Dick Souls

[Blood Brain Barrier]

The appeal of this game IS about feeling how good you are. I've never seen this game discussed outside the context of its difficulty, how tough it was on the player and how good you were to complete it.

It's the ultimate elitist's game.

Apparently, because people who enjoy the game in different ways are, well... enjoying the game instead of posting on the forums.
For them Dark Souls is something different.
For me the ultimate Dark Souls moment is when I become so mesmerized by something, that I forget to fight. And Dark Souls does that a lot. But there's no point in speaking about such moments because they work best on the unaware person. Spoilers, duh.
Most of the stuff one can discuss about the game besides the "git gud" part is spoilerific to some extent. That's the nature of the game - it's ultimately about discovery. And that's why you don't see it much.
Best thing about Dark Souls is the deep and atmospheric world that you learn to know by heart. Let's put it this way.

It's really not about discovery. It's about fighting shit. There are actual games about discovery, but they are unpopular. If Dark Souls did not have "fighting cool shit" as the main activity, it too would be unpopular.

 

[archvile93]

snip

Actually the only games where it gets harder if you die are Demon's Souls where dying in "human form" effects tendency, making the enemies harder, and Dark Souls 2, where you gradually lose health. I don't like Dark Souls 2, but in Demon's Souls you can change tendency to make the game easier, albeit in a kind of roundabout way (Helping people beat bosses while being summoned). Also invasions are restricted by level, and there's no way to pass gear onto your own lower level characters. You could hack, or you could go through the whole late game at a low level to get really good gear, but either way most people aren't willing to do that. The best PvP as far as I'm concerned is either two people at very high level or PvP builds that are completely impractical and just meant to leave an impression. I think Dark Souls 1 is the most "fair" of the Souls games, and yeah, the port has issues (I never really had any aside from a 30 FPS max), and mouse and keyboard support isn't great, but since when do 3D action games have good mouse and keyboard support? Would you play Devil May Cry with mouse and keyboard?

Preferably no, but I also wouldn't pay $120 for one game, and no I wouldn't use the controller for much else, assuming I used it for anything. If the game has at least decent M & KB, then I can at tolerate it enough to look past the somewhat akward controls. If they're horrible then that's a deal breaker.

 

[Lillowh]

I'm trying to decide if playing Dark Souls with a Rock Band controller or a steering-wheel and pedal set would be more intuitive.

Ask this guy. He might know.

Using controllers? What are you, someone's fuckin' grandma? REAL Souls players only use the Kinect. With their hands tied behind their back.

I mean, if we're on the topic of dick waving contests someone pretty much did nearly exactly that.
That's using a program called "Voice Attack." He beat the entire game using it, and that comes with the inherent delay of speaking as well as the delay the program itself takes to interpret and execute the commands.

It's really not about discovery. It's about fighting shit. There are actual games about discovery, but they are unpopular. If Dark Souls did not have "fighting cool shit" as the main activity, it too would be unpopular.

You're confusing games who's only component is discovery along the lines of gone home with something that has a very rewarding component of discovery based on the world and level design along the lines of a Super Metroid/Metroidvania, or a Zelda game in the shade of 1 and Link to the Past onward (mostly).

Yes, to say it's not about the combat is far too reductionist from an outside perspective. The combat is a core component of the game, and can be very rewarding in a variety of ways (hand eye coordination, strategy, perception, etc), however it's understandable that mentally it would take a backseat to some players. It provides a constant force to persevere against and get to those elements that those discovery games have, but alongside something that is also mechanically satisfying, or at least satisfactory.

Much like a fantasy adventure novel, the conflict is the driving force behind the progression of the main thread of the tale. Vast or striking environments pique your interest and you look to learn more about them and the ones who inhabit it. The game's director, Miyazaki, has stated a lot of his inspiration has come from reading western fantasy novels. However, English was not his first language so pieces and details were lost in his reading of the stories, leading him to find connecting lines to create a more cohesive if less explicitly solid narrative. Item descriptions in dark souls are often vague, maybe one or two sentences referencing a place, event or person. Keen observation of where the items where found, the surrounding environment of the itme, what other items they could possibly relate to, and who they were found on piques a set of intrigue in certain people and becomes their passion about the game. While there are games where a similar take on doing things is the main purpose, like Gone Home, they are often much shorter, smaller in scope, and quite different thematically. For something unique to the medium of video games, observance of your environment and mentally mapping areas lead more perceptive players to obscured or cleverly placed pathways, appealing to a group of people who enjoy being rewarded for their sharp awareness.

The combat is a draw for many players, and is thematically and conceptually important for building certain aspects of the world. For a good number of other people, it's not, and is there to serve a purpose to work towards what they want from the game. The real meat for many lies in what they want to take out of the game.

 

[SixMaJin]

It's really not about discovery. It's about fighting shit. There are actual games about discovery, but they are unpopular. If Dark Souls did not have "fighting cool shit" as the main activity, it too would be unpopular.

Have you actually played the game? Dark Souls IS about discovery, that's why people love the interconnected leveldesign in Dark Souls 1, that's the number one reason i played the game, the difficulty is merely, let me use GlaDos words to describe it: "note that any appearance of danger is merely a device to enhance your testing experience. "
Exploring new areas is so much more rewarding, for any underestimated enemy or careless step could mean the end of your way. Every aspect of the game is about exploration, not only is it very nonlinear, you also have to dig deep to get to the actual story of the world, you have to explore all possible enemy-movements, you have to explore the different ways your weapons and armor make you able to fight those enemies.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

It's really not about discovery. It's about fighting shit. There are actual games about discovery, but they are unpopular. If Dark Souls did not have "fighting cool shit" as the main activity, it too would be unpopular.

Have you actually played the game? Dark Souls IS about discovery, that's why people love the interconnected leveldesign in Dark Souls 1, that's the number one reason i played the game, the difficulty is merely, let me use GlaDos words to describe it: "note that any appearance of danger is merely a device to enhance your testing experience. "
Exploring new areas is so much more rewarding, for any underestimated enemy or careless step could mean the end of your way. Every aspect of the game is about exploration, not only is it very nonlinear, you also have to dig deep to get to the actual story of the world, you have to explore all possible enemy-movements, you have to explore the different ways your weapons and armor make you able to fight those enemies.

I guess I don't find that kind of discovery very interesting. Finding ways to make my virtual dick bigger isn't satisfying to me. Discovery as in Myst or The Witness, relating to an overarching story or theme, and the accompanying challenge of that task, is much more satisfying to me.

I did not need to play Dark Souls for very long before reaching this conclusion.

 

[SixMaJin]

I guess I don't find that kind of discovery very interesting. Finding ways to make my virtual dick bigger isn't satisfying to me. Discovery as in Myst or The Witness, relating to an overarching story or theme, and the accompanying challenge of that task, is much more satisfying to me.

Okay, so then everyone who plays games that include fighting mechanics without what you would call a "story" is playing to make his virtual dick bigger? Aren't you a bit narrow minded? Especially for a gamer?

Back to Dark Souls: Overarching story or theme: check. Challenge: check. Btw: Is there any frikkin other way of exploration?

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

I guess I don't find that kind of discovery very interesting. Finding ways to make my virtual dick bigger isn't satisfying to me. Discovery as in Myst or The Witness, relating to an overarching story or theme, and the accompanying challenge of that task, is much more satisfying to me.

Okay, so then everyone who plays games that include fighting mechanics without what you would call a "story" is playing to make his virtual dick bigger?

Isn't that a no-brainer? You're working to self-improve your virtual avatar in those kind of games. I don't see what's narrow minded about stating the facts.

Back to Dark Souls: Overarching story or theme: check. Challenge: check. Btw: Is there any frikkin other way of exploration?

What do you mean? Running around an empty world filled with "enemies" and uncovering the logic of the environment are two very different kinds of exploration.

 

[SixMaJin]

Isn't that a no-brainer? You're working to self-improve your virtual avatar in those kind of games. I don't see what's narrow minded about stating the facts.

What the heck are you talking about? Every RPG ever made? MMORPGs? Since we were talking about Dark Souls' fighting mechanics, i assume we were talking about action games. Or at least i was talking while you are stating your generalized and superficial opinions as facts. Btw., the so called "story" is overrated, just go and ask Scorsese. Or watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrkHyvl5NeI
There are lots of reasons people play games, stating that everyone who likes to play Dark Souls does it for enhancing his e-penis is amazingly narrow minded and insulting. Stating ones opinion as facts, ironically, is also pretty narrow-minded, are you religious btw.?
Do you know why you play games? Or are you already satisfied with some skinner-box rewards and don't even know what keeps pushing you? Do you need your stories painted out for you in every detail and without room for interpretation?

What do you mean? Running around an empty world filled with "enemies" and uncovering the logic of the environment are two very different kinds of exploration.

No, they enhance one another. Just go and ask GlaDos. And i ask you to give me some examples for a game without what you call an "empty world". And what makes Dark Souls an "empty world" in your eyes, and what other game with real-time fighting mechanics (melee and/or shooting) do not have an empty world? And why?

 

[Arnoxthe1]

Back in ma' day, people who braved Ninja Gaiden II (For the 360.) were the tough kids on the block.

Man, I miss the good Ninja Gaiden games... >_>