EA Defends Origin From Hardcore Crowd

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GAunderrated

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Jul 9, 2012
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EA loves making excuses for why their master plans to rip people off blow up in their faces. I have avoided ME3 and BF3 because they made it origin only. If EA wants to continue this train wreck well then I am happy to just sit back and watch it while buying massive games for cheap by steam sales and amazon sales.

I honestly expect EA trying to push the broken digital distribution model that the PSN and XBL have to the PC (no sales past 5 bucks) and its failing because of course their broken model doesn't have a true competitor like steam.
 

PingoBlack

Searching for common sense ...
Aug 6, 2011
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They are so laughingly out of touch it's nearly enough to be called tragic ...
How do they not realize Valve actually always listened to criticism and responded to it in term?

If they want Origin to compare to Valve's Steam from years ago, fine. But it's not really the target I would take on. See you in the past, EA.
 

robert01

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Jul 22, 2011
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shiajun said:
robert01 said:
shiajun said:
OK, no one said anything negative about EA wanting to pass off Origin as an indie-crowd sourced haven? Really? So I just imagined all those articles raging about EA being delusional about listing the games that are financed that way because companies like EA have forced them into that? Really? Damn...I think I've got to restock my meds 'coz they ain't working no more'.
What is negative about it? That is actually a smart move on EA's part. People need to get the content out to the people who crowd source these games, and EA said the would do it for free for a short period of time. The goal is to get people using the service. With the free period (30 days?) it acts as a way for someone to use the service (download the game they crowd sourced) and decide if they like the service. If they don't the don't, if they do they do.
I personally get a massive headache from trying to reconcile all this "we want to be indie" non-sense coming from EA, but that's not what I posted about. I posted about EA denying there was any negative feedback from this announcement, once again determined to ignore the opposing voices. If this move is good or bad is yet to be seen, but a notable part of the community did not react favorably to it around the time the announcement was made. That's my whole point.
The whole reason people complained about it is because of the fact that it is EA, and they felt it would be a ploy for them to force Origin upon people. Do you think it would have been the same reaction if it was Valve who said the would do it? What about platforms like GamersGate or GreenManGaming?
 

Absolutionis

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Why are people believing this garbage?

Steam came out in mid-2003 alongside Half-Life 2. It was DRM then. Valve said they'll make it worth it, and people realized HL2 was a damn good game and Steam was an acceptable way to install/reinstall games wherever.

EA released their EA Download Manager in mid-2005 TWO YEARS after Steam had come out. They later rebranded it into 'Origin' after it had a horrible reputation.

Origin is not as new as EA would have you think. Origin is seven years old and still thay don't have the kinks worked out.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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Deviate said:
Therumancer said:
Let me be honest, nobody with half a brain likes digital distribution even a little bit.
Not exactly true. There's quite a lot of us out there that find Steam (and digital distribution in general) very handy and practical. Physical media on the other hand is far less practical considering the inevitable decay of the medium in question (scratched discs or whatever else) and requiring physical space. Digital distribution on the other hand means that anywhere there's internet, there's access to your entire library. Even if HDDs go tits up or any other calamity strikes, you'll still be able to download what you want when you want it.

Hell, most of those services allow you to make offline backups. Some of them don't even have any kind of DRM, like Good Old Games. It's also highly practical from a customer point of view. In the case of Steam it's one single client containing a games manager, a downright amazing shop with a veritable cornucopia of features including but not limited to demos, wishlists, massive sales and so on and so forth. There's the social network and there's the fairly decent support.

All of this for (often) less money than the physical copy costs and you often get so much more as well. As for control, I have just as much control (and more) of my products as I ever did over any physical copy of games requiring activation of any kind. Which is pretty much all that are released these days.

So yeah, your derogatory little statement up there does not hold very true.
Actually it's quite true, the bottom line is in your last comment about "requiring activation, which is all that are released these days". Given that little development services like STEAM are the best option, but a gilded cage is still a cage. In the end you wind up having or controlling nothing. If a service like STEAM goes down, it takes all of your property with it, and as untouchable a juggernaut as some of these services seem right now, nothing lasts forever. I can take a disc of a 20 year old game, pop it into an old computer, and play it any time I want to. STEAM goes the way of the dodo, even if they removed the requirement to run through them I won't be able to access my media anymore.

In general, acceptance of digital downloads is largely due to a younger generation that has known nothing else, and honestly does not know any better.

Likewise, we've already seen that those running services can cut people off from their content on a whim. We've had people banned outright from their digital libraries due to accusations of cheating in a single game. If someone like Gabe decided to ban you from STEAM entirely, he could potentially cost you thousands of dollars. I'm not saying he'd personally do that, but the fact remains that he COULD do it, and we've already seen situations where things like this happening though services run by companies like Microsoft and EA, which demonstrates how little control you have over your own digital property, and that control is a big part of why the industry has decided to push this technology so heavily.

As far as GOG goes, I've done more than a bit of business with them, but I will say they aren't quite what a lot of people think. What GOG basically did was decide to run an Abandonware site as a business. They came up with the idea of buying the rights to some otherwise abandoned games up in bulk, tinkering with them to get them to run on never machines, and then selling them. Basically GOG is giving you what sites like Home Of The Underdogs and others have been providing for free in exchange for money, your basically paying $5-$10 at a pop for them to get Dosbox or whatever running for you (which is admittedly a pain), and admittedly they are doubtlessly making the people who originally developed those games and abanddoned the titles pretty happy since they are probably
getting paydays off of them again.

This is not to say there is anything wrong with GOG (there isn't) but the thing is that their generosity has to be interpeted in the light of most of their product actually having been out there via abandonware sites without any kind of DRM for years before they even bothered to come along. Sticking DRM on an old game is kind of pointless when there are established cracks without it that had been in circulation (more or less legally, since the titles were abandoned, which is why Abandoware operated publically) for years.

It can also be argued that while GOG is good for some of the developers who had a reason to renew liscences and such, it's been bad for a lot of users and abandonware sites who now again have to pay for what was basically public domain before they came along. You can insist I'm ignorant all you want, but a lot has been said about this already, and while Abandonware still exists, it's actually taken a hit from GOG. GOG isn't doing anything wrong (to repete this), quite the opposite in fact, but again, their apparent generosity has to be taken with a grain of salt.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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lacktheknack said:
Therumancer said:
Let me be honest, nobody with half a brain likes digital distribution even a little bit.
Have you heard of "gog.com"?

You haven't? Oh. OK. Just asking.
Done a lot of business with them, but they aren't exactly what you and a lot of people think they are. I just wrote a lengthy run down on them in another message in this topic. A lot of their apparent generosity isn't as generous as you might think given the realities of dealing in old games and the pre-existing abandonware infrastructure it's been replacing.
 

The Random One

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If I wanted an intrusive program to force feed me DRM, I'd intall Steam!

Which I already did and I'm not willing to soil my computer with another one.

The fact that gamers defend Valve's nefarious malware while attacking Origin for its spyware that was no worse even before they dialed it down is a lesson in marketing. Namely, that it doesn't matter how good your marketing team is in theory if every part of your company isn't working towards the same goal. Also fanboys will be fanboys and if you managed to snatch yourself a bunch you won't even need a PR agent.
 

Li Mu

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Oct 17, 2011
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My brother spent about 5 days trying to get Origin to work just so he could play Masseffect3.
Something to do with it not validating something or other.
Anyway, in the end the only username he could get to work was something like "gofuckyourselforigin".

I wouldn't mind playing BF3, but as lame as it sounds, I wont buy it as long as it's only on Origin.
If I were absolutely desperate to play BF3 then I probably would obviously install Origin, but since I'm not, I really can't be bothered to go through the hassle others have had.
 

GAunderrated

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Absolutionis said:
Why are people believing this garbage?

Steam came out in mid-2003 alongside Half-Life 2. It was DRM then. Valve said they'll make it worth it, and people realized HL2 was a damn good game and Steam was an acceptable way to install/reinstall games wherever.

EA released their EA Download Manager in mid-2005 TWO YEARS after Steam had come out. They later rebranded it into 'Origin' after it had a horrible reputation.

Origin is not as new as EA would have you think. Origin is seven years old and still thay don't have the kinks worked out.
Yes this is very much true. I actually have an origin account I never logged into because I used EA download manager once and they converted it years ago.

You are correct that EA has been trying digital distribution since 2005 and still can't get it right.

But I always found white knights to be entertaining so I keep letting them think origin is new. lol.
 

Vauban

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Sep 14, 2008
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I begrudgingly only use Origin for BF3 and ME3. Now I do hate Origin for the plethora of reasons listed in this thread but I hate what happens when my computer tries to open origin. Every time I open Origin on my comp it locks the comp up until Origin is open which can take a long time if their authentication servers are slow. I started using Steam in 2004 and from then to now I've never had any experiences like with origin.
 

Madman123456

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Feb 11, 2011
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Steam asks me if i want to participate in a Survey and tells me what data they want to have and then presents that data to me and asks me again if i'm okay with that Data being sent off to Valve.

Origin just scans Data. Which Data that might be i don't know but i have seen Screens of origin sniffing about in someones Printerdrivers and Tax Software (!) and then i have no Idea where that Data is sent to or how secure it is there. Since i can't be certain what kinds of Data are scanned i can not discount the Possibilitie that someone might hack EA and make it look like everyone of their Customers has Child Pronography on their Hard Drives.

Also, Origin is harder to get rid off then most Viruses.
 

bandman232

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Jun 27, 2010
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I must be the only person on Earth that hates Steam. The way I see it, why waste 3 hours downloading a game when you can get it off a disc, install it, and then play it with in the next 5 minutes?
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Deviate said:
Therumancer said:
Actually it's quite true, the bottom line is in your last comment about "requiring activation, which is all that are released these days". Given that little development services like STEAM are the best option, but a gilded cage is still a cage. In the end you wind up having or controlling nothing. If a service like STEAM goes down, it takes all of your property with it, and as untouchable a juggernaut as some of these services seem right now, nothing lasts forever. I can take a disc of a 20 year old game, pop it into an old computer, and play it any time I want to. STEAM goes the way of the dodo, even if they removed the requirement to run through them I won't be able to access my media anymore.
And yet Steam has lasted longer than a lot of physical media has, not to mention the fact that there's a ton of smaller titles out there that can only be procured through digital distribution. Yes, if Steam somehow suddenly tanks (highly unlikely. In fact, the idea is wholly retarded at this point.) then I won't have access to my games. If my house burns down I'll lose access to my book collection as well but that doesn't make owning a house a bad idea. Especially if it's a wonderful house that somehow spawns a ton of awesome books for cheap. Yeah, that analogy got away from me, but the point remains. Your precious physical media is no more secure and safe than my digital media. I control mine just as much as you control yours.

In general, acceptance of digital downloads is largely due to a younger generation that has known nothing else, and honestly does not know any better.
Right. We'll talk about 'younger generations' when you've beaten my scores on all my old C64 games.

Likewise, we've already seen that those running services can cut people off from their content on a whim. We've had people banned outright from their digital libraries due to accusations of cheating in a single game. If someone like Gabe decided to ban you from STEAM entirely, he could potentially cost you thousands of dollars. I'm not saying he'd personally do that, but the fact remains that he COULD do it, and we've already seen situations where things like this happening though services run by companies like Microsoft and EA, which demonstrates how little control you have over your own digital property, and that control is a big part of why the industry has decided to push this technology so heavily.
Oooookay, now I see where you're coming from. The loony bin. Would you like some tinfoil with that conspiracy theory? First off, it's cute how people who have been "banned outright from their digital libraries due to accusations of cheating in a single game" are all innocent and shit. Of course those nitwits are going to claim outrageous shit like that in some ill-advised attempt to gain the favor of public opinion, trying desperately to unfuck what they themselves fucked up. Valve and others are in the business of making money. Killing off a revenue source without cause is not something that's anywhere near their interests. They're greedy, they're callous, they're capitalistic... and they're far from stupid. This means that they're going to be damn careful about keeping as many customers as they can.

In short, if you're 'losing control' over your games because of some service-wide ban, you've screwed the pooch so hard that you frankly don't even belong near a computer. Your little conspiracy theories notwithstanding. Cute, but not particularly near the truth.

A lot of tripe about Gog and abandonware.
What? What the hell does 'generosity' have to do with anything? And you do know that Abandonware is not legal, yeah? All those examples you've mentioned is simply straight up piracy. None of which have anything to do with digital distribution anyway.

Actually Abandonware is NOT piracy,I recommend doing some reading on the subject, especially on some of the sites that operated publically doing it without any need for anonimity at all for years. It's been called a legal gray area, but in strict sense unless the titles were being held by the companies in question it wasn't illegal for them to be distributed. Sites like Underdogs, Abandonia, and others were very careful about taking games down if someone picked up a liscence, or put the game up for sale. This is incidently why things like GOG has been cutting into Abandonware. It also doesn't change the fact that it's had to compete with those versions of games being out there. Adding DRM to something people could have gotten DRM free 2 weeks before they put it up, isn't nessicarly going to go over well. GOG also does provide a valuable service by getting the games to run, which is frankly a pain in the arse for older titles.

This is one of the reasons why I'm such a jerk online at times, I get tired of argueing with people who literally know nothing about a subject, but get all upset when someone tells them what they don't like. I doubt you have any familiarity with Abandonware or the issues involving it at all, before I mentioned it, given that it's been a public thing as opposed to piracy which has been forced underground for legal reasons.

-

That said, right now STEAM seems like an all powerful juggernaut, the same with other DD platforms, back when the Apple II or C-64 were out it seemed like they weren't going anywhere either. Ditto for companies like Origin systems which disappeared, and numerous other "institutions". Things do change. The differance is that with physical media you can take a game from something that no longer exists, and play it with the right hardware. If STEAM goes down in 10-15 years, and you have a hankering to play a game you had on that platform on your old system which you kept around, your not going to be able to. You might be able to buy it again from whatever replaced STEAM, but why should you have to?

That's not paranoid, it's simply the way things are. It's called foresight... looking towards the long term as opposed to what is going on right now.

-

When it comes to people being booted for cheating, I can see how a service might lock someone out of a specific game, but being able to lock someone out of a service and all of their games (including single player ones) is a bit much. Simply having the power to do that opens doors for incredible abuses. No company should have the power to do something sweeping like that and cost people money that way, under any circumstances. By all means police multi-player in specific games, but locking people out of unrelated products is going too far, and it's already happened.

You simply choose to ignore the problem here, because nothing like this has happened to you. Should you find yourself locked out of a digital library, whether you cheated in a single game or not, I imagine your tune will change.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Sep 8, 2011
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bandman232 said:
I must be the only person on Earth that hates Steam. The way I see it, why waste 3 hours downloading a game when you can get it off a disc, install it, and then play it with in the next 5 minutes?
Because some people live 5 hours away from the nearest retailer? Because it takes longer to get it through mail? Because some people think Steam is more convenient? Because of Steam sales and awesome customer support?
 

Rad Party God

Party like it's 2010!
Feb 23, 2010
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Lumber Barber said:
But Origin had Steam to learn from.
Steam was one of a kind when it was released, and here comes Origin strutting in after Steam is active for - what - 6 years? And Origin somehow still fucks shit up.
Almost 10 years actually, Steam got released in 2003 and yet, Origin feels worse than 2003 Steam.
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
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Therumancer said:
lacktheknack said:
Therumancer said:
Let me be honest, nobody with half a brain likes digital distribution even a little bit.
Have you heard of "gog.com"?

You haven't? Oh. OK. Just asking.
Done a lot of business with them, but they aren't exactly what you and a lot of people think they are. I just wrote a lengthy run down on them in another message in this topic. A lot of their apparent generosity isn't as generous as you might think given the realities of dealing in old games and the pre-existing abandonware infrastructure it's been replacing.
All I know is that they're selling The Witcher (2), Alan Wake, The Chronicles of Riddick (the new one!) and Introversion's stuff (one of my favorite companies) at affordable prices with no DRM.

Are they the best prices? Nope. That's not the point. The point is that, when you said that "nobody with half a brain likes digital distribution even a little bit", what I got out of your post is that the reason for that is that digital distribution gives you no control over your purchases. Well, gog.com does. So I'd like to think I have half a brain, and I like what gog.com does and where it's going very much indeed.
 

elilupe

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Marshall Honorof said:
EA Defends Origin From Hardcore Crowd

Then again, EA has been wrong before. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/113956-EA-Makes-Nice-With-Activision-and-Modern-Warfare-3]


Permalink
Understatement of the decade, right there.

The only difference between the mistakes Steam and Origin have both made in their early days is that Steam was the First One. They were allowed to make mistakes in order to find the good combination they have now. Now, digital distribution sites are nothing new anymore, which means Origin shouldn't suffer from some of the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS Steam did in it's early days.

If Origin is ever going to truly compete with Steam, EA has to stop making up reasons for their flaws and start just fixing them.
 

Twilight_guy

Sight, Sound, and Mind
Nov 24, 2008
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I'm sorry EA but you're going to have to face it sometime... hardcore gamers hate you. They hate you with the irrational mindless rage usually reserve for Star Wars prequels. The nerd rage is beyond measure and they will never like you, ever. Cut your loses and stop trying to make them happy.
 

shrekfan246

Not actually a Japanese pop star
May 26, 2011
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cursedseishi said:
Well obviously there is a difference. You can be a Bioware fan but hate the current crop of shit being poured out by them and EA like a pair of symbiotic beings who decide to go parasite on a third party. You know, loving Dragon Age: Origins, Jade Empire, pretty much anything released before Dragon Age 2.

Then you got the apologistic sect who doesn't see any differentiation between the Bioware then and the EA/Bioware-Mythic creature now.


Kind of like how you have Old Squaresoft who made kick-ass Final Fantasies and a whole lot of other sweet games, and the Square-Enix now who stumbles about and can never really reach that sweet point like they could.
Or, and I'm just spit-balling here... you could be a person who enjoyed KoTOR, Jade Empire, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect, Dragon Age: Origins, and enjoyed Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3.

I know. It's a crazy thought.



That being said, I despise EA as a business. They're absolutely horrible, and they meddle in everything that they don't need to be meddling in.