Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Dragonborn DLC files found in latest patch

Smolderin

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Just thought I should put a word in here. I respect other people's opinions, but I really can't fathom how people think Skyrim doesn't have enough RPG elements. I mean...come on...really? Where else can you defend a band of roaming travelers against a giant attack, only to be interrupted by a dragon, and then go home to read a book, cook dinner and talk to your wife before going to bed? If that isn't a roleplaying experience then I don't know what is. (and I didn't even cover character progression) People can come and reply to me all they want about how Oblivion, Morrowind, or other games did so and so better, Skyrim is a game where I can make my own story and I can do it my way. It is because of this that until a game comes out and does this better, for me, Skyrim is the best RPG ever created.
 

Zenn3k

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Lil_Rimmy said:
Zenn3k said:
Except the situation above never leads to anything. Just quest complete, never to be spoken of again. If I kill all the Kings in Freeside, they are dead, the ending credits says, they are dead. Other NPCs mention that they are dead, the game world stays true to itself. Quests involving them and the NPC signing a truce, can't happen. If I kill random Redperson lady in the Inn during this quest...nobody mentions it, nobody cares, nothing changes in the plot. Thats a very stark contrast. If it doesn't matter to anybody in the game world, why should I care? BTW - You can make most everyone live a fairly good life at the end of New Vegas, but lets stick to Skyrim.
Just want to pop in to say if you kill certain people in towns and villages, things change. Like in I think Riverwood, if you kill a shop owner her brother takes over, and mentions the killing every now and then. Smithies are taken over by sons and daughters and I know a lumber mill in some place gets taken over by a friend of the guy if you kill him. Just thought I'd say that.

Oh, also, people send thugs and assassins to kill you if they see you stealing or murdering their family members/friends. Yes, even kids will send assassins.
Those are all really small things that can easily go unnoticed.

My biggest problem with Skyrim is: Say I side with the Stormcloaks, I come across an Imperial Camp. The leader of that camp refuses to die, just gets knocked out over and over again. THAT crap is stupid, its immersion breaking and completely unnecessary.
 

Jynthor

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SajuukKhar said:
Jynthor said:
Where would one apply to the College of Elder Scrolls Lore?
I know quite a bit but only on the surface level(As in how everything appears to be)

Basically, where would one start to really learn TES lore?
The single most important lore document, which is basically a summery of most of the metaphysics of the series, is Vehk's Teaching, specifically the "Tower" section, and the "More on the Psijic Endeavor" section.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/vehks-teaching

Cosmology, is also pretty good for a clear cut explanation of the universe's structure.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/cosmology

The Nu-Mantia Intercept is written very oddly, but it explains the towers, the things that hold up Mundus.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept

The Metaphysics of Morrowind breaks down some of the more...... gamey elements, like the pausing time by opening menus, and loading save games, and the construction kit, and how they fit into the lore. Its mostly in section 3, you can skip sections 1, 2, and 4 if you want, 3 is the important one.
https://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-1/
https://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-2/
https://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-3/
https://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/11/23/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-4/

The Forum Archives section of the Imperial Library also contains many useful developer quotes, and old threads about lore points, though many of the threads have lost formatting over various site upgrades and can be hard to read.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives
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Really there's a bunch of other things found in the forums archives sections, such as how Lorkhan is Akatosh, and in Kikbride's quote section he explains a bunch of stuff about countless topics.

The Imperial Library is really the hub of all Elder scrolls lore, mostly everything in the Obscure Texts sections, and the forum Archives section, can teach you things.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/obscure-texts
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives

But most of it wont be brought up, as long as you understand
-Vehk's teachings
-Cosmology
-The nu-mantia intercepts
-The Metaphysics of Morrowind
All you have to remember is Lorkhan is Akatosh and Talos is Lorkhan reborn, and you got most of the important stuff.

Also, there is also a process of mantling, a process of "walk like them until they must walk like you" its the thing that turned the champion of cyrodiil into Sheogorath. Basically by acting like Sheo, having Sheo's staff, sitting on the throne of sheo, and basically just being Sheo, the champion was able to literally turn himself into Sheo because he acted like Sheo so much no one could tell the difference and thus he became sheo.

Mantling is also what made Tiber Septim, Ysmir Wulfharth, and Zurin Arctus merge into Talos who is Lorkhan reborn, because they replaced the same events that Akatosh, Lorkhan, and MAgnus, took at the mortal realms creation.
Thanks, I guess I have some reading to do.
 

BathorysGraveland

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THis might actually be worth it for the spears and ambushes alone. Ambushing could be a really cool feature if they pull it off right. They probably won't, but hey.
 

SajuukKhar

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Zenn3k said:
Those are all really small things that can easily go unnoticed.

My biggest problem with Skyrim is: Say I side with the Stormcloaks, I come across an Imperial Camp. The leader of that camp refuses to die, just gets knocked out over and over again. THAT crap is stupid, its immersion breaking and completely unnecessary.
Actually it is entirely necessary.

At the end of the civil war, whichever leader you sided with tells you there are still camps of enemy soldiers in the wilds, these exist so Bethesda could explain in the next game how the other side "won" if you didnt actually pick them.

they gorilla warfare to victory.

that and they were supposed to be killable, they were part of a post civil war quest to kill off the enemy leaders that was removed, Bethesda just never removed their essential tags.

Politeia said:
Funnily enough, I love what Game's workshop has done with Warhammer 40K it makes the universe far more interesting, there is nothing greater then the human imagination, and letting people use their imagination to make up whatever stories they want allows for endless possible interesting stories.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree, the storyline of the guilds have gotten universally better since the days of Morrowind IMO.

Morrowind's Guild quest were mostly unconnected fetch quests with a small "plot" thrown into the last 4. Oblivion's and Skyrim actually gave the guilds plots, with Skyrim's being entirely plot focused.

While one may argue that not having rank requirements makes them "unrealistic" people have shown in Morrowind that having requirements just causes people to exploit around them, and indeed become guild master of the Mages guild without knowing any spells.

Guild requirements don't exist because there is literally no way for Bethesda to create something that people wouldn't gltich/exploit around. You can't create something that prevents non-mages from advancing in guilds that isn't able to be got around.

Why you need Bethesda to put time into trying to devise a means to stop non mages from advancing in the guild when you can just
A. Not join the guild unless you are that class
B. Chose not to advance in the quests until you rise your skills
Politeia said:
-They made you Arch-Mage because you survived Labrythian, killed a Dragon priest, got the staff of Magnus, and stopped Ancanno from destroying the world using the Eye of Magnus. You did something none of them could have done, and indeed, in doing so, you proved to them you are better then them.

-The Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim is destroyable by The Empire because without the Night Mother most of the contracts people make go unheard, I was talking about the DB through history, in Oblivion they even tell you the Count of Cheydenhall knows exactly where the sanctuary is, but fear of the DB prevents anyone from hurting them.

Their nonchalantness about being seen is because they know that no one is going to attack them out of fear, and indeed, everyone knows where the Black Door is, and knows the DB is there, and yet no one has done anything about it out of fear.

It isn't until someone, you, actually grows the balls to kill one of them do people realize "hey, maybe they aren't as badass as we thought before", and thus gain the courage to attack them.

-Aela wouldn't accept being Harbinger because she isn't the leader type, she even mentions this during the questline, and when talking to her. On top of that it was YOU who slayed the Glenmoril witches, got their heads to cure Kodlack, and actually freed Kodlak's soul.

And I don't doubt those quests you did for Aela to strike at the silver hand, after they killed Sjkor, earned you respect in her eyes,

-You are aware that after beating the main questline, you still have to do around 30+ side jobs before you become guild master of the thieves guild? You literally have to do 30 small quests worth of stealing, pickpocketing, planting items in peoples houses, and other thief related stuff, before you are made guild Master.

Also, the entire last dungeon, with the exception of Mercer himself, can be achived through sneaking, and indeed, Karliah and Brynolf even say several times in the missions "we can sneak past these guys or fight them, your call". I got through the entire last dungeon without killing a single Falmer, it was the ultimate sneaking test.

-Considering the shape of the Daedric temples in Skyrim, the Daedra don't exactly have many, or ANY at all, worshipers anymore, the Daedra are kind of in a pinch here.

Meridia allowing you to help her even if you are a vampire can be explained by "the person she wants you to stop is creating MORE undead, so she has two options
1. accept the help of one undead
2. Let some guy make armies of undead
You are the lesser of two evils at the moment, and knowing the Daedric princes, shes probably plotting to kill you later also.

-Actually you did sorta earn the title of Listener of the DB, you are the one who committed all the killings leading up to the Emperor's assassination, and you did survive the PO assault.
Politeia said:
And along the way you are accosted by no bandits, find no new sites, hunt no deer/fox/rabbit, or anything else you could reasonably expect while walking around normally. It's teleportation alright, very slow teleportation. I don't begrudge it's use, nor want it removed, as it's a convenience thing.
I never get attacked by bandits while walking on the road normally, they stay off to the wilderness, and I, and most people in general, wouldn't hunt things while walking between two cities.
 

Zenn3k

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SajuukKhar said:
Zenn3k said:
Those are all really small things that can easily go unnoticed.

My biggest problem with Skyrim is: Say I side with the Stormcloaks, I come across an Imperial Camp. The leader of that camp refuses to die, just gets knocked out over and over again. THAT crap is stupid, its immersion breaking and completely unnecessary.
Actually it is entirely necessary.

At the end of the civil war, whichever leader you sided with tells you there are still camps of enemy soldiers in the wilds, these exist so Bethesda could explain in the next game how the other side "won" if you didnt actually pick them.

they gorilla warfare to victory.

that and they were supposed to be killable, they were part of a post civil war quest to kill off the enemy leader that was removed, Bethesda just never removed their essential tags.

So you're saying the camps exist to force canon on the player in a later game (that doesn't exist yet) and making their choice in a major event in the story of the game meaningless...and Bethesda's lazy development left clear immersion breaking essential tags on the leaders of those camps even though they have no actual legit reason to be essential.

And you still think this is a good game? Incredibly lazy development, the game is filled with it.
 

SajuukKhar

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Zenn3k said:
So you're saying the camps exist to force canon on the player in a later game (that doesn't exist yet) and making their choice in a major event in the story of the game meaningless...and Bethesda's lazy development left clear immersion breaking essential tags on the leaders of those camps even though they have no actual legit reason to be essential.

And you still think this is a good game? Incredibly lazy development, the game is filled with it.
Actually they are most likely just going to Dragon Break the entire civil war, making both endings happen at the same time, like they did with Daggerfall's 8 endings, so Bethesda needs to set it up so both sides have an ability to "win".

Doing either side isn't meaingless, because you did help that side win, both in this game, and the future one.
 

RedDeadFred

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Legion said:
Wakikifudge said:
Zenn3k said:
My reasoning is simple. You should not have to self impose rules on a game for that world to make sense. Skyrim does not make sense within itself without self imposing rules on what you are and aren't allowed to do.
I don't think you really got his point on this issue. I'll try and clarify a bit:

Bethesda leaves all options open for players because some people might want to make a god like character who is master of all (I myself created a character like this). They don't impose any restrictions because the character I just described would be impossible to make if they were there.

However, if you only want your character to be an honorable warrior who doesn't partake in magic, then you can simply just do the main quest and companions guild. Yes you can argue that using shouts is magic but if that really turns you off, don't even do the main quest. You can simply make your own story. I'll admit that it does take a lot of creativity some times but if you really develop your character and give them motivations for what they do, I find it to be a rewarding experience.

This kind of roleplaying is definitely not for everyone though. Some people will be find it to be boring because they can't come up with anything interesting to do. That's totally fine but for me at least, Skyrim is a framework for which I can create my own stories and characters in. This is where the long lasting appeal comes from for a lot of long term Elder Scrolls players.

I can understand why you might not enjoy doing this but I wish you wouldn't dismiss an entire way of playing the game as a bad design decision simply because it's not the type thing you lie.

For example: I don't like RTS games very much. I get bored very quickly but I can see the appeal for others and know that many are actually very good games. I don't dismiss them as badly designed simply because they aren't what floats my boat.

Anyway, that was me trying to help you understand where a lot of Elder Scrolls players and myself are coming from. I hope this helped but if it didn't, no hard feelings. I can't understand why people like some things sometimes either.
My issue is, that they don't provide alternatives for a lot of things. If you don't want to use magic then you are cut off from a a lot of things that require you joining the mages circle even though they don't really have anything to do with magic.

Or if you want to play as a "lawman", yet you cannot take on the Thieves Guild.

I have enjoyed role-playing several characters in Skyrim, but in all cases the game never lasts very long because unless you play as a Master-of-all-trades character, you are not in for a very lengthy game.
That's fair. I personally spend a lot of time developing a really in depth character before actually starting to play. This way I can just make up tasks for my character based around the game. I actually made a character who I simply roleplayed as a hunter. That was literally it for a long time but I was so engaged in my character that this wasn't boring for me (I'm sure it would be dreadful for others). One day my hunter was unable to catch a meal so he went to the nearby Riverwood and stole some food. This was easy and eventually led him to a life of crime with the thieves guild. He's now a master thief who continues to do random missions but also spends time hunting like he used to.

You do make a good point though. Unless you're willing to go that in depth with your roleplaying, you're going to have fairly short lived characters if you impose those artificial restraints.
 

White Lightning

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Jesus... how the hell do you know so much about TES SajuukKahr? It's like... you were THERE or something.

Well, if this is all true I'm going to have to make a new character. From what I've read it looks pretty awesome.
 

SajuukKhar

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Politeia said:
In order to save space and stop as many giant quote walls I'm just going to universally snip your post down.
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--I don't think the Oblivion setting change was bad, a jungle setting would have
1. Near impossible to make on the engine
2. Been a pain in the ass to play through
They did what they though they had to in order to make the game fun, and when making a game, the game's fun level comes before anything, even internal consistency.

--What win button outside of Helgan?

Also, I felt like I earned my place in all the guilds in Skyrim
---For The Companions I retrieved many parts of Wuuthrad, killed many members of the Werewolf hunting group the Silver Hand, killed the Glenmorial witches who put the curse on the companions in the first place, fought through the ghoss of the 500 companions, and freed Kodlak's soul.
---For the College of Winterhold I found the eye of Magnus, fought through Dwemer ruins, Falmer, the Labrynthian, and a Dragon priest, recovered the Staff of Magnus, and then stopped Ancanno from using the eye to destroy the world.
---For the Thieves Guild I tracked down and murdered a betrayer of the guild, recovered the Skeleton Key, fought through Nocturnal's Temple, returned the key, and after restoring the guild's luck, I did many jobs and rebuilt the Guild's influence throughout Skyrim by helping improtant people in each major city.
---For the Dark Brotherhood, I killed a bunch of people, and then began a systematic manipulation of The emperor to draw him to Skyrim, wekaen his guard, and infiltrate his location to kill him, survives a purging assault by the Pentious Oculates, and then found and killed the Real Emperor.

I felt like I did more, and earned my position more then I ever did in any past Elder Scrolls game.


--I don't understand your complaint about the College, as you said it is geared for mages, and indeed all the quests are about mage stuff, I don't know what you would have wanted instead?

--Then no Elder Scroll game could ever give you a sense of accomplishment then, guild level requirements don't work, and indeed it is impossible to create something that cant be passed with magic that couldn't be gotten around having zero magic skill and just using scrolls. there is literally nothing they could do that MAKES you have to be a mage to beat it.

--The College is a place were people go to share information, and perform experiments tofurther increase ones power. this isn't the Arcane university, this is a place of power hoarding, and you showed that you had more power then any of them. It does fit.

--No it was pretty serious, the Dark Brotherhood had sanctuaries in every major city in Cyrodiil, all of which were known by the local counts to exist, and no one dared make a move against them because they feared what he DB would do to them if they tried.

--The reason why The Empire let the DB exist is because they were considered necessary, the Emperor's and councilors, and many other high ranking officials frequently used the DB services. the DB was the grease on the wheels of the political machine, a public enemy that everyone always went to for help when they needed it, and even though the DB was wekaened considerably, it was still useful. Hell when you meet The emperor he makes it clear he knows what the DB is capeable of, the destruction of the DB is not really the will of the Empire, but the will of Maro, trying to gain some reputation.

--All of those things you mentioned about Aela are also true of Vilkas and Farkas, they were all equally qualified. She isn't objectively better then either of them, or you, and she offers no more advise then the other two after the questline is over either. And on top of that The companions are a group focused on proving their strength, something which you proved to be higher then anyone else's by all the stuff you did. You were the strongest, you carried out Kodlak's will, you freed his soul, you did most of it.

--You cant go in slaughtering anyone you want in the Theives guild, they even have the same no-kill rule as Oblivion. The only people you can kill are the Mercs at goldenglow, and the mercs at the east empire company secret backroom, and even then, they advise against it.

--So what your saying, in an RPG, a game about choices, you don't want choices? Pardon me for finding your argument about being able to sneak through the last dungeon needing to be forced to be unrealtitic and nonsensical.

--Why do you find the lack of Daedra worshipers hard to believe? did you forget what happened in Oblivion? After the Oblivion crisis the Meythic dawn, and Daedra worshipers, where hunted down in mass.

Also the Vigilants of Stendarr are a super zealots religious order, it would make no sense to join them, even less sense as joining the Forsworn.

And no the forsworn are not Daedra worshipers, they worship the old gods, the Daedra worshiper thing was from that one guy in Markarth. The Forsword worship Lorkhan and the old gods.

--Aurorans were servants of Umaril, hes dead, and with his death I wouldn't be surprised if Meredia got rid of them. also you forget her dawnbreaker sword does cast a clensing light.

When playing as a vampire, Dawnbreakers explosion also affects you, using her weapon hurts you, she very well could have hopes you would kill yourself with it.

--Considering the player-character IS an avatar of Lorkhan, and Sithis is Lokrhan's father, and Sithis is Lorkhan;s father in the same way that God is jesus's father, in that they are both the same person on a hgher plane of existence, It is impossible to NOT be pre-desinted to become listener, YOU ARE SITHIS incarnate.

--I think it assumed you use the roads to move form place to place until you get near the place you want to go, and even then bandits are not so infesting that you cant walk around them.

White Lightning said:
Jesus... how the hell do you know so much about TES SajuukKahr? It's like... you were THERE or something.

Well, if this is all true I'm going to have to make a new character. From what I've read it looks pretty awesome.
Ive been reading Elder Scrolls lore since Mororwind came out, I've had a decade to hear what there is to hear.
 

SajuukKhar

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Politeia said:
How do you figure a jungle setting would've been impossible to make on the current engine? A modder has done a, somewhat, faithful recreation of Elsweyr in Skyrim. Granted there is a big difference between the engines of the two games but they're both on the same generation of consoles. I don't believe for a second that Oblivion wouldn't have been able to create a jungle setting.........
A jungle setting requires massively dense areas of tree, tons of foliage including swinging vines, thick plant life that would be a nightmare for AI. everything about cyrodiil being a jungle would have been a performance nightmare.

Jungle settings on the N64 also weren't that great, and didn't require the same amount of graphic fidelity, or interactions between NPCs, nor were they particularly thick.

Also considering that
-Elswyer is badlands,
-Black Marsh is a swamp
-Valenwood is a forest, and I doubt the walking trees will be walking

All of which are significantly less dense then a tropical jungle, I don't expect them to be changed. Although, as I said before, the walking trees of Valenwood most likely wont move because of engine limitations.
Politeia said:
I'm speaking hypothetically, you continue to assert that it wouldn't be possible to have guild requirements because people would exploit their way around it. Which is an insipid argument because you can exploit your way around everything. Following your line of reasoning (if it can be exploited around there is no point in creating it) then Bethesda may as well create a button outside of Helgen that, when pressed, kills Alduin and you're showered with validation.
Now that is an insipid argument. The removal of exploitable guild requirements is nowhere near the same as reducing an entire questline down to a button press. Your entire argument is hyperbole.

And my reasoning behind not having guild requirements comes from years worth of debate on the official Bethesda forums about how they could be put back in and yet not be exploitable. No one, to this day, on any forum I have ever been to, has been able to come up with a way to have guild requirements, and make them not by passable through exploits. It has literally nothing to do with "just because Bethesda didn't do anything about it in Morrowind it means they cant do it now".
Politeia said:
A place amongst them? Sure, you've even earned yourself some rewards and a heroic title or twelve. However, the accountant who saves his company millions of dollars isn't named CFO. The Medal of Honor recipient isn't elevated to a position amongst the Joints Chiefs of Staff. I would totally expect rewards for what you've done, I wouldn't expect to be elevated to positions of the highest authority within those organizations. Simply put, asskicking does not equal authority and it makes even less sense for guilds who explicitly don't have asskicking as part of their mantra.
None of those examples you listed take place in a mid-evil world were personal achievement DOES give people places of power. Trying to use modern-day logic in a mid-evil type landscape, when IRL asskicking did make people kings, is flawed at its core.
Politeia said:
The position of many here, including yourself, who are opposed to guild restrictions is that it would prevent people not geared towards fulfilling those restrictions from joining said guild. In total truth, I wonder why they would even want to join them in the first place. That's why I made my comment about the rewards of the various guilds being focused on the archetype they serve. The only legitimate reason for refusing restrictions is to allay thr concerns of completionists. If we go purely by achievement statistics on steam, however, most players of Skyrim are not completionists.
That isn't my position at all, my position is "if they don't work, and never can work, why bother wasting development time that can be spent elsewhere putting them in"

It has nothing to do with wanting to do everything on one guy, because I don't want to, it has to do with the fact they are a waste, and serve no purpose.
Politeia said:
You demonstrated nothing of the sort you were simply able to resolve the situation. That's enough to gain you high praise indeed, but title of Archmage? Why? The ability to resolve a problem doesn't mean you're the best-suited for the task of leading the College.
You resolved a situation that they were unable to, being able to do something no one else was does show you are more powerful then they are.
Politeia said:
If we take this to its logical conclusion we can assume the Dark Brotherhood is, therefore, a law unto itself. This is the sort of thing that great nations historically attempt to stamp out. The relationship between the Dark Brotherhood and the Empire is a little unrealistic.
The real world also lacks a group of shadow assassins who have been able to successfully murder anyone they want to and get away with it.
-The Empire knows it needs people to do dirty work off the records for them
-The Empire knows the DB can provide that service
-The Empire knows that an attempt to destroy the DB would cause retaliation, and that the DB has the power to kill anyone.
I don't see how that is unrealistic.
Politeia said:
Following the quest-line she becomes the main quest-giver for the Companions. In fact, she was that before the end of the Companions quest-line. So, no, I don't think she is equally as qualified as anyone else in the in the Circle, it seems evident that she's eminently more qualified than anyone else in the circle.
Actually, following the questline, Alea offers no more work then either Farkas or Vilkas.

Furthermore, you can actually skip Aela's silver hand tasks and help Farkas and vilkas with other tasks in order to advance the plot, you really have to do zero quests for Aela, she was never the main anything.
Politeia said:
Advise against it, sure, but do nothing about it. It's bad for business to slaughter mercs too!
No it isn't..... they are Mercs. Killing people of power, clients, and targets of thefts, is bad for business, killing random mercs is not, and never has been.
Politeia said:
You're right...God-Mode Sue walking through the living quarters of a hostile race is much more realistic. Sure, if you want to pull out Blarrrghizbah the Flame of the Nords, your daedric greatsword enchanted with both fiery soul trap and flame damage, and go to town on the Falmer then be my guest. I do not think running around with Blarrrghizbah and whacking Falmer should be the easier way of doing it. You're deep into hostile territory, deeeeeeeeeeep.
Killing the Falmer isn't easier then sneaking past them, the Falmer are blind, sneaking past them is 10X more easier, and less time consuming, then fighting them.
Politeia said:
I'm sure, hence I would say there's a good reason for them being in hiding. However, Namira, Boethiah, and Clavicus Vile all seem to have good sized followings. This makes me wonder "hey, where are the other daedra worshipers at?" Hiding is fine, gone strains credulity because I want to know how the daedric prince of fucking cannibalism has a larger following than Meridia and Azura combined.
-Calvicus's followers only followed him because they wanted him to and their Vampirism, and skyrim is the land of Vampires and Werewovles.
-Boethiah is an ancestral leader of the Dunmer, who showed them the path of CHIM. Her following is explained by its the Dunmers main god.
-Ill give you Namira though.
-Azura is a vengeful ***** who fucks with people for the lulz. Also the one priest of Azura tells you what happened to the other followers, Azura mind raped them with visions for so long they left out of fear of what they would see.
-Meridia was never really had that large of a following to being with.
Politeia said:
So what you're saying, in an RPG, a game about choices, you don't want choices? Pardon me for finding your argument about being unable to join the Vigilant or Forsworn as unrealistic and nonsensical.
considering the Forsworn are native Bretons, something you can never be, and who see all outsiders as invaders, joining them makes literally no sense. Also you can help the forsworn King escape jail and the camp that he goes to becomes friendly to you.

The Vigilants are just super religious ass holes, they existed to be killed off, the whole Dawnguard expansion was basically about joining a group that is basically the Vigilants after the Vigliants get murdered.
Politeia said:
Dubious -- the Hagravens certainly have a connection with the Forsworn and have an unsubtle connection to Hircine. As manbeasts I find it likely they're creations of his.
The Glenmoral Hagraves have a connection to Hircine, not Hagravens in general. Also, all of Hircine's creations are were-beats, not manbeats, Hagravens are not were-creates.
Politeia said:
Why on earth would she do that? Nothing from the lore has ever suggested to me that they were created for Umaril, put to his use sure. I'm just saying, if Mehrunes Dagon can zap a few dremora into existence right outside his shrine then Meridia can pop in a few aurorans to give me what for while I'm in her temple. How much energy does it take for a daedric prince to create a lesser daedra?
A Daedric princes ability to summon beings into Mundus is directly controlled by how many people worship them.

The Daedric pacts with Sotha Sil, and Akatosh, prevent Daedra from summoning things willy-nilly into Mundus without having power from worshipers. Its been like that since Morrowind. Dagon was only able to summon his Dremora because he had a follower left in Skyrim, Meredia had no one.
Politeia said:
Oh so she's not the daedric prince of life and energy as much as she's the daedric prince of being passive-aggressive and lazy. Sorry, I was confused; the take-charge Alpha ***** who levitated me 500 feet into the air then dropped me to prove her power clearly must not be the same Meridia we're talking about.
Again, as I pointed out before, Daedra need worshipers, and followers, in order to send forces into Mundus. Meredia had no one. the best she could do was yell at you.

Politeia said:
Again, granted, I showed no overt problem with the way or the why this is brought about just a general annoyance at "but destiny" plot points.
The entire story of every Elder scrolls game since the beginning has been a "destiny" plot

I don't understand how ever got into the Elder scrolls when the entire premise of the game is you are a hero chosen by destiny to fulfill prophecies foretold by the Elder scrolls.

Politeia said:
There's too many assumptions at work for me to conclusively say it's not immersion breaking in the slightest. Again though, it's not something I would say Bethesda should do away with. I'm just fine with disabling it myself in the ini file.
the fact that I can walk from Windhelm to Solitude, and not fight anything, shows that not getting attacked isn't exactly out of the question.

It really isn't difficulty in the slightest to walk anyone and not get attacked. There is no assumptions because you can do it in the game for yourself.
 

Russian_Assassin

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It would be awesome if thy actually let us walk past the borders to the east of Windhelm and then have a boat take us to the island. Although I am sure that we will either fly there or sail from Windhelm or any other port of Skyrim.
 

SajuukKhar

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Russian_Assassin said:
It would be awesome if thy actually let us walk past the borders to the east of Windhelm and then have a boat take us to the island. Although I am sure that we will either fly there or sail from Windhelm or any other port of Skyrim.
Its boats, they have found files relating to boat riding.

It would be cool if it was like the Fallout 3:point lookout opening boat ride.
 

Russian_Assassin

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SajuukKhar said:
Its boats, they have found files relating to boat riding.

It would be cool if it was like the Fallout 3:point lookout opening boat ride.
It would be silly not to be able to fly there... Probably Solstheim will be in it's own world space.
 

SajuukKhar

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Russian_Assassin said:
It would be silly not to be able to fly there... Probably Solstheim will be in it's own world space.
Solstheim wasn't in its own world space in Morrowind, and since there is literally most of Morrowind, Cyrodiil, and parts of Highrock and Hammerfell in the game already, I don't see why they couldn't add Solstheim.
 

endtherapture

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There was more of a sense of progress in the guilds in Oblivion than in Skyrim.

I remember I had to do a good ten hours of questing just to get into the Mage's guild in the Imperial City - going around the world doing all those quests and slowly rising up the ranks gave me a sense of progress.

In comparison in Skyrim I just turned up and did like 4 hours of quests and was suddenly the leader of the guild.
 

SEXTON HALE

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Ive been witing for proper dlc on the ps3 fo months now
Its about time they got shit done, so excited!!!