Final Fantasy 16

Phoenixmgs

The Muse of Fate
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
9,228
805
118
w/ M'Kraan Crystal
Gender
Male
This is why I maintain Witcher 3's combat is "good"- because it's good in context of the game. It fits with the quests, it's not there to give you sick combos and git gud skill checks, it's their to provide interaction and tension for quest progression.
The opposite extreme in style but also good is of course Soulsborne, where combat is the point and the "story" is just context for it so you experience core game THROUGH combat, and the mechanics are designed for that. Story, world design, mechanics, all working hand-in-hand in very different ways, each that fit what those games offer.
The problem I have with Witcher 3's combat is that basic skills like axii and quen completely break the combat and make it shit easy. Also, the combat is a weird combination of Arkham and Souls combat in a sense and that just didn't work for me. Geralt looks good and all fighting regular humanoid enemies and has that Arkham flow to it, but Geralt is a monster hunter, not Batman. The monster combat is really bad and that's supposed to be the thing the game should excel at. For example, that griffon fight is so fucking bad and they showed that shit off at E3 like it was amazing and I'm like "that's a joke compared to something like Dragon's Dogma, does no one realize this?"
 
Last edited:

Dreiko

Elite Member
Legacy
May 1, 2020
2,757
929
118
CT
Country
usa
Gender
male, pronouns: your majesty/my lord/daddy
So I just beat bahamut and man, we're now in dbz/gurren lagann territory with these battles. And here I thought the titan fight was insane. I was on full on goosebump mode and hype shouts for the duration, and drenched in sweat by the end of it.

I feel like the only person who thought Dragon's Dogma was janky shit sandwich of a game.
The gameplay was like souls mixed with dmc and a touch of shadow of the collossus so I loved it, the story was a berserk ripoff though, but ah well, I love berserk :p.

I think the magic/archery classes were a bit janky, but the 2handed fighter/rogue ones were ace and that's what I played as.

One of the fundamental things that Japanese developers consistently fail at, its side content. Most JRPGs have side quests as an after thought, completionist content is cataloging every blade of grass and flower, or uber boss fights.

While hard bosses are fine they are strictly endgame things, and there is always a problem with general side content to do that can be done along side the main game. Ff7remake fails at this, xenoblade fails at this, tales games fail at this.

The only exceptions i can think of are the Yakuza games and Persona games.
I think it depends on what the game is going for. XIII basically had no side content at all, and people lambasted it for that. Imo that's how you go about it if you don't wanna focus a lot on the side stuff.


Though I think it's not all JP devs, the Trails of series has some of the best side content ever because it has wide-reaching ramifications and it makes you care about random NPCs and what they're going through. It's not even just the side quests, just talking to the NPCs around is engaging in and of itself. And Persona is really good in that regard too, since you spend a good half if not more of the game just doing Slinks and odd jobs and taking classes and stuff.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CriticalGaming

sXeth

Elite Member
Legacy
Nov 15, 2012
3,301
675
118
I feel like the only person who thought Dragon's Dogma was janky shit sandwich of a game.
As an avowed supporter of DD1 as the best of the Skyrim/Dogma/Dark souls release year.

Yeah the story's kind of cludgy and awkwardly presented. The endgame of the story where it goes full post-1997 JRPG is even wonkier (and basically boils down to a final gauntlet dungeon).

The open world lacks a ton of anything, and the sidequests seem like a retooled MMO. And the upgrade system made Souls look clear and well presented lol.

The combat was good, and had a lot of potential. But Pawns were trash AI and many of the moves are clearly designed for actual human co-op. The fact that nothing in the trailer for DD2 seems to jump out as *expanding* on this potential is concerning, and that they've siad we're still on pawns and no co-op option.

On a first entry in a series I will take potential and ambition over an entirely solid execution of a repeat, but yeah, DD2's got a lot of legwork for me to put any threshold behind that. But yeah, Dragons Dogma is a solid proof of concept for something, but as a standalone, is an RPG on an apparently shoestring budget (a ton of the animations and even some models are re-used Monster Hunter stuff), with some good ideas and combat.
 

Jarrito3002

Elite Member
Jun 28, 2016
572
473
68
Country
United States
I feel like the only person who thought Dragon's Dogma was janky shit sandwich of a game.
Looks at me owning Dogma 1 for Xbox360, PS3, PS4, Switch and Steam and is really hyped for number 2 to drop.
I can make a 3 hour long youtube essay about everything Dragons Dogma does wrong or just is haphazardly implemented and redundant systems.
And I will still place as one of the my top 5 games of all time..........ALL TIME!!!!!

No Dogma fan will say its not some janky shit but it is some goodass janky shit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
10,987
5,508
118
Looks at me owning Dogma 1 for Xbox360, PS3, PS4, Switch and Steam and is really hyped for number 2 to drop.
I can make a 3 hour long youtube essay about everything Dragons Dogma does wrong or just is haphazardly implemented and redundant systems.
And I will still place as one of the my top 5 games of all time..........ALL TIME!!!!!

No Dogma fan will say its not some janky shit but it is some goodass janky shit.
I suppose it works for Dark Souls players who insist the first one is the best one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jarrito3002

meiam

Elite Member
Dec 9, 2010
3,447
1,731
118
Jank isn't always bad, it often mean fun interesting creative idea rather than bland and generic tried and true.

dragon dogma was janky as fuck, but had enough interesting stuff that I hope carry trough. The climbing combat was great, as was the ability to remove/disable monster limbs. Magic was really impactful and didn't feel like you were shooting arrow except fancy. Magic archer had an ability to set yourself on fire, like real fire, it hurt a crap ton, super fun stuff. Night were really dark, not just a blue filter. The game would measure your affection to NPC by the number of time you'd interact with them, and at the end it would take hostage the NPC you had the highest affection for, so for plenty of people it would just be random shopkeeper, it wouldn't even care about your character sex.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

immortalfrieza

Elite Member
Legacy
May 12, 2011
2,336
270
88
Country
USA
Actually I kind of feel like the Western RPG's have the opposite problem, in which the side content is really good but the main quest is dogshit. Fallout 4 comes to mind where the main quest makes no sense but the side quests are great, side quests are SO good in fact they make you not give a shit about your kidnapped kid.
That's been the case with all of Bethesda's games. The main quest is little more than an excuse. It's just "here's how you got here, now go nuts" at the core of it. It's never been the point of the game to actually do the main quest. The intent has always been for the player to come up with their own reasons for doing things and what they'll do in pursuit of those things.

Want to find your son? Do it! Want to putz around exploring? Do it! Want to build up settlements? Do it! Want to be a psychopath killing everybody for grins? Get away from me, but do it. And so on and so forth. Fallout 4 probably had the most interesting main quest Bethesda games have ever had, but it's not going to beat 100 hours of side content.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

meiam

Elite Member
Dec 9, 2010
3,447
1,731
118
That's been the case with all of Bethesda's games. The main quest is little more than an excuse. It's just "here's how you got here, now go nuts" at the core of it. It's never been the point of the game to actually do the main quest. The intent has always been for the player to come up with their own reasons for doing things and what they'll do in pursuit of those things.

Want to find your son? Do it! Want to putz around exploring? Do it! Want to build up settlements? Do it! Want to be a psychopath killing everybody for grins? Get away from me, but do it. And so on and so forth. Fallout 4 probably had the most interesting main quest Bethesda games have ever had, but it's not going to beat 100 hours of side content.
I'd argue fallout 4 had the worst main quest because it was so overbearing and left almost no room for interpretation. I think most player did not give a shit about finding Shaun since they had no connection to him and would have been preferred a more open ended main quest (or just the same story minus Shaun and use the husband/wife murder as the call to action). That and the fact that the institute made 0 sense and literally did not have a reason for replacing people with synth.
 

Dreiko

Elite Member
Legacy
May 1, 2020
2,757
929
118
CT
Country
usa
Gender
male, pronouns: your majesty/my lord/daddy
Man Bahamut is a blast (literally too!), half the time I'm just charging mah lasers looking swag. At first I wasn't sure what to make of his ability but then I noticed the evasion effect it had and it all clicked instantly.
 

immortalfrieza

Elite Member
Legacy
May 12, 2011
2,336
270
88
Country
USA
That and the fact that the institute made 0 sense and literally did not have a reason for replacing people with synth.
Aside from, you know, infiltrating the Commonwealth so they could manipulate and eventually take it over, which is made obvious.

It's like people don't even pay attention to the lore. Yes the Institute makes no sense, but some of what they do does, like making Synths. They're little more than an organization of 1950's style mad scientists, and like said mad scientists they have no rhyme or reason for much of anything they do or make, it's just FOR SCIENCE!
 

meiam

Elite Member
Dec 9, 2010
3,447
1,731
118
Aside from, you know, infiltrating the Commonwealth so they could manipulate and eventually take it over, which is made obvious.

It's like people don't even pay attention to the lore. Yes the Institute makes no sense, but some of what they do does, like making Synths. They're little more than an organization of 1950's style mad scientists, and like said mad scientists they have no rhyme or reason for much of anything they do or make, it's just FOR SCIENCE!
I mean, they have by far the most advanced science and infrastructure in the commonwealth, they can take over just by opening a town with fancy things like clean water and non radioactive food, the only other large settlement only has a wall going for it. If they don't want to reveal themselves, they can just staff the town with synth. They would be the de facto power of the commonwealth, there's no reason to replace people.

It'd be much more interesting if their mad science plan was about doing something interesting and suitable mad scientist (maybe turn everyone into ghoul so they don't have to fear radiation, or make the entire commonwealth levitate in the sky for defence or w/e).
 

immortalfrieza

Elite Member
Legacy
May 12, 2011
2,336
270
88
Country
USA
I mean, they have by far the most advanced science and infrastructure in the commonwealth, they can take over just by opening a town with fancy things like clean water and non radioactive food, the only other large settlement only has a wall going for it. If they don't want to reveal themselves, they can just staff the town with synth. They would be the de facto power of the commonwealth, there's no reason to replace people.
In that backstory the Institute tried to pretty much do exactly that. The Commonwealth rejected them and thus the Institute went with trying to conquer the place outright.
 

Zechs

Regular Member
Jun 5, 2013
17
6
13
Finished FF16 on Friday. I don't know I wasn't really going in with crazy expectations as I was playing it blind, but I feel like the game is kind of mid (6-7/10). It kind of feels like Diofield chronicle or Valkyrie Elysium, only with a larger budget. While the actual game play is pretty fun, the Eikon fights don't have much going on game-play wise and drag on for too long.

The thing that really puts a huge damper on the combat is something I have never seen anyone talking about and it's the severe lack of enemy variety. I was already fighting tons of reused bosses 37% of the way in and it only gets worse from there because after half way through outside of the big bosses there is maybe 3 or so new mini bosses. This might not have been so bad, but the basic enemies with no stagger bar might as well not exist. Sure, you can juggle them and do all these fancy combos, or you can just use one of the big long cool down AoE's and then they all die. Even if you don't do that, it doesn't really make much difference if you just mash square.

The level design and world also feel pretty, eh. Lots of linear levels with enclosed spaces don't really lend well to the combat and the more open areas don't really have anything interesting to do or see for the most part. The world itself doesn't really look all that fantastical, very boring medieval run-down towns and the whole games world feels really small.


Now for the story and, oh boy, I have heard people say that it was good, while that might be true for the first chunk with its political musings, and such it quickly drops that for a series of one-dimensional villains with questionable execution for their dubious plans. The whole bearer thing kind of falls flat for me as well, like so your telling me the people who can use magic are slaves? And are forced to use it on mundane tasks like drying laundry outside (I literally laughed at this due to it's absurdity) while they slowly die from using magic? This is a huge plot point of the game's story as well and it just doesn't work for me.

Side quests are probably the most boring content this game has to offer. They are all voice acted so they feel important, but the dialogue is so bland and goes on for so long only to have 5 seconds of a battle (if your lucky to get a battle at all) The rewards also are just not worth it 1500 gil and 20 renown amazing.


The characters in this game could have been done a lot better too, as the bond between Clive and Jill should have been an easy win, but it just doesn't feel as good as it could have been. The 5 year time skip and their relationship is exactly the same as it was after they first reunited. I don't know, I just don't buy their relationship with the writing and performances. It's pretty much the same for the rest of the characters, they all just feel like npcs rather than characters.


As a second to last note here, the whole "It's a mature Final Fantasy game" is just so funny to me because they took what people thought "mature" was from the mid 2000s and put it in this game swearing, sexual themes, violence. It's just to funny to me that characters in this fantasy world are constantly dropping F-bombs, almost as if the devs are like "See look, Final Fantasy is very mature now", and then a villain gives your typical anime/final fantasy nonsensical monologue.


Final thoughts: I would have liked this game to take Final Fantasy to new heights, but sadly, there's still not a Final Fantasy that can match or surpass FF12 which was 17 years ago.