Did Mass Effect Steal It's Story Outright?!

Canid117

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Starke said:
Canid117 said:
Starke said:
Canid117 said:
Starke said:
Fr said:
anc[is]Not taking sides yet, just wanted to point out that the ancient race's tech thing is pretty common. Precursors from Star Control come to mind.
Yeah, but we're in Starship Troopers is to Armor type territory here, not just random themes popping up again.
I want to see a starship troopers movie that actually represents Robert Heinlein's Novel. Not an hour and a half long cheap shot at military service which serves the same purpose as shitting on the original authors grave.
I have political differences with Mr. Heinlein when it comes to models of government, but, yeah a more faithful adaptation would have been nice.
Same. It isn't that I agree with the man on all counts. It's just that there is this little thing called respect. You don't take an authors seminal work and hit him in the nuts with the ashes after you have set the book on fire and pissed on it to put out the flames.
Yeah, respect I can defiantly understand and get behind. It always struck me as a little strange that there wasn't an attempt to tie the Starship Troopers movie into the Aliens franchise, honestly.
Actually the original book is a little more along the lines of a Japanese Mecha anime than either aliens or its movie translation. All the human soldiers are going around in robotic suits with heavy machine guns and mini nukes fighting giant insect aliens. Think the robot suits in Avatar with on board missile launchers only every soldier is using one. How has that not been made into a movie yet?
 

TsunamiWombat

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Of course it's a ripoff. It's a genero sci fi universe with a genero villain. But it's still a spectacular game and spectacularly polished, and it's in the polish and the details that a true story lies - not the general theme. Theme's are ancient, they go back as far as man has been writing. It's the details that change.
 

Akalistos

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Blindswordmaster said:
Akalistos said:
Blindswordmaster said:
Akalistos said:
Blindswordmaster said:
Akalistos said:
Blindswordmaster said:
Akalistos said:
Blindswordmaster said:
Should Kevin Costner sue James Cameron for ripping off Dances with Wolves when he made Avatar? No. People also say that Mass Effect is a rip off of Star Control 2. Some stories are as old as time, they just get retold over and over again.
-Star Wars. Star Wars' story is older than recorded history. Should George Lucas be sued? The answer is no.
It depend how much is plagiarism. If they took the whole series and turn it into a video game... Yes! James Cameron did it. It's the writer that should sue, not Costner. You legaly own the story that you produce and therefore, you should make money if someone use it.

Star Wars is nothing more than the Black knight story in space, it didn't rip enough of the story to really be in trouble, Bioware Fanboy! How much copying a source does it take to become plagiarism? When the plot, setting and character are the same. In this case, it his.

Also, Fanboy, Don't defend Bioware.... Like Yahtzee said, they are big boy that doesn't need defending
I was just making a joke with the Kevin Costner thing. Also, most Disney movies share very similar plot threads. I was just trying to say that some plot threads run throughout human fiction. I really liked the expansion of fictional archetypes in Lady in the Water(though it sucked).
-And you did not just call me a fanboy!
If you were trying to use sarcasm in a post, i salute you. I didn't catch any of it. Basically, you have to give an intonation of voice that is either silly or dumb to make it look like sarcasm. And if it were your goal, you pick your medium poorly. Of Course i believed that your a fanboy. Why wouldn't I? This seem like a angry, bitter post were you defended your game company like his own child.

As for story, as long as you can push it aways from the material you base it on, that not plagiarism. Making the story of Artur and the round table through the eye of the Lady in the Water, that different. I resently saw a book that was call: Before Captain Hook, the adventure of a small boy. Story revolve around how the hell Hook got to Neverland and why he became a pirate. Beside using the protagonist from PETER PAN, that not the same. But if i were to write the story of a young orphan that learn magic in a academy, Would you not call Plagiarism?
Depends on several story and character variables. If your story is in Britain, your character has a mysterious destiny, he goes to a magical academy and he uses a wand to fight a "Dark Lord", then I'll probably call you out on it.
-I was just trying to make a sarcastic joke. I really thought that my claim would be so ridiculous that everyone would disagree with it, seeing it as a joke. I now see that I'm obviously not funny. I'll stop trying to be now.
-I said that people say that Mass Effect is just like Star Control 2. I've never played that game so I wouldn't actually know. I was just passing along 3rd party opinions.
No, don't stop joking... if you do however, make sure to you my trademark [Sarcasm] mark! That replace pitch and delivery making other people get your irony or sarcasm. Also, it FREE!
I don't use [Sarcasm] for the same reason that I don't use LOL. If I have to tell people that I'm joking, I've obviously failed in my attempts at comedy.
But you fail anyways because comedy because two important thing in comedy: Timing and delivery! We can't see your sarcastic tone in a post so you failed with delivery. That why i use either exaggeration: "Man, that make so much sense i think i'm tripping. Woo! Look at the butterflies. Sorry man, i have to go and watch my hand grow for half an hour." or my sarcastic mark: [sarcasm]
"But you fail anyways" Wow; this comment perfectly sums up my life. Maybe you are right, but labeling your jokes as jokes just seems to go against the first law of stand-up:never laugh to your own jokes. I'd feel like I'd be putting up a big "Applause" sign over my comments; making people laugh because they feel like they have to rather than because they're actually entertained.
-Also, be careful who you call a fanboy. It's like calling someone a ************; you never really know how someone will react to it. Some see it as a high compliment and a term of endearment; while others view it as the ultimate insult. Since I consider a fanboy to be someone who vehemently defends something without an actual counter argument or any logic what-so-ever, I have to tell you that them's fighin words.
-On an earlier note: Sometimes I really like the look on someone's face(or the tone of their text) when they have to ask me if I'm joking. Like when I tell them that I don't need another assault charge(which I really don't, that shit stays on your record).
Yeah, the first rule.... Wait? Wasn't the first rule never explain your joke because it lose the comedic value of the joke? That Would be number 2. Well, about the applause thing, you got to remember, there people that get it and those who don't. You make those who don't feel dumb sometime when you don't do it. Look at live comedy show(example:WHO LINE IS THIS ANYWAYS), they used it. Not for the ones that found it funny and laughed. It for those that didn't get the joke and they can hide themselves in the crowed. There nothing worst then being the only one not laughing.

Fanboy=Insult? OK got that. The true may hurt sometime but it's in your best interest to see what you are and change it. You can't progress in self improvement if you can't face yourself like you are. That's a service i do but I'll be more careful in the future.

You like to see reaction? I'll let you borrow the "Butterfly - It too clear" joke. That's a priceless one! Have fun.
 

FoAmY99

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there is no such thing as originality anymore people. We humans have reached a literary singularity. That is to say pretty much every story told in any medium these days is a version of a template story that was probably written X amount of years ago.
 

Akalistos

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MinishArcticFox said:
Akalistos said:
MinishArcticFox said:
There's only so many ideas out there and even if Bioware did steal the concept (which I doubt they did) they still wrote the characters other alien races made the gameply and expanded it into a trilogy.
Yeah! You tell him.
By the way, i got a novel on the way. It's call Star skirmish! In there, Jame Groundroller is a farmer that want to join the Space Freedom Force. But his oncle and aunt don't... but they get kill fairly early. So, guided by a mysterious fighter call the Royal Monk, he embark on a journey to save Princess Whatsherrname who was capture by a Evil Monk call Dark Toddler inside his forteress: THE DEAD SPHERE! There also a Bounty Hunter call Ted Laulo and and his anthropomorphic cat Bittetica!

(get it?)
I get it I got a kick out of this. Anyway though no story can be 100% original even without intending to copy someone you're bound to. I haven't read it but I'm willing to bet that the story the "stole" didn't have anything similar to asari turians etc. They also have a planned trilogy which I'm not sure the original story had that. Also being game designers they made the gameplay and graphically designed the world. They also wrote characters which I'm guessing didn't exist in the sotry (Liara, Garrus, Mordin, etc). But then again maybe Garrus is supposed to be a reference to the Punisher because he used to be a straight cop, but then he goes outside the law to punish Saleon.
You don't know because you never read it. Even if they add ONE ITEM doesn't made this a new story. If you want, go check the synopsis on Wikipedia. Changing media doesn't change the story. What important is how much similarity there is. If there a blatant rip-off, YEAH. How to you decide what a rip off? Setting - Character - Plots. Those are the basis on which you write the story. There the Parody rule but when it's not funny or meant that way, like Spaceball, it call ripping off. Nudge or Wink can be made, but they shouldn't be part of the whole character and should be brief.

Example of Parodies: What if the story i send you, there joke. Like the monk cutting a bandit arm in a pub with a Laser Bo. The arm fell and there a lot of blood. The bandit say: "F**K me! I always though Laser was Hot." "Me too! Let do it again and see. (slice) Nope! goes to show that you can learn new thing everyday!(falling noise) Let go find a smuggler.) That a parody and it nudge to the fact that in episode 4, a laser cut did make a bandit bleed.

Example of Winks: Garrus or whatever you call it kill a mafioso. Then a guy pop up and say: "Wow, your like a real Super-Hero! You should become one." "Are you mad? Why the hell should i wear my underwear over my pant or paint a skull on my chest?"
That a Wink at the audience because we know that punisher's old costume was a Full body suit with a skull on it, a pair of white underwear over that and a white bandoleer. But that's was in the 90e series of Spider-Man, i recall.

Also, as blatant as it is in Avatar, you can't say that not Plagiarism. If you are, your nothing more than a FanBoy!
 

unoleian

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SL33TBL1ND said:
Hey, Halo took it's entire concept from Ringworld, it happens all the time man.
Having read Ringworld, I can confidently state the only similarity between the two is a ring-shaped, artificially constructed habitat. In space. The similarities end there. And both can likely draw much inspiration from Dyson constructs. Very strange book, BTW. Not at all what I expected when I picked it up...

As for the ME/book thing, the OP has piqued my curiosity, and now I think I know what's next on my library list...
 

SL33TBL1ND

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unoleian said:
SL33TBL1ND said:
Hey, Halo took it's entire concept from Ringworld, it happens all the time man.
Having read Ringworld, I can confidently state the only similarity between the two is a ring-shaped, artificially constructed habitat. In space. The similarities end there. And both can likely draw much inspiration from Dyson constructs. Very strange book, BTW. Not at all what I expected when I picked it up...

As for the ME/book thing, the OP has piqued my curiosity, and now I think I know what's next on my library list...
Starke said:
SL33TBL1ND said:
Hey, Halo took it's entire concept from Ringworld, it happens all the time man.
Except you know, all it's concepts aside from habitable rings around planets. You may want to brush up on Ringworld, and actually read the novel rather than gazing at the cover.
I know, but I'm just saying that that is a fairly unique concept and the only place they could've gotten that idea from is that book.
 

Arachon

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Revelation Space? As in Alastair Reynolds?

HEH...

Not quite... Reynolds writes the hardest Sci Fi available, Mass Effect on the other hand, is very soft, consistently soft, unlike other Sci Fi works, but still soft, so, no, by and large, it's not very much like Revelation Space.
 

Lepre-Khan

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Blindswordmaster said:
Should Kevin Costner sue James Cameron for ripping off Dances with Wolves when he made Avatar? No. People also say that Mass Effect is a rip off of Star Control 2. Some stories are as old as time, they just get retold over and over again.
-Star Wars. Star Wars' story is older than recorded history. Should George Lucas be sued? The answer is no.
Agreed. Just because something is the first to do something, doesnt mean what it did was popular. Something else can come along that does the exact same thing (or a similiar thing) but make it popular.Plus, the novel isnt exactly wll known out of the 20-30 million people in the UK, so the basic plot isnt exactly what would be called USED ALOT and thus cliched.
 

PopeJewish

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Starke said:
PopeJewish said:
Starke said:
Fr said:
anc[is]Not taking sides yet, just wanted to point out that the ancient race's tech thing is pretty common. Precursors from Star Control come to mind.
Yeah, but we're in Starship Troopers is to Armor type territory here, not just random themes popping up again.
The Starship Troopers movie had (very nearly) nothing to do with the book, and the book's author said he took lots of themes from Armor and was in a way paying homage to it as being a great book.
Because in 1959 Heinlein took themes from a book published in 1984 as a way to honor it... wait... this makes sense to you?

PopeJewish said:
As for previous ancient races leaving behind advanced tech... a LOT of sci-fi does that, from Halo to Stargate. It's nothing new. Stories have been recycled since the beginning of time. Just look at the major religions to tell you that
Yeah, and as I said, there's a hell of a lot more being copied here, but, seeing how your previous paragraph makes sense to you, I can understand how this would as well. It's still, you know, wrong, but, hey.
so I switched the two, sorry. No need to get your panties in a twist. It was test week at school so I was busy making tests/grading tests all damn week. Makes a guy tired.

OT: From what you said it sounded more like general themes being copied than characters and settings and everything, which as I was saying happens all the time. I don't see anything indicating the entire story was stolen "outright" in the way, say, that Disney stole Atlantis from the Japanese anime Nadia.
 

TheLaofKazi

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jakkuss said:
It's the whole 'hero with a thousand faces' deal. There is only one story, only the details change.
Which is sort of what gets to me about so many games, movies, books, ect. It all feels the same to me. I want to see the boundaries of storytelling pushed, and so far I haven't really seen any truly new story ideas in games. I have a feeling there's some really good obscure games that aren't too well known that were really groundbreaking. A lot of great stuff seems to miss the mainstream, it happens with movies, books and music all of the time. I wouldn't be surprised to see that with games.
 

high_castle

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I'll admit, I've just read the OP and not the rest of the posts. But...*facepalm*

I've read not just Revelation Space, but most of the series. Aside from a few superficial similarities (which, by the by, crop up in several space opera franchises), ME does it's own thing. Yes, it borrows heavily from traditional SF tropes, but it also has its own story to tell, unique characters, and few good twists on classic concepts. I say this as a somewhat fan of the series (liked the first one, not so much the second). Whatever you want to say about ME's faults, it's not that it's a cookie cutter copy of Alistair Reynolds' work.
 

spectrenihlus

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Just read the summary to to Revelation Space and from what I have seen I have to say that although some points are similar a lot are vastly different and Mass Effect borrows heavily from a lot of sci-fi classics in order to create something genuinely original.
 

OmegaXzors

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I like this thread. It contributed to my overall mind. Thank you.

As for the story, it's becoming harder and harder to be "unique" with your world.

Anything Sci-Fi now days gets instantly thrown at Star Wars, Star Trek, the Matrix, etc. Anything with orcs gets compared to Lord of the Rings. Why? Popularity! So, all-in-all, I think Mass Effect is safe.
 

teh_gunslinger

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We had this up for a discussion a little over a year ago and I think there was some good points made. If anyone is interested the thread can be found here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.92122-Original-storytelling-in-Mass-Effect-and-gaming-in-general-SPOILERS-INSIDE].

I think that there are a lot of similar themes and ideas, but to claim plagiarism would be too severe. I'm not sure it's a coincidence, but drawing from other works for inspiration is not really a horrible thing.
 

slipknot4

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Generic space story is generic. Happens all the time and please, fix your language. All that cursing is neglecting the content of the post.
 

somedarnguy

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In the beginning there were no stories, as all the stories belonged to Nyame, the Sky God. But Anansi, the Spider wanted to be the owner of the stories so he went to Nyame and asked to buy them.

Nyame Said, "I will sell you the stories, but the price is high. You must bring me Python, Leopard and the Hornets. Then, and only then, will the stories be yours."
Anansi agreed and went home to make his plans.

First, he took a gourd and cut a hole in it. He also took a bowl and filled it with water. He then went to the tree where the hornets lived. He splashed himself with water and then threw some water on the hornets, and then put the bowl on his head, as though to protect himself from a storm.

"You fools!" he cried to the Hornets, "why do you stay in the rain?"

"Where are we to go?" replied the Hornets.

"Hide in here!" Anansi said, pointing to the gourd, "it is dry in here!"

The hornets thanked him and flew into the gourd through the small hole. When the last of them had entered, Anansi plugged the hole with a ball of grass and took the Hornets to Nyame, who accepted them and said "That is one, there are still two more things."

Anansi went to the forest and cut a long bamboo pole and some strong vines. Then he walked toward the house of Python, talking to himself. He was talking about an argument he had with his wife. He said: "My wife is wrong. I say he is longer and stronger. My wife says he is shorter and weaker. I give him more respect. She gives him less respect. Is she right or am I right? I am right, he is longer. I am right, he is stronger."

When Python, heard Anansi talking to himself, he said: "Why are you arguing with yourself?"

Anansi replied: "Alas, I have had a dispute with my wife. She says you are shorter and weaker than this bamboo pole. I say you are longer and stronger."

Python said: "It's useless and silly to argue when you can find out the truth. Bring the pole and we will measure."

So Anansi laid the pole on the ground, and Python came and stretched himself out beside it.

"You seem a little short," Anansi said.

The python stretched further.

"A little more," Anansi said.

"I can stretch no more," Python said.

"When you stretch at one end, you get shorter at the other end," Anansi said. "Let me tie you at the front so you don't slip."

He tied Python's head to the pole. Then he went to the other end and tied the tail to the pole. He wrapped the vine all around Python, until he couldn't move.

"Python," Anansi said, "it turns out that my wife was right and I was wrong. You are shorter than the pole and weaker. My opinion wasn't as good as my wife's. But you were even more foolish than I, and you are now my prisoner."

Anansi carried Python to Nyame, who said: "There is one thing more."

Anansi went back into the forest and dug a deep hole along the path that Leopard liked to walk. He then covered it with sticks and leaves and dust so that it was impossible to tell where the pet was. Having finished his work Anansi went and hid behind a tree. When Leopard came prowling in the black of night, he stepped into the trap Anansi had prepared and fell to the bottom.

When the sun was up Anansi went to the pit and called down, "Leopard, what are you doing in this hole?"

"I have fallen," Leopard replied, "help me out!"

Anansi agreed and he bent a tall green tree toward the ground so that its top was over the pit and he tied it in place. He then tied a rope to the top of the tree and passed the loose end to Leopard.

"Tie this to your tail!" Anansi said.

Leopard tied the rope to his tail. When Anansi saw this he cut the rope that was holding the bowed tree to the ground. The tree snapped up, pulling Leopard out of the hole and left him twisting in the Air. Leopard became so dizzy that Anansi had no troubles binding Leopards feet and taking him to Nyame.

"Anansi," Nyame said, "Many great warriors and chiefs have tried to do this, but were unable. You have done it, therefore I will give you the stories!"

And that is why, to this very day, there are no Reynolds stories, nor are there any Bioware stories. There are only Anansi stories.
 

MinishArcticFox

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Akalistos said:
MinishArcticFox said:
Akalistos said:
MinishArcticFox said:
There's only so many ideas out there and even if Bioware did steal the concept (which I doubt they did) they still wrote the characters other alien races made the gameply and expanded it into a trilogy.
Yeah! You tell him.
By the way, i got a novel on the way. It's call Star skirmish! In there, Jame Groundroller is a farmer that want to join the Space Freedom Force. But his oncle and aunt don't... but they get kill fairly early. So, guided by a mysterious fighter call the Royal Monk, he embark on a journey to save Princess Whatsherrname who was capture by a Evil Monk call Dark Toddler inside his forteress: THE DEAD SPHERE! There also a Bounty Hunter call Ted Laulo and and his anthropomorphic cat Bittetica!

(get it?)
I get it I got a kick out of this. Anyway though no story can be 100% original even without intending to copy someone you're bound to. I haven't read it but I'm willing to bet that the story the "stole" didn't have anything similar to asari turians etc. They also have a planned trilogy which I'm not sure the original story had that. Also being game designers they made the gameplay and graphically designed the world. They also wrote characters which I'm guessing didn't exist in the sotry (Liara, Garrus, Mordin, etc). But then again maybe Garrus is supposed to be a reference to the Punisher because he used to be a straight cop, but then he goes outside the law to punish Saleon.
You don't know because you never read it. Even if they add ONE ITEM doesn't made this a new story. If you want, go check the synopsis on Wikipedia. Changing media doesn't change the story. What important is how much similarity there is. If there a blatant rip-off, YEAH. How to you decide what a rip off? Setting - Character - Plots. Those are the basis on which you write the story. There the Parody rule but when it's not funny or meant that way, like Spaceball, it call ripping off. Nudge or Wink can be made, but they shouldn't be part of the whole character and should be brief.

Example of Parodies: What if the story i send you, there joke. Like the monk cutting a bandit arm in a pub with a Laser Bo. The arm fell and there a lot of blood. The bandit say: "F**K me! I always though Laser was Hot." "Me too! Let do it again and see. (slice) Nope! goes to show that you can learn new thing everyday!(falling noise) Let go find a smuggler.) That a parody and it nudge to the fact that in episode 4, a laser cut did make a bandit bleed.

Example of Winks: Garrus or whatever you call it kill a mafioso. Then a guy pop up and say: "Wow, your like a real Super-Hero! You should become one." "Are you mad? Why the hell should i wear my underwear over my pant or paint a skull on my chest?"
That a Wink at the audience because we know that punisher's old costume was a Full body suit with a skull on it, a pair of white underwear over that and a white bandoleer. But that's was in the 90e series of Spider-Man, i recall.

Also, as blatant as it is in Avatar, you can't say that not Plagiarism. If you are, your nothing more than a FanBoy!
Right so I suppose the addition of the geth into the story didn't chcange it making Shepard a soldier not an archealogist didn't count having spectres and Sarron weren't original. The thorian certainly wasn't original. Having an ancient species be made into slaves by an even older half machine half sentient species with thousands of minds inside each of them was a rip off too. Bioware clearly ripped off the story and then added in all these other things to distract from ripping off the story, they didn't just make a different story that ended up having similarities. Secondly even if they did why does it matter the point of a story is to entertain which it does very well.