Dissing Mass Effect Andromeda because it has diversity and equality

[MerlinCross]

The amounof facepalming is unknowable. It's late, I'm tired.

But lemme address a bit of this insanity. It Biowares fault for messing up, not some stupid unproven theory to make the women less sexy/appealing(and I'm sorry to you guys on the other side of that debate but it's a big release AAA game, expect the bodies to slide towards super model).

No what this is, is either A) Bioware giving it to the B-C team(which if people want to argue about who works there and why be my guest), B) they have newer employees that did the work and no one caught it before it was out to the media(rush job on the promo/first looks? Day one patch incoming says I) or and it's most likely this C) The tech is fuuuuuuuucked.

It's the Uncanny Valley at work here. As Publishers(and some Devs) keep pushing the big flashy graphics and hyper realistic visuals, any animation problems get multiplied. We know how humans should walk and look so when the rigging/mesh/animation file messes up it jars us from the experience harder than other visuals. I've seen way worse in TF2 vids on YouTube and those are bonkers. But because they are cartoonish/caritures it doesn't bother me as much.

So yeah, people need to calm the hell down and stop jumping at shadows all the bloody time. Cause if this comes up every time, it's gonna be a long ride till we get over that valley.

That or Bioware being a bug bite of lazy nitwits that think they can put less effort in and still expect to reach insane sell numbers beacuase it is a "Mass Effect".

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Also, you do know that Ganon isn't "male-identifying" right? He's actually male...

...and he identifies as a dude. (I mean, I was born male and identify as male, so...)

I mean, presumably anyway. Gannon never actually states it though, so maybe not.

I'm more inclined to think that he identifies as a porcine hell-beast. [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/1/18/Ganon_(Oracle_of_Ages_%26_Oracle_of_Seasons).png/revision/latest?cb=20100413011018]

I mean, that's how he dresses when he's alone.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

That or Bioware being a bug bite of lazy nitwits that think they can put less effort in and still expect to reach insane sell numbers beacuase it is a "Mass Effect".

Thats it exactly though. Same with Bethesda and the Fallout/Skyrim games. They just expect people to fix their mistakes for them so don't put a huge amount of effort in besides building a framework. Bioware hide behide progressivness and their fans and any critisisms are the work of evil right wing internet trolls.

I will say, I had zero interest in ME:A (nor any Bioware game since ME2) and still don't but I watched the PeeBee sex scene on YouTube because Biowares sex scenes are always comedy gold and holy shit it was hilarious. I advise people to go search it out (though it does have nipples in it so careful now).

It's kind of genius that EA/Bioware are pushing diversity so hard because it pretty blatantly something they hide behind to deflect critisism.

In fact here:
https://youtu.be/Wwtjk1En3gw

Watch that (NSFW) scene and tell me that is animation you'd expect from a game with a $40 million budget. Someone should be held accountable for how awful that is and no amount of "but the sexamists comments on the interbutts" should excuse it.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I'm more inclined to think that he identifies as a porcine hell-beast. [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/1/18/Ganon_(Oracle_of_Ages_%26_Oracle_of_Seasons).png/revision/latest?cb=20100413011018]

I mean, that's how he dresses when he's alone.

Yes, but it's apparently very important for lore reasons that Gabon was born a male porcine hell-beast.

I guess, anyway. I mean, technically speaking, he isn't "born" at all most of the time. Heck, considering how heavily the lore's been hijacked around that point, I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't actually ever Gerudo. He just pulled a changeling and went full brood parasite to get the support of a warrior tribe.

 

[CritialGaming]

Oh hey look, it's a big budget highly antisipated game? What can we ***** about? Oh one of the people that worked on it is a bit of a shitbag. And there is a girl in there who probably did a half-assed job, nevermind that animation fixes were probably cut from the EA deadline budget because EA is EA and EA is shit (not quite Konami but *shrug*).

This is all a non-issue.

Is the game fun? If yes, great. If no, then don't buy it.

The individual views of the people behind the game don't matter if it isn't a toxic mark within the game itself. How many products do you think you buy in your day to day life that might have had a KKK member touch it somewhere in the assembly line? Does that suddenly make cookies not taste good? Does it somehow many your car not drive as well?

No it fucking doesn't. If people wanna have shitty views then let them, so long as those views don't physically harm anyone. And certainly don't let it affect the enjoyment of a game that you might have really really loved if you didn't know anything about the people behind it. Because frankly Mass Effect took a lot more than one woman to animate, or one random racist to program and design.

You ever work in a job where your boss is a complete asshole? Does that mean people should support your business, because your boss is a prick? Because if you say yes, then that puts you out of a job too. So...be careful how you throw stones.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

Same character. Still not seeing the Shrek comparison. Like, at all.

I can see it. I mean, it's less a problem with the character's design and more a problem with the animations. She doesn't always look like Shrek, but every now and then her animation gets janky and wham, Shrek-face.

I wouldn't have noticed it unless it was pointed out, but now that it's been pointed out I can't unsee it.

Try unseeing THIS.

http://imgur.com/PyuHsd8

How the HELL that made it past the testers without screaming is beyond me.

 

[vallorn]

Honestly, the game is a wreck for a lot of reasons, I've seen characters randomly Tpose during dialogue and way worse animation fuckups than that one. I'm not surprised that people are looking for someone to blame considering Bioware is simultaniously loved for its earlier titles and hated for its later ones. And I'm also not surprised that people latched onto tiny things like Cora's haircut or peebee's cute face to focus their bitching around.

Same character. Still not seeing the Shrek comparison. Like, at all.

I can see it. I mean, it's less a problem with the character's design and more a problem with the animations. She doesn't always look like Shrek, but every now and then her animation gets janky and wham, Shrek-face.

I wouldn't have noticed it unless it was pointed out, but now that it's been pointed out I can't unsee it.

I think people are confusing green skinned characters here.

Spoiler: Me, personally, i think she looks sssssmokin'

[/spoiler][/quote]
Somebody STOP ME!

 

[CyanCat47_v1legacy]

What, that's it? I've seen more offensive mayonnaise jokes. This thin-skinned hand-wringing is getting ridiculous.

OT: But yeah, clearly, the wonky animations in a AAA that had multiple levels of supervision and sign-offs is clearly the fault of a possibly under-experienced team lead. One of several.

And while we're at it, we're apparently going to discount that Mass Effect has always had wonky animations. It's like if idiots got really mad at a single coding lead because Skyrim's horses could walk straight up mountains, because they were obviously a "diversity hire"

Gravity-defying horses have rights too dammit

 

[Saelune]

I'm more inclined to think that he identifies as a porcine hell-beast. [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/1/18/Ganon_(Oracle_of_Ages_%26_Oracle_of_Seasons).png/revision/latest?cb=20100413011018]

I mean, that's how he dresses when he's alone.

Yes, but it's apparently very important for lore reasons that Gabon was born a male porcine hell-beast.

I guess, anyway. I mean, technically speaking, he isn't "born" at all most of the time. Heck, considering how heavily the lore's been hijacked around that point, I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't actually ever Gerudo. He just pulled a changeling and went full brood parasite to get the support of a warrior tribe.

Ganon is Evil-Jesus, born of that evil entity from Skyward Sword into that prophetic rare male Gerudo. Should be noted that there is just the one Ganon. Unlike Link and Zelda, it is the same guy from Ocarina of Time, revived/freed, rather than being a new one too. Like Dracula from Castlevania.

 

[Redryhno]

What, that's it? I've seen more offensive mayonnaise jokes. This thin-skinned hand-wringing is getting ridiculous.

OT: But yeah, clearly, the wonky animations in a AAA that had multiple levels of supervision and sign-offs is clearly the fault of a possibly under-experienced team lead. One of several.

And while we're at it, we're apparently going to discount that Mass Effect has always had wonky animations. It's like if idiots got really mad at a single coding lead because Skyrim's horses could walk straight up mountains, because they were obviously a "diversity hire"

Gravity-defying horses have rights too dammit

Not to mention they've been an established part of the lore! And last I checked a line of code that allows exploration in a game set around exploration is more a feature than something to criticize. Also you have the option to not use horses in Skyrim and Oblivion, you don't really have the option to not interact with characters.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

I'm actually seeing a fair amount of critique for how poorly handled the "diverse" characters in the game were written. Just scrolling through a Mass Effect search on Twitter I've seen a fair amount of trans people mock the writing of the trans character in the game. It seems like Bioware Montreal's writers think that treating trans people like their aliens is a great way of representing them in games.

Its not.

Instead of writing characters in such a sloppy manner, they should practice what a lot of people who identify as "progressives" preach and treat trans people (or any people who can get stuffed in the "diverse" box) like a normal person. Because, you know, they are.

I'm a Black Man for example. I'm getting kind of tired of mostly White Progressives thinking that I need to be "represented more" in video games and other media. It comes of as patronizing and it frankly shows that people with such sociopolitical inclinations don't think of people of colour or the LGBTQ+ community as equal. If you want to fight for equality, start treating people equally, not like they're special.

People need to stop being offended for other people.


Now more to the point of the critique that the new Mass Effect is getting, there seems to be a lot of legit gripes with the game that people are going to label as coming from "the alt-right" and other meaningless buzzwords. The animations do suck in a lot of cases. The story is not consistently good. The open world exploration isn't really rewarding. The first 2 planets are awfully designed. I could go on but the reviews have covered all the problems.

This is what happens when you hand off a flagship title to the C-Team. There has been news of many leads from Bioware Montreal leaving in the past few years as compared to Bioware Edmonton. Some complaints about the culture of working there not being good have come up.

We need to get of this meme of "people who don't like this game I wanna like are just trolls" in gaming. It rewards companies for making sub-par games and has them think they can ignore valuable criticism.

 

[Dansen]

I'm actually seeing a fair amount of critique for how poorly handled the "diverse" characters in the game were written. Just scrolling through a Mass Effect search on Twitter I've seen a fair amount of trans people mock the writing of the trans character in the game. It seems like Bioware Montreal's writers think that treating trans people like their aliens is a great way of representing them in games.

Its not.

Instead of writing characters in such a sloppy manner, they should practice what a lot of people who identify as "progressives" preach and treat trans people (or any people who can get stuffed in the "diverse" box) like a normal person. Because, you know, they are.

I'm a Black Man for example. I'm getting kind of tired of mostly White Progressives thinking that I need to be "represented more" in video games and other media. It comes of as patronizing and it frankly shows that people with such sociopolitical inclinations don't think of people of colour or the LGBTQ+ community as equal. If you want to fight for equality, start treating people equally, not like they're special.

People need to stop being offended for other people.


Now more to the point of the critique that the new Mass Effect is getting, there seems to be a lot of legit gripes with the game that people are going to label as coming from "the alt-right" and other meaningless buzzwords. The animations do suck in a lot of cases. The story is not consistently good. The open world exploration isn't really rewarding. The first 2 planets are awfully designed. I could go on but the reviews have covered all the problems.

This is what happens when you hand off a flagship title to the C-Team. There has been news of many leads from Bioware Montreal leaving in the past few years as compared to Bioware Edmonton. Some complaints about the culture of working there not being good have come up.

We need to get of this meme of "people who don't like this game I wanna like are just trolls" in gaming. It rewards companies for making sub-par games and has them think they can ignore valuable criticism.

The game might be sub standard or bad, I don't know, and I won't until I have played it or see more reviews. However it is rather disingenuous to suggest that a significant portion of the back lash doesn't come from people with an ax to grind. There are trolls spreading misinformation and blowing things out of proportion for all high profile games, you don't have to look further than this months releases and the meta bombing of Zelda:BotW and Horizon: Zero Dawn.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

The game might be sub standard or bad, I don't know, and I won't until I have played it or see more reviews. However it is rather disingenuous to suggest that a significant portion of the back lash doesn't come from people with an ax to grind. There are trolls spreading misinformation and blowing things out of proportion for all high profile games, you don't have to look further than this months releases and the meta bombing of Zelda:BotW and Horizon: Zero Dawn.

Gonna have to disagree. Meta bombings on the user scores of games happens literally all the time. Stop giving power to vocal minorities. These "meta bombings" you speak of don't seem to be effective because BOTW's user score is 7.4 (which seems to be accurate if you remove the industry's nostalgia glasses for Nintendo) and Horizon Zero Dawn's User score is 8.5.

People built up trolls or "alt right people" to seem like they're a massive problem with these 3 games and its simply not the case. A lot of the reviews for Mass Effect Andromeda echo the criticisms of the people who played the demo for a week. If it were on the scale of the Ghostbusters movie of last year, your point would be a fair bit more solid, but the constant "trolls are attacking" trope isn't really accurate here. I've seen way more memes making fun of the poor animations than anything.

The only attacks on "diversity" seem to be coming with Manveer's tweets against White people and the poor writing of the game's trans character, and the latter point was only when the game came out 2 days ago. Further more the critique of the trans character came from trans gamers mostly from what I've seen.

 

[Karadalis]

Is there a trans character in the game?

Are you telling me that they have unlocked the tech to travel to another galaxy...

Yet havent figured out how to swap genders better then what we have currently?

Why ARE there even "trans" people in the future? Isnt the whole "trans" identity only a thing because it takes so friggin long to actually transition from one gender to another currently? (leaving aside the fact that i yet have to meet a "trans" that actually wants to be called a "trans" instead of the gender they want to be) You gonna tell me we have biotic space magic and super heal bio gel but no way to turn Hans into Gretel in tiffy?

ME as a setting is so riddled with plotholes i think the only thing saving it ARE the graphic glitches...

 

[rob_simple]

Why is it so many crappy uninspired sequels are released, but only this Mass Effect Andromeda gets bashed so much?

Dragon Age II
Assassin's Creed Unity
Deus Ex Invisible War
Every CoD game after MW2
Starfox Zero
Every Mario game in the last decade
Every Zelda game in the last decade
Mass Effect 3
DmC (Donte may Cry)
Dead Space 3
Burnout Paradise
Resident Evil 5/6/Operation Raccoon City

These are just off the top of my head, I'm sure other people can think of many more, but all of them were relentlessly bashed upon their release; some of them even killed their respective franchises.

It's not that other shit sequels don't get bashed, it's that apparently no one notices the crappy sequel bashing unless you mock the 'MUH DIVERSITY' crowd while you're doing it.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Is there a trans character in the game?

Are you telling me that they have unlocked the tech to travel to another galaxy...

Yet havent figured out how to swap genders better then what we have currently?

Why ARE there even "trans" people in the future? Isnt the whole "trans" identity only a thing because it takes so friggin long to actually transition from one gender to another currently? (leaving aside the fact that i yet have to meet a "trans" that actually wants to be called a "trans" instead of the gender they want to be) You gonna tell me we have biotic space magic and super heal bio gel but no way to turn Hans into Gretel in tiffy?

ME as a setting is so riddled with plotholes i think the only thing saving it ARE the graphic glitches...

...people don't stop being trans after they get a sex change, man.

 

[runic knight]

So Bioware, lead by a public face that is undeniably racist against whites yet was never called out for it, and a bunch of new recruits that have little to no experience and seem to be hired solely to satisfy some ideological reasons, made a shitty game? Sounds about right.

Oh not because they are minorities or anything vapidly dismissal like that. But because rather than look for quality talent, they instead chose based on satisfying an ideological notion. That people without talent made a product that demonstrates this in animation, writing, tone and everything else doesn't surprise me any more than it would if a company hired only christian fundamentalists regardless of talent. The entire point of failing to look at skill when hiring and picking the team sort of made this the most likely occurrence. Considering the attitude of the jackass linked on the first page, going to laugh at this failure as well.

So problem isn't diversity itself, simply the emphasizing of it instead of actual skill at the job. Probably will find out that the people involved were all friends or some shit in a display of cronyism too, but who knows.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

Is there a trans character in the game?

Are you telling me that they have unlocked the tech to travel to another galaxy...

Yet havent figured out how to swap genders better then what we have currently?

Why ARE there even "trans" people in the future? Isnt the whole "trans" identity only a thing because it takes so friggin long to actually transition from one gender to another currently? (leaving aside the fact that i yet have to meet a "trans" that actually wants to be called a "trans" instead of the gender they want to be) You gonna tell me we have biotic space magic and super heal bio gel but no way to turn Hans into Gretel in tiffy?

ME as a setting is so riddled with plotholes i think the only thing saving it ARE the graphic glitches...

...people don't stop being trans after they get a sex change, man.

But they usually don't refer to themselves as trans and instead refer to themselves as their preferred gender.

 

[Redryhno]

The only attacks on "diversity" seem to be coming with Manveer's tweets against White people and the poor writing of the game's trans character, and the latter point was only when the game came out 2 days ago. Further more the critique of the trans character came from trans gamers mostly from what I've seen.

Nah, there's more poor diversity writing beyond the trans character. There's a couple gay guys/girls that want to bang some random guys/girls that appears to be on your crew(though I think you really have to go out of your way to know they exist before they come up) asking you, his superior, if he would go out on a date with them. And they're all so fucking shy, this isn't middle school anymore, they're supposed to be some of the best in their field. They have the confidence to abandon everything up to that point in their lives and say goodbye to everyone that had any connection to them to go on a half-baked colonization mission, but they don't have the confidence to ask someone else out once they get there. And they have the balls to try to pressure someone in a position of authority over them to do it. I've just been put in that position before by someone that wanted to go out with me(have yet to know why, I barely knew they existed) and it is NOT a place you want to be, so it's a bit of a sore issue for me.

The trans character I'm just seeing as a rehash of the Baldur's Gate expansion that came out like...2 years ago? Just a largely random character that can't wait to tell the new stranger they have literally just met that they used to be a dude and your responses to that are some manner of "you're so brave" in a universe that has(or at least should considering the other things that have happened) the tools to transition without much problem. Just seems so worthless to call yourself trans if the whole "problem" with being trans is that you don't want to be known as trans(outside of a giving advice or understanding) or what you were before. I mean, if it's going to be a character trait you have to have in the game, at least let it be something that happens after you do some jobs for/with them and let it actually be a reveal instead of something that's said straight up front.

Let it be a Chakwas/Garrus buddy-buddy relationship where you're friends first, put some actual effort into the character's story and personality, if nothing else, just don't let it start with "I USED TO HAVE A DICK I NEVER FELT FIT WITH THE REST OF ME".

...people don't stop being trans after they get a sex change, man.

From what I've read up on and listened to from others on the internet, outside of a few times of giving advice and letting people know what it's like...they actually do. They transitioned because they wanted to be on the other side of the fence, not because they feel like straddling it or ripping off their piece of it to go off by themselves to go build a new fence for everyone like them...

I mean, why the hell would it be called transitioning if it weren't a halfway point between what they were and what they want to be?

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

Or a side quest where a geth wants gender designation and we get a surprisingly deep miniquest on gender roles and how organics have it harder than synthetics. One guy thought of something that tackles lgbt issues on ME that doesnt feel like Dragonspear all over again.

"A Geth companion/quest giver is gender-less but wants to understand human sexuality, has some modifications done for a gender toggle switch (maybe you need to fetch the parts). you get lots of humorous moments and dialog trees where you can illiterate on gender roles and how ironic it is that the robot can simply flip a switch, yet organics have to go though so much trouble and still fall short."