Does Being Politically Incorrect Makes You A Bigot?

[Worgen]

No but it might make you a jerk. I've known a few people who used it as an excuse to just be a douche.

This. I tend to find it's always the people that embrace this label are always super confrontational and shit. They're also people that claim they're "telling it like it is"

No. You can't tell it like it is, because you haven't a fucking clue how it is. No one fucking does, I really wish people in general would pull their head out of their ass and realize most of their opinions aren't based on sound judgement. You don't know shit, I don't know shit, no one knows anything. Shit is very complex and ain't nobody got time for that.

I don't think saying controversial things alone makes someone a racist or a bigot or a sexist or ableist or whatever the fuck. In my opinion those things require one thing: Hate in a person's heart nothing more and nothing less.

ya know, it's like the people that see a transgendered person and not want to use the preferred pronouns... which hey, I get the frustration beyond transphobia since I hop on Twitter and it's one thing to want to use They as your pronoun, but some people are flat out making up words. Someone wanted to be called "zhr" I am not making that up. How the fuck do you even pronounce that?

That bullshit aside though, I'm more than happy to just call a person whatever gender they want to be, use whatever pronoun (though granted I'll probably fuck it up)... Is that me being PC? I don't think it is. That's me just being polite and friendly. I don't feel like calling someone their preferred gender affects me in any way what so-ever and it's such a small thing to do that'll make a person feel welcome.

...That is unless the person is making up shit like "zhr" cause then, ya know, fuck off. You're making up shit. There is not even a fucking vowel in that word.

I view political correctness like showering. You don't have to shower, but if you don't, people wont want to be around you. In someways I like when someone is open with their douchness. It lets me know that this is someone I can disdain. I would prefer to know right off the bat if someone isn't worth my time before I become friends with them.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Oh yeah, no. Not at all what I meant to say. There are total shitheels on both sides of the pro/anti PC divide, absolutely. And both sides could be considered bigoted. Its just the non-PC people who wash their hands of the whole business I consider to not be bigots.

Yea, that, sure.

However, I don't think it makes sense to use "bigot" in that sense - it exists in the dictionary like, but it's rarely ever used when not referring to "hating blacks, hating gays, hating white men" or whatever.

The general "not tolerating other viewpoints" is more aptly described as ideological zeal, or any variation of those words. Or, entrenched etc.

I've had near identical conversations with people who think its okay to use 'literal' in a non-literal sense. I would simply say we're using the word incorrectly. Or, in 'bigots' way, not to the full extent. Someone who is intolerant of gays or blacks or whatever is certainly a bigot, but not the full scale of bigotry.

If I can't stand people who like Starbucks, I'm a bigot. If someone actually liked Clone Wars, and I won't stand for them to even voice an opinion, I'm a bigot. The word 'bigot' has much more utility than simply getting pissy at gays who wanna' get married. Its just that's a very common form of bigotry, and so people, understandably but mistakenly, assumed that's the only form of bigotry around.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

No. You can't tell it like it is, because you haven't a fucking clue how it is. No one fucking does, I really wish people in general would pull their head out of their ass and realize most of their opinions aren't based on sound judgement. You don't know shit, I don't know shit, no one knows anything. Shit is very complex and ain't nobody got time for that.

Now if that's not the most pretentious, slang-filled milqetoaste cop-out I've ever encountered.

So you're the guy who knows, eh?

 

[DudeistBelieve]

No but it might make you a jerk. I've known a few people who used it as an excuse to just be a douche.

This. I tend to find it's always the people that embrace this label are always super confrontational and shit. They're also people that claim they're "telling it like it is"

No. You can't tell it like it is, because you haven't a fucking clue how it is. No one fucking does, I really wish people in general would pull their head out of their ass and realize most of their opinions aren't based on sound judgement. You don't know shit, I don't know shit, no one knows anything. Shit is very complex and ain't nobody got time for that.

I don't think saying controversial things alone makes someone a racist or a bigot or a sexist or ableist or whatever the fuck. In my opinion those things require one thing: Hate in a person's heart nothing more and nothing less.

ya know, it's like the people that see a transgendered person and not want to use the preferred pronouns... which hey, I get the frustration beyond transphobia since I hop on Twitter and it's one thing to want to use They as your pronoun, but some people are flat out making up words. Someone wanted to be called "zhr" I am not making that up. How the fuck do you even pronounce that?

That bullshit aside though, I'm more than happy to just call a person whatever gender they want to be, use whatever pronoun (though granted I'll probably fuck it up)... Is that me being PC? I don't think it is. That's me just being polite and friendly. I don't feel like calling someone their preferred gender affects me in any way what so-ever and it's such a small thing to do that'll make a person feel welcome.

...That is unless the person is making up shit like "zhr" cause then, ya know, fuck off. You're making up shit. There is not even a fucking vowel in that word.

I view political correctness like showering. You don't have to shower, but if you don't, people wont want to be around you. In someways I like when someone is open with their douchness. It lets me know that this is someone I can disdain. I would prefer to know right off the bat if someone isn't worth my time before I become friends with them.

More or less. I know right away if I can be a friends with someone based on this same shit.

I still feel like it's just basic kindness for the most part though.

 

[Terminal Blue]

That's actually the dictionary definition.

Which dictionary?

I would say if its not an adequate definition, you need to find another word. Maybe try 'acceptance'. I think there was a South Park about the difference between tolerance and acceptance. Tolerant Camps and a Museum of Acceptance. I'll try to find what episode it was...also someone got a hamster shoved up his ass if I remember correctly.

It's called "death camp of tolerance", season six. Like most of south park, it's entertaining but doesn't offer a particularly deep or interesting discussion of the topic and mostly serves as a mouthpiece for Matt and Trey's (often incoherent) opinions. The main problem with the argument as presented is that it hinges on a fairly arbitrary distinction between tolerant and intolerant language which is never explained. So ultimately it just comes back to some down to earth "common sense" idea of what is and is not an acceptable or "constructive" criticism, and most of the time in everyday life that's probably fine, but sometimes it's not going to be good enough.

Furthermore I would argue not being politically correct is not bigotry. Political correctness wants to change how you speak and how you view the world, whereas not being that doesn't want to do any of those things.

If political correctness wants to change how you speak or how you view the world, then the method of doing so is through speech. Specifically, through criticism of the pejorative or ideological meaning of "non-PC" terms. If you are going to criticize that form of criticism or say that it shouldn't happen, then you're engaged in an unacknowledged political project of trying to change how other people speak and view the world, by preventing them from making certain types of criticisms you find objectionable.

The problem with language is that it isn't as immaterial as you're trying to pretend, it has real material impact on the world. Criticising people can make people feel bad or ashamed, it can persuade them to change their behaviour, but this isn't a special or particular feature of "PC" criticism, all criticism does that. It doesn't matter if you're criticising racist language or criticising what you see as a censorious PC agenda, you're still passing judgement and you're still trying to change how people think. Essentially, this is the problem we're all trying to resolve.. like that South Park episode, we're all throwing down our own arbitrary lines as to what is "acceptable" and "unacceptable", and they're not compatible with each other. There is no meta-ideological position from which those competing standards can be reconciled, so we just have to make do somehow, and, for me at least, that means accepting speech (public speech, anyway) as not magically divorced from power, but as a field of competition in which it's possible to lose and even suffer without that necessarily being a violation of the capacity to speak freely.

You'll never find that zeal, that utter hatred for those not of the same group, in a non-PC person compared to those who are PC.

You will. It's not hard to find.

I myself am not PC, and I'm not intolerant of the PC culture. I can tolerate it just find. I just don't subscribe to it and won't let it influence me.

Right. But that requires you to go through this argument of having to defend your position and your perceived rights, which by extension means criticising or attacking others for expressing their opinions. You've divided the world into two opposing sides and effectively labelled one as good and the other as evil. How are the people whose opinions you've designated evil meant to feel? Should they feel ashamed? Should they feel encouraged to abandon their positions and embrace yours? Should they restrain their speech around you in order to avoid the risk of you being influenced?

When you say you can "tolerate" PC culture, what exactly do you tolerate? If someone was pointing out that they felt your use of language was inappropriate, would you criticise them for doing so? Would you want to criticise them for doing so but restrain yourself in the interests of being "tolerant" of their political correctness? If you did criticize them, would you hope that they would listen or be influenced to stop doing what they were doing? Would you be fine if they said, "well, that's all well and good but I'm not going to let myself be influenced by your opinion, so I'm just going to keep criticising you anyway regardless of whether you respond or otherwise." Would you still want to spend time with that person, or would you change your behaviour to avoid confrontation?

Again, this detached position where whatever you say doesn't matter is not something which can actually exist. People influence each other all the time, that's how language works.

 

[Pseudonym]

I wish I could just leave it with that question without adding any context. To avoid having this post getting modded for low content, I'll add some context.

I was noticing that conservatives and liberals were describing Donald Trump's controversial comments differently. People who were for Trump described them as being "politically incorrect" while liberals against Trump were calling them "racist".

So, does being politically incorrect makes you a bigot?

This question is just weirdly phrased. For one, 'politically incorrect' is how people typically describe themselves whereas 'racist' is how people typically describe others. Very few people describe themselves as politically correct and nearly nobody calls themselves racists. In any case, communism is politically incorrect in America but it isn't bigoted. So no.

In any case, whenever people describe themselves as politically incorrect, I expect some level of bigotry. Like I expect fire to be hot. It was hot the first fifty times I encountered it, so why should this time be different.

Political correctness is a cancer that destroys free speech I'm not saying we should not eliminate genuine hatred wherever we find it but political correctness should also be eliminated

Yeah, protect free speech by destroying a mindset you disagree with. That's how it works.

If your mindset is that you should be able to limit free speech, you lose the right to claim to use it when people rise up against you. It's kinda like slavery, if you think it is your right to deny others their rights as free people it is to protect, not damage human rights to take your right to own slaves away from you.

So since you claim that those who want to limit free speech lose their right to free speech, does that mean others can limit your right to free speech too, since you want to limit the free speech of others who want to limit free speech? Fighting hypocrisy with hypocrisy seems like a bad idea. Free speech starts with respecting that of others, even if their views are abhorrent to you. Your slavery example doesn't work, since owning others violates their rights, but calling for the abolition of freedom of speech does not itself violate freedom of speech or any other right anyone might have. There is a difference between saying you want to do something and doing it.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Other way round perhaps.

Someone can deliberately choose to avoid being PC, which will generally mean using words or phrases condemned as being bigoted. That's going to suggest certain things to people.

 

[Cold Shiny]

According to all liberals, yes, yes it does.

Wow, it's so amazing to look at a forum and learn that I held an opinion I wasn't even aware of.

Sorry. I really don't want to offend anyone, I just got back from reading Moviebob's massive, insane rant on his website and I needed some way to vent. The hate and misunderstanding in his words was, actually kind of astonishing.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Considering that the definition of "PC" that I've always known is "put some thought into your words and try not to be needlessly or ignorantly offensive", but that's only the 1% percent of the time that being "Politically Correct" wasn't a pejorative.

It's the nineties version of "SJW".

It's hilarious to see people who condem "PC culture" and "safe spaces" and said ideas making people "thin-skinned" while simultaneously getting mad about Clinton's decidedly un-PC "half of Trump's supporters are deplorable" remark.

 

[Saelune]

No but it might make you a jerk. I've known a few people who used it as an excuse to just be a douche.

This. I tend to find it's always the people that embrace this label are always super confrontational and shit. They're also people that claim they're "telling it like it is"

No. You can't tell it like it is, because you haven't a fucking clue how it is. No one fucking does, I really wish people in general would pull their head out of their ass and realize most of their opinions aren't based on sound judgement. You don't know shit, I don't know shit, no one knows anything. Shit is very complex and ain't nobody got time for that.

I don't think saying controversial things alone makes someone a racist or a bigot or a sexist or ableist or whatever the fuck. In my opinion those things require one thing: Hate in a person's heart nothing more and nothing less.

ya know, it's like the people that see a transgendered person and not want to use the preferred pronouns... which hey, I get the frustration beyond transphobia since I hop on Twitter and it's one thing to want to use They as your pronoun, but some people are flat out making up words. Someone wanted to be called "zhr" I am not making that up. How the fuck do you even pronounce that?

That bullshit aside though, I'm more than happy to just call a person whatever gender they want to be, use whatever pronoun (though granted I'll probably fuck it up)... Is that me being PC? I don't think it is. That's me just being polite and friendly. I don't feel like calling someone their preferred gender affects me in any way what so-ever and it's such a small thing to do that'll make a person feel welcome.

...That is unless the person is making up shit like "zhr" cause then, ya know, fuck off. You're making up shit. There is not even a fucking vowel in that word.

You could like...talk to them about it, instead of just getting mad and telling them what they are.

 

[Level 7 Dragon]

You could like...talk to them about it, instead of just getting mad and telling them what they are.

Most try, however even the questioning# someone's gender identity can be considered hate speech in certain spaces. Just look at the Jordan B Peterson scandal. A university professor refused to use Xer/Zer/Xerself/Zerself pronouns, since he found them artificial and a byproduct of ideology, rather than of natural social progress. After making that statement, various protests organized refusing debate and demanding him to be fired.

The man is fairly open about the issue of transgender rights and anti-descrimination, though he had multible difficulties organizing a large scale debate due to a fringe faction that kept shutting down his platform, claiming that even a discussion and critique of queer theory is a form of hate speech.

The man documented the whole saga on his channel. There are plenty of interesting lectures and in-depth debates with various biology and transgender studies experts and activists.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL_f53ZEJxp8TtlOkHwMV9Q

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I wish I could just leave it with that question without adding any context. To avoid having this post getting modded for low content, I'll add some context.

I was noticing that conservatives and liberals were describing Donald Trump's controversial comments differently. People who were for Trump described them as being "politically incorrect" while liberals against Trump were calling them "racist".

So, does being politically incorrect makes you a bigot?

This question is just weirdly phrased. For one, 'politically incorrect' is how people typically describe themselves whereas 'racist' is how people typically describe others. Very few people describe themselves as politically correct and nearly nobody calls themselves racists. In any case, communism is politically incorrect in America but it isn't bigoted. So no.

In any case, whenever people describe themselves as politically incorrect, I expect some level of bigotry. Like I expect fire to be hot. It was hot the first fifty times I encountered it, so why should this time be different.

Political correctness is a cancer that destroys free speech I'm not saying we should not eliminate genuine hatred wherever we find it but political correctness should also be eliminated

Yeah, protect free speech by destroying a mindset you disagree with. That's how it works.

If your mindset is that you should be able to limit free speech, you lose the right to claim to use it when people rise up against you. It's kinda like slavery, if you think it is your right to deny others their rights as free people it is to protect, not damage human rights to take your right to own slaves away from you.

So since you claim that those who want to limit free speech lose their right to free speech, does that mean others can limit your right to free speech too, since you want to limit the free speech of others who want to limit free speech? Fighting hypocrisy with hypocrisy seems like a bad idea. Free speech starts with respecting that of others, even if their views are abhorrent to you. Your slavery example doesn't work, since owning others violates their rights, but calling for the abolition of freedom of speech does not itself violate freedom of speech or any other right anyone might have. There is a difference between saying you want to do something and doing it.

They do not lose their right to free speech, they will just be risen against and they can't claim to be using free speech without sounding like hypocrites, they still have the right to it and I obviously do not advocate for jailing them or anything so I don't get where you got that I wanted to take their right to free speech away. No, what happens to them is that there is such distate for them that people would rather elect Trump just to give them the middle finger and risk the world blowing up.

The only difference is wether or not one has the power to do what they wanna do, the morality of the act doesn't change because you are too powerless to pull it off. I would not have someone who wishes really badly to own slaves in any higher regard than someone who did own them.

Also, a lot of places do more than just talk about it. When people make laws that say misgendering someone is a hate crime, that is more than simply talks of limiting free speech, that is action.

 

[Dizchu]

You could like...talk to them about it, instead of just getting mad and telling them what they are.

This is what really annoys me. If someone uses stupid pronouns and has a gender identity you insist doesn't exist chances are you're not going to be associating with them in the first place. These people are a minority within a minority and may seem abundant on the internet where people dedicate entire Youtube channels and Tumblr blogs to finding and humiliating these people but in real life? Nah, unless you specifically go to LGBT groups you won't find them.

 

[Saelune]

You could like...talk to them about it, instead of just getting mad and telling them what they are.

Most try, however even the questioning on someone's gender identity can be considered hate speech in certain areas. Just look at the Jordan B Peterson scandal. A university professor refused to use Xer/Zer/Xerself/Zerself pronouns, since he found them artificial and a byproduct of ideology, rather than of natural social progress. After making that statement, various protests organized refusing debate and demanding him to be fired.

The man is fairly open about the issue of transgender rights and anti-descrimination, though he had multible difficulties organizing a large scale debate due to a fringe faction that kept shutting down his platform, claiming that even a discussion and critique of queer theory is a form of hate speech.

The man documented the whole saga on his channel. There are plenty of interesting lectures and in-depth debates with various biology and transgender studies experts and activists.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL_f53ZEJxp8TtlOkHwMV9Q

He could have liked...talked to them about it instead of just getting mad and telling them what they are.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

No but it might make you a jerk. I've known a few people who used it as an excuse to just be a douche.

This. I tend to find it's always the people that embrace this label are always super confrontational and shit. They're also people that claim they're "telling it like it is"

No. You can't tell it like it is, because you haven't a fucking clue how it is. No one fucking does, I really wish people in general would pull their head out of their ass and realize most of their opinions aren't based on sound judgement. You don't know shit, I don't know shit, no one knows anything. Shit is very complex and ain't nobody got time for that.

I don't think saying controversial things alone makes someone a racist or a bigot or a sexist or ableist or whatever the fuck. In my opinion those things require one thing: Hate in a person's heart nothing more and nothing less.

ya know, it's like the people that see a transgendered person and not want to use the preferred pronouns... which hey, I get the frustration beyond transphobia since I hop on Twitter and it's one thing to want to use They as your pronoun, but some people are flat out making up words. Someone wanted to be called "zhr" I am not making that up. How the fuck do you even pronounce that?

That bullshit aside though, I'm more than happy to just call a person whatever gender they want to be, use whatever pronoun (though granted I'll probably fuck it up)... Is that me being PC? I don't think it is. That's me just being polite and friendly. I don't feel like calling someone their preferred gender affects me in any way what so-ever and it's such a small thing to do that'll make a person feel welcome.

...That is unless the person is making up shit like "zhr" cause then, ya know, fuck off. You're making up shit. There is not even a fucking vowel in that word.

You could like...talk to them about it, instead of just getting mad and telling them what they are.

They're just a random person I saw on Twitter. a single person. Not representive of everyone. and I wouldnt ask them because Unlike 90% of people I don't harass strangers I disagree with on there... mostly. I occasionally I fuck up this rule... I just block and move on. Nothing fruitful can come from that conversation, and I'm relatively sure that person wouldn't want to be my friend anyway... so ya know, I just leave 'em alone. No sense in giving somebody a bad day.

But C'mon Saelune, I'll call anybody what they want to be called when I see this person making up words with no vowels for pronouns that's the point where I start feeling like they're taking the piss. And it's not just a piss at me, it's a piss on actual transfolks that have a hard enough time as it is with the pronoun thing. That's what annoys me. This is just my opinion of course, but I don't feel It's an unreasonable one to have.

I mean hell, if one is going to make up a word can it at least be one I can figure out how to pronounce by looking at it?

 

[Saelune]

You could like...talk to them about it, instead of just getting mad and telling them what they are.

This is what really annoys me. If someone uses stupid pronouns and has a gender identity you insist doesn't exist chances are you're not going to be associating with them in the first place. These people are a minority within a minority and may seem abundant on the internet where people dedicate entire Youtube channels and Tumblr blogs to finding and humiliating these people but in real life? Nah, unless you specifically go to LGBT groups you won't find them.

I think such things are silly too. But Im trans, and Im a furry, and people think Im silly for these things. Me? I already tend to avoid forcing gender pronouns on people. They and them are very useful in that regard. If a friend of mine was like that, Id probably think it silly, but I wouldnt go out of my way to put them down for it. If it doesnt hurt others, and makes them happy, why the fuck should I care?

 

[Saelune]

No but it might make you a jerk. I've known a few people who used it as an excuse to just be a douche.

This. I tend to find it's always the people that embrace this label are always super confrontational and shit. They're also people that claim they're "telling it like it is"

No. You can't tell it like it is, because you haven't a fucking clue how it is. No one fucking does, I really wish people in general would pull their head out of their ass and realize most of their opinions aren't based on sound judgement. You don't know shit, I don't know shit, no one knows anything. Shit is very complex and ain't nobody got time for that.

I don't think saying controversial things alone makes someone a racist or a bigot or a sexist or ableist or whatever the fuck. In my opinion those things require one thing: Hate in a person's heart nothing more and nothing less.

ya know, it's like the people that see a transgendered person and not want to use the preferred pronouns... which hey, I get the frustration beyond transphobia since I hop on Twitter and it's one thing to want to use They as your pronoun, but some people are flat out making up words. Someone wanted to be called "zhr" I am not making that up. How the fuck do you even pronounce that?

That bullshit aside though, I'm more than happy to just call a person whatever gender they want to be, use whatever pronoun (though granted I'll probably fuck it up)... Is that me being PC? I don't think it is. That's me just being polite and friendly. I don't feel like calling someone their preferred gender affects me in any way what so-ever and it's such a small thing to do that'll make a person feel welcome.

...That is unless the person is making up shit like "zhr" cause then, ya know, fuck off. You're making up shit. There is not even a fucking vowel in that word.

You could like...talk to them about it, instead of just getting mad and telling them what they are.

They're just a random person I saw on Twitter. a single person. Not representive of everyone. and I wouldnt ask them because Unlike 90% of people I don't harass strangers I disagree with on there... mostly. I occasionally I fuck up this rule... I just block and move on. Nothing fruitful can come from that conversation, and I'm relatively sure that person wouldn't want to be my friend anyway... so ya know, I just leave 'em alone. No sense in giving somebody a bad day.

But C'mon Saelune, I'll call anybody what they want to be called when I see this person making up words with no vowels for pronouns that's the point where I start feeling like they're taking the piss. And it's not just a piss at me, it's a piss on actual transfolks that have a hard enough time as it is with the pronoun thing. That's what annoys me. This is just my opinion of course, but I don't feel It's an unreasonable one to have.

I mean hell, if one is going to make up a word can it at least be one I can figure out how to pronounce by looking at it?

Why cant something come of the discussion? Maybe nothing will, but maybe something will, you cannot really know until it happens, and even then, not all ripples are obvious.

Maybe they are taking the piss...but maybe they arent. I know firsthand the difficulties of being trans, and thats WHY I am willing to atleast humor it. Maybe there is something they are going through that I just cannot understand. Maybe they are just finding themselves. Its taken me a long time to understand as much about myself and my gender as I do now, and I still feel lost and confused on who I really am.

Never tell someone else how they feel. Even if they should not logically feel that way, they feel how they feel. Its like punching someone and saying "Oh that didnt hurt" when they say ow. I have very sensitive skin, and bruise easily, but still my brother, my very strong brother will punch me and say that did not hurt, but it did. And it only pisses me off.