are bad.

Also, one developer did it. I seen no problem with it. EA was right, if youre running for president of sth, you sure as hell arent gonna vote blank or on your rival. You are running for president, but youre part of the voting body too. If you didnt think you were gonna be a good president, you wouldnt run right?(That is speculating people have good morals, wich they dont, ).

 

[Gildan Bladeborn]

Yeah, the Fetch sidequest is bugged to still show up even after you beat it. And there is a bug for Merrill as well; I think if you're in a relationship with her, you might see that scene too early. I don't think it's every time, but it did happen to me on one of my playthroughs. You can read about both of them on the Wiki

Really, I don't get all the hate for this game. Probably just people's expectations being different from what they got when it wasn't exactly like Origins

Ah, well in that case it was definitely the bug that I saw, since I was indeed in a relationship with Merrill when that scene triggered (evidently too early). I'm curious now what will happen when I "catch up" to that point. Looking through the rest of the thread jogged my memory that I'd also encountered the "Wounded Coast sidequest showing up in quest log but not ever triggering in the world itself, but some NPC bandit captain fellow who you cannot interact with is standing presumably where that quest would take place" issue, so it was actually 4 things, none of which were particularly earth-shattering.

So yeah, unrealistic expectations much on the part of all the naysayers? A few minor glitches and a few crashes to desktop over the course of... hang on... damn, can't look that up on Bioware's social site because I evidently haven't registered Dragon Age 2 (and yet all the registered promotions/content I've unlocked shows up just fine?), let's just call it at least 40 hours by now, several chunks of that playtime achieved in chunks of 8+ hours at a stretch? That says "game that pretty much works like you'd expect it to out of the box" to me.

 

[Worr Monger]

Feel sorry for all the people that ended up buying the "RPG of the decade" ^o^

As someone who loves DA:O and DA2, I can confidently say you don't need to feel sorry for me

Seconded! I love this game! it's fantastic!

Thirded. Haters gonna hate.

And then there are the people like myself who have valid criticisms of the game, so we sort of fall in the middle category between to extremes of fanboyism: ignoring flaws, or drowning in them.

I want more people like me, I've been spending too much time on the Bioware Social Network that I am getting sick of all the trolls and delusional fanboys.

This isn't really directed at you, just know that there is more than two ways of looking at Dragon Age 2.

Don't get me wrong.... I have plenty of criticisms about DA2. I felt DA:O's combat was still superior... just not as fancy looking. DA2's level design is very repetitive, even for a Bioware game. I preferred having many dialogue choices (while sacrificing my characters voice) and having more overall moral choices that impacted the ending (i.e. the many different ways of helping the elves or not). And maybe I'm in the minority... but I loved The Fade stage in the game.

These are just to name a few... I'm not here to rant (I think). DAO was massive and did a great job at introducing us to the world. DA2 is different, but really good in it's own way. The combat is still fun & challenging, but different. The races were more distinguished. The story was more focused, but still brought many of the dilemmas of Thedas to the table. The characters are also still really good.

I like that DA2 wasn't just a complete rehash of DAO (another Grey Warden.. Blight... etc.), they took a different approach but kept the feel of the world. I think it's a worthy sequel.... But as most people, I hope they bring in a LITTLE bit more of what made DAO great into DA3. Back to the "Baldur's Gate successor" approach they originally had would be nice.

hmmm.. guess that was a rant. Whoops.

 

[draythefingerless]

Another thing i see is people saying you have less dialogue choices in DA2. that is bullshit. CHOICES, not basic banther of like Why are you here, Who are you etc etc.

If you go see your DA Origins again, youll see you had about the same choices you had in this one. 3-4 choices to advance a conversation. I would love to see where this idea comes from. Just cause its on a wheel instead of a list, doesnt make it less diverse. Just...querkier and easier for a gamepad. xD

 

[The Wooster]

Semantics. The major problem people had with SecuRom was with all the services it was executing. Read the conclusion of reclaim your game, they are saying that using A PART of SecuRom is USING SecuRom. So yeah, they are right, by that definition they are. But if we become a bit more pragmatic, youll see that using a Release Control, a service that was present in SecuRom, isnt what pissed off people before about SecuRom.

In short, Reclaim Your Game is right that it is SecuRom by definition of the subject, but are wrong by reality, since the service in the game that was part of SecuRom isnt that big of a deal, it simply has the SecuRom name attached to it.

The game either features SecuROM, or it does not. Again, the reason this bit of news caught my eye is not because the game actually contained SecuROM (again. Not too bothered by it as a product.) but that EA stated categorically that it did not. They realized that SecuROM, as a product, has some seriously negative connotations and instead of using a different security product or attempting to explain to the relatively small section of users that actually give a shit what they were actually doing they instead chose to lie about it. A poor decision, in my opinion and indicative of EA and Bioware's utter PR failure when it came to DA2.

The game, however, is great.

Another thing i see is people saying you have less dialogue choices in DA2. that is bullshit. CHOICES, not basic banther of like Why are you here, Who are you etc etc.

If you go see your DA Origins again, youll see you had about the same choices you had in this one. 3-4 choices to advance a conversation. I would love to see where this idea comes from. Just cause its on a wheel instead of a list, doesnt make it less diverse. Just...querkier and easier for a gamepad. xD

To be fair to them. Dragon Age: Origins wasn't exactly a shining beacon of RPG depth. Like most Bioware games it eventually boiled down to Good/Eh/Bad. There is, in my opinion, a little less depth of character in DA2, especially for the random dudes that crop up during quests. Which may be more realistic I guess, I always did find it kind of odd that your character would pretty much act like the spanish inquisition to every character he/she met. ("WHERE ARE YOU FROM? WHAT DO YOU DO? *punches head*)
That being said compare DA2 to say any older school RPG and you can see where the complaints of a lack of depth come from. One funny image that illustrated it.

Of course that's comparing DA2, which is essentially an action RPG, to the best RPG ever made, so that's kind of unfair. Still makes me chuckle though.

 

[draythefingerless]

Semantics. The major problem people had with SecuRom was with all the services it was executing. Read the conclusion of reclaim your game, they are saying that using A PART of SecuRom is USING SecuRom. So yeah, they are right, by that definition they are. But if we become a bit more pragmatic, youll see that using a Release Control, a service that was present in SecuRom, isnt what pissed off people before about SecuRom.

In short, Reclaim Your Game is right that it is SecuRom by definition of the subject, but are wrong by reality, since the service in the game that was part of SecuRom isnt that big of a deal, it simply has the SecuRom name attached to it.

The game either features SecuROM, or it does not. Again, the reason this bit of news caught my eye is not because the game actually contained SecuROM (again. Not too bothered by it as a product.) but that EA stated categorically that it did not. They realized that SecuROM, as a product, has some seriously negative connotations and instead of using a different security product or attempting to explain to the relatively small section of users that actually give a shit what they were actually doing they instead chose to lie about it. A poor decision, in my opinion and indicative of EA and Bioware's utter PR failure when it came to DA2.

The game, however, is great.

Indeed it is. I think weve reached a point where gamers are now just becoming game snobs. This story is more down to earth, you have the same amount and depth in the characters, it can be difficult(FUCK THAT ROCK WRAITH IN HARD DIFFICULTY, FUCK HIM) and it builds upon its predecessor and tries sth different, wich is what a sequel should be ideally(lookin at you CoD).

 

[The Wooster]

Semantics. The major problem people had with SecuRom was with all the services it was executing. Read the conclusion of reclaim your game, they are saying that using A PART of SecuRom is USING SecuRom. So yeah, they are right, by that definition they are. But if we become a bit more pragmatic, youll see that using a Release Control, a service that was present in SecuRom, isnt what pissed off people before about SecuRom.

In short, Reclaim Your Game is right that it is SecuRom by definition of the subject, but are wrong by reality, since the service in the game that was part of SecuRom isnt that big of a deal, it simply has the SecuRom name attached to it.

The game either features SecuROM, or it does not. Again, the reason this bit of news caught my eye is not because the game actually contained SecuROM (again. Not too bothered by it as a product.) but that EA stated categorically that it did not. They realized that SecuROM, as a product, has some seriously negative connotations and instead of using a different security product or attempting to explain to the relatively small section of users that actually give a shit what they were actually doing they instead chose to lie about it. A poor decision, in my opinion and indicative of EA and Bioware's utter PR failure when it came to DA2.

The game, however, is great.

Indeed it is. I think weve reached a point where gamers are now just becoming game snobs. This story is more down to earth, you have the same amount and depth in the characters, it can be difficult(FUCK THAT ROCK WRAITH IN HARD DIFFICULTY, FUCK HIM) and it builds upon its predecessor and tries sth different, wich is what a sequel should be ideally(lookin at you CoD).

There's a strange phenomenon that happens every time a sequel comes out. When Origins came out I remember people absolutely hating it because it wasn't what they thought it would be, namely a 3d Baldurs Gate (would have be sooo awesome) and it had a fair few flaws. The combat was wonky, it was buggy as fuck, the difficulty was all over the place.
Then when DA2 is announced all of a sudden Origins became the shining example of what RPGs should be. Oh it'll never live up to the sequel yadda yadda. I guess Bioware was handing out the rose tinted glasses.

Edit: If I have one problem with DA2 it's male Hawke's voice. He's like Alistair tuned up to 11. His dialogue choices are generally. SMUG/SMUG/SMUG.

 

[Legion]

Nicely done. Doesn't stop me enjoying the game, however, I have just lost a little respect for Bioware as a developer.

 

[draythefingerless]

Semantics. The major problem people had with SecuRom was with all the services it was executing. Read the conclusion of reclaim your game, they are saying that using A PART of SecuRom is USING SecuRom. So yeah, they are right, by that definition they are. But if we become a bit more pragmatic, youll see that using a Release Control, a service that was present in SecuRom, isnt what pissed off people before about SecuRom.

In short, Reclaim Your Game is right that it is SecuRom by definition of the subject, but are wrong by reality, since the service in the game that was part of SecuRom isnt that big of a deal, it simply has the SecuRom name attached to it.

The game either features SecuROM, or it does not. Again, the reason this bit of news caught my eye is not because the game actually contained SecuROM (again. Not too bothered by it as a product.) but that EA stated categorically that it did not. They realized that SecuROM, as a product, has some seriously negative connotations and instead of using a different security product or attempting to explain to the relatively small section of users that actually give a shit what they were actually doing they instead chose to lie about it. A poor decision, in my opinion and indicative of EA and Bioware's utter PR failure when it came to DA2.

The game, however, is great.

Indeed it is. I think weve reached a point where gamers are now just becoming game snobs. This story is more down to earth, you have the same amount and depth in the characters, it can be difficult(FUCK THAT ROCK WRAITH IN HARD DIFFICULTY, FUCK HIM) and it builds upon its predecessor and tries sth different, wich is what a sequel should be ideally(lookin at you CoD).

There's a strange phenomenon that happens every time a sequel comes out. When Origins came out I remember people absolutely hating it because it wasn't what they thought it would be, namely a 3d Baldurs Gate (would have be sooo awesome) and it had a fair few flaws. The combat was wonky, it was buggy as fuck, the difficulty was all over the place.
Then when DA2 is announced all of a sudden Origins became the shining example of what RPGs should be. Oh it'll never live up to the sequel yadda yadda. I guess Bioware was handing out the rose tinted glasses.

Edit: If I have one problem with DA2 it's male Hawke's voice. He's like Alistair tuned up to 11. His dialogue choices are generally. SMUG/SMUG/SMUG.

Smug? Nah. The noble choices are fairly noble, the badass ones are pretty raunchy, the smug ones are smug.

You forgot to say the characters in Origins were one dimensional. They were GREAT, i LOVED them, but common...you can describe the entirety of what tehyre all about in one sentence.Morrigan the *****. Leliana the innocent girl. Wynne the dying wise master. Alistair the quirky. Sten the soldier. Zevran the suave romantic.

Now try and describe Varric to me like that...

Also surprising are their attitudes. Like this one time i had a load of cash from a mission and some refugees, and i needed the cash for the deep roads but i gave it to the refugees. I was expecting Varric to disapprove, but no, +2 friendship. That alone surprised me more than most dialogues.