Extra Credits Takes a Stab at the Mass Effect 3 issues
- Thread starter Jesse Billingsley
- Start date
haha, oh wow. Oh EC, you suck. Hey artistic hacks, guess what. This is a game, a product one buys and spends money on. Even if it were art, the incomplete nature of the game's ending makes it an incomplete product (art or otherwise). Its not my job to finish "writing" the story, when I paid for a complete product. There's a difference between a cliffhanger and an incomplete story. A cliffhanger episode is part of a complete story, and leaves off with the expectation that there will be a part 2 next time. An incomplete story simply fails to resolve the primary conflicts. Stop sucking on Kubrick's wang and get over yourself. 2001 was not a good movie, stop trying to force that on us. 2010 had a story and was a better movie for it. Notice how the rest of the games have a story, and the ending completely ignores it. I could have been about anything, but instead we got an ending that wasn't about anything at all. Its a sudden screeching halt to what had been a story.
Its not my job as the viewer/reader to finish the job. This isn't TV or an art gallery. This isn't furniture, there's no "some assembly required" sign on the game case. This is something I bought, and expected to be complete upon purchase.
This game was a "choose your own adventure book" that only has one ending page.
Its not my job as the viewer/reader to finish the job. This isn't TV or an art gallery. This isn't furniture, there's no "some assembly required" sign on the game case. This is something I bought, and expected to be complete upon purchase.
This game was a "choose your own adventure book" that only has one ending page.
Alright, I think I should weigh in on the situation.
To the people who want to change the ending: Don't you think that, if you liked the series to this point, one 10 minute scene that you don't like is fine? Sure, it's the end, but isn't it more about the road you take than the destination? I remember Virmire, loyalty missions, and all those great scenes throughout the series WAY more than I remember the ending of each game. Nothing can be perfect, and, rather than asking for this game's ending to change, why not suggest that BioWare not make this type of ending in the future?
To the people who hate the people who want the ending changed: Don't you think that they, as consumers, have the right to criticize? While it could be done in better ways, isn't it better to ask to improve flaws than to say something is perfect? I personally believe that's the only way to reach perfection. While you may not agree, I still think you should try to see from everyone's perspective.
To the people who hate team B: Don't you think that the way you tell them off is a bit wrong? Shouldn't you instead express your own ideas, rather than try to call them "pretentious?" They believe in "art" in a different way than you, and "art" is something with no true meaning. Some view it one way, others another. "Art" is entirely based on opinion, and, while I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I AM saying you should express it differently.
To the people who want to change the ending: Don't you think that, if you liked the series to this point, one 10 minute scene that you don't like is fine? Sure, it's the end, but isn't it more about the road you take than the destination? I remember Virmire, loyalty missions, and all those great scenes throughout the series WAY more than I remember the ending of each game. Nothing can be perfect, and, rather than asking for this game's ending to change, why not suggest that BioWare not make this type of ending in the future?
To the people who hate the people who want the ending changed: Don't you think that they, as consumers, have the right to criticize? While it could be done in better ways, isn't it better to ask to improve flaws than to say something is perfect? I personally believe that's the only way to reach perfection. While you may not agree, I still think you should try to see from everyone's perspective.
To the people who hate team B: Don't you think that the way you tell them off is a bit wrong? Shouldn't you instead express your own ideas, rather than try to call them "pretentious?" They believe in "art" in a different way than you, and "art" is something with no true meaning. Some view it one way, others another. "Art" is entirely based on opinion, and, while I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I AM saying you should express it differently.
Holy shit there's a lot of anger and bitterness in this thread. It's perilously close to name calling, that's how immature some of this is.
Anyway, interesting stance on it. I didn't like the ending, not one jot. I don't have the motivation to power through Insanity difficulty because I know that it's waiting for me.
However, I'm not sure if I want it changed. Yes, it seems rushed (and probably was), it answered nothing and made more questions, and didn't make my choices seem to matter, but I'm not sure changing it completely would be the answer.
The indoctrination theory seems the most plausible way of sorting this out, as they can simply declare the Star Child to be fluff and give people a more concrete ending. However, if it is true, good luck to Bioware in not making themselves look like greedy bastards who planned to sell the ending from the start (or EA, depending on who your personally blame.)
Anyway, interesting stance on it. I didn't like the ending, not one jot. I don't have the motivation to power through Insanity difficulty because I know that it's waiting for me.
However, I'm not sure if I want it changed. Yes, it seems rushed (and probably was), it answered nothing and made more questions, and didn't make my choices seem to matter, but I'm not sure changing it completely would be the answer.
The indoctrination theory seems the most plausible way of sorting this out, as they can simply declare the Star Child to be fluff and give people a more concrete ending. However, if it is true, good luck to Bioware in not making themselves look like greedy bastards who planned to sell the ending from the start (or EA, depending on who your personally blame.)
...unless of course they mention that it included gay sex with you, in which case it goes from utterly meaningless to freakin' weird... (I actually had a slightly more psychologically friend do exactly that, once.)BloatedGuppy said:
But, yeah, well said.
I seriously cannot, I think I know why but my literary skills are lacking to the point of butchering any attempt to textually convey my inner thoughts so and thus I will not even try as I run the risk of having half a dozen replies scolding or praising my inaccurate statement. Neither of which are remotely desired by me.Fawxy said:
No but seriously, why's there so much butthurt in this thread?
Another question: how does Mass Effect 3 being "art" absolve it from criticism? Anyone care to explain this?
EDIT: One thing I can add is that we are by nature designed to argue, even when proven wrong and even when we actually self acknowledge it we will not cave to keep face. In the end just back and forth bickering.
I haven't even played any of the Mass Effect games and I already knew the stance Dan was going to take based on how he always reacts to gamer rage. Does that make any sense?
Eh, I can't say I agree with their take on "artistic integrity" in this case as, from a narrative perspective the ending's a veritable trainwreck and as I see it an unwillingness to either point out or fix flaws in one's craft should be anathema to an artist. That said, I can respect EC's position as well argued and researched.
I'm tired of talking about ME3, but the worst part of what they said was "the first two games didn't have different endings so this one doesn't need them." The problem with that(besides that BioWare SAID IT WOULD) is that the first two games didn't end so much as they had a stopping point. The story is a TRILOGY. It wasn't really an ending until ME3. The first 2 games had to set up the next one, they COULDN'T end drastically differently! No such restrictions on ME3.
I don't understand the concept of people having to accept it just because it's art when they are making people pay a price for it. At that point it becomes a buisness and buisness is all about supply and demand. No matter what a beutiful peice of art someone thinks it is, it needs to appease it's audiance or they're not going to have a profit.
I understand if people want to call it art, but there's also a buisness side to it and you can't make a piece of shit, call it art, and expect people to buy it... no matter how many journalists and reviewers decide to look down upon you.
Not-for-profit games are what I would call art; designed not for profit but to convey and idea. When you put a price on it, it becomes a buisness and must adhere to the rules of one. Bioware is a buisness and should act like one.
I understand if people want to call it art, but there's also a buisness side to it and you can't make a piece of shit, call it art, and expect people to buy it... no matter how many journalists and reviewers decide to look down upon you.
Not-for-profit games are what I would call art; designed not for profit but to convey and idea. When you put a price on it, it becomes a buisness and must adhere to the rules of one. Bioware is a buisness and should act like one.
I'm surprised he didn't support the idea of a kick-starter page to get a new ending made. Then once they had enough money, and keep the extra.
Blah I find this argument completely noxious to actual intelligent discussion. "You have to care about games being considered art because otherwise games would never improve." It's the exactly same narrative extra credits always uses on their numerous attempts to impress on people that "games being art is super important."Limecake said:
First off, not only are the terms nebulous buzzwords, nobody can even prove anyone who worked on a game actually had a care for games being art/ artistic integrity/ artistic direction. How can we attribute any let alone all progress to "people caring about art" when this invisible phantasm notion can't even be shown to be relevant to whatever game you're discussing.
And more importantly this "our games are art" shit only comes indies and the numerous "story-driven" pseudo cinematic video game hybrids that are littering the high budget game industry. The sentiment is absent in developers of Multi-player FPS, RTS, TBS, Simulation, racing, sports, gun shooting, fighter, STG, rythym, MUD, MMOs, rougelikes and numerous other genres. It's all for the best considering the games that are considered the "pinnacle of art" are mostly deprived of complex mechanical design or good multi-player.
As a gamer myself I have to say that video games right now don't deserve that respecSutter Cane said:
Thank you. No really, thank you for seeing this for what it is. This isn't some poor up and coming movie director living next door, or the quintessential starving artist you see on the street corner. Why can people not see this. Video games in the current climate are on a whole different plane than movies, paintings, etc. It's an environment predominantly built upon making as much money for as little effort and in as little time as possible... I don't understand how anyone can miss this. It surprises me that so many of these "artistic integrity" advocates are willing to stand up for the slimy likes of EA.Thoric485 said:
News flash for you guys, EA and by extension Bioware (I really feel bad for what's happened to them) don't give a syphilitic rat's ass about art. Neither I would assume does Jessica Slutbot or Freddie D-bag jr. Oh, but they will take that money you have in your pocket there...
oh....you wanted what you actually thought you paid for? I see you have some more money in your pocket there....we'll take that for the DLC.
They also offered to refund anyone who gave it to them, outlined a specific plan for it related to their purview and, most importantly, didn't tell people to give over the requested amount in the first fucking place. So yeah, full story.SaneAmongInsane said:
hahaha, oh wow congrats for ignoring the entire rest of my post. Oh noes! I dare to mock the famous Stanley Kubrick. How dare I! I'm not helping you, I'm helping ME! I want to help me by venting online. I'm being anti-intellectual? How full of crap you are. You're implying that the artistic hacks claiming that the ending is perfect, that we're "just too stupid" to understand the brilliance, are some how better then the rest of us. Oh really, well here's a clue. I paid money for a finished product. I didn't get one.DrVornoff said: