EA Exec: Xbox One and PS4 Are "A Generation Ahead" Of PC

The Comfy Chair

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saxxon.de said:
Actually, this guy said the architecture is a generation ahead of current PCs. He didn't say anything about performance being better. And since CPU & GPU are integrated in one Chip and they share the exact same RAM, so they don't need to transfer data between CPU, GPU and VRAM over the comparably slow PCIe, he's technically right. Even if the PC Gaming Master Race doesn't want to hear it. If you want to make a comparison to the architecture of PS4/XBone & PC, you'd have to compare their performance with something along the lines of Intel Integrated Graphics from something like a Core i7. I suggest you play a current gen game on this setup and report back to this thread how well your PC fared. Mine sucks if I use the Integrated Graphics, I can tell you that.
Well, PCs do use APUs (in the low and upper-lower ranges) and have for a couple of years, so it's not ahead in that sense. The only generation advantage is that it's using Jaguar CPU cores instead of bobcat. Which is the next evolution of AMDs answer to ARM and Intel Atom. It's a good answer for that market segment, it seems like AMD have a got a real chance of succeeding in the large tablet space if they keep it up :D

As for the CPU to GPU communication, as far as i'm aware it doesn't actually produce any meaningful bottleneck at this time. PCI-E 3.0 runs at 16GB/s, which is more than enough for CPU to GPU communication. Even the best GPUs in the world hardly breach 8GB/s. Plus it seems that the time it takes for the CPU instructions to reach the GPU isn't a problem for highly demanding scientific computing, so i doubt it's a worry for rendering some sparks on a screen. The main need for high bandwidth is GPU to vRAM communication, which is the exact same kind of interface as an APU (although most GPUs have higher bandwidth than the PS4).
 

Scott Rothman

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Consoles have been perpetually behind PCs in hardware and architecture. It's why they can charge 300-500 for a console. I'm not sure in what world he is living where better hardware and infrastructure cost less than its competition.
 

cyvaris

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FopyRHHlt3M

Really? I mean....really?

Excuse me I think I need to sit down...I can't breath from laughing so hard.

The PC I built two years ago has better specs then the so far revealed Xbone specs....so uhmm yeah. Seems he's talking about a form of integrated chipset which honestly isn't really what I would want to be gaming on anyway.

So I'll just be overhear...enjoying my 16gbs of ram and 4.2ghz PC.
 

The Comfy Chair

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TheSniperFan said:
GDDR5 isn't better than DDR3.
If you were to replace your VRAM with GDDR3 RAM, your Graphics performance would suffer.
If you were to replace your system RAM with DDR5, your system performance would suffer.
DDR3 has a "low" throughput, but also a low latency. This is beneficial for your CPU.
DDR5 has a high throughput, but also a high latency. This is beneficial for your GPU.
It's not that the higher throughput makes up for the higher latency. That's the reason why PCs use DDR3 for your RAM and GDDR5 for your VRAM. Not the price or production. DDR3 is what one might call "CPU-Optimized", while DDR5 is "GPU-Optimized". It's about not compromising CPU performance for GPU performance or vice versa, since you can have both in your system perfectly fine and CPUs and GPUs have different strengths.

There are, of course, calculations you do on your CPU that would benefit from the higher throughput of DDR5 RAM. In such cases it might be worth looking whether you can use things like OpenCL to actually do them on your GPU. You also try to avoid having your GPU calculate stuff that would need a low latency.
Give this person a cookie, for they are right and deserve one.

In the end, DDR3 provides more than enough bandwidth for even the most beastly CPUs in the world. So a move to GDDR5 would only introduce higher latency with no benefit, since there'd be no need for the extra bandwidth.

APUs are good for a many great number of things, but they compromise in other areas. This is one of them.
 

rembrandtqeinstein

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meh wake me when the gameplay is actually better

so far all I see is the exact same games over and over again with prettier grass and skyboxes
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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TheSniperFan said:
GDDR5 isn't better than DDR3.
Dude you obviously don't know anything about this. I just explained you the benefit of having the same GDDR5 memory as both system and GPU memory. More bandwidth, higher speed, lower voltages, no latency issues. There are no downsides.
TheSniperFan said:
If you were to replace your VRAM with GDDR3 RAM, your Graphics performance would suffer.
That's because GDDR3 is older than GDDR5. Of course it would suffer.
TheSniperFan said:
If you were to replace your system RAM with DDR5, your system performance would suffer.
OK, I see the problem now. You think that GDDR5 and GDDR3 is the same as DDR5 and DDR3, only for graphics. Like I said, you don't know anything about this. DDR5 doesn't even exist. We are only getting DDR4 next year. DDR and GDDR is not the same thing. And the difference is far more than one being optimized for graphics and the other for system memory. This is kind of obvious since the PS4 is actually using GDDR5 as system memory.
TheSniperFan said:
DDR3 has a "low" throughput, but also a low latency. This is beneficial for your CPU.
DDR5 has a high throughput, but also a high latency. This is beneficial for your GPU.
I already explained this to you. Latency isn't an issue when your entire system is using the same type of memory. The timings are reduced by eliminating the transfer latency. It's good stuff. Timing makes very little difference in gaming performance anyway. Memory bandwidth however makes a huge difference. And PS4's memory bandwidth is 176Gb/s.
 

Akexi

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Kargathia said:
Honestly, that's troll bait if ever I saw it.

Or, as it is known in PR-speak: free publicity.
I think you summed it up perfectly. The assumption made by this EA chimp is staggering to the point of having the PC gaming demographic ready to flame.
 

The Comfy Chair

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Adam Jensen said:
I already explained this to you. Latency isn't an issue when your entire system is using the same type of memory. The timings are reduced by eliminating the transfer latency. It's good stuff. Timing makes very little difference in gaming performance anyway. Memory bandwidth however makes a huge difference. And PS4's memory bandwidth is 176Gb/s.
But memory has an inherent latency when combined with a memory controller.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_latency

APUs still use a memory controller. I don't see how latency would be reduced (This is not something i've heard of before in the way you're describing it.), since a memory controller is always present with all memory and a memory controller only ever handles one type of memory anyway. GDDR5 simply does have higher inherent latency.

Also, it's impossible to eliminate latency, because, well, electrons still need to move 'n' ting. Unless Sony have developed FTL communications AND moved away from CMOS in one go. If so, i salute them and i also wonder why the PS4 isn't more powerful in that case seeing how it must have fantastical tech inside it. Also, it means AMD have been holding out on us, the gits.

Although it's all a bit of a strange thing to be having too much of a discussion about, the CPU in the PS4 is at a slow clock speed anyway (it's also 'slow' in the traditional sense, which is important for why GDDR5 is a good idea for PS4), it's hardly going to need really low latency memory to do well. It's only running at ~1.6GHz with an average IPC (instructions per clock) of <1, so if it missed a few cycles waiting for memory it's hardly going to be a big deal. It's why CPUs back in the past could deal with having very large latency memory. Whereas High latency memory on a chip running at 4.5GHz with a higher IPC like ivy bridge would have a larger impact on performance as the CPU will potentially waste more cycles waiting for the memory and each of those cycles can do much more than something like Jaguar can. The higher the performance of the processor, the more relevant memory latency is.

As a result, Sony made a good move by using GDDR5, since it benefits the GPU greatly as it will utilize the bandwidth, but wont disadvantage the CPU much, as it's not fast enough to appreciate the lower latency of DDR3. PCs separate the two because both aspects of PCs are 'high performance', so a compromise results in large performance degradation of one component.

To put it in the form of an analogy: low latency memory in the PS4 would be like putting really, really expensive tires on a bog standard fiat punto. It's nice for the punto to have, but it wont improve handling much more than some 'good' tires. Whereas if you slapped those amazeballs tires on a ferrari, you'd notice it.
 

Anti-American Eagle

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I like how he's saying a machine where I can literally place the components of the "superior" machine into it and make it run is somehow "inferior."
 

mxfox408

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digital warrior said:
Dexter111 said:
Andy Chalk said:
That's a bold statement and Taneja offers no details to back it up, but I have to wonder how either the Xbone or the PS4 would stack up against a PC built around, say, a 4.5 Ghz quad-core CPU and three Nvidia Titans - since we are, after all, talking about the "highest-end PCs" available. Or is he referring to mass-market machines, the sort of off-the-rack (but still relatively "high-end") Dell rig your mom might buy to send emails and play hidden object games? That's a different scenario entirely, and one in which this comparison fits far more easily - but that's also a demographic that's far less likely to be interested in what Rajat Taneja thinks about the coming generation of consoles.
Don't be silly, since Sim City it's clear as day what he means, "EA Sports games require the power of the cloud to run", but the power of the cloud is still not strong enough for yearly roster updates.

At some point, both Sony and Microsoft will release detailed specs about the hardware in, and performance of, their new gaming consoles - and until it does, claims like this, even coming from a guy who'd appear to be in a position to know, are just going to look silly.
Anandtech had an interesting article on that: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6972/xbox-one-hardware-compared-to-playstation-4
My pc has better stats. Just sayin EA. Also want to ask a question when will you get your head out of your ass EA?
This post made me laugh lol because it hits right on the money. The PS4 and Xbox one are already behind in tech vs PC's and since consoles are designed on the at the moment tech as soon as they hit the market the PC surpasses it, not to mention that you can only upgrade PC's and not consoles which are stuck with whatever technologies they are released with at the time.
 

Vie

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What dose it matter if these new consoles are so much better than any PC ever built?

PC gaming is dead according to these guys.
 

nvzboy

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Currently my PC is only lagging behind the Xbone and PS4 due to me not having bought a new processor in the last three years. If I spend some money my pc is back on top of the two and even then it's not a high-end pc. This is just borderline kindergarten management if your boss accepts spreading such ridiculous lies just to boost sales.
 

Sehnsucht Engel

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Maybe EA should just learn to shut the fuck up already, since no one can take them seriously anyway, and this kind of stuff just makes it harder.
 

Flamb3Nobunaga

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For some reason I'm reminded of that one Critical Miss comic where that one red-haired British guy who's name escapes me is talking to someone about the sonic fan-base and he's trying not to laugh... my mind works is mysterious ways, i guess
 

rob_simple

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I'm not computer-literate enough to know if what he is claiming is true, but is anyone at EA, Sony or Microsoft aware that most of us dirty console gamers really just care about games?

You know, the things that consoles used to be all about?

I thought all this hardware dick-waving was reserved for the custom rig PC crowd, I give less than a shit how many gigawatts you've jammed into these consoles; have you got any games to show me that aren't sequels of franchises I stopped caring about two or three years ago?
 

Flamb3Nobunaga

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Flamb3Nobunaga said:
For some reason I'm reminded of that one Critical Miss comic where that one red-haired British guy who's name escapes me is talking to someone about the sonic fan-base and he's trying not to laugh... my mind works is mysterious ways, i guess
Found it http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/9556-Show-Me-Your-Journo-Face
 

marurder

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA... *breath* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Consoles will by definition, never be ahead of PC's. Not because PC's are better. But because that's the way technology migrates.
 

mxfox408

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Wenseph said:
Maybe EA should just learn to shut the fuck up already, since no one can take them seriously anyway, and this kind of stuff just makes it harder.
Lmao haha high five
 

cikame

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I can understand certain parts of it being faster, when making one type of device you can link the chips together much closer than a PC using very direct connections. But in terms of total performance, my PC has double the ram of these consoles and runs Crysis 3 at more than 75fps if i didn't limit it.

In comparison the new Killzone is 30fps...