Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Dragonborn DLC files found in latest patch

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SajuukKhar

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Dandark said:
Now that is something I knew nothing about, are these magical towers things built by the Gods like the adamantine tower? How are they destroyed at the end of each game? I have only played Skyrim and Oblivion, what tower was destroyed in Skyrim and how?

Im probably being a bother so could you recommend a site where I can look up and learn about this kind of thing? I love the lore for elder scrolls but suck at actually figuring most of it out.
Adamantine tower was built by the gods, as was Red-Tower, also known as Red-Mountain

The other towers were built by the Elves, the first of the spirits to take shape, who wanted to mimic their "parents".
-White-Gold was built by the Alyeids
-Crystal-Like-Law was built by the Altmer
-Walks-Brass was built by the Dwemer
-Green-Sap was built by the Bosmer
-Orichalc was built by the Left-Handed elves
-Snow-Throat's origin is unknown, being a mountain it seems unlikely the Falmer "built" it, but the Falmer were Snow-Throat's "users"s most certainly.

As for the towers destruction
-The Redguards destroyed Orichalc when they destroyed their homeland of Yokuda.
-Walks-Brass was destroyed by Zurin Arctus, the Underking, at the end of Daggerfall.
-Red-tower was disabled by the Nerevarine when he freed the Heart of Lorkhan at the end of Morrowind.
-Green-Sap went offline shortly before Oblivion occurred, presumably because of the actions of the Mythic dawn.
-The armies of Dagon destroyed Crystal-Like-Law during the Oblivion Crisis.
-White-Gold tower was taken offline when Martin destroyed the Amulet of Kings at the end of Oblivion.
-The tower destroyed in Skyrim was Snow-Throat, and it was "deactivated" by the dis-unity of the Nords.

*note* When I say "destroyed" I mean no longer working, the physical tower may exist still, but the powers of molding creation it once had are gone.
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And no, you are not being a bother, in fact your being far more on-topic then some people on this thread.
 

Jynthor

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Where would one apply to the College of Elder Scrolls Lore?
I know quite a bit but only on the surface level(As in how everything appears to be)

Basically, where would one start to really learn TES lore?
 

SajuukKhar

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Jynthor said:
Where would one apply to the College of Elder Scrolls Lore?
I know quite a bit but only on the surface level(As in how everything appears to be)

Basically, where would one start to really learn TES lore?
The single most important lore document, which is basically a summery of most of the metaphysics of the series, is Vehk's Teaching, specifically the "Tower" section, and the "More on the Psijic Endeavor" section.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/vehks-teaching

Cosmology, is also pretty good for a clear cut explanation of the universe's structure.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/cosmology

The Nu-Mantia Intercept is written very oddly, but it explains the towers, the things that hold up Mundus.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept

The Metaphysics of Morrowind breaks down some of the more...... gamey elements, like the pausing time by opening menus, and loading save games, and the construction kit, and how they fit into the lore. Its mostly in section 3, you can skip sections 1, 2, and 4 if you want, 3 is the important one.
https://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-1/
https://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-2/
https://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-3/
https://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/11/23/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-4/

The Forum Archives section of the Imperial Library also contains many useful developer quotes, and old threads about lore points, though many of the threads have lost formatting over various site upgrades and can be hard to read.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives
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Really there's a bunch of other things found in the forums archives sections, such as how Lorkhan is Akatosh, and in Kikbride's quote section he explains a bunch of stuff about countless topics.

The Imperial Library is really the hub of all Elder scrolls lore, mostly everything in the Obscure Texts sections, and the forum Archives section, can teach you things.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/obscure-texts
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives

But most of it wont be brought up, as long as you understand
-Vehk's teachings
-Cosmology
-The nu-mantia intercepts
-The Metaphysics of Morrowind
All you have to remember is Lorkhan is Akatosh and Talos is Lorkhan reborn, and you got most of the important stuff.

Also, there is also a process of mantling, a process of "walk like them until they must walk like you" its the thing that turned the champion of cyrodiil into Sheogorath. Basically by acting like Sheo, having Sheo's staff, sitting on the throne of sheo, and basically just being Sheo, the champion was able to literally turn himself into Sheo because he acted like Sheo so much no one could tell the difference and thus he became sheo.

Mantling is also what made Tiber Septim, Ysmir Wulfharth, and Zurin Arctus merge into Talos who is Lorkhan reborn, because they replaced the same events that Akatosh, Lorkhan, and MAgnus, took at the mortal realms creation.
 

SweetLiquidSnake

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Why are so many people butt hurt and complaining. When I read the article I smiled and thought "sounds great I can't wait until it comes out"

Why must people constantly be like "durr morrowind was so much better.... durrr why did they take away spears..... darrrr why can't I use levitate"

Can't we all just be happy with the game? Skyrim is great, so was oblivion, and I'm sure morrowind was too.
 

AlotFirst

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Jynthor said:
Where would one apply to the College of Elder Scrolls Lore?
I know quite a bit but only on the surface level(As in how everything appears to be)

Basically, where would one start to really learn TES lore?
uesp.net is pretty much regarded as the official information hub, on everything Elder Scrolly, by the Elder Scrolls community. And I suppose that if you want to have Lore discussions the official Elder Scrolls forums would be a good place to go (stay clear of the trolls though, we're still talking about forums.

Edit: Wow, I got ültra-ninja'd by Sajuuk. Ignore this post.
 

Jynthor

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AlotFirst said:
Jynthor said:
Where would one apply to the College of Elder Scrolls Lore?
I know quite a bit but only on the surface level(As in how everything appears to be)

Basically, where would one start to really learn TES lore?
uesp.net is pretty much regarded as the official information hub, on everything Elder Scrolly, by the Elder Scrolls community. And I suppose that if you want to have Lore discussions the official Elder Scrolls forums would be a good place to go (stay clear of the trolls though, we're still talking about forums.

Edit: Wow, I got ültra-ninja'd by Sajuuk. Ignore this post.
I know UESP although I don't find the lore on it goes deep enough.
As for the forums, I got banned over a year ago, that's not really an option.
 

SajuukKhar

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AlotFirst said:
uesp.net is pretty much regarded as the official information hub, on everything Elder Scrolly, by the Elder Scrolls community. And I suppose that if you want to have Lore discussions the official Elder Scrolls forums would be a good place to go (stay clear of the trolls though, we're still talking about forums.

Edit: Wow, I got ültra-ninja'd by Sajuuk. Ignore this post.
UESP is good, for gameplay, it really isn't that great a place for lore.

The UESP admins are super butthurts about not putting anything that isn't directly found in the game s on there, even if it has been confirmed by developers, or the games themselves, as true.

I understand why, but they leave out so much.
 

Dandark

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SajuukKhar said:
The single most important lore document, which is basically a summery of most of the metaphysics of the series is

Vehk's Teaching: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/vehks-teaching
Specifically the "Tower" section, and the "More on the Psijic Endeavor" section.

The Cosmology: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/cosmology
is also pretty good.

Nu-Mantia Intercept: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept
Is written very oddly, but it explains the towers, the things that hold up Mundus.

The Forum Archives section of the Imperial Library also contains many useful developer quotes, and olds threads about lore points, though many of the threads have lost formatting over various site upgrades and can be hard to read.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives
Thanks for that, I already had some knowledge of the wheel and the tower thanks to this helpful thread
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/615803-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/61231075
That was still helpful though.

Im currently trying to read through the Nu-mantia intercept and it's great, this site is probably going to become as addictive as TV tropes to me so thanks for the link =D

Im struggling to grasp the concept of the towers but hopefully I will wrap my head about it.
 

Spiritofpower

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So, to recap: The new DLC, which may or may not be called Dragonborn and may or may not be related to Dragonborns in some way will very likely contain:

- Dragon Mounts (whether this is a permanent thing or a one-off deal is unclear)

- Spears (one or two-handed is uncertain)

- Chitin, Bonemold, Stalhrim, and a new type of Nordic armor (which ones are Light and Heavy is unknown)

- Solstheim, with Raven Rock, Castle Karstaag, and a Telvanni tower

- Apocrypha, Hermaeus Mora's plane of Oblivion (in what capacity and how much is unknown)

- Magic on horses

I think that's everything. If I'm wrong, please correct me.
 

SajuukKhar

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Spiritofpower said:
I think that's everything. If I'm wrong, please correct me.
Well there is some other stuff, transcribed from here
https://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1417456-18-beta-update-solsthiem-dlc-hints-thread-10/
Gameplay Additions :

Spears
Dragon Riding
Mounted Magic
"Boat Riding"
Use of some spells and shouts while Dragon riding
Tree and ground ambushes

New armor types :

Chitin, Bonemold, Nordic, Stalhrim, all being both light and heavy

New places:
Places on Solstheim, namely standing stones, Castle Karstaag, Raven Rock
A Telvanni Tower
Some place called "Miraak Temple"
The repeated mention of something "Benthic" suggests some (deep) underwater area
Apocrypha

New creatures:

A "Benthic Lurker"
Some daedric creature related to HM (Hermaeus Mora or Herma-Mora?)
Scribs (and thus probably Kwamas?)
Netches
Rieklins
Boars
Dwemer Ballistae
Something with tentacles
(Since there are light chitin armors, I wouldn't be astonished if the Shalk came back)

Something involving a heart ripped off. (Something related to Briarheartss maybe? Or to Pelinal? Or something Lorkhan-esque)

The DLC title is presumed to be "Dragonborn".

As Bigbossbalrog said, the mention of a Chieftain hints at a return of the Skaals.
 

Denamic

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SajuukKhar said:
Soviet Heavy said:
Hmmm. I hope they add more recipes then. One of my favorite things about Honest Hearts in New Vegas was how useful cooking and survival became. The benefits they offered to your special or to your health regen and damage were awesome substitutes for stimpacks.
Most food items only had a very menial health increase in New vegas

stuff like
+2 Hit Points per second for 18s
+2 Hit Points per second for 10s
food really wasn't a good substitute for stimpacks

Which is about the same amount of health most food items in Skyrim give.
Except survival increases the healing, and even 2HP/s is great for healing between battles without wasting stims.
A single Sunset Sarsaparilla can heal for 5HP/s for 25 seconds, which is 125 points of total healing.
That is fantastic.
 

SajuukKhar

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Denamic said:
Except survival increases the healing, and even 2HP/s is great for healing between battles without wasting stims.
A single Sunset Sarsaparilla can heal for 5HP/s for 25 seconds, which is 125 points of total healing.
That is fantastic.
That would be true if stims were uncommon, or expensive, using stims is like using gold in Skyrim, its kinda pointless since there's so much of it.

I had 400+ stimpacks in New Vegas at one time.

Also food takes up carry weight, stims are weightless.
 

Spiritofpower

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SajuukKhar said:
That would be true if stims were uncommon, or expensive, using stims is like using gold in Skyrim, its kinda pointless since there's so much of it.
Admittedly, early on, most players will be strapped for cash. But after doing a few quests and selling some loot, yes, you'll probably have more gold than you know what to do with.

Captcha: hunted by cinemax

OH GOD OH GOD THEY FOUND ME I'VE GOTTA HIDE OH GOD
 

Matheus Moreira

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About Skyrim Redone, although it may be lore-unfriendly in some points, it isn't overpowered. The proof of that is that the game actually becomes harder if you install all the parts of it.

About the gold you get, I use a mod that makes the following: merchants only buy things with which they work; merchants doesn't have tons of cash to buy your stuff; in different regions, different goods have different prices, according to what's more common to find there (for example, dwemer weapons are much more expensive in Falkreath than in Winterhold). Those changes make money harder do get and I think they are perfectly logical and lore-friendly. I have to save money to buy an expensive house, not simulate a saving, but really save, otherwise I can't buy food to stay alive (since I use a mod that makes feeding necessary to live).

About the fast-travel issue, the things are: didn't I find any enemies on the way? if I found, why am I not injured, why haven't I got experience and why didn't I loot it? The fast travel mechanism could have an old, famous and useful element to make it more real: the random encounters. If I travel, sometimes an enemy will appear on the road and I will fight it, sometimes I'll be ambushed, sometimes, if my stealth abilities are good, I will sneak and avoid the fight. Those options should appear when you fast travel, "you were ambushed during the travel" or "you see enemies ahead, do you want to fight or try to sneak?".

The way fast travel is is like a teleport with time passage, nothing EVER happens during fast travels. If the time passed, you went from a place to a place, but if you went from a place to a place, why never ever happens? You can say "Well, if you want something to happen, travel normally", but I can reply "I want to avoid all the walking, but deal will anything that affects me on the way, as an immersion factor". You could, then, say "Fast-travel is not for immersion" and I would say "If it's not to be immersible, why did Bethesda bother with time passage in the first place? I could self-impose a time passage by myself". At the end, you will say "It's not teleportation, because time passes" and I will say "It's not travel because at least sometimes, things happen in a travel". The result is: fast-travel could be better.

About the self-imposed rules, we reached a common agreement. We agree that it may be good sometimes for the role-playing (a horse or a dragon?) and that, sometimes, it's not enough to have self-imposed rules, as stated below:

SajuukKhar said:
There is nothing contradictory about my statements.

There are some things, so overpowered, that they do need a restriction on them.

Which is why they removed spell making, and I am glad they did.
I guess the point of the discussion is not if self-imposed rules are bad or good for role-playing, but when it is good and when it's not enough. We know that some self-imposed rules are good, but some restriction is also good too.

Some guys, as SajuukKhar, think that the way Skyrim is is the perfect way in terms of self-imposed rules balance. Some guys, as myself and Zenn3k, think that Skyrim relies way to much on self-imposed rules to be actually a completely role-playing game. And, as I see it, the amount of decision you can make is not the problem by itself, the problem is the amount of consequences you have to simulate. I think we should be able to make any decision we want, but couldn't have control of most of the consequences; an aspect of the real life.
 

Smolderin

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Just thought I should put a word in here. I respect other people's opinions, but I really can't fathom how people think Skyrim doesn't have enough RPG elements. I mean...come on...really? Where else can you defend a band of roaming travelers against a giant attack, only to be interrupted by a dragon, and then go home to read a book, cook dinner and talk to your wife before going to bed? If that isn't a roleplaying experience then I don't know what is. (and I didn't even cover character progression) People can come and reply to me all they want about how Oblivion, Morrowind, or other games did so and so better, Skyrim is a game where I can make my own story and I can do it my way. It is because of this that until a game comes out and does this better, for me, Skyrim is the best RPG ever created.
 

Zenn3k

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Lil_Rimmy said:
Zenn3k said:
Except the situation above never leads to anything. Just quest complete, never to be spoken of again. If I kill all the Kings in Freeside, they are dead, the ending credits says, they are dead. Other NPCs mention that they are dead, the game world stays true to itself. Quests involving them and the NPC signing a truce, can't happen. If I kill random Redperson lady in the Inn during this quest...nobody mentions it, nobody cares, nothing changes in the plot. Thats a very stark contrast. If it doesn't matter to anybody in the game world, why should I care? BTW - You can make most everyone live a fairly good life at the end of New Vegas, but lets stick to Skyrim.
Just want to pop in to say if you kill certain people in towns and villages, things change. Like in I think Riverwood, if you kill a shop owner her brother takes over, and mentions the killing every now and then. Smithies are taken over by sons and daughters and I know a lumber mill in some place gets taken over by a friend of the guy if you kill him. Just thought I'd say that.

Oh, also, people send thugs and assassins to kill you if they see you stealing or murdering their family members/friends. Yes, even kids will send assassins.
Those are all really small things that can easily go unnoticed.

My biggest problem with Skyrim is: Say I side with the Stormcloaks, I come across an Imperial Camp. The leader of that camp refuses to die, just gets knocked out over and over again. THAT crap is stupid, its immersion breaking and completely unnecessary.
 

Jynthor

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SajuukKhar said:
Jynthor said:
Where would one apply to the College of Elder Scrolls Lore?
I know quite a bit but only on the surface level(As in how everything appears to be)

Basically, where would one start to really learn TES lore?
The single most important lore document, which is basically a summery of most of the metaphysics of the series, is Vehk's Teaching, specifically the "Tower" section, and the "More on the Psijic Endeavor" section.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/vehks-teaching

Cosmology, is also pretty good for a clear cut explanation of the universe's structure.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/cosmology

The Nu-Mantia Intercept is written very oddly, but it explains the towers, the things that hold up Mundus.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept

The Metaphysics of Morrowind breaks down some of the more...... gamey elements, like the pausing time by opening menus, and loading save games, and the construction kit, and how they fit into the lore. Its mostly in section 3, you can skip sections 1, 2, and 4 if you want, 3 is the important one.
https://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-1/
https://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-2/
https://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-3/
https://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/11/23/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-4/

The Forum Archives section of the Imperial Library also contains many useful developer quotes, and old threads about lore points, though many of the threads have lost formatting over various site upgrades and can be hard to read.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives
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Really there's a bunch of other things found in the forums archives sections, such as how Lorkhan is Akatosh, and in Kikbride's quote section he explains a bunch of stuff about countless topics.

The Imperial Library is really the hub of all Elder scrolls lore, mostly everything in the Obscure Texts sections, and the forum Archives section, can teach you things.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/obscure-texts
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives

But most of it wont be brought up, as long as you understand
-Vehk's teachings
-Cosmology
-The nu-mantia intercepts
-The Metaphysics of Morrowind
All you have to remember is Lorkhan is Akatosh and Talos is Lorkhan reborn, and you got most of the important stuff.

Also, there is also a process of mantling, a process of "walk like them until they must walk like you" its the thing that turned the champion of cyrodiil into Sheogorath. Basically by acting like Sheo, having Sheo's staff, sitting on the throne of sheo, and basically just being Sheo, the champion was able to literally turn himself into Sheo because he acted like Sheo so much no one could tell the difference and thus he became sheo.

Mantling is also what made Tiber Septim, Ysmir Wulfharth, and Zurin Arctus merge into Talos who is Lorkhan reborn, because they replaced the same events that Akatosh, Lorkhan, and MAgnus, took at the mortal realms creation.
Thanks, I guess I have some reading to do.
 

BathorysGraveland

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THis might actually be worth it for the spears and ambushes alone. Ambushing could be a really cool feature if they pull it off right. They probably won't, but hey.
 

SajuukKhar

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Zenn3k said:
Those are all really small things that can easily go unnoticed.

My biggest problem with Skyrim is: Say I side with the Stormcloaks, I come across an Imperial Camp. The leader of that camp refuses to die, just gets knocked out over and over again. THAT crap is stupid, its immersion breaking and completely unnecessary.
Actually it is entirely necessary.

At the end of the civil war, whichever leader you sided with tells you there are still camps of enemy soldiers in the wilds, these exist so Bethesda could explain in the next game how the other side "won" if you didnt actually pick them.

they gorilla warfare to victory.

that and they were supposed to be killable, they were part of a post civil war quest to kill off the enemy leaders that was removed, Bethesda just never removed their essential tags.

Politeia said:
Funnily enough, I love what Game's workshop has done with Warhammer 40K it makes the universe far more interesting, there is nothing greater then the human imagination, and letting people use their imagination to make up whatever stories they want allows for endless possible interesting stories.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree, the storyline of the guilds have gotten universally better since the days of Morrowind IMO.

Morrowind's Guild quest were mostly unconnected fetch quests with a small "plot" thrown into the last 4. Oblivion's and Skyrim actually gave the guilds plots, with Skyrim's being entirely plot focused.

While one may argue that not having rank requirements makes them "unrealistic" people have shown in Morrowind that having requirements just causes people to exploit around them, and indeed become guild master of the Mages guild without knowing any spells.

Guild requirements don't exist because there is literally no way for Bethesda to create something that people wouldn't gltich/exploit around. You can't create something that prevents non-mages from advancing in guilds that isn't able to be got around.

Why you need Bethesda to put time into trying to devise a means to stop non mages from advancing in the guild when you can just
A. Not join the guild unless you are that class
B. Chose not to advance in the quests until you rise your skills
Politeia said:
-They made you Arch-Mage because you survived Labrythian, killed a Dragon priest, got the staff of Magnus, and stopped Ancanno from destroying the world using the Eye of Magnus. You did something none of them could have done, and indeed, in doing so, you proved to them you are better then them.

-The Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim is destroyable by The Empire because without the Night Mother most of the contracts people make go unheard, I was talking about the DB through history, in Oblivion they even tell you the Count of Cheydenhall knows exactly where the sanctuary is, but fear of the DB prevents anyone from hurting them.

Their nonchalantness about being seen is because they know that no one is going to attack them out of fear, and indeed, everyone knows where the Black Door is, and knows the DB is there, and yet no one has done anything about it out of fear.

It isn't until someone, you, actually grows the balls to kill one of them do people realize "hey, maybe they aren't as badass as we thought before", and thus gain the courage to attack them.

-Aela wouldn't accept being Harbinger because she isn't the leader type, she even mentions this during the questline, and when talking to her. On top of that it was YOU who slayed the Glenmoril witches, got their heads to cure Kodlack, and actually freed Kodlak's soul.

And I don't doubt those quests you did for Aela to strike at the silver hand, after they killed Sjkor, earned you respect in her eyes,

-You are aware that after beating the main questline, you still have to do around 30+ side jobs before you become guild master of the thieves guild? You literally have to do 30 small quests worth of stealing, pickpocketing, planting items in peoples houses, and other thief related stuff, before you are made guild Master.

Also, the entire last dungeon, with the exception of Mercer himself, can be achived through sneaking, and indeed, Karliah and Brynolf even say several times in the missions "we can sneak past these guys or fight them, your call". I got through the entire last dungeon without killing a single Falmer, it was the ultimate sneaking test.

-Considering the shape of the Daedric temples in Skyrim, the Daedra don't exactly have many, or ANY at all, worshipers anymore, the Daedra are kind of in a pinch here.

Meridia allowing you to help her even if you are a vampire can be explained by "the person she wants you to stop is creating MORE undead, so she has two options
1. accept the help of one undead
2. Let some guy make armies of undead
You are the lesser of two evils at the moment, and knowing the Daedric princes, shes probably plotting to kill you later also.

-Actually you did sorta earn the title of Listener of the DB, you are the one who committed all the killings leading up to the Emperor's assassination, and you did survive the PO assault.
Politeia said:
And along the way you are accosted by no bandits, find no new sites, hunt no deer/fox/rabbit, or anything else you could reasonably expect while walking around normally. It's teleportation alright, very slow teleportation. I don't begrudge it's use, nor want it removed, as it's a convenience thing.
I never get attacked by bandits while walking on the road normally, they stay off to the wilderness, and I, and most people in general, wouldn't hunt things while walking between two cities.
 

Zenn3k

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SajuukKhar said:
Zenn3k said:
Those are all really small things that can easily go unnoticed.

My biggest problem with Skyrim is: Say I side with the Stormcloaks, I come across an Imperial Camp. The leader of that camp refuses to die, just gets knocked out over and over again. THAT crap is stupid, its immersion breaking and completely unnecessary.
Actually it is entirely necessary.

At the end of the civil war, whichever leader you sided with tells you there are still camps of enemy soldiers in the wilds, these exist so Bethesda could explain in the next game how the other side "won" if you didnt actually pick them.

they gorilla warfare to victory.

that and they were supposed to be killable, they were part of a post civil war quest to kill off the enemy leader that was removed, Bethesda just never removed their essential tags.

So you're saying the camps exist to force canon on the player in a later game (that doesn't exist yet) and making their choice in a major event in the story of the game meaningless...and Bethesda's lazy development left clear immersion breaking essential tags on the leaders of those camps even though they have no actual legit reason to be essential.

And you still think this is a good game? Incredibly lazy development, the game is filled with it.