Extra Credits: No Redeeming Value
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I have truly grown to appreciate this series. the observations are intelligent and takes games seriously. If we had more of this, games' place in our society as an interactive and thoughtful medium would no longer come into question! I sincerely hope this brand of observation and thoughtful rhetoric continues to grow. Kudos to them for a truly noteworthy and worthwhile project.
Good video. I agree that the story of God of War does get a bit silly, but hell, the games are so fun to play.
You couldn't have used wikipedia to the "three elements" of greek tragedy. Because there aren't: all Greek tragedians bought something unique, and totally different. Sophocles is WRONGLY considered the class Greek tragedian, and all your inferences about Greek tragedy stem from there. The number one element of Greek tragedy is that HERO CAN'T CONTROL HIS DESTINY! Isn't that blatantly clear in Oedipus Rex, the tragedy of Achilles, and this theme even carried on into the Roman culture, with the Aeneid perhaps being the biggest example of that.
God decide everything, and mortals are mere pawns in this playground for the cosmic forces. Do your god damn research before you start parading yourself as figures of (some) authority. You just made up your three "elements" to justify for yourselves your feelings for the God of War series. People like you make me sick---and that's my injustice.
God decide everything, and mortals are mere pawns in this playground for the cosmic forces. Do your god damn research before you start parading yourself as figures of (some) authority. You just made up your three "elements" to justify for yourselves your feelings for the God of War series. People like you make me sick---and that's my injustice.
For anyone who decides to read this far into the forums I'll say this...
About a week or so ago there was an interview with the creator of GoW and TM, David Jaffe. The interview was originally supposed to be about the upcoming Twisted Metal game, but it got a bit sidetracked near the middle of the interview and they started talking about how Jaffe would have handled the end of the GoW series.
And I have to say, right off the bat, his ideas of telling a story are REALLY good.
I'd rather not say what it was here, but you could find the video on gametrailers if your that curious on how good the story of GoW3 was originally going to be.
About a week or so ago there was an interview with the creator of GoW and TM, David Jaffe. The interview was originally supposed to be about the upcoming Twisted Metal game, but it got a bit sidetracked near the middle of the interview and they started talking about how Jaffe would have handled the end of the GoW series.
And I have to say, right off the bat, his ideas of telling a story are REALLY good.
I'd rather not say what it was here, but you could find the video on gametrailers if your that curious on how good the story of GoW3 was originally going to be.
I figure they accidentally made the statement that you can become a prisoner to your emotions.
Hence you being locked into his head at the end.
I say accidentally because it didn't look like something they planned, it just popped into someones head near the end of development I figure.
Hence you being locked into his head at the end.
I say accidentally because it didn't look like something they planned, it just popped into someones head near the end of development I figure.
I would like to point out that technically Kratos albeit inadvertently did not destroy the world per se, he saved/liberated it by killing the gods who held an iron grip on it and freeing it for mortals to rule.
Think about it, he single handedly killed off and slaughtered every single monster, demon, chimera, etc in Greece, he killed Hades who held the souls of the departed in bondage. He killed Poseidon who controlled the seas to his whims and now the oceans and seas move according to nature's laws yet again, Apollo restoring the natural night/day cycle, etc leaving alive Demeter and forgetting her greek name Venus god's who are important for their contributions and not their tyrannical control.
Oh and killing the sister's of fate making is possible for mortals to control their own destinies, seriously, there's as much of good argument here for alternative character interpretation for Kratos actually in his blindness helping Humanity be free of the god's tyranny.
Now we just need to sick him on the Babylonian and Egyptian pantheons and away we go, all set.
Oh and the Titans who would've probly wiped out Humanity since they don't like us very much.
Think about it, he single handedly killed off and slaughtered every single monster, demon, chimera, etc in Greece, he killed Hades who held the souls of the departed in bondage. He killed Poseidon who controlled the seas to his whims and now the oceans and seas move according to nature's laws yet again, Apollo restoring the natural night/day cycle, etc leaving alive Demeter and forgetting her greek name Venus god's who are important for their contributions and not their tyrannical control.
Oh and killing the sister's of fate making is possible for mortals to control their own destinies, seriously, there's as much of good argument here for alternative character interpretation for Kratos actually in his blindness helping Humanity be free of the god's tyranny.
Now we just need to sick him on the Babylonian and Egyptian pantheons and away we go, all set.
Oh and the Titans who would've probly wiped out Humanity since they don't like us very much.
I agree with this but I also feel that Kratos was meant to kill Zeus. When Pandora told Kratos about hope she was referring to the weapon inside of him. With hope he broke back into superthisisspartakratoskickass-mode and pwned Zeus. I'm surprised you guys didn't touch on the fact that he killed himself to allow hope to restore the world. It is a story of redemption and Kratos was remorseful after seeking his vengeance.Meemaimoh said:
Plus, after playing through 3 games, don't you just WANT TO kill Zeus already?!
i never played the god of war serie. (and now all of you wish me to hell) but you have gave a great example what the 'hype' around a game can do to the series. you had a lot of players who didn't see the underlying story of part 1. they only saw a guy as you described kratos in the other 2 games. a mindlles killing machine. they devolpers heard that and thought that the players liked it because of that. because of that the last 2 games were only about killing without a good reason. and this happens more often then you think. just a minor part of the gamers sees things like underlying story. and when the devolpers seargh forums for the opinions of players. the will for the great part see people saying that the action is great and that kratos is baddass. and because the it is a company that wants money, they created what the buyers want and so you get games series like the god of war serie.
That's why Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy VII and Legacy of kain are such goode stories. They actually tell meaningful stories about characters you can grow with and actually connect to.
EDIT: Responding to the post above, that is what happened to Devil May Cry as well.
EDIT: Responding to the post above, that is what happened to Devil May Cry as well.
The beauty of a standard is that anything that fits its prerequisites can indeed be judged by it.ENKC said:
As a plot-driven and cutscene-extraordinaire game, the God of War series can and should be judged by literary standards as opposed to, say, culinary ones.
The fact that it doesn't really stand very high while judged as such does not excuse it from analysis.
Then they should have gone the way of Serious Sam (which I like very much), where the seriousness applies strictly to the title, instead of going out of its way to tell a story with so many glaring holes in character development.ENKC said:
Ditto. Yours is my favorite series, you guys.Meemaimoh said:
Keep at it!
A culinary analysis of apples differs from a culinary analysis of oranges. One may as well analyse the fashion of the Cleveland Cavaliers in the same breath as the catwalks of Paris, since under the beauty of standards they both wear designer clothing.Ericb said:
I think you're missing the point in both GOW II & III.
GOW II has all 3 Greek tragedy elements: the fall of Kratos (taken to a new level, a God this time, not a "mere" mortal Hero), caused by his misdeeds as the new god of war, and his own guilt defeating him when he accidentally kills Athena in the end.
Passing the hate focus from Ares to Zeus may seem childish, but it's common in human behavior to resent authority and responsibility for one's actions.
GOW III may forget all about this formula, but the "hope" and "forgiveness" elements aren't exposed at kindergarten level.
GOW III says that gods (and titans) know their worth and abilities, and that hope and having the courage to place yourself next to (or above) a god is the first step towards actual "godhood".
Killing Hercules (the older brother) and Zeus (the father) takes the narrative in a new direction. It talks about fighting for what you believe, even if your family & friends discourages you, and it's something many teenagers or even young adults relate to.
Kratos seemingly murders them all for the wrong reasons, but the ending scene may change that perception: all the Gods desperately want to suppress mankind's hope of ever being more than "mere mortals", but Kratos' mindless killing spree unknowingly prevents that, and his final act in the game may be regarded as his redeeming quality: sparing Athena despite her attitude towards restoring hope to humanity, and attempting to kill himself instead.
I think it's wrong to dismiss GOW II & III's narrative just because it follows slightly different directions. They might be considered "lower art" than the first one, but they also treat the same subject from a more contemporary point of view, and most importantly, they sift it all through a different moral filter, one better suited to the 21'st century's moral compass.
GOW II has all 3 Greek tragedy elements: the fall of Kratos (taken to a new level, a God this time, not a "mere" mortal Hero), caused by his misdeeds as the new god of war, and his own guilt defeating him when he accidentally kills Athena in the end.
Passing the hate focus from Ares to Zeus may seem childish, but it's common in human behavior to resent authority and responsibility for one's actions.
GOW III may forget all about this formula, but the "hope" and "forgiveness" elements aren't exposed at kindergarten level.
GOW III says that gods (and titans) know their worth and abilities, and that hope and having the courage to place yourself next to (or above) a god is the first step towards actual "godhood".
Killing Hercules (the older brother) and Zeus (the father) takes the narrative in a new direction. It talks about fighting for what you believe, even if your family & friends discourages you, and it's something many teenagers or even young adults relate to.
Kratos seemingly murders them all for the wrong reasons, but the ending scene may change that perception: all the Gods desperately want to suppress mankind's hope of ever being more than "mere mortals", but Kratos' mindless killing spree unknowingly prevents that, and his final act in the game may be regarded as his redeeming quality: sparing Athena despite her attitude towards restoring hope to humanity, and attempting to kill himself instead.
I think it's wrong to dismiss GOW II & III's narrative just because it follows slightly different directions. They might be considered "lower art" than the first one, but they also treat the same subject from a more contemporary point of view, and most importantly, they sift it all through a different moral filter, one better suited to the 21'st century's moral compass.
Actually, it is. When I'm writing my book, I hate it when I need to look for the small little details people are inevitably going to cry about. Can't people just enjoy something for what it is anymore? You don't need to overanalyze EVERYTHING you see in life.Swifteye said: