Fire Emblem Fates Cuts Petting From English Version

[Hades]

I just saw Mundanemats video about it and he seems to take the not so uncommon stance of thinking skinship was removed because of a fear to offend those gosh darn social justice warriors.

Lets correct something here. It are not the social justice warriors who have the biggest reason to dislike this feature and they are not the ones who gain the most of this move. The ones with the biggest reasons to dislike skinshippings presence in Fire emblem are the traditional Fire emblem fans and they are the ones with the most to gain of Fire emblems excellent pedigree not being polluted. When people think of Fire emblem they should think ''oh, that founder of the turn based strategy genre with 13 great titles under its belt'' rather then ''Oh that game where you can pet shota's and loli's''.

This is not an instance of fans being deprived of a staple of their quirky series because of boring and prudish Westerners. Skinship was a very recent, very unwelcome addition which was controversial to both the Fire emblem fans and the games own developers. Any pushback against skinshipping came from long time Fire emblem fans while I never even heard a social justice warrior comment on it. Sure, there is overlap between fans of fire emblem and those that like Skinshipping but to most long time fans it wasn't a welcome edition. This is not an example of long time fans being left out in the cold to avoid offending those with no interest in the game itself.

Social justice warriors just didn't make a fuss out of this issue while Fire emblem fans expressed displeasure over having such a stupid feature in a proud series. Maybe Skinship got removed out of fear of sjw's but its also possible Nintendo realized the feature was out of place in Fire emblem and that it would get deemed so in a country without the amount of Otaku's to make them get away with such an out of place addition.

It just irks me that people on non Fire emblem sites generally ignore the Fire emblem series and its fans on this issue. Skinship has not been part of Fire emblem in its decades long history before fates, its not part of Fire emblems identity and a large amount of the fans never ever wanted such a feature. Instead I see people talk about censorship and social justice warriors.

And another thing! Can we stop with the Pokemon comparisons when it comes to Conquest and birthright? They aren't the same game with little differences. The games got different playable casts, different stories and different game play stlyles, Conquest being more in line with Fire emblem games before Awakening and Birthright being more like Awakening. Its more like the Zelda Oracle games then the red and blue Pokemon games.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

"They're not coming for your games."
- Jim, the Jimquisition

I wish I could edit video, just for that clip so I could use it when needed.

Don't bother. The internet doesn't need any more people sarcastically dragging that quote out every time a developer so much as alters a font. Plenty of others will digently inform us that the sky is falling, we don't need another voice to the chorus.

But as for this...I feel like I should screenshot every single page in this thread so that everyone who is in favor of this, or saying that "its fine" can never ever go back or try and dodge their position again.

I'm just not sure I want to make that many enemies at one time.

Because by saying this is fine, you have hereby and forever forfeited your right to EVER, EVER ***** about censorship EVER again. Because you're just proving that you WANT censorship and are okay with it - when you like it. When its okay and doesn't affect something YOU want...

I'm really starting to understand why so many arguments pop up bickering over the definition of censorship; because plenty of others are more than willing to conflate every single form of censorship bar none, no matter how petty or severe, under into the same level of severity. That claim that anyone who is so much as apathetic about this automatically wants censorship is absolutely absurd, and just reminds me of all the people screaming "you're either with us or you support terrorism!"
So I guess we're not allow to complain about games getting outright banned if we aren't upset about this completely mundane localization? If the government begins kicking down our door and dragging us off to "re-education camps" for disagreeing with the party we're still not allowed to complain because we didn't flip enough tables that time a company well known for prudishness removed content during a localization, as they have forever? No thanks, I'll reserve my right to complain, since I don't view the world in false dichotomies.

This might be a radical idea I'm putting forth, but perhaps not all forms of censorship warrant hysteria, especially these wishy-washy cases of people editing content without any given reason. But I suppose we're just meant to assume it was at the behest of SJWs.

...Because I'm 100% willing to bet real US dollars that some of the very same people in this thread saying this is acceptable or okay are the same people who if they found out the next Witcher or Fallout or Blizzard game had this kind of censorship (or censorship at all) would be incredibly irate and demanding it be changed or fixed, or at the very least voicing their extreme displeasure.

And what kind of censorship would that be? I certainly won't complain if they decide to remove some absurd mini-game about petting people. But I suppose this is the part where I use my imagination to come up with some heinous act of censorship. But that's a bet you'll probably win, since "some" is about as vague as quantities get.

As for the topic at hand; the SJWs and whatever-the-fuck-wave we're on now feminism have won, or are now very much on the very edge of victory. They have gotten what they wanted - self-censorship in order to avoid the media shitstorm people like Sarkeesian and Chu are capable of kicking up. There are still enough old guard and people my age who aren't buying this shit for there to still be a market, but I'm calling it right now; within one or two generations the SJWs will be in complete control and it will be diversity quotas, games being canned for not being "sensitive" enough or whatever other tripe they use to measure the "correctness" of art at that time.

Again, people are absolutely certain those dastardly SJWs are responsible for this, despite there being no evidence whatsoever. Whether people want to accept it or not, different cultures have different tastes in media. This is nothing new; changing content during localization to make the media more reflective of the target culture isn't anything new. The only part that's new is blaming this completely mundane and predictable act on the SJWs.

As for all this "self censorship," I have to wonder, where do you draw the line between editing and censorship? If I write a first draft of a novel and decide audience won't like it, am I "self censoring" when I re-write it?

And lest you not forget and come in try to call "hyperbole" and "overreaction" - we were assured that SJWs and their ilk were "no threat". That nothing would come of them.

At least you're aware of how your post will be received.

And in less than two years we have a major US developer (Blizzard) getting caught trying to sneak through changes on one of their characters, while the lead Dev on another game has expressed a desire to change the designs of major characters to suit "modern" tastes (Metzen, on wanting to change the Dragon Aspects and possibly others).

I had to continually add more and more search keys before Google even spat out a relevant page, and even then it was nothing more than a (small) handful of threads on the WoW forums. Forgive me if I don't bunker down in my doomsday shelter just yet. So it seems someone somewhere changed one World of Warcraft's many bikini clad character designs from a metal bikini to a metal bikini with skin tight fabric underneath. Oh woe, now we don't have any female character's left to prance around in skimpy armor ... except for all those other ones.

I suppose this is the part where people start unironically throwing around terms like "artistic integrity"? Because as we all know, their character designs show that much skin because it just makes so much sense for the lore and has deep artistic roots, not because they're simply pandering to an audience to make fat stacks of cash. But now that they've changed these designs to (presumably) pander for more money, their artistic integrity is suddenly dead.
I know I'm about to piss a lot of people off for saying this, but the re-design arguably has more artistic merit since it is at least reflecting some kind of idea or theme. Whether you like the political message behind the redesign doesn't change the fact that there is at least an idea behind it, whereas the previous design philosophy was simply tits=money.

Worst of all, these changes Blizzard are making seem to be coming from a developer, not from external pressures. You mentioned Chris Metzen, and he was the one who put the idea forth. How exactly is raging at a developer for making voluntary changes based on their own ideas any better than what the SJWs are doing? Are developers now required to toe the line and add a quota of scantily clad women, lest they offend the sensibilities of gamers?

We have one developer not releasing their newest game in the US and Europe (Team Ninja, DoA) despite the game's predecessor's making the bulk of their profit overseas.

And now we have Nintendo heavily censoring a game because of this.

1 time is an anomaly. 2 times is a coincidence. 3 times is a pattern.

Does it need to be 5 or 6 before you're willing to admit to it?

What exactly is it people are supposed to admit to? That there's a shadowy cabal of tyrannical SJWs ruling over us, based on some Japanese games being altered for localization (as they always have), and a few people voluntarily changing their works. This entire controversy is entirely hypothetical. We never got to see SJWs tear this game down for this minigame, because it was never released. But I suppose self-censorship is a convenient boogyman these days, since people don't even have to be aware of a game to be blamed for its alteration.

I would be inclined to be nicer about all this if you hadn't decided for me that I must love all types of censorship due to my apathy over this mundane localization.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, as sick as I am of all the progressives complaining about everything, I'm growing more and more tired of the hysteria put forth by their opposition. Despite claiming to be fighting for "developer freedom," it seems these days developers can't so much as blow their nose without being labeled a traitor and SJW sympathizer.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I'd like to say that while this kind of silly feature being removed won't really kill it for me, I am finding the censorship and content cutting a bit disheartening.

Is it really censorship if you do it on spec?

 

[Something Amyss]

"They're not coming for your games."
- Jim, the Jimquisition

I wish I could edit video, just for that clip so I could use it when needed.

Link me to the appropriate video and I can do it for you.

Just keep in mind, it doesn't help your argument any. Why? Because they're not coming for your games. You're invoking names and movements that post-date this sort of "censorship," often by quite a bit. Sarkeesian was like, one when the NES came out, and Nintendo had already decided that the NES was going to be marketed to kids and as a toy. Nintendo has gone down that path since before you were even born.

In fact, nobody seemed to care until they could be outraged at the other, the SJW or feminist taking away their games. You use the DOAX3 example, but it doesn't make your case. The game was announced not to be coming to the west months ago, and almost nobody cared. A petition managed to get about 5,000 signatures. Nobody cared until the community manager blamed SJWs or feminism. And then suddenly it wasn't that the game might not sell, it's an incursion on gaming.

...so why no interest before? This says to me it's not so much an interest in censorship, but either outrage culture lashing out at a political target, or people upset because they can't get what they want. Hell, Nintendo's been "censoring" products for 30 years. Most of you weren't even born when this started happening, so if the SJWs have won, what then? You were born in occupied territory. But you're not just turning a blind eye to the practice, you're pretending it's something new. And trotting out this idea of quotas and such because of it. Using decades-old moral panic--stuff older than I am--to make an argument for why we should be worried, even though in decades of the exact same claims it hasn't happened.

So document my comments, bust out the Jim Sterling quote that makes things look more exaggerated, not less. To borrow from The Doctor, "point a gun at me if it helps you relax."

Yeah, because the enemies of gaming who, for some strange reason, reside on a gaming forum, are going to put you on a blacklist for when the federal government starts rounding people up at the bequest of The Sarkeeslebub.

Having been on several "watch" or "enemy" lists, including personal information being documented on the web publicly, I can say such a concern (dialed back from government incursion) might be valid.

...though it also might point to why he might not be the one who should be afraid of making enemies.

 

[Something Amyss]

WTF is this shit? Hets and homos can't be turned gay or straight for fuck's sake.

Yes, but you do understand conversion therapy is a real thing that really happens and it costs real lives, right?

I'd like to say that while this kind of silly feature being removed won't really kill it for me, I am finding the censorship and content cutting a bit disheartening.

Personally, I think the fact that it got cut in NA was the part that pissed me off. If a dev takes a bit out of a game from the start, then fair enough. It was an artistic choice. But when a team decides to cut out parts of the game for only certain parts of the world, that's when I start getting a little pissed. We can't be progressive if we mindlessly censor games just because someone might find it offensive.

The NES is 30 now. Nintendo has been "censoring" content since it came to our shores. Nintendo did this because they made a deliberate choice to be a toy, to market to kids.

Where was the outrage? For that matter, is it wrong for Nintendo to have done that?

What exactly is it people are supposed to admit to? That there's a shadowy cabal of tyrannical SJWs ruling over us, based on some Japanese games being altered for localization (as they always have), and a few people voluntarily changing their works.

Oh shit he's on to us! Abort, abort!

Wait...he only knows about the Japanese games. He hasn't mentioned the Eldritch ferret sleeper cells. Carry on

LOL yeah, no such thing as a shadowy SJW cabal. That you can prove.

 

[Objectable]

fucking call me when there?s a petition to put back all the name changes and references in Xenogears and Xenosaga. That?s censorship/?localization issues? I actually care about not Pokemon Amie; Weeb delusion edition.

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

I would say that we could have two different versions, one without and one with the "offending" content. Unfortunately, the outrage crowd have shown they aren't just happy with "offensive" material not being in their games/movies, they dont want anyone else to have it either. That's why the "Just change the channel if you dont like it" argument doesn't work in America.

The ESRB also needs to change their rating system to not be age based as it seems many 18+ individuals cant handle even some of the most innocent of content. The ratings should be based on mental stability with the highest rating being rated R for reasonable people.

 

[SweetShark]

I see the problem.
And I found the solution.
change all the appearance of all characters with extra fur and dog noses.
This will do the trick.
This is after all the reason why you could pet a humanoid Dog in Undertale. Thank God the child didn't pet a Humanoid Goat.
This would be Taboo yo!

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

"They're not coming for your games."
- Jim, the Jimquisition

Something isn't not happening just because someone says it's not happening. Especially when that someone was too out of touch for even this website.

 

[Something Amyss]

fucking call me when there?s a petition to put back all the name changes and references in Xenogears and Xenosaga. That?s censorship/?localization issues? I actually care about not Pokemon Amie; Weeb delusion edition.

That's the beautiful thing. You don't need to wait. Just frame this as "SJWs" taking away your free speech, and you can do it yourself.

Something isn't not happening just because someone says it's not happening. Especially when that someone was too out of touch for even this website.

One should probably make sure one's own views comport with reality before accusing others of being out of touch.

 

[sageoftruth]

Oh no...that was holding the game together. Really, is anyone seriously going to miss this?

Not really. I'm just concerned that we're slowly becoming the new China in the eyes of the world. I'm picturing a Japanese PR guy going, "Wait! Are you shipping that to the US? You'd better cut out anything controversial. You know how bad THOSE people are at dealing with controversy."

While I do have a threshold for Japanese weirdness, I am a bit drawn to how it distinguishes their games from ours and would be pretty disappointed if Japanese companies no longer felt comfortable sharing it with us.

 

[SquallTheBlade]

snip

What about us fans who DO welcome these new additions? Don't our voice matter at all? "We Fire Emblem fans"-argument doesn't really mean anything when there are just as many different fans as there are individuals in the world.

 

[Erttheking]

Oh no...that was holding the game together. Really, is anyone seriously going to miss this?

Not really. I'm just concerned that we're slowly becoming the new China in the eyes of the world. I'm picturing a Japanese PR guy going, "Wait! Are you shipping that to the US? You'd better cut out anything controversial. You know how bad THOSE people are at dealing with controversy."

While I do have a threshold for Japanese weirdness, I am a bit drawn to how it distinguishes their games from ours and would be pretty disappointed if Japanese companies no longer felt comfortable sharing it with us.

Considering there wasn't really any organized backlash and barely any backlash at all against the skinshipping, I don't really known where this concern comes from. Nintendo did this without any real outside prompting because they just thought it would be better that way. Hell, Nintendo has been doing this for decades. I don't really know why people seem to be under the impression that Japan considers America (Why just America and not the west? We don't exactly monopolize complaining. Nor do I see Japan saying that they're going to take this out of the American version but still keep it in the pal region version.) some backwards place where they can never export games to, despite the fact that's what brought the game industry back to life.

Trust me, I don't think that's the problem here. There's a difference between things that give a game a feeling of being from a different culture, and things that just don't make any sense in a certain culture. I mean, the US would never export a game that was heavily steeped in gun culture and the wonder of how awesome guns are (An IRL based game, not a Borderlands like game) and if they did it would sell horribly.

 

[Something Amyss]

What about us fans who DO welcome these new additions? Don't our voice matter at all? "We Fire Emblem fans"-argument doesn't really mean anything when there are just as many different fans as there are individuals in the world.

Depends on what you mean by "matter."

In the scheme of things, the number of people who want these things seems to be relegated to a handful of people expressing their outrage. Compared to Nintendo's choice, their choice to be a family-friendly company in America, it probably doesn't matter at all. At the same time, you have every right to voice your opinion, so it matters. But it's likely not going to change anything.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Oh no...that was holding the game together. Really, is anyone seriously going to miss this?

Not really. I'm just concerned that we're slowly becoming the new China in the eyes of the world. I'm picturing a Japanese PR guy going, "Wait! Are you shipping that to the US? You'd better cut out anything controversial. You know how bad THOSE people are at dealing with controversy."

While I do have a threshold for Japanese weirdness, I am a bit drawn to how it distinguishes their games from ours and would be pretty disappointed if Japanese companies no longer felt comfortable sharing it with us.

You know Japan localizes Western games in much the same way we localize their games, right? Only real difference is that they tend to focus on our gratuitous ultra-violence. The circular saw in Until Dawn, decapitations in Dead Rising, the nuke in Fallout 3...

And yet, no panic from our devs, far as I can tell.

 

[SquallTheBlade]

I guess we should add a minigame where we grope Samus' booty in the next Metroid. I mean, if it sells its good, right? Hell, lets make that the primary mechanic, screw all that action bullshit.

Actually, that sounds good. I'd love a dating sim with Samus, Palutena, Lucina and other Nintendo girls. Where can I contribute to this?

 

[Dragonbums]

Who is the target audience of Fire Emblem games in Japan? Cause I sure as shit hope it ain't kids.

Anyway, I'll never support the removing of a video game feature. Best to just default it to "off" and let the player decide to turn it on. Everyone wins and everyone is happy... or at least they should be.

If it makes it any better this feature was a hot button issue even within the IS studios. And if you remove the heavy 'Moe Fantasy Land' lens that a lot of posters seem to have here about Japan- even a lot of the Fire Emblem audience in Japan were split 50/50 on it. To the point where Sakurai even commented on it.

Trust me, this feature has caused a lot of headaches on all grounds and it wouldn't surprise me if it just didn't make a return in the next game.

 

[Something Amyss]

You know Japan localizes Western games in much the same way we localize their games, right? Only real difference is that they tend to focus on our gratuitous ultra-violence. The circular saw in Until Dawn, decapitations in Dead Rising, the nuke in Fallout 3...

And yet, no panic from our devs, far as I can tell.

I don't know, I find it troubling that Japanese Saints Row fans were censored out of the ability to murder people with a giant purple dildo.

 

[sageoftruth]

Not really. I'm just concerned that we're slowly becoming the new China in the eyes of the world.

If somebody thinks the removal of a dumb, pandering minigame from a game is turning the US into totalitarian China you should really disregard everything that person thinks because they're clearly not putting much effort behind their thoughts. China, were people still get thrown into forced labour camps for making protests, not even protests against the government but protests against private businesses as well. I mean, basically the whole reason China still "supports" North Korea is because when people look at North Korea for their human rights violations it takes heat off of their for their somewhat milder human rights violations. Anybody thinking that is being ridiculous and their poor business decisions will give them a disadvantage against its opponent companies, making it harder to get by. I mean, that is their right but there's a difference between a deliberate business decision and trying to act a certain way (eg Nintendo's family-friendly persona) and just make a blatant mistake and losing out on profit because of it.

You're right. That was a poor comparison. At the time, I was only thinking about China's inability to handle anything that rocks the boat even slightly. Still, is it true that China's using forced labor camps? I knew they were imprisoning people for ridiculous things like protests, but forced labor?

 

[Erttheking]

I guess we should add a minigame where we grope Samus' booty in the next Metroid. I mean, if it sells its good, right? Hell, lets make that the primary mechanic, screw all that action bullshit.

Actually, that sounds good. I'd love a dating sim with Samus, Palutena, Lucina and other Nintendo girls. Where can I contribute to this?

I'm sorry, she said groping Samus' ass, how do you make the jump from that to dating sim? And what kind of a dating sim has groping as the primary mechanic?