DoA Dev Says Jiggle Physics Are Part of Japanese Culture

[Paragon Fury]

I wouldn't care about jiggle physics... if only they would do it for both genders.

Make it equal!

If women have to have huge boobs jiggling in a gravity defying unrealistic way... then the bulge in the front of men's pants should be over sized and jiggling in gravity defying unrealistic ways!

.... Yes I did just put that imagine into all your minds. Why? Because I am an evil bastard.

That wouldn't actually work.

Unless we're talking about a size that would make even the women's breasts seem ridiculous, men's pants and underwear, and their junk itself, does not really show or allow for bounce or wobble at all, even if the guy is wearing really loose fitting pants and underwear.

It just kinda stays where it is, not doing anything.

 

[Trishbot]

Do I really have to say "in a modern competitive versus fighting game"? There were female ninjas and fighters long before Chun-li in games, but she was the first in the now-traditional 2-player fighting game genre.

No she wasn't. Yie ar Kung Fu was a 2D fighting game. You said "first female fighter in video games" not "the oldest female fighter in video games commonly recognized by players who weren't born yet when the genre was invented."

You were factually incorrect on that, and you were factually incorrect about her never having been 'fanserviced' (whether you move the goalposts by handwaving away her 'granny panties' or not.)

Oh, for the love of....

... Yie Ar Kung Fu is NOT a "competitive 2-player fighting game". Two players do not, in fact, fight each other. They fight a computer and can alternate turns. It is not a true competitive fighting game because you have no human competition. Is it a good foundation for future fighting games? Oh, absolutely, but it is not a modern, traditional fighting game as we know it because it was impossible for there to be any sort of traditional human opponent to fight against, while Chun-li was the first selectable female fighter in a competitive fighting game.

Do I seriously need to give you a history lesson on that, or are you done going off on a tangent and ignoring the issue of why I used her in the first place?

 

[DementedSheep]

I don?t have a problem with DOA or games like this, that fact that there are male pandering games is not an issue so long as it?s not most (and it?s not) however...

?it?s part of our culture!? yeah fuck off. That?s a bullshit excuse that people pull when they know something is bad and don?t want to change it.

Why are the big jiggly boobs any more sexist that the muscles on the dudes?

The only way something like this could ever be considered sexist against man is when a women says so.
Remember that a ?idealised? portrayal of a female body is always a male sex fantasy and therefore degrading to women while a ?idealised? athletic male body is always a male power fantasy.

because muscles actually fit the role in most game, muscles are a sign of strength and competently. Giant tits are not, they purely sexual. For guys its "hey look how strong and badass I am" for girls its "hey look at my tits and ass, aren?t I sexy?".
and when the last time you had a guy introduce by the camera zooming up on his ass?

 

[SnakeoilSage]

So you want me to buy your boring, shitty fighter because giant cartoon breasts stuffed into form-fitting boob-socks is culturally sensitive?

At this point the only thing that amazes me is the Todd Akin-levels of retard that seems to be infecting people with any sort of power over how we live our lives. You know when things got this pants-crapping insane/annoying, the French introduced their leaders to the guillotine, aka the "shut the fuck up" machine. Just a thought.

 

[DugMachine]

Really don't know what the big deal is. They're just boobs for christs sake. If you don't like the way the women are portrayed just don't play the game. As far as I know the women have always been portrayed like this in DoA/SC there is no excuse of "their past games were never like this blah blah jimmy rustled.jpg"

This sexism thing is getting out of hand. Video games that take themselves seriously are the ones we should care about, but no here we are trying to tell a fighting game to grow up.. load of horse crap if you ask me.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

uhm...I dont know about you guys, but have you considered the self-image of girls in Japan when they are constantly compared to this "ideal"?

I mean, sure, team ninja is not doing anything very WRONG in this scenario, its just marketing, their fans want this and they deliver, thats how a franchise works.
But team ninja is not the only one who does it, it is widespread across all media, and women ARE compared to these idealisations in one way or another constantly.
what makes it worse is that it is focused only on their attractiveness as in looks, not capability, personality or morality, its only looks.

I think THAT is the main issue, female characters are only in this game for the zeppelins strapped to their chests, not their diverse characteristics, they're BORING characters, the roster basicly comes down to: Ryu, Tits #1, tits #2, American tits, fat guy, femboy and tits #3 to #6.

the size of the breasts isn't that much of an issue, its the shallowness of how these breasts are handled.

 

[monev44]

Oh I see what happened here. Someone played a practical joke on Though Hayashi by replacing the definition of "culture" in his Japanese-English dictionary with the definition of "business-plan" and "common-sence" with "desire-to-make-money"

Seriously, the things he says make a lot more sense when you think about it that way.

"For us, within our [business-plan]," said Hayashi, "we're showing women like that, and we're trying to make them look attractive. We can't help if other [business-plans] in other countries around the globe think that it's a bad representation."

"We are a Japanese developer, and we're making the female characters with our [desire to make money] and our creative sense."

Appealing to teenage boys through jiggle physics are a core principle of their business-plan, one that has been profitable for a decade. They have no plans on changing it until pandering to women is more profitable then pandering to teenage boys. Being sexist one way or the other has nothing to do with their decision making, just money. So laddies, if you want to see it change, start showing up on demographic spreadsheets.

 

[targren]

... Yie Ar Kung Fu is NOT a "competitive 2-player fighting game". Two players do not, in fact, fight each other. They fight a computer and can alternate turns. It is not a true competitive fighting game because you have no human competition. Is it a good foundation for future fighting games? Oh, absolutely, but it is not a modern, traditional fighting game as we know it because it was impossible for there to be any sort of traditional human opponent to fight against, while Chun-li was the first selectable female fighter in a competitive fighting game.

Do I seriously need to give you a history lesson on that, or are you done going off on a tangent and ignoring the issue of why I used her in the first place?

None of which you specified during your initial self-righteous tantrum, which made you plain wrong. I wonder how many counterexamples it would take before you limited your "history" to "fighting games made by Capcom." Plus, she's a horrible example anyway since, as it's already been shown, she HAS been fanservice in the past, which actually defeats the point of why you used her in the first place.

You probably should have made sure you had your facts straight before you started throwing around snotty flames like.. what was it? "Teenage boys masturbating into their mom's panties?" You blew it.

?it?s part of our culture!? yeah fuck off. That?s a bullshit excuse that people pull when they know something is bad and don?t want to change it.

Ironically, that's the sort of dismissal someone uses when they feel something is wrong, and those who disagree tell them to "fuck off."

Just sayin', it's not exactly objective there.

 

[bigfatcarp93]

In other, completely unrelated news, Japan recently disowned Mr. Hayashi as a citizen.

 

[DementedSheep]

... Yie Ar Kung Fu is NOT a "competitive 2-player fighting game". Two players do not, in fact, fight each other. They fight a computer and can alternate turns. It is not a true competitive fighting game because you have no human competition. Is it a good foundation for future fighting games? Oh, absolutely, but it is not a modern, traditional fighting game as we know it because it was impossible for there to be any sort of traditional human opponent to fight against, while Chun-li was the first selectable female fighter in a competitive fighting game.

Do I seriously need to give you a history lesson on that, or are you done going off on a tangent and ignoring the issue of why I used her in the first place?

None of which you specified during your initial self-righteous tantrum, which made you plain wrong. I wonder how many counterexamples it would take before you limited your "history" to "fighting games made by Capcom." Plus, she's a horrible example anyway since, as it's already been shown, she HAS been fanservice in the past, which actually defeats the point of why you used her in the first place.

You probably should have made sure you had your facts straight before you started throwing around snotty flames like.. what was it? "Teenage boys masturbating into their mom's panties?" You blew it.

?it?s part of our culture!? yeah fuck off. That?s a bullshit excuse that people pull when they know something is bad and don?t want to change it.

Ironically, that's the sort of dismissal someone uses when they feel something is wrong, and those who disagree tell them to "fuck off."

Just sayin', it's not exactly objective there.

The excuse should never be ?culture? whether it for or against something. It should be because of X reason or even just be honest and say you happen to like/ dislike that sort of thing.
The culture excuse is used to end discussion on things. We don?t need to think about it or examine why we do what we are doing and whether it is a good or bad thing. It?s just part of our culture!

 

[Trishbot]

None of which you specified during your initial self-righteous tantrum, which made you plain wrong. I wonder how many counterexamples it would take before you limited your "history" to "fighting games made by Capcom." Plus, she's a horrible example anyway since, as it's already been shown, she HAS been fanservice in the past, which actually defeats the point of why you used her in the first place.

You keep saying "self-righteous" like it's a bad thing. Well, yes, I do believe I am "piously self-assured" on this matter. I misspoke, but even then, not really. Chun-li IS considered the first female fighter in fighting games, and, shock of shock, Konami's predecessor is NOT included as a traditional fighting game. So... no, I'm not "plain wrong"; rather, you took a small modicum of leeway and ran with it in the opposite end in a vain attempt to make me look incompetent, and then got upset when it didn't work. So, you ultimately throw your hands up and go "she's a horrible example anyway" and claim wearing blue underwear proves she's been heavily fanserviced and regarded to the same level of the Dead or Alive chicks (in their micro-bikinis) by that fact alone, while ignoring the fact that her sex appeal is, in fact, rarely emphasized.

You probably should have made sure you had your facts straight before you started throwing around snotty flames like.. what was it? "Teenage boys masturbating into their mom's panties?" You blew it.

You're misusing quotes. That's not what I said, and I wasn't even referring to you specifically... But, by all means, keep calling my remarks "snotty" and "tantrums" and "self-righteous", because the best way to ignore a problem is to utterly dismiss the validity of another person's claims with remarks like that.

?it?s part of our culture!? yeah fuck off. That?s a bullshit excuse that people pull when they know something is bad and don?t want to change it.

Ironically, that's the sort of dismissal someone uses when they feel something is wrong, and those who disagree tell them to "fuck off."

Just sayin', it's not exactly objective there.

No, I think many of us want to have a discussion on the matter. Point out why many of us, like myself, feel insulted and hurt by a pervasive and unchanging view of an oversexualized view of women in certain video games, and how, more than that, it is defended as part of their culture, heritage, and sensibilities. I don't wish to tell them to "f*ck off", but rather tell them why that view is outdated, harmful, and worth changing.

 

[Twilight_guy]

I wasn't aware that women were only objects in Japanese culture, what with the fact that nothing else I have ever seen indicates that is true in their modern culture. I'd be fine if they just said there were filling a need or that it was just the way they did things, but saying its part of the culture... ugh, no that's insulting to your countrymen... and countrywomen. I understand you can easily get away with this shit what with all the sexual repression and junk but don't go insinuating that all of japan thinks the same way you do.

 

[GangstaPony]

What a bullshit excuse! Maybe in India we should bring back Sati (widow burning) because it used to be part of our culture. If Japanese culture is misogynist/sexist (It is not, they are rather proud and disciplined) then that is NOTHING to be proud of or celebrated. You should be against such things. Apartheid used to be part of South African culture too...

Just admit that you guys are perverts and don't give a damn about actual game-play or art.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I'm not sure where we went from "cool, breasts" to "this is degrading sexism and should be banned forthright and within all games!" in the last 5 years or developers having to "justify" their character design decisions to people feminists, but something went horribly horribly wrong.

(High-Five) Glad I'm not the only person scratching his head at this.

I'm glad they're not changing it. They tried to appeal to "Western" gamers with Ninja Gaiden III and ended up crashing the franchise into the ground.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

And still no super bouncy testicles. Those protein shakes don't make themselves.

Still, you got to admire a man that stands up for his cultural legacy and all that good stuff

Yeah, like those guys from the KKK, standing firm in their country's racist culture, or all those awesome people holding women down and hacking off their clitoris and sewing their vagina shut because that's how they do things in their country. Oh? Just because it's your culture doesn't mean it shouldn't change? Well hotdog!

False equivelancy. Just because the West is offended, doesn't mean that the rest of the world should be forced to conform to not offend them.

Or in other words.....

 

[Scorpid]

I'm going to play devils advocate for a bit. While I understand peoples reaction to this, and would agree if it was an american developer I think we have no really right to demand change. Ask nicely sure, buy japanese products that don't portray women in a way to see as demeaning absolutely, but presuming you know Japanese culture and their mindset better then the Japanese and that because of this your opinion on how they should portray their women is more informed with high minded ideals is another thing entirely. People have been mentioning the fighting tournament controversy where some dude started acting like complete sexist asshole to a woman is not the same as Japan. Japan is not a sub culture of american culture like the American fighting tournaments. Japan is an entirely separate culture with completely different ideals, beliefs, and norms.

For example if I asked you to speak in a American accent that said you were well educated, what would you pick? Southern accent, California surfer accent, mid western accent, texas accent, spanish accent? No your first inclination would be to go for a New England accent and to sound as much like you came from the same town as FDR or John Kerry as possible, because we both understand that that's what the well educated of our American culture sound like more then not, with their educations from north eastern Ivy League schools.
If I asked you to sound like you were a well educated Japanese man. You wouldn't even know where to start, you most likely couldn't even pick out different accents of the Japanese and yes they have tons. My point is most people are not well informed enough about the Japanese and their culture to offer such scathing critiques as people seem to be offering here.

The Japanese are different culture and it's not our duty to go around fixing something in Japan when it's not violating one of our most sacred cultural ideal. Which is the value of human life.

 

[targren]

The excuse should never be ?culture? whether it for or against something. It should be because of X reason or even just be honest and say you happen to like/ dislike that sort of thing.

Except that's par of what he did say. They like it that way. Don't just read the headline, read what he said. The point is that, just because you think it's wrong does not MAKE it wrong. That's the thing that no don't gets in these situations. They all think they are so righteous and pure that their values and opinions are the "One True Way."

You can say "they shouldn't do that" all you want. Once you say "they must not do that," or start demonizing those who disagree with you, then you've become a fanatic and lost any moral high ground you may have had to begin with.

 

[Piorn]

Oh I love jiggle physics, one of the greatest achievements in software.
BUT you can have to much of everything. I'd take a realistically proportioned and animated woman over those wildly flailing balloons any day.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

If you don't like it, don't buy it, don't try to ruin the joy someone else might get out of it.

 

[Trishbot]

The Japanese are different culture and it's not our duty to go around fixing something in Japan when it's not violating one of our most sacred cultural ideal. Which is the value of human life.

I want to walk this line carefully, but this story was brought to my attention by my boyfriend... who is very Japanese. He was born in Tokyo and moved to America in high school. And it was his rant to me about how upset he was that these guys spoke as if they represented all of Japan and all of Japanese men shared their view that got me so inflamed as well.

And I will say this; maybe it's different for men, but as a woman, I DO feel the value of my life is lessened when men like that hold a view that views me as less than equal, less than the sum of my intelligence, personality, ability, and upbringing, and sums me up exclusively by how pretty I am and how big my breasts are. I feel less than human; I feel like cattle.

And I believe that is a view worth challenging.