Final Fantasy 16

[meiam]

I feel like VII falls kind of in 2nd or 3rd place in terms of FF games overall. I might be wrong based on the response to the 7 Remake though. But I feel like older gamers like 6 better, and the slightly younger gamers favor 10, because 6 and 10 seem to pop up more as the "best" FF games in the series more often.

Really depend on the poll and where/when its conducted. Since 7 remake has come out, 7 is usually at the top of the poll with 14 not far behind (or above it sometime). Pre 7R, 10 was usually at the top, but usually closely followed by 7. 6 wasn't very popular in the west when it came out, so you need to look at japan poll to have it higher.

Bottom one depend a lot on what is included (X-2 is usually the bottom one if you widen the selection enough), strictly main line 2 and 13 are usually at the bottom.

 

[Gyrobot]

Those are what keeps me going, honestly. I find the british accents and the constant swearing and pine forests and the medieval villages a bit tedious, but then I got to the Ifrit fight and I was almost elated that despite the games devotion to a type of fantasy fiction I don't like very much is still a JRPG at heart. You know, by every standard of conventionally "good" writing a scene like that, where the protagonist comes to terms with his own guilt, would be played as a quiet, introspective moment.

That FF XVI turns it into a three phase bossfight where you fight a giant monster, then yourself and then yourself in Devil Trigger mode in the middle of a burning crater shows me that despite the gritty tone and the attempts to portray plotlpoints like slavery and war with some degree of gravity, it's still as unconcerned with restraint and subtlety as ever. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

It's about finding the happy spot for finding what western audiences want and what makes a JRPG. Unlike what Imagine tried before running back with his tail tucked between his legs making creepy pandering Otaku games.

 

[BrawlMan]

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[Dreiko]

Man I can't believe I guessed the fenrir thing! XD They did it a bit different this time but still, I have FF sixth sense.

I didnt get as far into the game as i had hoped. Because after the epic eikon battles i found myself needing a break. And im not sure that is a bad thing. The highs and crazy moments are fucking wild and awesome. But each one left me needing to go do something else for a while.

This is the point of the sidequests! It gives you some time to breathe. And yeah that's a good thing. I'm like maybe 28 hours in and I slowed down a bit. Just got Titan and MAN is he fun. I have a new favorite move now. Clive is literally Jojo now.

 

[CriticalGaming]

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Sterling started the video with a good point and it strikes me as one of the reasons I'm unsettled by FF16. The misery is constant.

FF has never shied away from a dark world of misery, hell look at FFX where at any moment the demon whale can show up and obliterate your whole town and there is nothing you can do about it. A world where even when the good guys "win", they only put Sin into a slumber for a while until it comes back a few years later. It's a never ending cycle of doom. However that didn't stop the game from having light hearted moments and having fun with the people and itself. Blitzball, Chocobo running, there are things throughout the game that keep the mood from being depressing.

FF16 doesn't do that, it's miserable always and constantly in the world. The lightest stuff is the demo with young Clive and his brother which is my favorite stuff in the game to be honest. Afterwards everyone is just miserable all the time. What FF16 really needs was a thin line of humor to run through it, or a better supporting cast because even the characters are miserable in the game, save for Cid who is the best character in the game bar none. The real problem with everyone being dour all the time is that you can't get invested in the plight of the people because you never see anyone outside of their saddest moments. You have nothing to look forward to because you've never see anyone at a high point.

So I get Steph's point in that regard, but as typical of Steph to do now she's gotta fuck up her one good point with a bunch of garbage points. And don't forget the gentle reminders that she's trans and everyone hates her now. Always gotta have the salt with each video. I wonder why Blair White's videos never have that problem.

The real problem she has is that Steph's complaints about the misery and how everyone treats the slaves like shit really only applies to a couple hour stretch of the game. At least in regards to the way NPC's treat Clive and thus make the side quests miserable to do. I don't even think there are that many side quests in this portion of the game to be honest. Maybe 15 or so, and not all of them come from people shitting on Clive and being a bearer. It's world building and it's mostly fine.

The broader scope I think is the overall weight of misery on the whole game with very little brevity. Which makes the desire to save a world that sucks harder to convey to the player, and also just drains people man. You have to show bright spots, fun moments, jokes even, in order to show the player what could be and thus what's worth fighting for.

God this is such a difficult game for me, because I do like it, but at the same time I don't. It's GOTY but also maybe the most disappointing game i've played this year. At least I expect Starfield to suck, so that game can only surprise me in good ways.

 

[CriticalGaming]

This is the point of the sidequests! It gives you some time to breathe.

The problem with side quests is they aren't deep enough or long enough and you only ever seem to get access to one or two at a time. So they feel more like speed bumps than a chance to relax and take a breath moments.

 

[CriticalGaming]

 

[BrawlMan]

So I get Steph's point in that regard, but as typical of Steph to do now she's gotta fuck up her one good point with a bunch of garbage points. And don't forget the gentle reminders that she's trans and everyone hates her now. Always gotta have the salt with each video. I wonder why Blair White's videos never have that problem.

As far as stuff being trans goes, she has the right to complain. She goes through shit neither of us have to go through. Especially you. Don't like it, move the hell on and talk about something else or ignore it. And that's all I'll say on that matter. I'll hear nothing else on that topic.

The real problem she has is that Steph's complaints about the misery and how everyone treats the slaves like shit really only applies to a couple hour stretch of the game. At least in regards to the way NPC's treat Clive and thus make the side quests miserable to do. I don't even think there are that many side quests in this portion of the game to be honest. Maybe 15 or so, and not all of them come from people shitting on Clive and being a bearer. It's world building and it's mostly fine.

The broader scope I think is the overall weight of misery on the whole game with very little brevity. Which makes the desire to save a world that sucks harder to convey to the player, and also just drains people man. You have to show bright spots, fun moments, jokes even, in order to show the player what could be and thus what's worth fighting for.

Which is more or less proving Stephanie's point. I'll still get this game at some point, but not at $70. When it drops to $40, we'll talk.

God this is such a difficult game for me, because I do like it, but at the same time I don't. It's GOTY but also maybe the most disappointing game i've played this year. At least I expect Starfield to suck, so that game can only surprise me in good ways.

There's always other options. The year is not over yet. It has just begun! (Echo)

I take it it's nothing but bad news in that video based on the title? Because there it is, if that's the case.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I take it it's nothing but bad news in that video based on the title? Because there it is, if that's the case.

No it's actually a kinda wholesome message.

 

[immortalfrieza]

You have to show bright spots, fun moments, jokes even, in order to show the player what could be and thus what's worth fighting for.

So basically what the Tales series games do. There's seriousness and darkness in the games, but it's easily outnumbered by the lighthearted stuff which makes the serious stuff all the more effective.

 

[Gyrobot]

I vehemently disagree. Not every work needs levity to keep you going. And honestly this is what turned me off from Yakuza was because people use said levity to lower the quality of discussion of the game.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

save for Cid who is the best character in the game bar none

Counterpoint: Turgel
Pretty much agree with the rest of your post, especially that last paragraph.
I assume you're determined to do all the side quests despite your criticisms and I think you'll please with some of the late game ones in terms. It doesn't fix or solve the complaints- because they are accurate- but it's a bit better.

When some of us were saying the story is "good" earlier really what I meant is in a pure quality sense- the plot advances make sense, the character motivations and decisions make sense in context, and it fits in the world well. But it's not a good story like artistically because the delivery largely stinks and the characters are so boring and the dialogue scenes for side quests I can't stress enough are so so so rote like I can't believe they took Horizon Zero Dawn and made it worse.

 

[BrawlMan]

But it's not a good story like artistically because the delivery largely stinks and the characters are so boring and the dialogue scenes for side quests I can't stress enough are so so so rote like I can't believe they took Horizon Zero Dawn and made it worse.

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Don't worry, the response is in jest.

 

[CriticalGaming]

So basically what the Tales series games do. There's seriousness and darkness in the games, but it's easily outnumbered by the lighthearted stuff which makes the serious stuff all the more effective.

Yeah but it's also what the FF series has been doing since day 1. Doesn't matter which game you are playing there are always moments of either goofyness or a bit a lighthearted fun to make you more immersed in the world, and to have reasons to want to save it. It gives you the chance to like the people in the world and that's really important. I'm hard pressed to really like anyone in 16. But what's crazy is that I really liked young Jill, young Clive, young Joshua, but then the game sucks the likability right out of them in favor of misery porn. And even when Clive is doing a lighthearted side quest he's not not a gruff grim misery gut.

Counterpoint: Turgel

The dog is a dog and all dog's are great. But he doesn't really count as a character.

When some of us were saying the story is "good" earlier really what I meant is in a pure quality sense- the plot advances make sense, the character motivations and decisions make sense in context, and it fits in the world well. But it's not a good story like artistically because the delivery largely stinks and the characters are so boring and the dialogue scenes for side quests I can't stress enough are so so so rote like I can't believe they took Horizon Zero Dawn and made it worse.

To a degree, I think the story is good to the point that I'm genuinely interested in seeing what happens in it. However there are certainly narrative choices that don't make a lot of sense to me. For example the time skips take a lot of wind out of the sails to be honest. The first time skip makes sense because you just need it so that you're playing as an adult and not a child. But the second one just kind of makes the rest of the plot feel unimportant. Because if long stretches of time can go by, and you've changed nothing, and the people you're trying to help don't like you, and everything fucking sucks...it's just like...what's the point of continuing if you've failed for so long already. Except now we are in control of the characters so now we are going to do the big missions when the characters wouldn't have been trying to do those missions this whole time instead? It's different now that we are in control. It just doesn't make sense and it makes the mission feel unimportant.

Again this is also where the small cast of characters really hurts the game as well, because without a party you don't really have supplimental characters that are pushing their own motivations upon you as well. There are no side characters who are from a specific city, or even party of the enemy factions who want you to help their friends or families. There are no party members with a side motivation to drag you along to to help flush out character relationships as well as add purpose to the overarching events.

Not to mention that this also means nobody is there to butt heads with Clive. There is nobody to challenge Clive's purpose, or plans, and it means that everything has to lean onto the villains who really aren't in the game much tbh. Quite honestly at the point in the game I'm at, I don't really understand why the SOLE motivation for Clive and his whole crew, isn't to go buttfuck Titan into sand. But apparently what Titan did to all of them doesn't seem to matter much. There isn't even dialog about Clive's ability to suck off eikons, why aren't we even considering that as an option? Why is nobody talking about why Clive has lighting powers and the normal lightning guy isn't coming over for tea anymore?

Ugh it's just fucking.....i dunno.

 

[sXeth]

I feel like VII falls kind of in 2nd or 3rd place in terms of FF games overall. I might be wrong based on the response to the 7 Remake though. But I feel like older gamers like 6 better, and the slightly younger gamers favor 10, because 6 and 10 seem to pop up more as the "best" FF games in the series more often.



These moments are such peaks, that I need a cooldown period lol. They are great and the build up is wonderful, but when the fire fades I need a break....or a viagra.

Well, internet discourse wasn't a huge thing around the time of anything before X. Probably though? X was kind of trying to manage the jumps 7 and 8 did but also wind a bit back towards the job system (sure you could break the sphere grid, but they were there) and fantasy settings. Its essentially the hyrbid of the two most successful styles. Awkward early voice acting aside.

Probably the schisms would be between 1 and 4 (ditching customziable characters, not counting the Japan-only releases), 6 and 7 (platform change, abrupt shift to basically fully sci-fi, total abandoment of the job system. I've always said 9 seemed like a reactionary consolation pumped out to relatively minimal fanfare at the tail end of a generation). Then you have a big batch of onboarding with X as the PS2 flagship

Everything after that seems pretty universally divisive in one way or another. Either for abandoning turn based strategy, or being an MMO or hacky writing, insane production times/delays, etc.

(As someone who was in the moment too, it bears nothing FF7 had a not insigificant, though lost to history blowback for its marketing basically being all bullshots from the pre-rendered cutscene stuff and then people bought it (and the Playstation itself in many case) and got cubes-for-arms instead.

 

[Jarrito3002]

Ok right now I am in hour 22 and going and I want to return and I am ready to give my status report.

So I mentioned earlier that the demo was causing my thumb to go numb. So I found a middle ground in setting B which maps attacks to the shoulder button. This has helped a lot but going into the abilites menu with square is still awkard even now with the hours. But this game sometimes need you have a break in the combat. Maybe I need to get something checked but mashing the button especially quickly makes me have to pause recover........and then I am back into the game.

I hope this is helped by the stats increases having significance while I can feel it the way enemies scale with you for the most part and how grinding yields jack shit unless and good spot is found you don't feel that power increase of wumbo number.

With the saying the combat WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!. I am more of KH man than DMC so I can feel the KH influence in how the arenas are set and abilites play out. Though some boss fights the area of effect was made with a KH dodge roll in mind and not Clive conservated side step. Mixing and matching the moves is where the butter is and figuring out the finisher combo and what moves drain the stagger meter is fun and helps make some fights faster. I think this was the balance with not letting too much RPG make the action combat redundant and less statisfying but I still want my stick with wumbo number to wack my enemies later.

As for the story.....look that prologue had me going aw shit FF got a M rating and aint playing loose it and I am loving it. Like I know I am not even close to the middle but Clive has gone through so much that he is up there in my favorite protag. The story is face in the dirt gritty and while there is some banter the goofiness is non existant. Like everyones motivations are clear and the more I do side quest and progress I feel engrossed in the world and the plight of the people.

Funny thing about this I remember the whole where the black people in the new FF. I have no skin in the game despite melanin numbers in the high level because Dragons Dogma 2 got me and gave me lion partner on top of that. And the response to that aside I feel Killmonger was involved in the writhing crew. Cause slavery is not a small metaphor, or rhetorical its just straight up a theme so my head canon was all the my high melanin counts decided to go we good and sit this one out. Hell there was this one side quest that stood out from the basic ass ones So this man gets bearers that slaves of the FFXVI world to go save his son from a wolf. This is all ploy to have the wolf maul the bearer cause both the dad and son thinks its funny. When I kill the wolf both dad and son are mad at me cause how dear I ruin there fun at living human beings expense. After telling them off I go to bury the killed bearers another one shows up and speaks very softly that a corned animal bites back and over the distance you can hear dad and son get offed by a wolf they were going to buy to continue there game.

I got more to say but I want to wrap up and get back to it but quick sum up.
Positives

1. Graphics because its FF
2. Combat is finally caught that Advent Children dragon they been chasing since 2005
3. Story is a kick to the dick and breath of fresh air to FF

Negatives

1. My poor appendages
2. Side Quest are side quest hopefully more substantial ones pop up
3. I wish for more customization of the party. I know the focus is on Clive but being able to do something with Jill or Cid or how there AI acts would be nice.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

> Because if long stretches of time can go by, and you've changed nothing, and the people you're trying to help don't like you, and everything fucking sucks...it's just like...what's the point of continuing if you've failed for so long already.

Ok.. this is an interesting point. I basically agree. But want you to come back to it when you get towards the late game, and see how we feel about this.

 

[gorfias]

Doh. I went to buy this for my PS4 Pro annnnd... it is for PS5 only?!? Dang it.

 

[Dreiko]

> Because if long stretches of time can go by, and you've changed nothing, and the people you're trying to help don't like you, and everything fucking sucks...it's just like...what's the point of continuing if you've failed for so long already.

Ok.. this is an interesting point. I basically agree. But want you to come back to it when you get towards the late game, and see how we feel about this.

I think that's kinda the point of the story. To not give up because you aren't being rewarded for doing the right thing. That's what a true hero does. It's easy to be righteous if the world rewards that, and it's hard to do that despite nobody caring. Absolutely loved that part of the game and the resilience it showed. With every slap in the face for helping some ingrate asshole I was even more motivated.


You do the right thing cause it's right, not cause it's beneficial or feels good.

 

[Cicada 5]

I can't get over the fact that the hero of this game is called Clive.

Lightning, Cloud, Squall, Noctis and frigging Clive.