Dark Souls: Initial Thoughts

[Itsthefuzz]

Just got to the tomb of the giants. It's my most hated area now... AND I got invaded right away.

 

[QueenOliver]

Just got to the tomb of the giants. It's my most hated area now... AND I got invaded right away.

Do you have the Cast Light sorcery? It will make your life much easier in that area until you get the lantern. You get it from the Dusk of Oolacile who you unlock by killing the Golden Golem mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

[TheDooD]

Story? Yes, it's light in story and I'm sure that's part of the point. They didn't hire Stephen King, and not everyone will put the money to do so you know. You have to talk to people to get the story. As far as you know you're just some undead who was in a cage when shit hit the fan.

I would honestly buy a Dark Souls book / series of books written by Stephen King. Only he could extend the story while staying true to it imo.

 

[Zeh Don]

No it isn't.
This isn't 'old school' gaming at all. It's just a complete lack of design. These aren't clever conscious choices made by a development team, they are the absence of such. You don't make a game hard by making it cheap, you just make it frustrating.
Frustrating game design is poor game design.
This idea that improving the design of Dark Souls somehow detracts from the experience is such tosh. So is the notion that anything other than this approach is some kind of 'namby pamby' experience.
If this represents the best this year has to offer then the industry might as well give up.

Ahahahahahaha, what? Did you even _read_ your post before you clicked 'Post'?

How would you "improve" the design of Dark Souls? Auto-saves? No respawning monsters? Unlimited Estus Flasks? Shorter fights? More 'action' less 'repeat'?
If you even consider anything close to these changes "improvements" then you've failed to simply understand the 'design' of Dark Souls. This is why you're on a forum, and not a game designer.

Dark Souls is old school gaming. For better and worse. Love it or hate it. It is what it is. It's not trying to appease Call of Duty players. It's not trying to grab the Facebook market. It's doesn't give one single fuck about you. This is why it's a masterpiece - it knows what it is, and is happy being that. If every game was happy being itself - Syndicate, XCOM, Dragon Age, etc. - we'd all be a lot happier.

 

[QueenOliver]

Story? Yes, it's light in story and I'm sure that's part of the point. They didn't hire Stephen King, and not everyone will put the money to do so you know. You have to talk to people to get the story. As far as you know you're just some undead who was in a cage when shit hit the fan.

I would honestly buy a Dark Souls book / series of books written by Stephen King. Only he could extend the story while staying true to it imo.

The setting of Demon's Souls actually reminded me a lot of A Song of Ice and Fire. A dark, foreboding, and incredibly dangerous fantasy setting. No elves, dwarves or orcs. Magic (or "soul arts") is a double edged sword. And an evil threat descending on the land that turns people into zombies. Of course, if GRR Martin were the one to write an adaptation, we'd have to extend his life about a decade so that he'd live long enough to finish it.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

The player doesn't fear death, as he might in DA or Oblivion (which is the sort of trepidation the developers of DS want the player to feel), he just fears the tedious repetition of task to progress. That's something else entirely.

Oblivion and Dragon Age let you save wherever you want, so if you're like me and an obsessive saver, then in-game death is rarely a big issue.

 

[Itsthefuzz]

Just got to the tomb of the giants. It's my most hated area now... AND I got invaded right away.

Do you have the Cast Light sorcery? It will make your life much easier in that area until you get the lantern. You get it from the Dusk of Oolacile who you unlock by killing the Golden Golem mentioned earlier in the thread.

I inched my way through until I got the lantern, but I wouldn't have had enough faith for the spell anyways.

 

[Sram]

I just managed to kill the Capra Demon and I'm on my way now to the Depths. After several tries and some grinding I had one try I killed both dogs and then he was no threat any more. I have one question: I'm bad at staying Human because of dying so often so I stay all the time hollow. I know the drop chance of items is reduced in Hollow form, so am I somehow in a disadvantage? I'm afraid I miss out loot that could benefit me drastically.

 

[AlternatePFG]

Now that I've bought the game in full, I really have a question: How exactly does magic in this game work? I have a pyromancy spell bought, and item to use it, but I can't equip the spell at the bonfire. What are the prerequisites?

 

[krazykidd]

I'm also stuck at the new lando boss , i'm lvl 60 and can't for the life of me kill it .

Spoiler

I managed to do it easily with a heavy set of lightning resistant gear + a lightning weapon, and beating Smough first. I then just sat directly under his skinny buddy and was only ever hit by his lightning jump... which I only took about a vitality worth of damage from with my shield up (was using Havards stuff)Just make sure you have enough stamina to block it, and back up a bit when he does jump.

Oh i meant new londo , abyss ,four kings , i suceeded by rushing them with a 2 hand spear , and the inner flame pyromancy spell, manage to kill each before the next spawn , kinda a dps race was fun, except for the 4 hours i spent dying lol

. But the tip you gave me for ando londo was helpful, until second boss went all mega berserk when smoogh died . Decided to do the oposite ...left smough for last , since he has less hp ( or takes more damage ). Anyways , it took 10 flasks and 7 humanities ( which offered to my covenant afterwards ) but i got it done , that fight was a ***** , for me at least . I honestly think i suck as this game lol , but i keep pushing and keep getting further.

 

[Runding]

Here are my thoughts after 16 hours of play so far.

I can't recall a game in recent memory where I have felt such a range of emotions while playing. At times I'm dreading the unknown around the next corner. At other times I feel like a bad ass while swatting down waves of enemies after I've mastered certain sections. I also can't describe the euphoric feeling you get from taking down a boss that felt borderline impossible and acquiring cool loot.

With that being said, I can't help but scratch my head in regards to some of the development decisions. At times I truly feel that the devs went overboard with this so called high "difficulty".

A perfect example of this is the placement of game breaking enemies that can "curse", without any nearby access to any of the cures to remove the negative status effects. In case someone doesn't know, the curse halves your health every time you are affected by the attack which can also stack. So if you get cursed once your health goes to 1/2 health, then 1/4 and 1/8 respectively. The game is difficult enough without having to deal with this problem, and having to back track hours to get back to the beginning of the game to find the "cure" is so difficult that many players are forced to restart the game as most enemies can simply 1 shot you with the reduced health.

Before anyone points out that it's easy to avoid being cursed, that's not the point. As many people have already pointed out, the enemy AI is far from perfect, and the enemies often see you across the map and end up in areas that are impossible to avoid- such as curse spewing Basilisks clumping up under the ladders in the Great Hollow.

In the game's defense, there are only a few sections in the game where you have to worry about this problem. However, in a game that's predicated on "trial and error", why wouldn't the devs put a cure near these areas? Why is the merchant literally hours away in unreachable areas?

In my opinion this game could have been a true masterpiece. I can honestly say that DS is one of the "better" games that I have played this year. However, with that being said, there are too many instances where I feel the game is too frustrating for it's own good.

There are so many things the game does right, but these types of design flaws ruin the experience. There is nothing wrong with the "trial-and-error" type design of the game where death awaits around every corner until you learn to deal with each section, however having basically permanent status affects that can't be removed takes things too far.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I'm also stuck at the new lando boss , i'm lvl 60 and can't for the life of me kill it .

Spoiler

I managed to do it easily with a heavy set of lightning resistant gear + a lightning weapon, and beating Smough first. I then just sat directly under his skinny buddy and was only ever hit by his lightning jump... which I only took about a vitality worth of damage from with my shield up (was using Havards stuff)Just make sure you have enough stamina to block it, and back up a bit when he does jump.

Oh i meant new londo , abyss ,four kings , i suceeded by rushing them with a 2 hand spear , and the inner flame pyromancy spell, manage to kill each before the next spawn , kinda a dps race was fun, except for the 4 hours i spent dying lol

. But the tip you gave me for ando londo was helpful, until second boss went all mega berserk when smoogh died . Decided to do the oposite ...left smough for last , since he has less hp ( or takes more damage ). Anyways , it took 10 flasks and 7 humanities ( which offered to my covenant afterwards ) but i got it done , that fight was a ***** , for me at least . I honestly think i suck as this game lol , but i keep pushing and keep getting further.

The Four Kings is destroying me. Do I really have to just run in recklessly and go berserk to beat them? That goes against everything that the game has taught me. And yes, the Orstein and Smough fight was a *****.

 

[ultrachicken]

OT: Rented this game for yesterday and I had to return it today. Really liked it, got the first bell rung and started going to the sewers. I got to the Gaping Dragon, but didn't go through the fog because I had a relatively large amount of souls. Hopefully it will be cheaper around Black Friday and I'll pick it up then. If not, probably wait until Christmas.

Question Time: Does the Zweihander scale with the attack levels, or would I just be better off staying with the Drake Sword when I get back to the game? I'm at around 17 str and 14 dex.
Also, is there any way to sell stuff, or do I just drop it and hope it's not important?

I don't know if someone has answered your questions yet, but whatever.

The Zweihander scales fairly poorly with strength, and barely scales at all with dexterity. I don't recommend that weapon unless you have an upgrade path in mind that involves divine, magic or enchanted weaponry.

You should stick to the Drake Sword, but work on upgrading another weapon to your liking as you progress. The Drake Sword doesn't scale at all and cannot be made to, so it will not be very useful later on.

After you ring both bells of awakening, you'll meet a rather... strange NPC in Firelink whom you can sell your stuff to. I don't want to spoil it, so just go on that information.

So now we want to severely penalise players for not being good at guessing the abritrary moves and attacks and processes in a game? What do you suggest: if you die, the game uploads a virus onto your hd? Your console explodes? The publishers come round and shoot your mother?
The problem with arbitrary difficulty settings is that people are not arbitrary difficulty consumers; everyone's different. What's hard for some is easy for others and vice versa. This is the first mistake the devs made. But yes in the end the game is simply a case of knowing how things work and timing (and endurance, since stamina is the most important stat bar none).
It's just tedious.
I don't want tediousness programmed into my gaming experience. I want enjoyment and reward for my effort. If i can't get that i'll just switch off and do something else. I don't accord anything more to the experienc of playign a game than is deserved. Dark Souls is no more or less a game than Tetris, Pong, or Call of Duty or Dragon Age.

What is so arbitrary about the attack patterns of enemies? If you see an enemy raise their weapon, you know they're going to swing it. If an enemy lurches back and opens their mouth, you know they're going to spit something nasty at you. If an enemy pulls their bowstring, they're probably going to shoot you. You have dodging, blocking, parrying, and interrupting at your disposal to defend yourself. How is any of this different than any other game? Unless you're simply whining about the penalty for failing to defend yourself, to which I say bullshit. I've only encountered two bosses so far that had a one hit kill maneuver; one was way above my level and the other could have easily been countered if I'd stacked some fire defense. If you aren't killed by an attack, all you have to do is find a safe place for two seconds so you can pop an estus flask.

And if you can find a game that rewards your effort more than Dark Souls, share it with me, because that sounds like an incredible game. When I defeat some boss that's been giving me trouble in Dark Souls, not only is their immense euphoria associated with that victory, but there is the souls that you receive, the crafting items, and weapons that go towards making your character progressively more and more badass, while the NPCs around you slowly come to recognize your power. Hell, even the jerkass you meet in Firelink warms up to you after a while.

 

[Kevlar Eater]

I've never played Demon's Souls, primarily because I don't own a PS3 (or intend to, with Sony's EULA basically saying I don't own the damn thing), so I was clearly missing out on a gem, so I got this game a couple of days ago. I started off as a wanderer because I liked fast characters with finesse and acrobatic combat styles, but all I got was trounced for even trying. I managed to get to the Undead Burg, get my ass handed to me so many times (and I had such ridiculously shitty equipment and low strength level that killing enemies was an impossibility) I deleted that character and started over as a warrior, and my experience, as of now, is so much better.

I also hate this game because I'm stuck in the Undead Parish with no way to advance without being slaughtered by the Titanite Demon. I really don't like bosses that can 1-2 hit me while basically being invulnerable to my efforts and having obscene amounts of health to boot. That's not gameplay design; that's just fucked up.

 

[QueenOliver]

Just got to the tomb of the giants. It's my most hated area now... AND I got invaded right away.

Do you have the Cast Light sorcery? It will make your life much easier in that area until you get the lantern. You get it from the Dusk of Oolacile who you unlock by killing the Golden Golem mentioned earlier in the thread.

I inched my way through until I got the lantern, but I wouldn't have had enough faith for the spell anyways.

You need intelligence, not faith.

 

[QueenOliver]

Now that I've bought the game in full, I really have a question: How exactly does magic in this game work? I have a pyromancy spell bought, and item to use it, but I can't equip the spell at the bonfire. What are the prerequisites?

For pyromancy, the only stat you need is attunement, which gives you more attunement slots. Whichever sorceries, pyromancies, or miracles you wish to equip will fill these slots. Sorceries will also have a certain intelligence requirement, while miracles require faith.

 

[QueenOliver]

Now that I've bought the game in full, I really have a question: How exactly does magic in this game work? I have a pyromancy spell bought, and item to use it, but I can't equip the spell at the bonfire. What are the prerequisites?

For pyromancy, the only stat you need is attunement, which gives you more attunement slots. Whichever sorceries, pyromancies, or miracles you wish to equip will fill these slots. Sorceries will also have a certain intelligence requirement, while miracles require faith.

EDIT: Agh, double post.

 

[Bat Vader]

What is so arbitrary about the attack patterns of enemies? If you see an enemy raise their weapon, you know they're going to swing it. If an enemy lurches back and opens their mouth, you know they're going to spit something nasty at you. If an enemy pulls their bowstring, they're probably going to shoot you. You have dodging, blocking, parrying, and interrupting at your disposal to defend yourself. How is any of this different than any other game? Unless you're simply whining about the penalty for failing to defend yourself, to which I say bullshit. I've only encountered two bosses so far that had a one hit kill maneuver; one was way above my level and the other could have easily been countered if I'd stacked some fire defense. If you aren't killed by an attack, all you have to do is find a safe place for two seconds so you can pop an estus flask.

And if you can find a game that rewards your effort more than Dark Souls, share it with me, because that sounds like an incredible game. When I defeat some boss that's been giving me trouble in Dark Souls, not only is their immense euphoria associated with that victory, but there is the souls that you receive, the crafting items, and weapons that go towards making your character progressively more and more badass, while the NPCs around you slowly come to recognize your power. Hell, even the jerkass you meet in Firelink warms up to you after a while.

Attack patterns vary enormously. Sometimes the zombie raising his sword will swing once, easy enough. Sometimes he'll swing in a massive stabbing frenzy or he will suddenly speed up his attack animation. Some moves track, others don't (actually most do, it's pretty cheap).
For the umpteenth time (as you peopl seem incapable of grasping simple english): it isn't that the enemies are tough that's the problem with the game.
A single arbitrary choice of difficulty is a meaningless design choice. It's self limiting and counter productive. One person's brutal difficulty is another person's easy game. What matters is how the game handles difficulty and how it penalises the player in terms of failure. IN this case, the player is forced into the most tedious mind numbing boring repetition for no reason. People that enjoy this need their heads tested.
Telling me that i'm 'whining' because you are too stupid to understand what i've written, in clear fucking english (a language you yanks need to learn) is taking the piss. Don't sit their and hide your insults behind niceties and pretend you have the moral high ground. You don't.
Most games reward your efforts more than Dark Souls. The only reward this game gives you is a slight change in scenery. THere is no depth to this experience, the layout of the 'open world', as was touted, is linear and the lack of tools for the player is a joke. I could punch myself in the face fifteen times and feel a sense of reward, less pain in my jaw for starters, just because I stopped punching myself in the face. This notion of reward is disingenuous at best. Sure you might punch the air having beatn THE GREAT MONSTER OF DOOM but if you've spent ten hours previously trying to do so then it's not much of a victory is it.
The fact this game is so badly made is just icing on the cake.

There is no need to insult people over this. If you don't enjoy the game that is fine. There is no reason to insult the people that do enjoy it. There is no need to risk getting suspended or banned over this.