Devs Had to Demand Female Focus Testers for The Last of Us

[UberPubert]

Id agree as legend of zelda is also a common pick amongst the womenz. Id say that immersion into another world is probably the main factor over testing your skills which is what would appeal to your "common" man.(ie: your twitch shot in cod etc)

Yeah, now that I think of it, the pool of universally appealing genres extends to adventure games, and even platformers. It's mostly shooters (test of virtual marksmanship), action and fighting games (tests of sick combos) I hear about having limited appeal, followed by complaints about them being hopelessly machismo, but I don't see it past the surface level (guns, violence, muscles, yelling, etc).

 

[Meg Galuardi]

Honestly is this really that suprising? I mean considering that the gender ratio of people who buy any given game is probably something like 9:1 in favor of males, is it really surprising that a market research firm decided to go with the (vastly) larger audience? They're hired to gauge sales potential, after all, not uphold gender equality.

Actually the gender ratio is closer to 35-65 according to stats from the entertainment software asociation, so that's a pretty decent chunk of their audience...

 

[Jamous]

Good for Naughty Dog! I'm very glad that they're very much sticking to their ideas with this. It's an outrageous amount of bullshit that we still have this thinking in the industry. I hope The Last Of Us does as well as it deserves to. I know I'll be buying it.

 

[rbstewart7263]

Id agree as legend of zelda is also a common pick amongst the womenz. Id say that immersion into another world is probably the main factor over testing your skills which is what would appeal to your "common" man.(ie: your twitch shot in cod etc)

Yeah, now that I think of it, the pool of universally appealing genres extends to adventure games, and even platformers. It's mostly shooters (test of virtual marksmanship), action and fighting games (tests of sick combos) I hear about having limited appeal, followed by complaints about them being hopelessly machismo, but I don't see it past the surface level (guns, violence, muscles, yelling, etc).

I think that if you made a game that was more immersive but still tested your skill level(hawken comes to mind we got a few good females in beta with us) then that would hold more universal appeal.

 

[nexus]

Can I ask why this is being labeled as "rampant sexism"? It's more likely that there just isn't a contingent of females seeking work as focus testers, in the company Naughty Dog uses. It is probably that benign.

I mean seriously, the coordinated effort to label everything misogynist, and sexist by gaming "journalism" has reached the creepy-tier. On some days, it seems like every journalist lets out an article about "sexism" on the very same day, like every blog site belongs to a syndicated Rupert Murdoch agenda-scandal.

 

[somonels]

That's the most valid criticism about the state of women in the game industry that I've seen to date unless there really aren't any female focus testers available.

 

[UberPubert]

I think that if you made a game that was more immersive but still tested your skill level(hawken comes to mind we got a few good females in beta with us) then that would hold more universal appeal.

Ooh, free to play mech game? Count me in.

On topic: To be absolutely clear I don't think there's any game women can't like, it's just that the majority of them might not, and that doesn't have to be a problem for anyone. I think these games can co-exist with ones with broader appeal without trying to become them.

 

[SteewpidZombie]

Female here, not sure I understand the problem. Why do they need to specifically find out what women think, they're not specifically finding out what men think of the game, are they?
Surely they were going to get a random sample of gamers to beta test the game and give feedback which, being from a random sample, would include female gamers views.

Here is a general idea of how a guy might design a game (Also about 99% of all fantasy games):

Guy 1: "Okay, we need to design a male character for this game".

Guy 2: "How about a 7'foot tall badass viking, wielding a broadsword and wearing full armor?".

Guy 1: "FANTASTIC IDEA! Now how about a female character?"

Guy 2: "We could try a strong and smart female knight who carries a sword and shield!"

Guy 3: "Or...we could make her into a cheap stripper who wears nothing but a leather thong and bra, coupled with over-the-top acrobatics and arming her with a BDSM whip?"

Guy 1: "STRIPPER IT IS!"




So I support Naughty Dog in the decision to get input from both genders, because it also allows them to make the game more realistic and less of how men THINK women are. Especially since as guys we don't fully know how a girl may or may-not react to something we personally find funny or awesome. A lesson I've slowly been learning from my girlfriend (like for example: I learned that farting is hilarious regardless of gender, and that YES women can also find boobs to be totally awesome. Also that I suck horribly at Pokemon and even my GF laughs at my love for Magikarp).

 

[telaros]

Now if only Levine had the balls and the heart to fight for the actual lead character in his game, and not give the game the impression of wanting to be a cheap ripoff of Bruce Campbell's Evil Dead box art... than maybe I wouldn't have decided to wait fo r that eventual 75% off sale before throwing down movie for it.

Sadly, marketers are still in that 'females don't play or care about video games' stink mentality. Just glad some devs have the guts to stand up to fight to get their games out there the way it was intended to look and feel. First impressions are everything, and Bioshock Infinite would in no way been harmed had they actually let the lead character be on the front cover. No, not that evil dead hail to the king wannabe dude... he was support!

 

[UberPubert]

Here is a general idea of how a guy might design a game (Also about 99% of all fantasy games):

Guy 1: "Okay, we need to design a male character for this game".

Guy 2: "How about a 7'foot tall badass viking, wielding a broadsword and wearing full armor?".

Guy 1: "FANTASTIC IDEA! Now how about a female character?"

Guy 2: "We could try a strong and smart female knight who carries a sword and shield!"

Guy 3: "Or...we could make her into a cheap stripper who wears nothing but a leather thong and bra, coupled with over-the-top acrobatics and arming her with a BDSM whip?"

Guy 1: "STRIPPER IT IS!"

Where can I buy this game?

 

[SteewpidZombie]

Here is a general idea of how a guy might design a game (Also about 99% of all fantasy games):

Guy 1: "Okay, we need to design a male character for this game".

Guy 2: "How about a 7'foot tall badass viking, wielding a broadsword and wearing full armor?".

Guy 1: "FANTASTIC IDEA! Now how about a female character?"

Guy 2: "We could try a strong and smart female knight who carries a sword and shield!"

Guy 3: "Or...we could make her into a cheap stripper who wears nothing but a leather thong and bra, coupled with over-the-top acrobatics and arming her with a BDSM whip?"

Guy 1: "STRIPPER IT IS!"

Where can I buy this game?

Print off a list of all major MMO's and RPG's released in the past 10 years. Take a dart and toss it at the list. You'll have a good 9 outta 10 chance of getting that game.

 

[UberPubert]

Print off a list of all major MMO's and RPG's released in the past 10 years. Take a dart and toss it at the list. You'll have a good 9 outta 10 chance of getting that game.

Well, I can't recall many games where I get to play as a viking, never-mind a seven foot tall one. Guild Wars 2 comes close with the Norn, and I suppose there are the Nords in Skyrim, but neither of those games are really big on women in BDSM gear and armed with whips. Though I do notice the Sylvari are rather lacking in attire, the humans seem quite modest.

Besides that I don't really see any. The worst offender in recent memory is demon forge, but in that one the man is actually just wearing a simple leather harness and tight leather pants, and his more agile female companion is wearing much less, though she uses a bow rather than a whip. Also, the game was universally panned for just being crap in general.

 

[JudgeGame]

Female here, not sure I understand the problem. Why do they need to specifically find out what women think, they're not specifically finding out what men think of the game, are they?
Surely they were going to get a random sample of gamers to beta test the game and give feedback which, being from a random sample, would include female gamers views.

If you had bothered to read the article before posting you would have noticed they said the research firm wasn't planning on asking ANY women.

 

[JudgeGame]

Unnamed research firm?

How is that considered a valid enough source to warrant a claim such as this? This is no different from the unnamed publishers who Jim mentioned in his video a couple of weeks ago. No names or companies are mentioned in regards to who actually said or done these things, so as far as news reporting goes, it has no validity.

If it is true, I understand the reaction, and agree that it is completely wrong, but as it stands, I don't understand the knee-jerk responses to completely unverified sources.

I don't think you understand how journalism works at all.

 

[JudgeGame]

That's the most valid criticism about the state of women in the game industry that I've seen to date unless there really aren't any female focus testers available.

FYI, there are no qualifications required for being a focus tester.

 

[SteewpidZombie]

Print off a list of all major MMO's and RPG's released in the past 10 years. Take a dart and toss it at the list. You'll have a good 9 outta 10 chance of getting that game.

Well, I can't recall many games where I get to play as a viking, never-mind a seven foot tall one. Guild Wars 2 comes close with the Norn, and I suppose there are the Nords in Skyrim, but neither of those games are really big on women in BDSM gear and armed with whips. Though I do notice the Sylvari are rather lacking in attire, the humans seem quite modest.

Besides that I don't really see any. The worst offender in recent memory is demon forge, but in that one the man is actually just wearing a simple leather harness and tight leather pants, and his more agile female companion is wearing much less, though she uses a bow rather than a whip. Also, the game was universally panned for just being crap in general.

Here is a brief list with pictures included for proof. I'm not gonna bother spending alot of time to go hunt down all the singeplayer games (there are sooo many including non-triple A games that it would take me awhile to sift through them all). So here are just some of the Mainstream/MMO examples.

Tera Online:

Spoiler

Biomeks:

Spoiler

GuildWars2:

Spoiler

World of Warcraft:

Spoiler

The Old Republic:

Spoiler

Skyrim: The default is pretty good, but the modding community changed that. I don't even need pictures, the mods out there go above and beyond.

Now these (With the exception of Skyrim) are all online and (usually) reward the most revealing armor at higher levels. I will however admit that more recent games like The Old Republic and Skyrim have managed to keep it tasteful and less sex-infused compared to other games. Old Republic just has a selection of revealing armors, and that one Leia Slave outfit (Yes that's a actual clothing item you can wear in the game). While games like Skyrim are immediately pounced upon by modders to make the sexy and NSFW stuff.

 

[Sectan]

That box art thing just angers me.

But at least they didn't give in like they did with Bioshock Infinite.

I find it rather appalling that this "no women in the focus testing or on the cover" thing isn't just an oversight, but an active and systematic endeavor by publishers. I suppose it makes sense that none of this is an accident, but still. It's rather disturbing. Or "creepy," as I believe Jim Sterling worded it.

I realize these actions stem from a desire to make money rather than actual misogyny, but I still can't help but feel this way when I hear of devs fighting tooth and nail for things that I never realized was even a problem. If I'd realized my gender was going to be such a problem for the games industry, I would have avoided the mistake of not being a white, heterosexual male between the ages of 18 and 30.

Here's what I don't understand. Don't women make up about 50% or so of the population? Why WOULDN'T you want to have a focus group with women in it? Besides getting a broader focus group, you're just getting more people in there. Plus seeing what both men and women like or who responds better to something would help with marketing wouldn't it?

 

[CrystalShadow]

Honestly is this really that suprising? I mean considering that the gender ratio of people who buy any given game is probably something like 9:1 in favor of males, is it really surprising that a market research firm decided to go with the (vastly) larger audience? They're hired to gauge sales potential, after all, not uphold gender equality.

Yes, except 2010 demographic research on gaming (admittedly using a much broader definition than what is thought of as the 'core' gamer), showed that it broke down as follows:
Most gamers were over 30 (most as in more than 50%)
And, 42% were female.

Now, if you're considering a specific subgroup, then yes, your ratio might hold, but given the data as a whole, pretending that '42%' is such a small group as to be insignificant is pretty stupid, and as a marketer would mean you are deliberately missing out on the opportunity to broaden your audience into territory the data shows does exist.

If you know 40% of the market is over the age of 20, but design games strictly with the assumption that only those under 10 will ever buy or play them, what do you expect the end result to be?

 

[Vrach]

Cool, but not sure if this is an industry-wide issue, I have a female friend who worked over at Ubisoft as a tester on a few games, they didn't seem to care about gender there.