Friends Zone (AKA why aren't we doing this?)

Joey245

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I've admitted my feelings to at least five different girls I was friends with in the past. All of them turned me down. I like to think of them as pretty close friends, but they always just don't have the same feelings for me.

And yet, am I constantly being whiny and sad? Am I trying to constantly change their mind that I was the right guy for them?

No.

Because, even if I could never have been able to be the one man for them, I much preferred having them for a friend than not being in touch with them at all.

If a girl doesn't have feelings for me, then she doesn't have feelings for me. Plain, simple, easy. It's not exactly rocket science here.

I still have yet to know what having a girlfriend feels like (hell, I have yet to know what a kiss feels like), but I know that the perfect woman is out there for me somewhere. I just need to keep my eyes open.
 

barbzilla

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Dec 6, 2010
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InterAirplay said:
Actually this is part of a series of topics I plan on posting, so I can see where the confusion comes in. I needed more perspective for the second topic so I posted this one early to get some other view points.

I believe that when a guy lands himself in the FZ it is usually more on him than it is on her. I also believe that the FZ can lead to some wonderful things. If you are man enough to move on with your life you can develop some amazing friendships. The trick is realizing what is going on and moving on with your life.

The original post was written in response to a friend of mine who has landed hard into the FZ and this girl is using him for it. I am working on getting him free of this relationship because I think even if he does end up dating this girl things are not going to go well for him. She is very manipulative and he doesn't have the balls to call her on it. Since I wanted to make a series of posts I decided to do each one from a different view point, and the first was from the view point of my friend.


P.S. if you are interested my next topic will be Man Up (AKA how to be yourself)
 

Tarakos

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May 21, 2009
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Ugh, fuck the friend zone.

As you can tell from my well thought out preamble, I've encountered this dreaded beast before. I've even gotten the whole "love you like a brother" BS. That's certainly worse.

I really can't stand girls that complain about not being able to find a guy, when there's a perfectly good guy in her friend. But I guess I can't pretend to know the inner workings of a chick's mind, can I?
 

Kahunaburger

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Tarakos said:
Ugh, fuck the friend zone.

As you can tell from my well thought out preamble, I've encountered this dreaded beast before. I've even gotten the whole "love you like a brother" BS. That's certainly worse.

I really can't stand girls that complain about not being able to find a guy, when there's a perfectly good guy in her friend. But I guess I can't pretend to know the inner workings of a chick's mind, can I?
You want to find a woman, but I assume that you only want be in a relationship a woman you find attractive. You certainly wouldn't want one of your female friends to make an executive decision about whether she was "perfectly good" for you without your input. Same principle.
 

Thanatos5150

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Apr 20, 2009
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Y'know, I sat through a woman, explaining, in detail, why the "Friend Zone" theory is bullshit.

Let me offer you, dear Escapist, a Venn Diagram instead. Because Charts make things easy to understand.


I apologize for the poor quality, but, well, I threw it together in paint for in a few minuets. This is actually the second draft - the first was difficult to read.
 

conflictofinterests

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I've tried setting guys straight, and as I've never actually gone through relationships like women being spoken of in this thread, I can't really be accused of complaining about all my shitty relationships to them. I can, however, vouch for how INCREDIBLY creepy guys can get after you tell them it's never going to happen. For some reason "No" seems to mean "try harder" and then I have to cut ties with them because they get all stalker-ish. :< Maybe I was too demure? Maybe I should have shouted at them to stop in front of all our friends? Maybe I shouldn't have expected the friendship to last through the rejection. I don't fucking know.
 

Vault Citizen

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UNKNOWNINCOGNITO said:
Vault Citizen said:
I was best friends with a girl I really wanted to go out with but she was with this other guy, fast forward 4 years she has dumped him and we've been together for 19 months.
It does not bother you how much she got it on with that other guy ?
No, why would it? I know she wasn't a virgin before we got together and neither was I. Its not like I spent those 2 years of waiting to be with her waiting for her.
 

Jim Stacey

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I recall once laying on a hill with a girl that I liked very much. When I was about to speak up about how I felt, she said to me, "This is great. You're like my new big brother!"

So I moved on and we're still great friends.
 

0p3rati0n

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Apr 14, 2009
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Well I've never been in the friend zone. I actually thought for a moment if I friend zoned a girl. Only one came to mind, but as I thought about it didn't pan out as a friend zone thing. We only play with each other on XBL. We have had discussions, but there is typically another person in the party. Some were of our feelings about relationships. Other about just stuff. I don't use her as ice cream (as some one on here put it) and I don't pour my feelings out to her (that's for my youth group). But unless she professes a crush on to me, then I'll be doing some serious reevaluating.
 

Shadow flame master

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So it's friend zone trouble today huh? Well, I might as well throw my two cents in this mess.

I don't see what's the big deal about friend zones. Maybe it's because I have no relationship experience but I do have a girl I like. Of course she sees my as a friend but I'm ok with it. She says that I'm not her type and after thinking about it, I'm really not. I am what you could call a "nice" guy but I do have tendencies to be mean and hostile to people I don't know or like. Also, I am shy and nice to a fault so many people cheat off of me and be friends with me even though I don't like alot of them. I am not very assertive of myself so I can see why I'm not her type.

Basically, because of my hostile attitude and being nice to a fault, I am her friend and not her boyfriend. No I haven't asked her out but if she said no or "I only see us as firends" I'll respect her desicion and continue being her firend.
 

Avistew

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I get really, really, really pissed about people when you tell them that you think they're a great person and they'll definitely find someone, and they're like "and yet you're not dating me" like we owe it to them.
Listen, I'm not going to date all the people I think are great and worthy of love. And most of all, I don't date someone I'm not in love with. And if you love me and I don't love you, it sucks, I know, I've done unrequited love, I've been rejected almost every time I asked a guy out and I can only remember being asked out once (because somehow it makes more sense to complain you don't have a girlfriend and whine until someone pities you than actually ask them out, apparently).
But if I don't love you, well I owe you nothing. Either you were my friend out of friendship and you got what you gave because we're friends, so I don't owe you more than that, or you were my friend because you wanted a relationship and you're a big manipulative jerk and I want nothing to do with you.

What gets to me the most is a friend of mine who posted on facebook (right after a breakup) "It's insulting how all my female friends tell me I'll find someone else... with the implication that it won't be them". Well, I say it's insulting when you obviously just want someone, anyone, and are insulted by every single person who isn't interested in you. I mean is everyone who tries to comfort you supposed to want to date you? Can they really expect you to be looking for someone when you just broke up?

If a person doesn't date you, it's not because you've been "friend zoned" and it's not because "nice guys finish last". I'm sorry, it's easy to tell yourselves these things, I know, because it makes it feel like you're the "good guy" and the other person is just shallow and doesn't see how worthy you are. But it's BS. They're not interested in you because they aren't. Do you know how often I've wished I could be in love with a good friend? You don't control it. And when it's your friend and they have feelings for you, even if it would be safe to be with them, even if they'd be good to you and you can trust them and already know them, it's still a shitty thing to do to date them when you're not actually interested. As much as you tell yourself you might develop feelings for them while dating them, you know you already would have developed them being around them as a friend, and it's not worth the risk of hurting someone you love so much.

So before you complain that life is unfair, try to think about that a little bit. These girls won't date you because they aren't manipulative jerks who want to toy with your feelings. They respect you enough to reject you honestly. Just accept it. You don't have to stop loving someone just because you can't be with them. If you care so much about them, don't you want them to be happy?

Anyway. The only people I've ever dated were my friends first. Yet most of my male friends I haven't dated. That's not because there is a magical friend zone. That's because I don't develop feelings for every guy ever. Being friends is required, sure, but it's by no means enough. It doesn't give you a pass for anything else. It's extremely arrogant to think otherwise.
 

Herbsk

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Kenko said:
Sniper Team 4 said:
My favorite? (Keep in mind I usually say this after I have tried repeatedly with the girl I'm talking to)

"I'm never going to find a girlfriend."
"That's not true. You're nice, kind, you have a good head on your shoulders, you listen. You have lots of redeeming features."
"And yet..."
The girl usually stops talking after that because she'll catch herself on what she's about to say: "You're not my type." And no, that hasn't been from one girl. I get that from nearly every girl I ever ask out just for lunch.
Yeah that fuckin line is evil as it translates into "I like you, but im just gonna make up some nice things about you to sweeten the part where I reject you." Next time I hear that, that ***** has whatever beverage im holding coming her way. Since I don't drink coffee, enjoy the tea *****!
Good lord that's a funny image - thank you good sir for almost making me spit MY tea out my nose!

(Now, I'm not saying I would do the same to a person I felt that way about - but it would be funny to see!)
 

conflictofinterests

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Protip: Most women decide for themselves whether or not you're a viable dating option in the first five minutes of actively observing you. If you don't make your intentions known during that window of time, you are likely going to be relegated to the friend zone.

However, if you were not aware of these first five minutes of observation, you probably have a second chance in the first five minutes of conversation. Use them wisely to communicate your interest and availability. She may not be interested at first, or she may not be interested ever, but afterwards you have to let the idea of "you" as a viable dating option sink in.

In the meantime, do whatever, you know? Your life doesn't revolve around her. You just fucking met!
 

MSTJedi

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Iznat said:
I dated a friend ._.

Still am. And it's super!
Then you were most likely never in "the friend zone". You were just getting to know each other and eventually, the feelings manifested.

robincb said:
this really nice chick, we met one day and we just talked for like 3 hours, then a month later for 3 more hours and suddenly she was my girlfriend, 6 days later im single again, because she has 'too much on her mind'. one week later she has someone else, the scars heal so slowly
Beware anyone who wants to become exclusive after that short of an exposure. Yes, there was a month between, but the actual exposure to each other was only 6 hours. Also, if you meet a girl who has been engaged about 5 times (especially if she's in her early 20s or younger), run the frak away. This girl likes the idea of love, but doesn't know that real love involves actual commitment and loyalty and that those warm fuzzies of new love don't last forever. Better things come along, like trust and interdependence, but the butterflies don't last forever.

As for the friend zone in general, if you find yourself there, give it up. What the girl means by wanting to find someone like you is that she wants to find someone like you, who will understand her and support her, but someone like that who she is *attracted to*. Attraction, often referred to as "chemistry", is an unexplainable thing. There's no logic to it and you can't make it happen. It can change over time, sure (my tastes have changed many times over the years), but there is no way by being more there for her or more understanding you will get that chemistry to change.
 

Kenko

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Herbsk said:
Kenko said:
Sniper Team 4 said:
My favorite? (Keep in mind I usually say this after I have tried repeatedly with the girl I'm talking to)

"I'm never going to find a girlfriend."
"That's not true. You're nice, kind, you have a good head on your shoulders, you listen. You have lots of redeeming features."
"And yet..."
The girl usually stops talking after that because she'll catch herself on what she's about to say: "You're not my type." And no, that hasn't been from one girl. I get that from nearly every girl I ever ask out just for lunch.
Yeah that fuckin line is evil as it translates into "I like you, but im just gonna make up some nice things about you to sweeten the part where I reject you." Next time I hear that, that ***** has whatever beverage im holding coming her way. Since I don't drink coffee, enjoy the tea *****!
Good lord that's a funny image - thank you good sir for almost making me spit MY tea out my nose!

(Now, I'm not saying I would do the same to a person I felt that way about - but it would be funny to see!)
If women can do it, so can we! Who'se with me?! SO SAY WE ALL!
 

CaptainREBell

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Feb 11, 2009
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I dated a friend, and it did not end well.
Typical story really, very similar to one mentioned in 1st post...went out with someone who was a dickhead, guy friend was there the whole time. Dickhead dumps me, guy friend tries to help me recover. We date for 10 months before we leave for university.
It was the happiest he'd been, but I'd been MISERABLE. He didn't know how to deal with girls, and so insulted me without realising it (ie "heavy" and "very untoned") and never wanted to go on dates. I stuck with him because he was a nice guy, and all our friends loved us together. It lasted too long, and I'd lost my sense of self-worth.
Then I was single! And free! I was an attractive young woman who had a power level over 9000! And after discovering that guys really liked me, I started dating an awesome guy who was lovely and sweet and thought the world of me.
Now I have another guy friend who likes me, but isn't going to make a move until I'm single again. Will it work out? Nope. Not because he's my friend, but because he has no qualities I would want in a boyfriend. Sometimes, when girls say 'I don't want to ruin the friendship', they're covering up a lot more harmful reasons for rejecting a guy.
Girls liking jerks is very much a teenage/young adult phase, but the nice guy will rise again, and kick some gentlemenly butt!
 

barbzilla

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Dec 6, 2010
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conflictofinterests said:
Protip: Most women decide for themselves whether or not you're a viable dating option in the first five minutes of actively observing you. If you don't make your intentions known during that window of time, you are likely going to be relegated to the friend zone.

However, if you were not aware of these first five minutes of observation, you probably have a second chance in the first five minutes of conversation. Use them wisely to communicate your interest and availability. She may not be interested at first, or she may not be interested ever, but afterwards you have to let the idea of "you" as a viable dating option sink in.

In the meantime, do whatever, you know? Your life doesn't revolve around her. You just fucking met!



It is not always true thought that women make that decision in the first 5 minutes. This time frame is for the initial categorization. It is also not fair to imply that women are the only ones who do this. I myself have a 1 day time frame. If I don't find you "dating" material in that first day I slide you over to the friends slot. If you come up to me and profess your love to me and I am not interested I will tell you so. I am not going to stop being friends with you (but I will give you some space while you deal with any emotional issues this causes), and if things change (and they sometimes do) I will let you know.

Now if you are approaching a woman for the first time with the intent to date, then yes you have a small window of time to make your intentions known and have her consider you romantically. After this point you have a bit of time to convince her of why she should date you (I feel I am wording this poorly and I am about to get some more hate) and spend that time building a bit of mystery yet giving her enough information to make a real decision. You have to be yourself if you want the relationship to go anywhere though, otherwise it is a gamble on how your personalities mesh.

Final point being get on with your life, very valid information. Don't stop living your life because you are talking to a woman.
 

barbzilla

He who speaks words from mouth!
Dec 6, 2010
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CaptainREBell said:
I dated a friend, and it did not end well.
Typical story really, very similar to one mentioned in 1st post...went out with someone who was a dickhead, guy friend was there the whole time. Dickhead dumps me, guy friend tries to help me recover. We date for 10 months before we leave for university.
It was the happiest he'd been, but I'd been MISERABLE. He didn't know how to deal with girls, and so insulted me without realising it (ie "heavy" and "very untoned") and never wanted to go on dates. I stuck with him because he was a nice guy, and all our friends loved us together. It lasted too long, and I'd lost my sense of self-worth.
Then I was single! And free! I was an attractive young woman who had a power level over 9000! And after discovering that guys really liked me, I started dating an awesome guy who was lovely and sweet and thought the world of me.
Now I have another guy friend who likes me, but isn't going to make a move until I'm single again. Will it work out? Nope. Not because he's my friend, but because he has no qualities I would want in a boyfriend. Sometimes, when girls say 'I don't want to ruin the friendship', they're covering up a lot more harmful reasons for rejecting a guy.
Girls liking jerks is very much a teenage/young adult phase, but the nice guy will rise again, and kick some gentlemenly butt!
I think that good guys are already kicking some gentlemanly butt as you put it. The issue is some of us need to realize that we have to have more on our table than just being nice. I usually recommend that guys who are inexperienced with women in general start making female friends (and I mean friends, nothing more) until they learn how to talk to women at the very least.
 

conflictofinterests

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barbzilla said:
conflictofinterests said:
Protip: Most women decide for themselves whether or not you're a viable dating option in the first five minutes of actively observing you. If you don't make your intentions known during that window of time, you are likely going to be relegated to the friend zone.

However, if you were not aware of these first five minutes of observation, you probably have a second chance in the first five minutes of conversation. Use them wisely to communicate your interest and availability. She may not be interested at first, or she may not be interested ever, but afterwards you have to let the idea of "you" as a viable dating option sink in.

In the meantime, do whatever, you know? Your life doesn't revolve around her. You just fucking met!



It is not always true thought that women make that decision in the first 5 minutes. This time frame is for the initial categorization. It is also not fair to imply that women are the only ones who do this. I myself have a 1 day time frame. If I don't find you "dating" material in that first day I slide you over to the friends slot. If you come up to me and profess your love to me and I am not interested I will tell you so. I am not going to stop being friends with you (but I will give you some space while you deal with any emotional issues this causes), and if things change (and they sometimes do) I will let you know.

Now if you are approaching a woman for the first time with the intent to date, then yes you have a small window of time to make your intentions known and have her consider you romantically. After this point you have a bit of time to convince her of why she should date you (I feel I am wording this poorly and I am about to get some more hate) and spend that time building a bit of mystery yet giving her enough information to make a real decision. You have to be yourself if you want the relationship to go anywhere though, otherwise it is a gamble on how your personalities mesh.

Final point being get on with your life, very valid information. Don't stop living your life because you are talking to a woman.
What I was saying is that the best time to tell a woman you're interested in her is when you first meet, not after 10 months of demure friendship. Maybe you have up to a day with this particular person, maybe up to a week, but once judgement is passed, it's pretty much final, unless their understanding of themselves changes DRAMATICALLY. And at that point in a relationship, neither of you are any flavor of committed, so being yourself and getting on with your life has NO downside.