Extra Credits Takes a Stab at the Mass Effect 3 issues

[KeyMaster45]

*clears throat* I have read their take on ME3's ending and I have prepared this reasonable and well thought out response.


I'm just kidding, I'm not even a ME fan so I haven't played any of the games in the trilogy. I did skim it though and from what I've read about the ending I have to say I agree with them on some points and disagree on others. From an outside perspective I think it's kind of a crappy ending to a trilogy. (Like Vader throwing Luke down the bottomless pit instead of the emperor crappy) To be honest it sounds like the lead into a fourth game where they retroactively figure out how to stop the reapers without fucking the galaxy and they have to go back...

[HEADING=2]BACK TO THE FUTURE!!![/HEADING]​

(because you know ME takes place in the future so technically any backwards time travel is going back to the future and...I'm going to shut up now...)

 

[Cobelo]

snip

You know, i respect your opinion, man, but there's no need to act belligerent toward everyone who doesn't agree with you.

OT: I like the EC guys, but there's a lot of stuff i don't agree with here. If all the internet rumors flying around are true (Wouldn't be surprised at this point) then it wasn't really an artistic choice, it was mostly just pushed out the door. However, the last full paragraph describes my thoughts:

If the "failure" of Mass Effect 3's final minutes has done anything, it has proven exactly how successful the rest of the trilogy was. That the ending's failure to provide closure made so many people so angry showcases just how invested we all are in this universe and these characters we've befriended (more than even Bioware expected, I imagine). That the ending both supports and conflicts with some of the game's themes draws attention to how thoroughly those themes were woven into the previous games. And picking apart the ending's flaws has ultimately led me to marvel at just how successful Mass Effect has been as a whole.

 

[SageRuffin]

I don't think any of us (who weren't born with fetal alcohol syndrome) really believe that Bioware made that ending just to say, "Haha, take that, fuckwads!" If you have a grievance, by all means say so. But assuming that Bioware release a DLC to alter the ending, would it be so bad if they simply tied up the loose ends, provided closure and otherwise stuck to their guns?

You know what I just thought of? BioWare said in the beginning that ME was supposed to be a trilogy of games, but I think after the first game they weren't entirely sure what to make each game about. Ergo, when everything comes to pass in ME3, they created these nigh invincible warbots with no forethought as to how you actually kill one (Sovereign's defeat back ion the first game still makes no sense to me), hence the central theme of the entire trilogy radically shifting gears in the last 20 or minutes of the game.

Really, the only thing about ME3 that makes me angry is the heaping pile of feces BioWare and EA like to call "Galaxy at War". Having actually played - and subsequently written off - the multiplayer mode, directly tying it to the campaign was a very bad decision in my eyes.

 

[Seanfall]

i agree in that the ending should be changed in a way that doesn't change how bioware ended it. even if you don't want to call it an art form, it would be like if you wrote a story and someone came by, called it shit, then rewrote it. how would you feel?

and with the people talking about fallout 3, i found the ending to be a great ending. i was sad that i died, i hated it that it ended, but hey, i can go back and play the game differently this time. it was a well written ending, and was like a tragedy. i did like that i could keep playing after the new ending, but still, i feel that prevents it's ability to have any closure and have any effect on me. the ending was sad, i felt sad after it was done. but the game never shows themes for it being a happy game. you start out and your mom dies. later, your dad dies, not looking up too much for you. and you don't have to die, you can send in the paladin to do it instead of you, but it still ends. the game had an ending and brought it closure for what i did. it made me feel, that's why i liked it.

Fan's aren't re-writing it. Bioware would be the ones re-doing it. But yeah I agree with the ending of fallout 3, abrupt but... appropriate. I liked continuing the story and seeing first hand how my actions affected the wasteland. Plus a lot of people kinda meta-fictioned that the Wanderer from Vault 101 was their Courier in New Vegas. Cool idea actually.

 

[Seanfall]

EA likely doesn't give a shit about artistic integrity, and I highly doubt that Mass Effect 3 is the game that it is because EA respected Bioware's artistic vision. I'm still convinced that multiplayer was put in just so they could charge for an online pass.

You know what? You're probably right about that. But doesn't that make Bioware something of an underdog?

I don't think any of us (who weren't born with fetal alcohol syndrome) really believe that Bioware made that ending just to say, "Haha, take that, fuckwads!" If you have a grievance, by all means say so. But assuming that Bioware release a DLC to alter the ending, would it be so bad if they simply tied up the loose ends, provided closure and otherwise stuck to their guns?

Bioware an underdog? no...it makes them sellouts. And yes it would be bad as the ending still makes no sense. All three ending screens look alike. No real differences other then a few pose changes for the humans and a different color. It is not artistic it is lazy writing. The narrative falls apart at this point and shits on everything else up to it.

 

[MPerce]

Ah, it's Neon Genesis Evangelion all over again. An incredible series with an ending that made its insanely devoted fanbase shit itself in frustration.

Uh, I agree with Dan. I really wish the ending provided more closure, but I like what it tried to do. If it had gone the predictable route, I think I actually would've been pretty disappointed. Risk is exciting, even if you fall on your face. And look at the fascinating conversation it created in the gaming community.

And like Dan said, I hope they don't try to completely alter the ending. One, because of the whole "caving into the pressure and changing what you were trying to say blah blah art." I'm in a creative line of work, too, so I understand how crappy it is when someone says your art should be changed because they didn't like it. Providing closure and making the events actually make sense is cool, but keep the premise of it all the same.

Also, Neon Genesis tried to change its ending dramatically. It only made things even more batshit crazy. I don't want that to happen to Mass Effect.

 

[Thoric485]

Spoiler: spoiler'd for those with slow browsers

Fixed that video link. Thanks for sharing, it was a good watch.

 

[Knight Templar]

Spoiler: spoiler'd for those with slow browsers

Fixed that video link. Thanks for sharing, it was a good watch.

Thank you, I often forget to check over my edits. I will go correct that.

 

[Sakash]

You know what? You're probably right about that. But doesn't that make Bioware something of an underdog?

I don't think any of us (who weren't born with fetal alcohol syndrome) really believe that Bioware made that ending just to say, "Haha, take that, fuckwads!" If you have a grievance, by all means say so. But assuming that Bioware release a DLC to alter the ending, would it be so bad if they simply tied up the loose ends, provided closure and otherwise stuck to their guns?

That's all I want out of a DLC. I think it'd be cool if they added more content after the end, and personally I like the indoctrination theory and would like to see Bioware latch onto that.

But... if the content only cleared up some loose ends and add closure, I'd be more than OK with that.

That is all EVERYONE wanted. Its not the ending. Its the lack of one that pissed me off. All i want is closure. Thats it.

Also on the topic of art, yes i agree the developer should have a right to keep the ending if thats what they want. But you can feel that it was rushed and not thought out. It just feel like, if Da Vinci was to paint the Mona Lisa, but when it came to doing the face he just drew a smiley face with a sharpie.

 

[Eddie the head]

Spoiler: spoiler'd for those with slow browsers

Fixed that video link. Thanks for sharing, it was a good watch.

I was kind of on the fence about this whole thing I thought the ending was bad but I didn't think it should be changed, but after reading a few articles on both sides and watching that video and a few others I going to say now I am on the "yeah you should probably change it side." What I am saying is I was pretty neutral but now I am more siding with the "crybabies." I don't know they just seem to have a better argument then the other side. I am still not motivated to do anything about it though but for what it's worth yeah they have a better point, form my point of view.

 

[spectrenihlus]

Spoiler: spoiler'd for those with slow browsers

Fixed that video link. Thanks for sharing, it was a good watch.

I was kind of on the fence about this whole thing I thought the ending was bad but I didn't think it should be changed, but after reading a few articles on both sides and watching that video and a few others I going to say now I am on the "yeah you should probably change it side." What I am saying is I was pretty neutral but now I am more siding with the "crybabies." I don't know they just seem to have a better argument then the other side. I am still not motivated to do anything about it though but for what it's worth yeah they have a better point, form my point of view.

Come join us, we have cupcakes.

 

[Eddie the head]

Come join us, we have cupcakes.

Well.. You do I guess. A B or C cupcakes.

 

[anthony87]

You have 2 minutes to explain why asking for a different ending was disrespectful..

Because a majority of people who are supposedly just "asking", aren't merely asking.

Where's this "majority" you speak of? Do you speak for the majority?

 

[Sutter Cane]

In other words, IF BioWare never intended this, and IF they feel that they themselves don't like the ending, would it artistically improper for them to produce an 'ending supplement'? (Imagine, for this, that fan reaction doesn't enter in to the question - I agree, bowing to popular outrage just because it is popular outrage is wrong, but assuming that wasn't a factor.)

in that case I would have no problem at all with them changing the ending.

However if that isn't the case, however, i think the fans really wouldn't have the right to demand a new ending just because they were disappointed. It's less the end result of re-take mass effect that I object to, but rather the attitude of seemingly many of the people that support it.

Also my first post here was less against the re-take me3 movement and more intended to be against people who find it objectionable that someone would try to have some respect as gaming as an artistic medium.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Also my first post here was less against the re-take me3 movement and more intended to be against people who find it objectionable that someone would try to have some respect as gaming as an artistic medium.

This is a frustrating attitude though, this presumption that if you want the ending changed, you're disrespecting art or disrespecting games, and visa versa. From Kahuna Burger's favorite article on the internet:

The ?The Ending Must Never Be Changed? faction seem to take it as axiomatic that Stories are pure, singular entities created by a single Author (even when that Author is a massive team of writers working for a games company, I suppose this is another good example of what we mean when we say a company constitutes a ?corporate person?) and that the sole function of a Story is to convey the Vision of the Author to the Audience. This is, of course, bollocks. Not only is the discourse of CRPG design rehashing ideas that tabletop RPGs were sorting out a decade ago, it's getting stuck on concepts that conventional literary theory got past halfway through the last century.

Indeed ironically the argument so many people are using in favour of the Ending being the Immutable Word of the Author-God is exactly the argument that Roger Ebert used to explain why video games would never be art ? a Story, they say, is a specific sequence of events and it ends how it ends, and to change it would lessen the Author's Vision and compromise his Artistic Integrity. This attitude is ? of course ? completely incompatible with an interactive medium.

http://www.ferretbrain.com/articles/article-848

People On The Internet seem genuinely offended by the idea that Bioware might change the ending (the probably won't, and I really don't care if they do). The consensus, even amongst people who agree the ending sucked goat dick, seems to be that it is better to have a stupid ending that stays ?true to Bioware's vision? than a good ending that may not. This is an attitude which I cannot even begin to fathom. I don't mind people liking the ending and defending it on its merits, but I can't wrap my head around people who hated the ending believing it should be protected because it's ?Bioware's story.? About two minutes ago I was reading a comment on kotaku from somebody who claimed that they ?didn't like the ending? but thought it shouldn't be changed because it had ?depth and cognitive impact.? I don't even know how to parse that idea ? how can you at once believe something has ?depth and cognitive impact? and also dislike it? Isn't that like hating a book for being too well written?

This weird position people are taking...the position that supports Authorial Divinity, the position that says art can never be changed or else we're setting a horrifying precedent...not only is it woefully ignorant of history, it's just fundamentally broken logically. It's not "being respectful of art". It's just a poorly supported argument.

 

[Gamergeek25]

quote]

snip.

SNIPquote]

Listen if games aren't conbsidered art we don't get rights to free speech which means groups like the PTC will turn video games into EC rated games. You might not realize it, but gamers and devs are fighting to retain the rights to have the first admenment protection. They want labels saying playing games leads to violent behavior, next it will be remove all nudity, and heavy violence (think warhammer 40k execution moves) from games until games are dumbed down to a point where it is no longer fun. Also look up the controversy of D&D if that is any indicator then if we lose art rights we lose a lot.

Let's go back a little further Harry Potter epic series? yes! look at how many religious groups tried to take it down for it's pagenism and witchcraft. If books werent an artform would it have changed? who knows?.

Let's go back further in time to the hays code if we still had it then our movies today would be a lot differant. Reason why I said this is look how much censoring occured, a similiar fate will occur to games if it loses it's protection.

The hays code effect: source: wikipedia

Spoiler

That those things which are included in the following list shall not appear in pictures produced by the members of this Association, irrespective of the manner in which they are treated:
1.Pointed profanity-by either title or lip-this includes the words "God," "Lord," "Jesus," "Christ" (unless they be used reverently in connection with proper religious ceremonies), "hell," " damn," "Gawd," and every other profane and vulgar expression however it may be spelled;
2.Any licentious or suggestive nudity-in fact or in silhouette; and any lecherous or licentious notice thereof by other characters in the picture;
3.The illegal traffic in drugs;
4.Any inference of sex perversion;
5.White slavery;
6.Miscegenation (sex relationships between the white and black races);
7.Sex hygiene and venereal diseases;
8.Scenes of actual childbirth-in fact or in silhouette;
9.Children's sex organs;
10.Ridicule of the clergy;
11.Willful offense to any nation, race or creed;

And be it further resolved, That special care be exercised in the manner in which the following subjects are treated, to the end that vulgarity and suggestiveness may be eliminated and that good taste may be emphasized:
1.The use of the flag;
2.International relations (avoiding picturizing in an unfavorable light another country's religion, history, institutions, prominent people, and citizenry);
3.Arson;
4.The use of firearms;
5.Theft, robbery, safe-cracking, and dynamiting of trains, mines, buildings, etc. (having in mind the effect which a too-detailed description of these may have upon the moron);
6.Brutality and possible gruesomeness;
7.Technique of committing murder by whatever method;
8.Methods of smuggling;
9.Third-degree methods;
10.Actual hangings or electrocutions as legal punishment for crime;
11.Sympathy for criminals;
12.Attitude toward public characters and institutions;
13.Sedition;
14.Apparent cruelty to children and animals;
15.Branding of people or animals;
16.The sale of women, or of a woman selling her virtue;
17.Rape or attempted rape;
18.First-night scenes;
19.Man and woman in bed together;
20.Deliberate seduction of girls;
21.The institution of marriage;
22.Surgical operations;
23.The use of drugs;
24.Titles or scenes having to do with law enforcement or law-enforcing officers;
25.Excessive or lustful kissing, particularly when one character or the other is a "heavy

 

[MailOrderClone]

What the game needs isn't a new ending. What it needs is an epilogue.

 

[Phaerim]

Once again. I didn't mind the exact ending. I minded the fact that your choices throughout all the games had little meaning in deciding it, and I wanted to know what happened to the galactic community ONCE YOU BLEW UP THE MAIN PILLARS OF SOCIETY: The Mass Relays.

If BioWare can pull a DLC off, that explains JUST A BIT what the fudge the ending was about.

The problem with ME3 ending is not artistic integrity - it was a freaking Gynax Ending (See original episodes of Neon Genesis Evangelion for reference!).

 

[longboardfan]

Is anyone going to acknowledge that maybe the idea of consumers holding a studio responsible for their actions might be a good thing? This will lead to developers being more inclined to accept real fan-feedback because it proves that we are still a powerful force to be reckoned with, and they'll be less likely to cut corners in places where it matters.

I'm very disappointed in EC for falling into that tired 'artistic integrity' bulls**t. It doesn't apply to a commercial product, and it does not justify a failure to meet the promises made before release, and Bioware will not set a 'dangerous precedent' by fixing their crass mistake, end of story.

Thank you for explaining this point of view. Commercial products don't get to hide behind "its just art, leave me alone."

 

[MiloP]

Extra Credits win the internet again, The Escapist were crazy to let them go.

So...can we all agree that they were right and stop arguing about it now? We're all gonna have forgotten this in a few months regardless of what BioWare do, and I would love to make the forgetting process happen sooner rather than later.